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Mod 16 from a returning player Point of view

allsinsallsins Member Posts: 31 Arc User
edited June 2019 in General Discussion (PC)
Ok let me start by saying wen i left the game the last campaign was Underdark, now i don't know if this changes were all in mod 16 or any other mod.
What i like:
The refinement changes...omg finally i'm able to get a weapon to Orange, it was completely impossible for me to refine gear, it took WAY too long, felt like a second job, this was the main reason i left the game, the farm was insane, if i wanted to play a korean mmo i would go and play one.
i think this system right now is perfect.

The companions: They simplified it a lot, and i think honestly its a lot better now, you want a passive from a companion? buy it and equip it, easy, you still have to lvl them up to get the full stats of that passive and im ok with that.

The under mountain campaign was fast and to the point, i didn't have to do daily's for months to complete it, i like it.

Mob Drops: Mobs dropping a lot of refinement gems is awesome.

No lifesteal : I only play warlock, never played anything else, and i was soooo used to lifesteal that at first i was dying in Barovia a LOT, but then i kinda enjoyed it, felt like i was playing dark Souls, play well or die, i like it.

What i don't like:

The new Praying: The alts i had to Run Dungeons for the AD daily are completely useless now ( in terms of AD ) , wen we pray we don't get AD, we get rough AD that we have to run Dungeons to Obtain, i will never run Dungeons on them because they are completely useless there.

The Scaling: This was the worst thing that happened to this game, and every single new player will feel useless in Dungeons ....they will click "Random leveling Dungeon " and feel completely useless.
you want to attract new players? The Scaling in Dungeons was the worst thing you could have done for that, have you ever done a Dungeon without a High item lvl player in there? Just 5 new players with bad gear, its almost impossible...New players don't have bondings, they don't even know what the hell that is...they will die again and again...quit and go play Elder scroll Online.

Remove the Scaling everywhere and the game will be much better.

Oh, another thing...Barbarians with Plate armor? Warlocks healing? What the hell?
Have any of the developers ever read a novel in this universe? The Drizzt books for example...Barbarians don't wear Plate armor, Warlocks don't heal...
Barbarian was the most SLACKER class ever made, just change the name from Great weapon Fighter to Barbarian and call it a day....No, Great Weapon fighter is one thing a Barbarian is another....

So Basically, I really really hate the scaling and i like everything else.

Will they read this? Nop, do i care? Nop, wen i get tired of this Scaling nonsense i will just leave again.
Post edited by allsins on
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Comments

  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    The AD boost from invoking applies to any rAD you acquire while playing. So you have the weekly Red Wizards, Arcane Reservoir, Protecting the Portal, Biggrin's Tomb, Ballad of Baphomet that it will apply to. If you finished Undermountain and are running MEs, it will apply to the rAD you get from the chests you buy from Zok.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • allsinsallsins Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    The AD boost from invoking applies to any rAD you acquire while playing. So you have the weekly Red Wizards, Arcane Reservoir, Protecting the Portal, Biggrin's Tomb, Ballad of Baphomet that it will apply to. If you finished Undermountain and are running MEs, it will apply to the rAD you get from the chests you buy from Zok.

    That's good to know, thank you, still i will not be able to do it, i only play the warlock, my other chars are super low lvl, they only leveled by Doing Dungeons and praying for the AD :)
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    That is what I said about scaling to start with.. it actually hampers new players far more then ever.

    Scaling has made me not renew my vip and stop logging in.. well that and the game is a basic shell of itself and everything seem slow and boring, retrogressing combat to years ago or worst.

    Well I think most of us asked for some sort of nerf to power sharing, nerf steal, power cycling , and multiplicative buffing.

    I dont think any of us here asking for the scaling methodology they imparted.

    But whatever at this point, they pretty much lost me, so I guess its for the poeple who are staying that it matters to.

  • allsinsallsins Member Posts: 31 Arc User

    That is what I said about scaling to start with.. it actually hampers new players far more then ever.

    Scaling has made me not renew my vip and stop logging in.. well that and the game is a basic shell of itself and everything seem slow and boring, retrogressing combat to years ago or worst.

    Well I think most of us asked for some sort of nerf to power sharing, nerf steal, power cycling , and multiplicative buffing.

    I dont think any of us here asking for the scaling methodology they imparted.

    But whatever at this point, they pretty much lost me, so I guess its for the poeple who are staying that it matters to.

    Yep, they scaled the Dungeons expecting everyone to have rank 13+ bondings, well guess what new players don't have them and they have a white companion, the new player experience in Dungeons is just horrible, much worse than having a high lvl powering trough the Dungeon, much, much worse.

    I was that low lvl player at some point, and wen i got in a party with a high lvl i was like " hell yeah, thanks dude", you know why? Because you do the Dungeon once or twice and its enough to see it, wen you do it 20 times, you are praying to be in a party with a high lvl, if you are not, its just boring.

    About the slow gameplay, i noticed that, seems like my skills take forever to come out of cooldown and im left there left clicking, whats up with that?

    I would rather the skills dealt less damage but we could do them more often, right now it does not feel like an action mmo.

  • lunari#8880 lunari Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    Its good to see a returning player point of view on the state of the game. I can only imagine the horror a new player experiences... I've been playing this game for several years straight. I love the heck out of it... before this mod hit. Now I am so discouraged and if it wasn't for the guild/alliance. I would have left long ago too. What in the world were these people thinking? You can tell they DO NOT play the game. Otherwise they would have never went with the scaling idea... Sure I didn't mind the power changes/class changes or companion change etc. Yet the scaling part killed it for me. I used to love to get my tasks done and move onto the next character. Yet now I only play with one and even then I am thinking, "what else can I do?" Many folks I've known or gotten to know has left the game or stopped playing. This is sad... The only reason I loved the game was due to the combat being so darn different and now? Its like... meh... boring.

    Devs, please do something..., Foss please do something to bring the fun factor again. We are not here to work... we are here to have fun! Some of us want to spend money, but the current state of the game is not making it worth the money nor the time to play. Neverwinter is the only good mmo I've ever experienced and would LOVE to stay. I want to hope your upcoming "changes" would make a good impact because otherwise... you guys will lose me. I won't continue to support a broken game. Lets be honest. Its broken!
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    allsins said:


    The new Praying: The alts i had to Run Dungeons for the AD daily are completely useless now ( in terms of AD ) , wen we pray we don't get AD, we get rough AD that we have to run Dungeons to Obtain, i will never run Dungeons on them because they are completely useless there.

    About this, I don't farm AD from dungeons. I normally get a lot of AD from Barovian coins. Look in the campaign stores and you will see the RAD is now exchanged for currency. I focus on Barovia here but all campaign stores have currency to convert to AD;

    Daily Vigil 150 BC/0 Omens
    Corruption 20 BC/5 Omens
    Rituals 20 BC/5 Omens
    Straw Men 20 BC/5 Omens
    Cauldron 20 BC/5 Omens
    Remains 20 BC/5 Omens
    Dishonor 20 BC/5 Omens
    Dire Wolf 20 BC/5 Omens
    Tracking 20 BC/5 Omens
    Dark Heroics Weekly - 100/25
    CoW Weekly - 100/25
    Bone Weekly - 100/25
    Spy Weekly - 100/25
    Lighting Fires Weekly - 100/25

    100 coins + 2 omens = 1K RAD
    20 omens can be used to buy 100 coins.

    I don't know how many alts you run but they can do this assuming they are level 70.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    allsins said:


    What i don't like:

    The new Praying: The alts i had to Run Dungeons for the AD daily are completely useless now ( in terms of AD ) , wen we pray we don't get AD, we get rough AD that we have to run Dungeons to Obtain, i will never run Dungeons on them because they are completely useless there.

    The Scaling: This was the worst thing that happened to this game, and every single new player will feel useless in Dungeons ....they will click "Random leveling Dungeon " and feel completely useless.
    you want to attract new players? The Scaling in Dungeons was the worst thing you could have done for that, have you ever done a Dungeon without a High item lvl player in there? Just 5 new players with bad gear, its almost impossible...New players don't have bondings, they don't even know what the hell that is...they will die again and again...quit and go play Elder scroll Online.

    Remove the Scaling everywhere and the game will be much better.

    Going to try to quickly update you on what happened to RAD and dungeon queues since you last played during UD.

    Each character was able to refine 36K RAD/day. The shortest dungeon/skirmish to run was eToS/eSoT. Everyone ran eToS/eSoT twice a day for 36K+ RAD/day. Then the power creep got high enough that only one or two well geared toon could carry the group through eToS. People made alt-army accounts and sent trashy toons into eTos/eSoT for others to carry them for easy 36K+ RAD per toon per day. This caused a huge influx of AD into the economy.

    Then came Random Queue and characters that had to use for their daily RAD. But this wasn't enough to curb the influx of AD and the RAD model was changed from 36K/toon/day to 100K/account/day.

    With alt-army accounts rendered useless, the more dedicated players moved on to multiple accounts and multi-boxing. Now AFKs started showing up in easier runs. This frustrated many legit players who had to carry the AFKs.

    With AFK running rampant, we now have scaling so runs are not that easy and multi-boxing and botting will be harder.

    Scaling is the right direction for the game. It needs more tuning though. RLQ runs like DL should not feel like end-game runs when the party is mostly new players.
  • allsinsallsins Member Posts: 31 Arc User

    allsins said:


    The new Praying: The alts i had to Run Dungeons for the AD daily are completely useless now ( in terms of AD ) , wen we pray we don't get AD, we get rough AD that we have to run Dungeons to Obtain, i will never run Dungeons on them because they are completely useless there.

    About this, I don't farm AD from dungeons. I normally get a lot of AD from Barovian coins. Look in the campaign stores and you will see the RAD is now exchanged for currency. I focus on Barovia here but all campaign stores have currency to convert to AD;

    Daily Vigil 150 BC/0 Omens
    Corruption 20 BC/5 Omens
    Rituals 20 BC/5 Omens
    Straw Men 20 BC/5 Omens
    Cauldron 20 BC/5 Omens
    Remains 20 BC/5 Omens
    Dishonor 20 BC/5 Omens
    Dire Wolf 20 BC/5 Omens
    Tracking 20 BC/5 Omens
    Dark Heroics Weekly - 100/25
    CoW Weekly - 100/25
    Bone Weekly - 100/25
    Spy Weekly - 100/25
    Lighting Fires Weekly - 100/25

    100 coins + 2 omens = 1K RAD
    20 omens can be used to buy 100 coins.

    I don't know how many alts you run but they can do this assuming they are level 70.
    Oh that's interesting, can you tell me what all those things are? Are they Daily quests or Heroic encounters?

    Thank you

  • allsinsallsins Member Posts: 31 Arc User

    allsins said:


    What i don't like:

    The new Praying: The alts i had to Run Dungeons for the AD daily are completely useless now ( in terms of AD ) , wen we pray we don't get AD, we get rough AD that we have to run Dungeons to Obtain, i will never run Dungeons on them because they are completely useless there.

    The Scaling: This was the worst thing that happened to this game, and every single new player will feel useless in Dungeons ....they will click "Random leveling Dungeon " and feel completely useless.
    you want to attract new players? The Scaling in Dungeons was the worst thing you could have done for that, have you ever done a Dungeon without a High item lvl player in there? Just 5 new players with bad gear, its almost impossible...New players don't have bondings, they don't even know what the hell that is...they will die again and again...quit and go play Elder scroll Online.

    Remove the Scaling everywhere and the game will be much better.

    Going to try to quickly update you on what happened to RAD and dungeon queues since you last played during UD.

    Each character was able to refine 36K RAD/day. The shortest dungeon/skirmish to run was eToS/eSoT. Everyone ran eToS/eSoT twice a day for 36K+ RAD/day. Then the power creep got high enough that only one or two well geared toon could carry the group through eToS. People made alt-army accounts and sent trashy toons into eTos/eSoT for others to carry them for easy 36K+ RAD per toon per day. This caused a huge influx of AD into the economy.

    Then came Random Queue and characters that had to use for their daily RAD. But this wasn't enough to curb the influx of AD and the RAD model was changed from 36K/toon/day to 100K/account/day.

    With alt-army accounts rendered useless, the more dedicated players moved on to multiple accounts and multi-boxing. Now AFKs started showing up in easier runs. This frustrated many legit players who had to carry the AFKs.

    With AFK running rampant, we now have scaling so runs are not that easy and multi-boxing and botting will be harder.

    Scaling is the right direction for the game. It needs more tuning though. RLQ runs like DL should not feel like end-game runs when the party is mostly new players.
    I see, that makes sense, but they scaled things too much, i went into one Dungeon with my lvl 55 paladin before i knew we cant get daily Bonus AD from Dungeons on different chars, that guy has only gear that dropped from the dungeons back then, no bondings because that was almost impossible for me to have back then, they were super expensive, i did nothing...got 2 or shoted by almost everything, you know what i ended up doing? Nothing, just fallowing the Team and let them do everything because i could not help them.

    So the problem is back, players felt frustrated because they had to carry the slakers, now they have to carry anyway because new players are useless in Dungeons....i understand they wanted to fix that, but the Scaling really really hurts new players.
  • caldochaud#4880 caldochaud Member Posts: 213 Arc User
    edited June 2019

    Well I think most of us asked for some sort of nerf to power sharing, nerf steal, power cycling , and multiplicative buffing.

    Seriously? In what twisted and perverse alternate universe are you referring to?

    Speaking for myself, this gamer had absolutely no complaints with the old Neverwinter other than with Mod 15's removal of being able to salvage AD from unwanted gear... I want the old game back.

    I want the Lifesteal! I want Recovery! I want to buff my team mates! HAMSTER!!! If I am expected to put in the time and effort to refine, I want my refined gear and enchantements to be at full power at all times in every location without this scaling HAMSTER stealing from me what I have earned fair and square!
    "Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    to be fair, the power sharing was getting too extreme and the lifesteal as well. I mean, you were either at full health or had been one-shotted. that's just silly.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • cerberusforcescerberusforces Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    I'm not sure if back to the game is a good choice. There is nothing interesting, still fear about bugs. "New class system" was weak for me. GF is disastrous. I dont see a lot of new players. Im done. Try back to the game but it's repulsive for me. The game begins to change into zombie.
     
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    allsins said:


    Oh that's interesting, can you tell me what all those things are? Are they Daily quests or Heroic encounters?

    Thank you

    Once you get passed the start up quests in Barovia, these are all repeatable quests. Most of these can be done on a daily basis and take very little time. Many can be done solo. You should be familar with Well of the Dragons and dragon hoard coins, they exchange at 1K AD for 100 coins also. You can do dragon runs every hour, 45 minutes after the hour the dragons land. It takes 10 mins to complete the run. On average I turn in 100 coins on that alone. If you dig through the campaign menus you are going to find others, who knows what your favorite area will be.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User


    Scaling is the right direction for the game.

    No. Its just the easiest tool to "balance" a game for the dev. There are a lot games outta there with scaling ( for example: GW2) and they can handle this very well.
    In neverwinter no dev was able to fix the broken powersharing and no one was really working on the balancing. So what do you do if you have bad devs and not enough devs? You make the game simple as you can to "balance" things. One of theese things is scaling.
    Dont missunderstand me plz. Im not saying its totaly false...but in NW its not the right direction, bc you got no good devs here. Thats the reason why mod 16 suxx and why i think they never gonna fix it properly.
    All they have done with mod 16 is:
    Make the game as simple as you can for the devs.

    Spidey
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    allsins said:



    No lifesteal : I only play warlock, never played anything else, and i was soooo used to lifesteal that at first i was dying in Barovia a LOT, but then i kinda enjoyed it, felt like i was playing dark Souls, play well or die, i like it.

    What i don't like:

    One simple point I want to make about this statement. If I want to play a game like Dark Souls, I would go play Dark Souls or Blood Borne. I'm playing NWO for its casual and easy play style. I liked how I could go out and complete campaigns and zones without worrying to much about dying or needing health potions to stay alive. I don't mind using potions and what not as needed but if I have to pop potions every time they come off cool down than IMO there are issues around the design of combat.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,458 Arc User
    edited June 2019


    Scaling is the right direction for the game.

    No. Its just the easiest tool to "balance" a game for the dev. There are a lot games outta there with scaling ( for example: GW2) and they can handle this very well.
    In neverwinter no dev was able to fix the broken powersharing and no one was really working on the balancing. So what do you do if you have bad devs and not enough devs? You make the game simple as you can to "balance" things. One of theese things is scaling.
    Dont missunderstand me plz. Im not saying its totaly false...but in NW its not the right direction, bc you got no good devs here. Thats the reason why mod 16 suxx and why i think they never gonna fix it properly.
    All they have done with mod 16 is:
    Make the game as simple as you can for the devs.

    Spidey
    The devs removed power sharing but players are still walking around with over 100K power. Now players get excessive amount of power from gear and forgoing anything that is not a Radiant enchantment for added power.

    Mod 16 removed the buff stacking and debuffs we had but power creep from excessive power is still present.

    Mod 16 actually caused more problems than it solved.

    I hate to break it to you, but 100k power isn't all that much. My 23k HR has 127k power, everything else at or over 64k, and things still take ages to kill. For solo play the game isn't half as fun as it was before this mod.

    As for this mod in general, let me put it a bit differently than most players.

    I've been playing since Mod 2. To this day there are places in the game that are no-go areas for me -- not because I can't handle them, but because the negative memories and feelings are so strong that I simply can't stand the thought of going there. I'm talking about the four Elemental Evil zones, especially Spinward Rise. The only way I'll venture there is if someone in the alliance desperately needs help and there is no one else available. Otherwise, if it comes to, say, leveling an alt, I always buy the campaign buyout and skip the zones entirely.

    I hate going there *that* much. That's what some killer-DM designer's affliction of "vigilance on the brain" did to me.

    I can already see that Undermountain will be the same for me. Every minute I have to spend in Yawning Portal or in that cursed dungeon feels like psychological torture. I loathe the place -- not because of the environment, but because of this entire mod, with all the awful "improvements" that someone somewhere thought we might like. I have 14 alts sitting at level 70, many of whom have finished all of the other campaigns, and I find the thought of spending even one minute dragging them through Undermountain hateful in the extreme.

    I won't do it. Undermountain will become another no-go place for me going forward.
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  • kors#9447 kors Member Posts: 110 Arc User


    Scaling is the right direction for the game.

    No. Its just the easiest tool to "balance" a game for the dev. There are a lot games outta there with scaling ( for example: GW2) and they can handle this very well.
    In neverwinter no dev was able to fix the broken powersharing and no one was really working on the balancing. So what do you do if you have bad devs and not enough devs? You make the game simple as you can to "balance" things. One of theese things is scaling.
    Dont missunderstand me plz. Im not saying its totaly false...but in NW its not the right direction, bc you got no good devs here. Thats the reason why mod 16 suxx and why i think they never gonna fix it properly.
    All they have done with mod 16 is:
    Make the game as simple as you can for the devs.

    Spidey
    The devs removed power sharing but players are still walking around with over 100K power. Now players get excessive amount of power from gear and forgoing anything that is not a Radiant enchantment for added power.

    Mod 16 removed the buff stacking and debuffs we had but power creep from excessive power is still present.

    Mod 16 actually caused more problems than it solved.

    Do you know that without Power you can't do anything? As a Healer, if you want to heal you need Power. As a DPS, if you want to do damage you need Power. As a tank if you want to hold the aggro you need Power (make damage put you at the top of the threat list). What else? Devs made Power so important, they only shift the problem from buffs to Power. I think they did these things to make money only, without any other reason.
    Scaling has no sense at all.

    If you would nerf Recovery and Lifesteal I agree, nerf them. Don't cancel them. I make you an example: with a hit with 50k damage you could heal yourselft about 1kk hp. This was to strong. But it doesn't mean you should cancel it. Decrease its power, make something like "you have a possibility to get healing as half of the damage dealt".
    But now nothing doesn't care, because they made every choise without got any suggestion from the players community.
    I think a game is good and stay good only if who write the code follow the feedback and the suggestions of the people who play the game. Stop.
    At the moment, Neverwinter is not like that.
  • mifiisumifiisu Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    Tbh, I feel Cryptic should focus far more on promoting the CURRENT game to new players and really work on identifying a clear target group.
    The game is just too old by now and has changed too much for the forums to give any sense of a unitary player base. People who started at different MODs (or pre MOD1) miss different things about the game and have a completely different idea of what the game should be like (i really don't blame Cryptic for finding it difficult to filter out any meaningful feedback because it is increasingly difficult to separate temper tantrums from constructive feedback even if it tends to get emotional).
    I'd hope that the more players take up this game, the more incentive Cryptic would also have to divert more resources to the game to put out more content with different tiers of difficulty.
  • urlord283urlord283 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,084 Arc User
    I believe this was/is the best Mod yet.

    That said I would like more LVL80 areas
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User
    I thought 180K was BiS power.

    If you ask me, they nerfed buffs and then made it so you have to use Zen to get BiS (read R15s and legendary insignia). Change mount bonuses etc. Cheap & obvious cash grab.

    then they lobotomised the game to make it easier for them

    imo this is the worst Mod by a long way

    at the moment I am hating this game, it is only the years of character development that is keeping me here, and it is only by a thread. gameplay sux
  • dennizonndennizonn Member Posts: 21 Arc User

    Going to try to quickly update you on what happened to RAD and dungeon queues since you last played during UD.

    Each character was able to refine 36K RAD/day. The shortest dungeon/skirmish to run was eToS/eSoT. Everyone ran eToS/eSoT twice a day for 36K+ RAD/day. Then the power creep got high enough that only one or two well geared toon could carry the group through eToS. People made alt-army accounts and sent trashy toons into eTos/eSoT for others to carry them for easy 36K+ RAD per toon per day. This caused a huge influx of AD into the economy.

    Then came Random Queue and characters that had to use for their daily RAD. But this wasn't enough to curb the influx of AD and the RAD model was changed from 36K/toon/day to 100K/account/day.

    With alt-army accounts rendered useless, the more dedicated players moved on to multiple accounts and multi-boxing. Now AFKs started showing up in easier runs. This frustrated many legit players who had to carry the AFKs.

    With AFK running rampant, we now have scaling so runs are not that easy and multi-boxing and botting will be harder.

    Scaling is the right direction for the game. It needs more tuning though. RLQ runs like DL should not feel like end-game runs when the party is mostly new players.

    This is an interesting read. I too returned to the game after a long time away about 2 months ago, and did not know this history. The reason I quit the game multiple times in years past was because it took me too long to kill things. I am not the type of player that calculates caps and precise builds, rather, I simply upgrade my characters in a very general way. When I played DAoC I always refused to make a template as well, because I found it tedious, not because I didn't see the benefit in it; the only template I ever had was on a set of armor that was nearly decayed to the point of destruction, after a couple of more repairs, from a guildmate who had crafted himself a new armor set to replace it LOL.

    When I came back to the game this time, it was pre-MOD 16, and I dumped a bunch of money into the game to get a single character to where I could kill quickly and survive decently. MOD16 released and I had to dump even more money into this single character in order to deal with scaling. Next, I started to get bored with that one character (I am an alt-aholic), and I wanted a tank (since they seemed important with scaling), so I proceeded to dump even more money and time into a second character. Hundreds of dollars later, I am not building up anymore characters. I find both of my characters acceptable for everything accept high tier dungeons, and frankly cannot justify wasting anymore money than I have at this point. Even after spending this money, both of my toons are not at peak performance but I can at least enjoy them as a semi-casual player.

    When evaluating this experience, and the information you gave, I am reminded of virtually every MMO and PVP game I have ever played, and the struggle devs engage in to combat human innovation to find loopholes, exploit, or simply capitalize on systems that are in place. In almost every game I can think of, devs have failed in this regard. I do not believe they always fail due to incompetence or a lack of understanding, but because they are engaged in a futile battle as I see it. One has to understand that you will really never have a foolproof system that cannot be exploited or taken advantage of, while at the same time have a system that offers a variety of skills, classes, and options. The problem is the playerbase doesn't want a homogeneous system. Based upon my experience of several decades of gaming, players want variety, they want to stand out, they want to create something of a unique playstyle they can master that is unique to them, and they want to feel some power creep, advantage, and progression based on the time to put into the game. Furthermore, they want to rest assured that their investment is protected (particularly when it involves real life currency and not just time invested into the game to earn pixelated currencies). MOD16 effectively violated all of the aforementioned "wants/needs" of the playerbase. Time, money, variety, options, and an overall sense of accomplishment and progression were all degraded or destroyed for what appears to be a majority of the playerbase.

    But let me qualify all of this by saying that I am empathetic to the dev's struggles as well. From their point of view, things have to be manipulated to maintain the integrity of the game on several levels. Furthermore, the tendancies of a playerbase is always overwhelmingly negative. Take the latest patch as an example. The devs really did a good job of addressing a huge variety of problems brought on by MOD16 in response to the playerbase's complaints. Still, in the patch notes thread, there were several respondents who couldn't even acknowledge this and still promoted the thing THEY felt wasn't adequate, or didn't make this round, or they simply said that they weren't really thankful for progress because the issues were self-inflicted by the devs and shouldn't even exist. When I praised the good that they did, one mental midget flagged my post with a LOL and no comment. Someone says, well that just goes to show how mad they made us, and I get that, but let's try not to be so emotional that we miss the point here. The point is, you must encourage the behavior and trends that you support, just as ardently as you discourage the changes and trends you hate. This is important, because relationships matter, including those the consumer has with the provider of goods.

    So what is the answer to this conundrum? There are many answers, and none are perfect. But, I think communication and mutual respect is where it all has to start. Devs must listen to their playerbase, and the playerbase must respect that this is the Dev's game. Standing upon that ground, open discussion should guide the changes that will ultimately take place. Scaling may well have been "necessary," but it was rolled out broken, too early, and in a way that violated what the consumer wanted. Good business should never do this. Conversely, the playerbase should be able to accept that the Devs are simply reacting to something the playerbase was doing that, while unintended perhaps, was detrimental to the overall health of the game. Something had to be done, just not necessary what WAS done or HOW it was done.

    My final point, is that you cannot change people devs. People will always find a way to play your game that exceeds your expectations in both positive and negative ways. My humble advice is to strive to not be reactionary in your responses, and only offer careful, measured, meaningful, high-quality responses when you do react. Do not attempt to eradicate a disease by tossing the whole body into a fire, so to speak. Sometimes it is better to let some less than optimal situations simply continue to exist for the good of the whole community. And when you are going to make changes, attempt to make changes that ADD solutions rather than taking things away as you did with the skilltrees and combat timers. I don't claim to have all the answers, and I know things are oversimplified in my post regarding certain issues, but I am simply concerned enough, about a game I like enough, that I feel compelled to say these things. Right now, despite your intentions, the community believes you don't respect their opinions, time, or money; whether this is true or not, perception is reality. Let's learn from this unfortunate MOD and go forward in good faith, determined to not repeat the same mistakes (new ones are okay), and to release quality as a standard. In exchange, the community should be understanding, supportive, and strive to voice complaints without being destructive.
  • dawndilion#7316 dawndilion Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    I've been playing a healing warlock since mod 9 on console (PS4). It's been a thing for quite some time now. Mod 13 gave SW more buff capabilities and healing became more of a happy little side effect but SW heals aren't new at all.
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    mention about plate armor for barbarians, i know it seem wrong, for heavy armor set are for "Weapon Master" class. to play barbarians they use scales or tougher leather hides.
    dont understand why devs use "barbarians" as class, those are "Tribal" warrior race, not a class.
    it has Barbarian priest, it has barbarian warrior, it has barbarian chief, and it has barbarian maidens. viking barbarians has Shieldmaidens, Spearbrothers, Warchief, and Prophet Seer. those i listed are class.

    barbarians are very wide range of tribal warrior race made up of several tribes. Conan is a barbarian, and he can be "freebooter", "Upsurper", "Buccaneer". "wanderer", and "conqueror".
    some barbarian can be rouge, thief, assassin, or brawler, they can even sings as bards/skalds.
  • fenris0187fenris0187 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    > @wylonus said:
    > mention about plate armor for barbarians, i know it seem wrong, for heavy armor set are for "Weapon Master" class. to play barbarians they use scales or tougher leather hides.
    > dont understand why devs use "barbarians" as class, those are "Tribal" warrior race, not a class.
    > it has Barbarian priest, it has barbarian warrior, it has barbarian chief, and it has barbarian maidens. viking barbarians has Shieldmaidens, Spearbrothers, Warchief, and Prophet Seer. those i listed are class.
    >
    > barbarians are very wide range of tribal warrior race made up of several tribes. Conan is a barbarian, and he can be "freebooter", "Upsurper", "Buccaneer". "wanderer", and "conqueror".
    > some barbarian can be rouge, thief, assassin, or brawler, they can even sings as bards/skalds.

    While I agree against the platemail, in the "DnD universe" in 5e, a barbarian is a class as well as a social group of tribal peoples.
  • pwimagicgamepwimagicgame Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    I hate scaling on any game. GW2, ESO or here, just such a cheap and tacky way to avoid doing work.

    I realize these games are not 'realistic', but they should try to hold together on some level of physics. As a newbie I can defeat the evil wasps in two seconds with my 'newbie stick'. I come back 80 levels later and my 'Arch-lords wand of galactic power' takes five minutes to kill a wasp? Get lost.

    STUPID.
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