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What is the reason for waiting for a disconnected player?

robai#6206 robai Posts: 227Member Arc User
edited May 25 in Player Feedback (PC)
For example, we had to wait in Folly for 5 mins until we were able to kick a disconnected player.
Everyone in the party tried to kick and saw this:



The question is WHY?
Who can possibly have a benefit from this rule?
A disconnected player has no benefit if party is waiting for him at all since he can join another random queue at any time.
I mean what's the logic here? What was a game designer (or a developer) was thinking of?

Moreover:
- a disconnected player should be automatically replaced with a new random player if he was disconnected for more than 1 min and he was disconnected for more time than he was in a dungeon.

More precisely, in random dungeons/skirmishes:
1) if a disconnected player has never entered a dungeon he should be autoreplaced after 1 min (or even 20 secs)
2) if a player has spend longer time (for example, 4 mins) in a dungeon and he was offline for more than 4 mins then he should be autoreplaced too.
3) anyone should be able to start vote kicking any player (disconnected or not) at ANY time (if 80% of players want to remove a player then there is a reason for that, why not allow it?)

Comments

  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,814Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    A grace period for someone having a connection issue.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • robai#6206 robai Posts: 227Member Arc User
    greywynd said:

    A grace period for someone having a connection issue.

    So, if one player has connection issues then the rest of the party (4 players) must suffer from it?
    Keep in mind that the disconnected player don't need it, he can join other party anytime he has connection up (possibly making yet another 4 players to waste 5 mins).
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,888Member Arc User
    No, a disconnected player cannot just join another group. He has to wait in the queue again. Could be a long wait for DPS toons.
  • robai#6206 robai Posts: 227Member Arc User

    No, a disconnected player cannot just join another group. He has to wait in the queue again. Could be a long wait for DPS toons.

    Joining Intermediate or Leveling queue usually takes less than 1 min to join.
    You probably mean Advanced/Expert queues.

    Any any case, why this would be bad?


    More precisely, in random dungeons/skirmishes:
    1) if a disconnected player has never entered a dungeon he should be autoreplaced after 1 min (or even 20 secs)
    2) if a player has spend longer time (for example, 4 mins) in a dungeon and he was offline for more than 4 mins then he should be autoreplaced too.
    3) anyone should be able to start vote kicking any player (disconnected or not) at ANY time (if 80% of players want to remove a player then there is a reason for that, why not allow it?)

    4) Also the system should never wait for gathering party when there is just a disconnected player missing (the party should be able to continue with a disconnected player).
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,888Member Arc User

    No, a disconnected player cannot just join another group. He has to wait in the queue again. Could be a long wait for DPS toons.

    Joining Intermediate or Leveling queue usually takes less than 1 min to join.
    You probably mean Advanced/Expert queues.

    Any any case, why this would be bad?
    Does not matter RLQ, RIQ, RAQ, REQ, whatever. They all should behave the same way. Special case code having RLQ/RIQ behave differently from RAQ/REQ causes confusion, not to mention extra coding and testing work.


    4) Also the system should never wait for gathering party when there is just a disconnected player missing (the party should be able to continue with a disconnected player).

    Lots of people run pre-made groups. I am sure if a party member disconnected, they want that same person to come back. Waiting for the disconnected player is the right thing to do even though it may inconvenience you.

    It would be nice if the group can go past gates and be able to proceed even if there is a disconnected player. Though I think this can be tricky to implement because you only want this for certain gates like ToDG. For boss fights, players get only one chance to enter. To avoid making things unnecessarily complicated, waiting for the disconnected player is the right thing to do.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,338Member Arc User

    greywynd said:

    A grace period for someone having a connection issue.

    So, if one player has connection issues then the rest of the party (4 players) must suffer from it?
    Keep in mind that the disconnected player don't need it, he can join other party anytime he has connection up (possibly making yet another 4 players to waste 5 mins).
    nope. Sometimes disconnected players get the penalty.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    Because if you cannot manage the courtesy to wait 5 minutes for someone with a legit reason to be absent, that says more about you than the game.

    Which is why the wait is there, because people cannot wait 5 minutes.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 1,055Member Arc User
    edited May 29
    Im more concern over the dinosaur than people that disconnected in merchant folly. Why cant they just make the dinosaur runaway or have it flung out of the map by a giant gorilla after the dungeon ended? Sometimes its so hard to leave the map when u are left alone by other player. I hope this isn't a ploy for Cryptic to sell their VIP.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,338Member Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    Im more concern over the dinosaur than people that disconnected in merchant folly. Why cant they just make the dinosaur runaway or have it flung out of the map by a giant gorilla after the dungeon ended? Sometimes its so hard to leave the map when u are left alone by other player. I hope this isn't a ploy for Cryptic to sell their VIP.

    If you lure the dinosaur down the steps into the outer courtyard, you can usually collect the chest & make it to the portal before his tiny little lizard brain figures out how stairs work. \
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Posts: 95Member Arc User
    dionchi said:

    Some players become disconnected in the middle of a quest, occasionally even at the end and as mentioned sometimes through no fault of their own.

    It often happens that I am disconnected (by Cryptic, internet connection to other servers still up and running) in the middle of a run, or even towards the end. Sometimes the game crashes. In both cases I can usually get into the run within 1-2 min (if the connection were up immediately, it would take less than 30 sec with my machine, but even after a blue screen I often find myself waiting for the login server to respond for 1+ min)

    So in my case most disconnects are entirely due to Cryptic, and I would not like to be punished for Cryptic's failures.

    Sometimes I even get disconnected shortly before a long dungeon run ends, which means that the other players completed the run before I could log in again. In this case I am auto-kicked from the dungeon and my entire effort is wasted. I neither get the completion rewards of the queue, nor can I loot the chest. This really s u c k s.

    It is important that disconnected players (in the majority of cases disconnected by Cryptic's bad coding) can get into the dungeon run that they were actually doing when the disconnect or crash hit them, without being auto-removed. In fact, due to the multiple disconnects I experienced shortly before the run completed, I wish they would solve the problem if server disconnects completely. At least they should modify the code for disconnects that happen 1-2 min prior to completion, so that a player that was disconnected (because the servers cannot handle the load or the game crashed) can get back in time into the completed instance, in order to reap the rewards of his (15-40 min) effort.

  • dionchidionchi Posts: 714Member Arc User
    Once again I'd like to reiterate that I personally disapprove of most occasions where players have the vote to kick option for instances of anyone being disconnected.

    I think the game should have a absence timer programmed into the game and at the terminus of that programmed interval an absent player is automatically removed (which it does) AND a new (replacement) player is automatically invited to the existing party. In instances where a player intentionally abandons an instance by any method able to be identified by the game a player clicking on “Leave Party”, “Abandon Instance” or using “VIP Sign Post” or relocate “Scroll”, the in game programmed removal and replacement should be immediate.

    It is also my opinion that any player who leaves an instance during a configured party run by any method for any reason, even by reasons beyond their control, and is disconnected for more than the currently programmed 5-minutes grace period, should receive the “Leaver Penalty”, period… as harsh and unfortunate as that sounds, there are a few players who are not above attempting to scam the game and other players by attempting to leave a contest they ‘simply don’t like’ by a method that could possibly avoid the intentional Leaver Penalty.

    I'd also like to see the known methods players have been and continue to use to attempt to leave a party queue without incurring a Leaver Penalty either disabled during those runs, if at all possible, or players who intentionally use those known methods automatically receive the penalty they attempted to scam... some (most) are initiated by button clicks after all.


    Again, just my 2¢
    DD~
  • robai#6206 robai Posts: 227Member Arc User
    edited May 29
    I still l don't see a reason why the whole party has to wait for 5 min for a disconnected player.
    Gather whole party mechanics should ignore offline players. How hard it is to check if all absent party players are there?
    At least give us some vote to force starting the fight even in not everyone is there yet.

    Also why there is a timer for kicking? If all 4 players agree to kick then what's the problem? If you came with a friend then your friend will vote no and the player won't be kicked.
    When I lose connection I don't mind to be kicked at all, it's easy to join another random group (I never had any problems).
    It's also easy to do different rules for Advanced/Expert and lower lvl queues in case it matters ('if' statement in programming is one of the simplest thing).

    Actually I'm very surprised that on forums people disagree with the suggestions for kicking player. In actual groups EVERYONE complains about that, in chat a lot of people swear during those 5 mins (it's a very long time when you have to do nothing the whole time).
  • juan#5043 juan Posts: 39Member Arc User
    There is a big difference between who gets disconnected from the beginning, and who disconnects after having spent their time and, often, their scrolls, at the end of a dungeon ... They should not pay for sinners
  • robai#6206 robai Posts: 227Member Arc User
    edited May 29
    juan#5043 said:

    There is a big difference between who gets disconnected from the beginning, and who disconnects after having spent their time and, often, their scrolls, at the end of a dungeon ... They should not pay for sinners

    Yup, that's why:
    2) if a player has spend longer time (for example, 4 mins) in a dungeon and he was offline for more than 4 mins then he should be autoreplaced too.

    It means: the longer time you've spent in a dungeon the longer the time you have to come back until you are autoreplaced.

    For kicking: if you did bad behavior you should be kicked anytime (offline or online doesn't matter here)

    But currently we have this: if you lose connection then other players waste 20 mins because of you (4 members waste 5 mins, so total 20 mins wasted, but usually it's more than 20 mins, because you don't see when you can kick), this can't be a good design.
  • h3llbentwisph3llbentwisp Posts: 31Member Arc User
    I have run into the issue several times where I'm disconnected during a run (literally my character is moving or fighting) , or proceeding through a gate in the dungeon. Where I get the "you have been disconnected for being idle". I feel bad that the party had to wait on me or proceed with fighting with out me there to help, but it's not my fault Cryptic doesn't get the definition of "idle". It's never taken me 5 minutes to get back in so there has never been the issue of being kicked.

    Plenty of times I have run dungeons where people have been dc'd. Waiting has never been a problem for me. I know either their net blinked or cryptic crashed on them and it wasn't their fault. Even in the case of someone being offline longer than 5 minutes and auto removed. I've always had the consideration to realize real life things happen. Emergencies, power outages or what not. Those people don't have the time to apologize they just have poof to take care of Life. I would hope for the same consideration from others if that were my case.

    If you lure the dinosaur down the steps into the outer courtyard, you can usually collect the chest & make it to the portal before his tiny little lizard brain figures out how stairs work. \

    "tiny lizard brain" lol Awesome!
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 714Member Arc User
    edited May 30

    I still l don't see a reason why the whole party has to wait for 5 min for a disconnected player.
    Gather whole party mechanics should ignore offline players. How hard it is to check if all absent party players are there?
    At least give us some vote to force starting the fight even in not everyone is there yet.

    Also why there is a timer for kicking? If all 4 players agree to kick then what's the problem? If you came with a friend then your friend will vote no and the player won't be kicked.
    When I lose connection I don't mind to be kicked at all, it's easy to join another random group (I never had any problems).
    It's also easy to do different rules for Advanced/Expert and lower lvl queues in case it matters ('if' statement in programming is one of the simplest thing).

    Actually I'm very surprised that on forums people disagree with the suggestions for kicking player. In actual groups EVERYONE complains about that, in chat a lot of people swear during those 5 mins (it's a very long time when you have to do nothing the whole time).

    As to why players should wait a few minutes to see if a disconnected player is able to reconnect or why there is a vote to kick cool-down timer in the first place, as @obsidiancran3 already mentioned, let's just call it common "courtesy"...

    We have your stated opinion that when you loose connection you "don't mind" being kicked...

    Well I'd like to offer my opinion that if I'm accidentally disconnected half way through a run and I'm kicked before I'm able to reconnect and well within the 5 minute cool-down period, I think that sucks.

    I believe the reason we currently have the 5 minute cool-down vote to kick timer is because too many players were being kicked from instances for things like temporary disconnects or simply not running the instance in a manner some players thought they should in essence the kick vote was being abused and the introduction of the 5-minute vote to kick timer was implemented in an attempt to negate or decrease that abuse and for the very reason you yourself have already identified...

    A player can queue with a friend or two and control the instance by having a majority if a player in that group wanted to kick someone out of the party - for what ever reason - they could do so and have done so in the past necessitating the vote to kick cool-down timer in the first place.

    In my experience, rarely does a party have to wait the full 5-minutes for an accidentally disconnected player to reconnect. Usually in my experience players who intentionally try to scam the game and the other party members in an attempt to avoid the Leaver Penalty are the one's who disconnect and remain disconnected for the full 5.

    So perhaps a better question would be why do some players lack the courtesy and decency to either play out the instance if they are able (even if they don't like it) or just leave and take the Penalty so a replacement can be immediately summoned and the party doesn't have to wait until the cool-down vote to kick timer expires?

    - snip - I've always had the consideration to realize real life things happen. Emergencies, power outages or what not. Those people don't have the time to apologize they just have poof to take care of Life. I would hope for the same consideration from others if that were my case.

    Real Life happens and consideration goes both ways...

    If something causes a player to leave the game or keyboard and they don't know if they will be able get back in a timely manner, perhaps the courteous thing to do would be to leave the party and accept the Leaver Penalty - NOT simply disconnect in an attempt to avoid the Leaver Penalty and possibly placing the remaining party members in a hardship.

    Just a thought.
    DD~
  • finmakinfinmakin Posts: 237Member Arc User
    edited May 30
    Kicking players in such a short time after a disconnection is not only a elitist behave but egoistic also.
    I have seen this nasty behave regurally and mostly as soon someone gets a disconnection…
    I have the impression that this behave comes mostly from young players who have the impression that the world will end soon and every minute is precious for them..

    What difference does it make to wait a couple of minutes ?.
    Like dionchi said "So perhaps a better question would be why do some players lack the courtesy and decency to either play out the instance if they are able (even if they don't like it) or just leave and take the Penalty so a replacement can be immediately summoned and the party doesn't have to wait until the cool-down vote to kick timer expires?"

    Exactly
    Ogguk Sanctus… Oathbound Paladin
    670k HP (and rising)

    Member of NWLC Alpha
  • bigman99#8273 bigman99 Posts: 153Member Arc User
    Please also remember that you might get someone who is significantly worse than the person you are kicking.
    I got d'ced the other day by My ISP( lets call them Komcast) during a MSP RAQ run. It took me all of 3 minutes to get back on, but the group had kicked me. I ended up running another RAQ and CN + Dread forge in the time it took them to complete the original dungeon. I laughed quite hard at that.
  • revenantptrevenantpt Posts: 54Member Arc User
    edited May 30

    For example, we had to wait in Folly for 5 mins until we were able to kick a disconnected player.
    Everyone in the party tried to kick and saw this:



    The question is WHY?
    Who can possibly have a benefit from this rule?
    A disconnected player has no benefit if party is waiting for him at all since he can join another random queue at any time.
    I mean what's the logic here? What was a game designer (or a developer) was thinking of?

    Moreover:
    - a disconnected player should be automatically replaced with a new random player if he was disconnected for more than 1 min and he was disconnected for more time than he was in a dungeon.

    More precisely, in random dungeons/skirmishes:
    1) if a disconnected player has never entered a dungeon he should be autoreplaced after 1 min (or even 20 secs)
    2) if a player has spend longer time (for example, 4 mins) in a dungeon and he was offline for more than 4 mins then he should be autoreplaced too.
    3) anyone should be able to start vote kicking any player (disconnected or not) at ANY time (if 80% of players want to remove a player then there is a reason for that, why not allow it?)

    Ah how i miss the good old days when you could kick someone whenever you wanted, but the wait was implemented because end gamers were kicking low item lvl players out of ... well everything (this was before random and private q's)

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