test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Honest negative feedback about m16. Without raging or trolling.

2»

Comments

  • dolreydolrey Posts: 605Member Arc User
    edited May 21
    @drumon88
    drumon88 said:

    2.1. Scaling was NOT needed, in any aspect of the game.

    What if I can have 100k dps (just for example) at my 80lvl character. New player at lvl 20 has 150dps. And another new player my friend has 10k dps at lvl 80.

    1) Let's explain that we can add different dungeons for each of these players depending on their stats. It is normal for many mmos (also oftenly they are very "old school" mmos).
    2) With every new module/addition in all mmos which use this system "top" and interesting dungeons become easy and boring because players gain better equipment and better stats. And only one new dungeon can be challenging and interesting for experienced players.

    *This happened and with NWO in mod 5. Experiensed players remember this well. All dungeons were even more trivial than now because of this. Needless to say how disappointed were everybody because of this.*

    3) In almoust all other mmos dungeons play relatively low role. And main attention is focused on grind of unbelievable expensive equipment (donating tons of real money oftenly) and dominating everyone using it in open world PvP or GvG.
    4) In NWO we have only dungeons. So this system really can work. I agree with you. But not in NWO where we have no PvP. We don't want to have only one dungeon interesting for experienced players. We don't want to go back to mod 5.
    5) This is why scaling was added. To let to me with 100k dps, my friend with 10k dps and beginer with 150 dps enjoy more content together.

    Of cource I agree with you that scaling does not work right and does not let us to do this now because different formulas are broken. But when they will be finally fixed every one will be able to enjoy ALL dungeons/skirmishes in the game. There are about 20-30 different dungeons/skirmishes with unique mechanics and all of them will be playable and interesting instead of only 1.

    That is what scaling supposed to do in neverwinter. But currently now it does not. Sad :(

  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,378Member Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    There are still a LOT of bugs that need to be fixed, ASAP. :( Once they fix as many of those as possible, then they need to take another look at the scaling and do SOMETHING with it because it's not fun in it's current state.

    I agree, but think it's the other way round.
    Scaling needs fixing before tweaks. Otherwise if they DO bother to mend scaling they'll probably find that under whatever new scaling model they use, classes will need another pass at balancing.

    But back to the original point, I agree that everything that was done on Mod 16 was done with the best intention of making the game better.
    I think that had they done what seems to happen with STO, and maybe brainstormed some of the ideas first, like "OK Guys... what does everyone think... do we need to raise the level cap?" they would have given people reason to think about it, and maybe realise in advance that by doing something as innocent sounding as raising the level cap, you either create an archive of obsolete content OR require the majority of the game to fall under a new (draconian) scaling model...

    (If we were still living in a L70 world... scaling wouldn't ever have been this bad.)

    Maybe next time eh?
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 714Member Arc User
    edited May 21
    leonidrex said:

    REWARDS:

    Would it destroy the economy if there was a small chance to find a lockbox key in an end dungeon chest?

    1% leveling dungeon/skirmishes, or an ME with 2 runes.
    2% intermediate dungeon/skirmishes, or an ME with 3 runes.
    3% advanced dungeons
    4% expert dungeons

    To prevent exploitation: Limit (1) Key per day from chests. Also, limit the RNG to only count the first 5 dungeons run by an account per day. After 5 dungeons, there would be a 0% chance to get a lockbox key. So, the maximum reward chance is if a player runs 5x LoMM dungeons per day. This would give a 20% chance to receive a lockbox key bonus reward.

    they make good % of their money from keys, wouldnt be suprised if that was most of their income. as a company they have no incentive to do that. something else has to be done to make loot worthwile.
    My thought on the general player population being able to - Very Rarely - find a Lockbox Key in normal game content is if a player who got a key opened a Lockbox and found something really good, like a coalescent ward for instance it could very well incentivize them to purchase keys or even VIP for the prospect of being able to get more good things.

    Just as there are awarded VIP tokens that give player VIP level awards do not advance a player's VIP level - the freebie Lockbox keys could be programmed to only give a limited range of awards, for instance no Tarmalune Trade Bars, all items from those Lockboxs opened with those special keys being BtC (bound to character), whatever...

    Sometimes people are more interested in buying something new - if they are able to get a little sample before they buy.

    The Shimmering Lockbox would have been a good incentive opportunity, but the rewards from the Shimmering Lockbox were so bad in my opinion that it did the exact opposite... people got what I felt to be mostly worthless items from the Shimmering Lockbox so (for me at least) there was no incentive to spend money on lockbox keys because from the example of the Shimmering Lockbox I could open it to find more mostly worthless items like the things from the Shimmering Lockbox.

    kreatyve said:

    There are still a LOT of bugs that need to be fixed, ASAP. :( Once they fix as many of those as possible, then they need to take another look at the scaling and do SOMETHING with it because it's not fun in it's current state.

    I agree, but think it's the other way round.
    Scaling needs fixing before tweaks. Otherwise if they DO bother to mend scaling they'll probably find that under whatever new scaling model they use, classes will need another pass at balancing.

    But back to the original point, I agree that everything that was done on Mod 16 was done with the best intention of making the game better.

    I think that had they done what seems to happen with STO, and maybe brainstormed some of the ideas first, like "OK Guys... what does everyone think... do we need to raise the level cap?" they would have given people reason to think about it, and maybe realise in advance that by doing something as innocent sounding as raising the level cap, you either create an archive of obsolete content OR require the majority of the game to fall under a new (draconian) scaling model...

    (If we were still living in a L70 world... scaling wouldn't ever have been this bad.)

    Maybe next time eh?
    Fix scaling problems first or other game play problems first... Damned if you do - Damned if you don't, the proverbial "rock and a hard space"... If both aren't dealt with or at least perceived as being dealt with in a timely manner there is going to be at least one segment of the player population disgruntled, complaining and who may just decide to give up on the game.

    Yes, I think it is important for the Neverwinter PTB's to deal with known problems as quickly as possible - but just as important, perhaps I think more important, is for the PTB's to let players know they are aware of identified problems and are attempting to deal with them as expediently as possible - "please have patience". Knowing Neverwinter programmers are aware of specific problems and will be dealing with them would go a long way to placating the masses and keeping the existing and possibly new player base as opposed to players not knowing whether the programmers are even aware of any problems or whether anyone has any plans to address perceived problems.

    My 2¢
    DD~
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 394Member Arc User
    dionchi said:

    leonidrex said:

    REWARDS:

    Would it destroy the economy if there was a small chance to find a lockbox key in an end dungeon chest?

    1% leveling dungeon/skirmishes, or an ME with 2 runes.
    2% intermediate dungeon/skirmishes, or an ME with 3 runes.
    3% advanced dungeons
    4% expert dungeons

    To prevent exploitation: Limit (1) Key per day from chests. Also, limit the RNG to only count the first 5 dungeons run by an account per day. After 5 dungeons, there would be a 0% chance to get a lockbox key. So, the maximum reward chance is if a player runs 5x LoMM dungeons per day. This would give a 20% chance to receive a lockbox key bonus reward.

    they make good % of their money from keys, wouldnt be suprised if that was most of their income. as a company they have no incentive to do that. something else has to be done to make loot worthwile.
    My thought on the general player population being able to - Very Rarely - find a Lockbox Key in normal game content is if a player who got a key opened a Lockbox and found something really good, like a coalescent ward for instance it could very well incentivize them to purchase keys or even VIP for the prospect of being able to get more good things.

    Just as there are awarded VIP tokens that give player VIP level awards do not advance a player's VIP level - the freebie Lockbox keys could be programmed to only give a limited range of awards, for instance no Tarmalune Trade Bars, all items from those Lockboxs opened with those special keys being BtC (bound to character), whatever...

    Sometimes people are more interested in buying something new - if they are able to get a little sample before they buy.

    The Shimmering Lockbox would have been a good incentive opportunity, but the rewards from the Shimmering Lockbox were so bad in my opinion that it did the exact opposite... people got what I felt to be mostly worthless items from the Shimmering Lockbox so (for me at least) there was no incentive to spend money on lockbox keys because from the example of the Shimmering Lockbox I could open it to find more mostly worthless items like the things from the Shimmering Lockbox.

    kreatyve said:

    There are still a LOT of bugs that need to be fixed, ASAP. :( Once they fix as many of those as possible, then they need to take another look at the scaling and do SOMETHING with it because it's not fun in it's current state.

    I agree, but think it's the other way round.
    Scaling needs fixing before tweaks. Otherwise if they DO bother to mend scaling they'll probably find that under whatever new scaling model they use, classes will need another pass at balancing.

    But back to the original point, I agree that everything that was done on Mod 16 was done with the best intention of making the game better.

    I think that had they done what seems to happen with STO, and maybe brainstormed some of the ideas first, like "OK Guys... what does everyone think... do we need to raise the level cap?" they would have given people reason to think about it, and maybe realise in advance that by doing something as innocent sounding as raising the level cap, you either create an archive of obsolete content OR require the majority of the game to fall under a new (draconian) scaling model...

    (If we were still living in a L70 world... scaling wouldn't ever have been this bad.)

    Maybe next time eh?
    Fix scaling problems first or other game play problems first... Damned if you do - Damned if you don't, the proverbial "rock and a hard space"... If both aren't dealt with or at least perceived as being dealt with in a timely manner there is going to be at least one segment of the player population disgruntled, complaining and who may just decide to give up on the game.

    Yes, I think it is important for the Neverwinter PTB's to deal with known problems as quickly as possible - but just as important, perhaps I think more important, is for the PTB's to let players know they are aware of identified problems and are attempting to deal with them as expediently as possible - "please have patience". Knowing Neverwinter programmers are aware of specific problems and will be dealing with them would go a long way to placating the masses and keeping the existing and possibly new player base as opposed to players not knowing whether the programmers are even aware of any problems or whether anyone has any plans to address perceived problems.

    My 2¢
    i know what you mean. but it would be similar to how you can be rewarded with wards from chests. have you ever gotta a ward from a chest? i didnt, 6 years and I still didnt. i know its technically possible.
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 714Member Arc User
    edited May 21
    leonidrex said:

    dionchi said:

    leonidrex said:

    REWARDS:

    Would it destroy the economy if there was a small chance to find a lockbox key in an end dungeon chest?

    1% leveling dungeon/skirmishes, or an ME with 2 runes.
    2% intermediate dungeon/skirmishes, or an ME with 3 runes.
    3% advanced dungeons
    4% expert dungeons

    To prevent exploitation: Limit (1) Key per day from chests. Also, limit the RNG to only count the first 5 dungeons run by an account per day. After 5 dungeons, there would be a 0% chance to get a lockbox key. So, the maximum reward chance is if a player runs 5x LoMM dungeons per day. This would give a 20% chance to receive a lockbox key bonus reward.

    they make good % of their money from keys, wouldnt be suprised if that was most of their income. as a company they have no incentive to do that. something else has to be done to make loot worthwile.
    My thought on the general player population being able to - Very Rarely - find a Lockbox Key in normal game content is if a player who got a key opened a Lockbox and found something really good, like a coalescent ward for instance it could very well incentivize them to purchase keys or even VIP for the prospect of being able to get more good things.

    Just as there are awarded VIP tokens that give player VIP level awards do not advance a player's VIP level - the freebie Lockbox keys could be programmed to only give a limited range of awards, for instance no Tarmalune Trade Bars, all items from those Lockboxs opened with those special keys being BtC (bound to character), whatever...

    Sometimes people are more interested in buying something new - if they are able to get a little sample before they buy.

    The Shimmering Lockbox would have been a good incentive opportunity, but the rewards from the Shimmering Lockbox were so bad in my opinion that it did the exact opposite... people got what I felt to be mostly worthless items from the Shimmering Lockbox so (for me at least) there was no incentive to spend money on lockbox keys because from the example of the Shimmering Lockbox I could open it to find more mostly worthless items like the things from the Shimmering Lockbox.

    kreatyve said:

    There are still a LOT of bugs that need to be fixed, ASAP. :( Once they fix as many of those as possible, then they need to take another look at the scaling and do SOMETHING with it because it's not fun in it's current state.

    I agree, but think it's the other way round.
    Scaling needs fixing before tweaks. Otherwise if they DO bother to mend scaling they'll probably find that under whatever new scaling model they use, classes will need another pass at balancing.

    But back to the original point, I agree that everything that was done on Mod 16 was done with the best intention of making the game better.

    I think that had they done what seems to happen with STO, and maybe brainstormed some of the ideas first, like "OK Guys... what does everyone think... do we need to raise the level cap?" they would have given people reason to think about it, and maybe realise in advance that by doing something as innocent sounding as raising the level cap, you either create an archive of obsolete content OR require the majority of the game to fall under a new (draconian) scaling model...

    (If we were still living in a L70 world... scaling wouldn't ever have been this bad.)

    Maybe next time eh?
    Fix scaling problems first or other game play problems first... Damned if you do - Damned if you don't, the proverbial "rock and a hard space"... If both aren't dealt with or at least perceived as being dealt with in a timely manner there is going to be at least one segment of the player population disgruntled, complaining and who may just decide to give up on the game.

    Yes, I think it is important for the Neverwinter PTB's to deal with known problems as quickly as possible - but just as important, perhaps I think more important, is for the PTB's to let players know they are aware of identified problems and are attempting to deal with them as expediently as possible - "please have patience". Knowing Neverwinter programmers are aware of specific problems and will be dealing with them would go a long way to placating the masses and keeping the existing and possibly new player base as opposed to players not knowing whether the programmers are even aware of any problems or whether anyone has any plans to address perceived problems.

    My 2¢
    i know what you mean. but it would be similar to how you can be rewarded with wards from chests. have you ever gotta a ward from a chest? i didnt, 6 years and I still didnt. i know its technically possible.
    But all it would take would be for one player to get a coalescent ward or legendary whatever from a lockbox with a free key and they'd likely think coalescent wards or legendary stuff was pretty commonplace - that is unless or until they discovered differently and by then they could have spent a considerable sum purchasing lockbox keys.

    Of course not everyone is going to get great stuff from lockboxes but there will be some who do and by the same token not everyone is going to consistently get what they consider "junk" from lockboxes, but it will still happen to a few. It's all in the random roll of the dice and maybe some incentive that affords players to take a chance on what they might get - like the occasional albeit rare free key and an even more rare occasional something really good from that free key.

    -JMHO
    DD~
  • drumon88drumon88 Posts: 142Member Arc User
    dolrey said:

    @drumon88

    drumon88 said:

    2.1. Scaling was NOT needed, in any aspect of the game.

    What if I can have 100k dps (just for example) at my 80lvl character. New player at lvl 20 has 150dps. And another new player my friend has 10k dps at lvl 80.

    1) Let's explain that we can add different dungeons for each of these players depending on their stats. It is normal for many mmos (also oftenly they are very "old school" mmos).
    2) With every new module/addition in all mmos which use this system "top" and interesting dungeons become easy and boring because players gain better equipment and better stats. And only one new dungeon can be challenging and interesting for experienced players.

    *This happened and with NWO in mod 5. Experiensed players remember this well. All dungeons were even more trivial than now because of this. Needless to say how disappointed were everybody because of this.*

    3) In almoust all other mmos dungeons play relatively low role. And main attention is focused on grind of unbelievable expensive equipment (donating tons of real money oftenly) and dominating everyone using it in open world PvP or GvG.
    4) In NWO we have only dungeons. So this system really can work. I agree with you. But not in NWO where we have no PvP. We don't want to have only one dungeon interesting for experienced players. We don't want to go back to mod 5.
    5) This is why scaling was added. To let to me with 100k dps, my friend with 10k dps and beginer with 150 dps enjoy more content together.

    Of cource I agree with you that scaling does not work right and does not let us to do this now because different formulas are broken. But when they will be finally fixed every one will be able to enjoy ALL dungeons/skirmishes in the game. There are about 20-30 different dungeons/skirmishes with unique mechanics and all of them will be playable and interesting instead of only 1.

    That is what scaling supposed to do in neverwinter. But currently now it does not. Sad :(
    Your entire argument seems to revolve around having friends with wildly differing capabilities be able to group together. Well, there was absolutely nothing stopping you from doing that in mod15 and previous. If you weren't willing to dial back your DPS to help the run go smoother for your lower geared buddies, that was on you and you alone. And at the same time, if you weren't playing with friends/alliance-mates, you weren't forced into a gimped role.

    Now we don't get the choice. Now, those of us that do have the good gear and the skill and the time investment get no benefit from it, AND are forced to carry strangers that don't. At the same time, we don't even have the ABILITY to hard-carry friends through content they're not quite up to snuff for. That's not right, that's literally game-communism.

  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,338Member Arc User
    dolrey said:

    @drumon88

    drumon88 said:

    2.1. Scaling was NOT needed, in any aspect of the game.

    What if I can have 100k dps (just for example) at my 80lvl character. New player at lvl 20 has 150dps. And another new player my friend has 10k dps at lvl 80.

    1) Let's explain that we can add different dungeons for each of these players depending on their stats. It is normal for many mmos (also oftenly they are very "old school" mmos).
    2) With every new module/addition in all mmos which use this system "top" and interesting dungeons become easy and boring because players gain better equipment and better stats. And only one new dungeon can be challenging and interesting for experienced players.

    *This happened and with NWO in mod 5. Experiensed players remember this well. All dungeons were even more trivial than now because of this. Needless to say how disappointed were everybody because of this.*

    3) In almoust all other mmos dungeons play relatively low role. And main attention is focused on grind of unbelievable expensive equipment (donating tons of real money oftenly) and dominating everyone using it in open world PvP or GvG.
    4) In NWO we have only dungeons. So this system really can work. I agree with you. But not in NWO where we have no PvP. We don't want to have only one dungeon interesting for experienced players. We don't want to go back to mod 5.
    5) This is why scaling was added. To let to me with 100k dps, my friend with 10k dps and beginer with 150 dps enjoy more content together.

    Of cource I agree with you that scaling does not work right and does not let us to do this now because different formulas are broken. But when they will be finally fixed every one will be able to enjoy ALL dungeons/skirmishes in the game. There are about 20-30 different dungeons/skirmishes with unique mechanics and all of them will be playable and interesting instead of only 1.

    That is what scaling supposed to do in neverwinter. But currently now it does not. Sad :(
    Neverwinter has PvP. It's not our fault it's so broken that nobody wants to play it.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Posts: 4,221Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I like that term game communism.. that is pretty accurate..

    we cant have good things.. no one can!

    as more time has passed, the more pathetic I feel this entire module is. I have no idea why anyone would really like it.. but there are always wierd folks in every game.. so whatever.

  • antok500#4237 antok500 Posts: 59Member Arc User
    Yeah PVP is broken. Can we fix it, no. But can we break PVE to match so players wont play that either, yes.
  • nathanjmnathanjm Posts: 96Member Arc User
    I think that Harrison Bergeron is a better model for the model for the scaling.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 286Member Arc User
    dionchi said:

    I did the Dread Legion - or rather make that tried to do the Dread Legion tonight with at least one new player, we made it all the way to Varkoss the Unliving and things went seriously downhill. I died 28 times, I don’t know how many times the other players died but they each died multiple times.

    I used 28 Intense injury kits 14 of which I had on my character before queuing. I have no idea how many healing potions I used but I’m guessing 80 or 90 since I usually have a pretty fair surplus of those.

    Needless to say I ran out of gold to purchase new injury kits (10 injury kits cost 5 Gold) and by the time I ran out of gold I only had 1.7 Gold so it was either stand by the camp fire and heal or go back out to face the final boss crippled and with my stats seriously nerfed.

    For some reason I was unable to pass along the message to primarily concentrate on Varkoss seems (I’m guessing by the “HELP! requests in other languages I saw) few of the other party members understood English…

    Anyway the mobs just spawned and the Varkoss moved way too quickly and even when everyone eventually decided concentrate on the boss several party members (including myself) still died multiple times anyway.

    More than 37-minutes from start to finish at a cost of more than 22 Gold to replace healing potions and injury kits and at the end only 7 Gold and change plus the contents of the chest to show for it.

    ... I can't speak for the other players but that was defiantly NOT my definition of "fun" :-1:

    I agree. I do DPS from hell & he takes a looong time to take down. IMO, his health should be cut down to about 60% of its current level. There is no need to make players spam Stones of Health each time they get spiked by the spawning mobs around him 10 times in a row... in what is essentially a rinse & repeat battle.
  • magekazin#3980 magekazin Posts: 45Member Arc User
    @nitocris83 @kreatyve Ok here is just a point that I think we all are trying to make, you say we need to fix a few things then we will look at scaling. Scaling is your number 1 problem right now. If you, as you say, will keep it no matter what the player base says, then you must make fixing it every single devs only job till it is fixed out of respect for the players who play your game.

    Let me say one more thing on scaling, take a look at elder scrolls games. They tried to have scaling in one of their games to the level you have put here. They players hated it, and you know what it was one of the first things they said about the next in the series, there will be no scaling ever again. They listened to their customers and the next game was a smash hit.
  • dolreydolrey Posts: 605Member Arc User
    edited May 22
    @drumon88

    Now scaling does not work as it should. So current state of scaling is not what I would like to see and in the future too. Sorry for my english. I meant that scaling alows to play more content. Instead of only 1 "top" dungeon. And of cource now scaling does not handle this.

    Ok let's imagine that in the next weekly patch scaling will be cut out from the game. And you will be forced to play all old dungeons with your lvl 80 character and full equipment. We have no PvP. All other dungeons will be low lvl trash. So you will have only 1 new dungeon as the only interesting content for you.

    Will it be interesting for you? No. And exactly you will cry with all others who "hate" scaling that "Why this game has no dungeons?" "Why they are so easy?!" "We need more dungeons!" "Game is so bad" etc.

    Be realistic no one will give you 10 dungeons for every item level in the next weekly patch like magic. Not because cryptycs are bad etc. Because it takes a lot of time to create even one. I would like to have 10 new dungeons in the next week too as and rivers of milk and honey. But it is just impossible right?

    If you deny scaling, offer something in return. Tens of different dungeons for everyone is just a dream and not something believable. Do you have something realistic to suggest? I have no.

    So scaling is exactly that one thing wich is supposed to alow to you to have all dungeons interesting for you. And the fact that unfortunately it does not work perfect does not mean that saling should de just deleted from the game. It just should be fixed.
    Post edited by dolrey on

  • greenkwakmangreenkwakman Posts: 1Member Arc User
    hi I hope this is the right place to leave comment

    I have two wizards both have the same species same skills, boons as unlocked one has item level 17216 the other has item level 13346 all settings copied to other they are both Arcanists now that said my observation is I run them both throu the Master of the Hunt my high level
    char really struggled died several times and at the finish I had only done 36700 damage my other char dose much better creating 1.5 mil I know their is diffrences between the two instances but it looks to me that their is some in balance in scaleing

    I hope this is helpful to you also in dread legion the end boss Zulkir seem to drain your points most of time so you cant use your dailys iwould say that is not supposed to happen I think most of the changes are good

  • hercules125hercules125 Posts: 427Member Arc User
    I absolutely do not agree with the tired old trope that MMOs have to have healers, dps, and tanks - and that's it.

    Controllers and buffers/debuffers make any game much more interesting, and taking that out of this game, at least as far as buffing was a big mistake. Forcing some DC players into a role that they have zero interest in is IMO unacceptable in this stage of the game's life.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 311Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    I keep hearing how roles needed to be better defined than they were in prior mods such as healers needed to heal and tanks needed to tank. As someone that main a cleric I healed every time I played my cleric. As someone that played a fighter also regularly up to mod 15 I tanked. Stating that roles were not being used in the game is horse HAMSTER. Without tanks damage dealer would be dead quicker and without a healer again death was more likely to happen. Unlike mod 15 and prior it is now easier to die do to removal of life steal stat, which was a bigger problem than the actual role of healer or tank.

    Then you had to be unlucky to get to a grup witch was able to kill any boss with just 1 rotation. Due to DCs every1 were immortal (with or without life steal - witch was only covering the most stupid behaviours - but it was covering it well) and due to powershare/buff/debuff combos a dps was killing any trashes on sight and bosses in seconds.

    You could die - sure - but only due to lags or bugs - most of the latter inducted with huge dps witch was literally breaking any bosses mechanics - if any boss stand long enaugh to trigger it any way.
    (you know that moment when RasNsi is dead in 4 seconds of combat - not even every buff kicked in - but ending animation last 15 seconds)

    So it is not a horse HAMSTER as you trying to say here.
    And that in fact it was leading to a point were only dps/buff/debuff was what counted.
    If there are players who started they MMOs experince with Neverwinter since lets say MOD 10 then its not suprising that they cant find themselves in new reality.

    And the best proof of that was first Tales of Old event when lot of players find 4th/5th attempt to hard, and that was in fact a field trial of MOD 16 changes

    In fact you are correct only on low level content and low IL characters when some tanking or healing counted a bit - but with time and character developmnet all those became more and more insignificant up to end game where not needed at all.

    Not sure about you but I can admit that me and my friends were demigods back in MOD 15.
    Now we are just more powerfull (BIS) players, but still players.
    I am fine with that - really

    Only issue I see now is that tanks, well are not tanks too much - just bigger sacks of HP if that wont change there are going to be a new meta 4 dps+1 healer or 3dps+2healers (with ability to change into dps or tank if needed)
  • dolreydolrey Posts: 605Member Arc User

    People of neverwinter before Mod 16 were like RAMBO in fight and when enemy throw grenade to their feet they were not even concerned and after it explode they ask "hey what was that sound". Now it explodes they end up died and start yelling "everything is broken". There is dodge/sprint mechanics with shift key. Ya but that is to run ahead fast in dungeon and steal all dps to top dps chart.



  • dolreydolrey Posts: 605Member Arc User
    edited May 22

    I absolutely do not agree with the tired old trope that MMOs have to have healers, dps, and tanks - and that's it.

    Controllers and buffers/debuffers make any game much more interesting, and taking that out of this game, at least as far as buffing was a big mistake. Forcing some DC players into a role that they have zero interest in is IMO unacceptable in this stage of the game's life.

    Yes there are other roles except these 3 classical (tank heal dps). But there should be and special classes oriented on buffs/control not just all healers/tanks/dds should buff 1 dd. And probably in the future this new buffer will be bard (looks like not in the next module but possibly in this year).

  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Posts: 289Member Arc User
    I like buffing and debuffing and controlling mobs as a cw, it was fun, I didn't have to care about paingiver xD

  • drumon88drumon88 Posts: 142Member Arc User
    dolrey said:

    @drumon88



    Now scaling does not work as it should. So current state of scaling is not what I would like to see and in the future too. Sorry for my english. I meant that scaling alows to play more content. Instead of only 1 "top" dungeon. And of cource now scaling does not handle this.



    Ok let's imagine that in the next weekly patch scaling will be cut out from the game. And you will be forced to play all old dungeons with your lvl 80 character and full equipment. We have no PvP. All other dungeons will be low lvl trash. So you will have only 1 new dungeon as the only interesting content for you.



    Will it be interesting for you? No. And exactly you will cry with all others who "hate" scaling that "Why this game has no dungeons?" "Why they are so easy?!" "We need more dungeons!" "Game is so bad" etc.



    Be realistic no one will give you 10 dungeons for every item level in the next weekly patch like magic. Not because cryptycs are bad etc. Because it takes a lot of time to create even one. I would like to have 10 new dungeons in the next week too as and rivers of milk and honey. But it is just impossible right?



    If you deny scaling, offer something in return. Tens of different dungeons for everyone is just a dream and not something believable. Do you have something realistic to suggest? I have no.



    So scaling is exactly that one thing wich is supposed to alow to you to have all dungeons interesting for you. And the fact that unfortunately it does not work perfect does not mean that saling should de just deleted from the game. It just should be fixed.

    Yes, I have something realistic to suggest.

    INSTEAD OF PUSHING OUT A NEW, HALF-BAKED, SMALL MOD EVERY 4-5 MONTHS FOLLOW WHAT MOST OTHER GAMES DO AND KEEP IT TO ONE BIG RELEASE WITH SEVERAL DUNGEONS EVERY YEAR OR LESS. Stop with the huge bumps up in player capability every mod, if you're only gonna give us one new dungeon there's no reason all the new gear needs to be a 100% improvement over what it's replacing (like Heels of Fury was over Earthtreaders, or what Fured Kiuno was over whatever it replaced, etc). At the same time, actually figure out what's gonna be BIS before the mod goes live so we don't have one set that hangs around as BIS for literally 13 mods (Orcus set) while certain other item slots get replaced basically every single mod (boots).
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Posts: 213Member Arc User
    I only agree with points 2.2 and 3. They need a increasing line in terms of difficulty vs reward. Their difficulty is currently setup as a sine wave or some other kind of smorgasbord of data points on the graph of difficulty vs reward.

    Combat is now WAY too slow. They need to find a way to speed it up. I need to press buttons much more often and decisions on how often I push them need to be my decision and not in the devs hands. Bring back recovery to where you can have 5 to 7 second encounters but also give players a debuff on damage done based on the more recovery you get up to 20% damage reduction after all calculations. This will give another aspect to the the game and decision points for min maxing players. If you know it will be a quick fight you go no recovery. If it will be a long fight you go high recovery. This is interesting and plays well into the current content since they started to implement ME's which change the content you have to fight. Also, change buffs to where they don't multiply and are additive! That is the issue for past creep since that would have been a 20% to 50% reduction in damage for the player base dependent on how good you were at maximizing your buffs. Every time someone says that the combat isn't fun or slow is due to removing recovery.
    dolrey said:

    @drumon88



    Now scaling does not work as it should. So current state of scaling is not what I would like to see and in the future too. Sorry for my english. I meant that scaling alows to play more content. Instead of only 1 "top" dungeon. And of cource now scaling does not handle this.



    Ok let's imagine that in the next weekly patch scaling will be cut out from the game. And you will be forced to play all old dungeons with your lvl 80 character and full equipment. We have no PvP. All other dungeons will be low lvl trash. So you will have only 1 new dungeon as the only interesting content for you.



    Will it be interesting for you? No. And exactly you will cry with all others who "hate" scaling that "Why this game has no dungeons?" "Why they are so easy?!" "We need more dungeons!" "Game is so bad" etc.



    Be realistic no one will give you 10 dungeons for every item level in the next weekly patch like magic. Not because cryptycs are bad etc. Because it takes a lot of time to create even one. I would like to have 10 new dungeons in the next week too as and rivers of milk and honey. But it is just impossible right?



    If you deny scaling, offer something in return. Tens of different dungeons for everyone is just a dream and not something believable. Do you have something realistic to suggest? I have no.



    So scaling is exactly that one thing wich is supposed to alow to you to have all dungeons interesting for you. And the fact that unfortunately it does not work perfect does not mean that saling should de just deleted from the game. It just should be fixed.

    What we wanted Dolrey is for the campaign zones to be without scaling. This is the only place people are asking for no scaling to be placed on that zone since you have to do that content over and over for boons/stronghold progression. You have to do these areas so much that 1000 to 5000 times through isn't unexpected for that content to get what you need and your not getting something outside of the boons that will help your character. I say this since players can be removed from guilds. If you put in a lot of effort in a guild and they kick you all of the time and resources you placed into that guild is gone. After running through the same content a few times I really don't care for it outside of nostalgia.

    The dungeons in my opinion should work like the following:

    Random Dungeon: Easy dungeon marketed as starter or beginners dungeons for new players to get some AD and start into the game. This is the kiddies pool in the game and should be basic and easy for new/casual players. Quick fast AD once a day. below 17k - If a player goes over 17k adding items back on that player gets no rewards in the dungeon and players can instantly kick you. Remove the follow feature in these dungeons. Randomly in the middle of the dungeon give a player a location that they have to stand on or they don't get any rewards. Place a notice on their screen so that it is noticeable but not in the log for that player. Players that don't go to that location will have to play through a wall of text on their screen for a minute and if they don't go there can be kicked by another player in that dungeon.

    Intermediate Dungeon: For those who graduated from the kiddies pool and are entering the 3 ft deep wading pool for harder content. Relatively Easy dungeons that can be ground out for improvement to your characters relatively fast. Relatively quick fast AD once a day. 15k and up

    Advanced Dungeon: This is where you have entered the pool and you can maybe stand on the shallow end with you head out of the water. As you go deeper into the pool it gets deeper and they put in waves to make it harder in this area without knowing how to swim. FBI and up to the next area is where I see this starting. Look at the person to your left, then to the person on your right, only one of them is coming out back with you if you make it. Hey, the water is deep enough you have a diving board now. 18k and up

    Expert Dungeon: This should be the last 3-5 dungeons/trials in the game. They should be where players who are gluttons for punishment and great rewards should be located. You are deep sea diving in one of the worlds deepest sink holes where you have sharks, deep sea creatures and dizzying depths to where eventually there is a bottom but you can't see it. Enter at your own peril. 21k and up Those that want challenge should stay here. If your going to have longer time commitment content this is the place to do it.
    Guild Leader: Under the Influence (GH20)
    Yule (Barb): 25k : Siren (TR): 23k : Torun (DC): 24k : Siren OP (OP): 24k : Siren SW (SW): 21k : Modern (F): 23k : Cherry1 (CW) : 21k
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 714Member Arc User
    edited May 22
    I Just Want My Cool Down Timers To Be The Same As My Opponents Cool Down Timers!!! When I have to wait 16 seconds and 18 Seconds for my cool down timers to expire, but opponent mobs and bosses are hitting me with their powerful attacks every 5 - 6 to 8 seconds... Something is seriously skinky in Neverwinter - With sincere Apologies to the Bard

    People of neverwinter before Mod 16 were like RAMBO in fight and when enemy throw grenade to their feet they were not even concerned and after it explode they ask "hey what was that sound". Now it explodes they end up died and start yelling "everything is broken". There is dodge/sprint mechanics with shift key. Ya but that is to run ahead fast in dungeon and steal all dps to top dps chart.

    I'm not saying everything is "broken", but without a doubt I believe quite a few things are out of balance as per my previous post.

    Blocking and evading tactics are all very well, but when players are getting gang HAMSTER-ed their opponents, opponent cool down timers are half or a third of what player cool down timers are, eventually the stamina drain catches up with everyone.

    I realize Cryptic wants everyone to pay through the nose to be able to play their "free to play" game but with opponents having 4-6-8 second cool down timers and players having 16 to 18 Second (or more) encounter cool down timers, then 18 second cool down timer for healing potions, add to that opponents usually out numbering players by 2 or 3 to 1...

    Players are hit by one opponent and stunned and that is followed up by another opponent with a powerful attack that takes away half of a player's hit points then immediately stunned again there's something wrong.

    As I said, I just think something smells currently in Neverwinter ~
    Post edited by dionchi on
    DD~
  • regenerderegenerde Posts: 2,341Member Arc User
    edited May 23
    kreatyve said:

    regenerde said:

    kreatyve said:

    There are still a LOT of bugs that need to be fixed, ASAP. :( Once they fix as many of those as possible, then they need to take another look at the scaling and do SOMETHING with it because it's not fun in it's current state.

    Well, the problem is, that it feels like they're either allready working on the next module, or that not enough Devs are left for Neverwinter to actually fix the major bugs and scaling... or that they have their priorities on what should be fixed first, second and so on really kind of backwards.

    I mean, companions are broken in general since Undermountain and the last official word on only the healing ones was "We will look into it!", and while enemies can swarm our characters within seconds and drown us in either crowd controling or damaging abilities our companions just stand around enjoy the view and do little to nothing to assist or heal us!

    The same goes for enchantments, they either don't work at all (i think i saw someone mentioning that some of them are also broken since Undermountain), or so little that they're hardly noticeable at all. They should increase the damage of for example weapon enchantments to 1% per enchantment rank, and do something similar to armor enchantments as well.

    Last but not least, the person in charge should really be forced to play the game on the life server with a fresh level 80 for a while, to see for themself how mucked up the game is right now.
    The size of the team hasn't changed. As others have left, they brought in new people. This is extremely normal for the industry as a whole.

    And they do play. Some of them play daily. I have a couple on my friends list that I see online pretty much every day. I don't share their identities because I was asked not to. They don't reveal themselves either, and the reasons why should be pretty obvious.
    Then how on gods green earth are they having fun playing their own game right now? Not trying to troll or provoke here, but i'm honestly curious about that, because i'm simply lost in this sea of bugs at the moment.

    I mean, what are they currently working on, what are their plans for the next few patches, or what can the players do to help?

    Anyway, i hoped they had fixed the Twisted Dwarf Scroll or the Mysterious Egg, but they're also broken since Undermountain, opening them will transfer the companion directly to the character companion list instead of placing the companion in the inventory, and i don't think there's a way to remove double companions now either, or is there?
    It appears those "companion packs" are on the one hand treated like regular companions, but on the other hand are without the "protection" of leaving it intact in case we allready have the companion it's about to give us...
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 714Member Arc User
    edited May 23

    I absolutely do not agree with the tired old trope that MMOs have to have healers, dps, and tanks - and that's it.

    Controllers and buffers/debuffers make any game much more interesting, and taking that out of this game, at least as far as buffing was a big mistake. Forcing some DC players into a role that they have zero interest in is IMO unacceptable in this stage of the game's life.

    You are correct, "MMO's don't have to have healers..." however this isn't just any MMO it is a D&D MMO and D&D restrictions are pretty clear on what player character's can and can't do... for instance Mages usually cannot be Tanks and as a rule Tanks cannot usually perform Magic. The same way Mages are restricted from wearing metal weapons or armor and Barbarians can't use Bows as ranged weapons.

    To my knowledge since the inception of Dungeons and Dragons and the character guidelines associated with the game the impetus has been on a "Well Balanced Party" and yes, that means Tanks for tanking and Healers for healing.

    My 2¢
    regenerde said:

    Then how on gods green earth are they having fun playing their own game right now? Not trying to troll or provoke here, but i'm honestly curious about that, because i'm simply lost in this sea of bugs at the moment.
    - snip -

    Easy (IMO), game developers can enjoy playing the game because they know all or most of the tips and little tricks - after all by in large they either programmed, or spoke with those who programmed those tips and tricks into the game to begin with. That plus I'm willing to bet game programmers can optimize a player character with whatever kinds of skills, enchantments enhancements, armor companions and mounts they want to have instead of having to spend hours grinding for (or money to buy) those things.

    Secondly I kind of doubt most programmers play a character from creation to end game the same way players have to play their characters.

    I'm guessing for the most part they just don't have the time and I kind of doubt after spending hours having to 'work' on Neverwinter - I many programmers or developers spend much time actually playing Neverwinter for "fun".

    DD~
Sign In or Register to comment.