The epeen problem is not constrained to pvp though is it..? Plenty of exclusive, elitist people in pve too. When a new mod comes out, if you're not in the meta, or don't have stellar item level, good luck getting into the newest dungeon. How many time have we seen theads like that in the forums..?
Of course when the novelty wears off, and the new gear/or experience makes the dungeon easier, then there are more people willing to carry and the furore dies down. This is what makes pvp different, at least at higher levels, because the dificulty never wears off, the other players/teams are constantly improving their gear, it's red queen all over. There are no carries. And in solo Q, getting an undergeared or inexperienced toon on your team if the other team has not... then it's largely all over.
These days, because the pvp population has shrunk, all the faces know all the faces. It's not a huge friendly group to be honest and there are decent people, and there are HAMSTER. The decent people accept that their dominance, or lack of, is due beyond a certain point to how broken or not broken their class is in a particular mod. Others don't. Pvp is to some extent self-policing, people, me for example, will hunt down the obvious exploiters and offensive players if we see them in a match or in icewind dale.
However, unfortunately it's usually the broken classes that stay, TRs mainly this mod and last. My class, HR, has been just hanging on by a thread for 3 mods now. Even I've stopped. The latest pvp TR is just too much. As I said before the current pvp population is not representative of what it used to be like.
Anyway, this is making me depressed. Basically yes, there are bad people in pvp, and yes, it's a medium that draws them. But there are also many, though more passively rather than overtly, aggressive people in pve. It just the game is such that you cannot opt out of pve, but can opt out of pvp. That doesn't mean there isn't space for both worlds.
No idea what my toon is now.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
edited April 2019
It wasn't my intention to depress you.
Yeah, there are HAMSTER in PvE. Can't deny it. The elitist that only want 20k+ il to run the newest shiny hole in the ground. The difference is, in PvE we have a choice not to run with them. A good guild/alliance and you can find a way into the newest. Usually with like-minded people that want to try out the new.
In PvP there is little choice of who you get queued with or who might come bouncing down the hill in the Scree or the Haftwood to shoot you in the back and call it a great victory because you weren't able to defend yourself in time.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Having said what I said though, if pvp did disappear, so would I, pve seems pointless without using it to gear my pvp toon, or grind AD to the same end. Pve simply for it's own sake seems to defeat itself. You run a dungeon to get gear you didn't need to complete the dungeon in the first place. Then you whinge about it being to easy, when you've literally been running the dungeon to get the gear that made it too easy in the first place.
Good pvp'ers are also pretty decent pve'ers by default, but good pve'ers are not necessarily good pvp'ers, and/or avoid it like the plague. This has always been the game's problem. Whilst the pvp crowd understand the problems of pve, and comiserate with them, the pve crowd largely do nothing but denigrate pvp, despite the fact that many people enjoy it.
Which is unfair.
Yes, it is. Because getting steamrolled by a level 12 with Rank 12 enchants is the very definition of fair...
Having said what I said though, if pvp did disappear, so would I, pve seems pointless without using it to gear my pvp toon, or grind AD to the same end. Pve simply for it's own sake seems to defeat itself. You run a dungeon to get gear you didn't need to complete the dungeon in the first place. Then you whinge about it being to easy, when you've literally been running the dungeon to get the gear that made it too easy in the first place.
Good pvp'ers are also pretty decent pve'ers by default, but good pve'ers are not necessarily good pvp'ers, and/or avoid it like the plague. This has always been the game's problem. Whilst the pvp crowd understand the problems of pve, and comiserate with them, the pve crowd largely do nothing but denigrate pvp, despite the fact that many people enjoy it.
Which is unfair.
Yes, it is. Because getting steamrolled by a level 12 with Rank 12 enchants is the very definition of fair...
Well, the system does not have checks in place to group up players according to their IL in PvP.
PvE has this - Castle Ravenloft a minimum 13,000 IL, TONG and CODG a minimum of 12,000 IL. But even most PvE players think that 13k for CR is usually extremely difficult if everyone is 13k.
Yet in PvP, they allow new level 70's with IL from as little as 2K to queue with players who are able to destroy CR i.e. players with ILs of 15-16k+ without companions!
It is lazy programming that allows the roflstomping to begin with. As a PvP player more often than a PvE player myself, I take no pleasure at all in killing IL < 12k players, and definitely not those < 6k in which even at-wills kill them.
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
To be fair you can't blame people for doing what the game legally allows. People will stick the highest enchants they have access to. Isn't that the veritable definition of "twink"?
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
To be fair you can't blame people for doing what the game legally allows. People will stick the highest enchants they have access to. Isn't that the veritable definition of "twink"?
Actually the term "twink" came from a game where you could put on one item that made adding another item because of an unlock created then removing the first item will maintaining the access to the second item. Then you can place another item in the first item position to take full advantage of that round about way to gain an advantage.
0
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
...much like putting in high ranking enchants in leveling gear and sticking them on a level 12 toon.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Having said what I said though, if pvp did disappear, so would I, pve seems pointless without using it to gear my pvp toon, or grind AD to the same end. Pve simply for it's own sake seems to defeat itself. You run a dungeon to get gear you didn't need to complete the dungeon in the first place. Then you whinge about it being to easy, when you've literally been running the dungeon to get the gear that made it too easy in the first place.
Good pvp'ers are also pretty decent pve'ers by default, but good pve'ers are not necessarily good pvp'ers, and/or avoid it like the plague. This has always been the game's problem. Whilst the pvp crowd understand the problems of pve, and comiserate with them, the pve crowd largely do nothing but denigrate pvp, despite the fact that many people enjoy it.
Which is unfair.
Yes, it is. Because getting steamrolled by a level 12 with Rank 12 enchants is the very definition of fair...
Well, the system does not have checks in place to group up players according to their IL in PvP.
PvE has this - Castle Ravenloft a minimum 13,000 IL, TONG and CODG a minimum of 12,000 IL. But even most PvE players think that 13k for CR is usually extremely difficult if everyone is 13k.
Yet in PvP, they allow new level 70's with IL from as little as 2K to queue with players who are able to destroy CR i.e. players with ILs of 15-16k+ without companions!
It is lazy programming that allows the roflstomping to begin with. As a PvP player more often than a PvE player myself, I take no pleasure at all in killing IL < 12k players, and definitely not those < 6k in which even at-wills kill them.
But there is a system. Not in place, because they chose to turn it off. But there is a system. The turned it off because the population is too low to support it. And that is directly the fault of the PVP community for choosing to farm newbies rather than foster a welcoming environment. You cannot blame players for not wanting to play PVP. There is nothing stopping them. PVP has always been open to all players over level 12. The only reason people don't want to play, is that there is no fun to be had being farmed like an NPC. And then teabagged.
1
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
The only time that system worked.. was during the event that gave out goodies, enough people logged in that I felt most matches seemed even..
When was that anyways.. ages ago.
Regardless, even then , there has been so many broken items/classes that its never going to work.
They either have to do the following and or all.
1. Remove gear dependent pvp.. doubt it will happen.. because money 2. Remove pve and pvp builds completely.. this is what other games do.. just because x, y or z skill should work on pve bosses.. shouldnt mean they should on pvp folks.. I never understood why this didnt happen early in the game.. but again.. resources. 3. Add rewards into doing pvp = to the time spent in pve.. so people have time to play it.. when they removed the AD from leadership.. it really hampered me alot.. too much time in game to earn gear to play.
In reality.. none of this will happen.. so pvp will flounder along with the same ineptitude it has since mods 3 or 4.
Which goes back to the original statement.. since they cant barely bother with enough assets to make PVE work.. I highly doubt pvp will get any actual support and if it is, it will be a one time affair and leave it broken again anyways.
To be brutally honest.. this game doesn't have enough resources to keep going.. no matter what perspective you choose to play, either pve or pvp, it all seems to be crashing down anyways. The mess that will be mod 16.. will just highlight the last year.. of the broken mechanics, game-play, bugs and overall incompetence.. due the company refusing to higher more then a maintenance staff to support the game.
Comments
Of course when the novelty wears off, and the new gear/or experience makes the dungeon easier, then there are more people willing to carry and the furore dies down. This is what makes pvp different, at least at higher levels, because the dificulty never wears off, the other players/teams are constantly improving their gear, it's red queen all over. There are no carries. And in solo Q, getting an undergeared or inexperienced toon on your team if the other team has not... then it's largely all over.
These days, because the pvp population has shrunk, all the faces know all the faces. It's not a huge friendly group to be honest and there are decent people, and there are HAMSTER. The decent people accept that their dominance, or lack of, is due beyond a certain point to how broken or not broken their class is in a particular mod. Others don't. Pvp is to some extent self-policing, people, me for example, will hunt down the obvious exploiters and offensive players if we see them in a match or in icewind dale.
However, unfortunately it's usually the broken classes that stay, TRs mainly this mod and last. My class, HR, has been just hanging on by a thread for 3 mods now. Even I've stopped. The latest pvp TR is just too much. As I said before the current pvp population is not representative of what it used to be like.
Anyway, this is making me depressed. Basically yes, there are bad people in pvp, and yes, it's a medium that draws them. But there are also many, though more passively rather than overtly, aggressive people in pve. It just the game is such that you cannot opt out of pve, but can opt out of pvp. That doesn't mean there isn't space for both worlds.
Yeah, there are HAMSTER in PvE. Can't deny it. The elitist that only want 20k+ il to run the newest shiny hole in the ground. The difference is, in PvE we have a choice not to run with them. A good guild/alliance and you can find a way into the newest. Usually with like-minded people that want to try out the new.
In PvP there is little choice of who you get queued with or who might come bouncing down the hill in the Scree or the Haftwood to shoot you in the back and call it a great victory because you weren't able to defend yourself in time.
PvE has this - Castle Ravenloft a minimum 13,000 IL, TONG and CODG a minimum of 12,000 IL. But even most PvE players think that 13k for CR is usually extremely difficult if everyone is 13k.
Yet in PvP, they allow new level 70's with IL from as little as 2K to queue with players who are able to destroy CR i.e. players with ILs of 15-16k+ without companions!
It is lazy programming that allows the roflstomping to begin with. As a PvP player more often than a PvE player myself, I take no pleasure at all in killing IL < 12k players, and definitely not those < 6k in which even at-wills kill them.
We've suggested grouping players to their IL to the Dev team before, but they do not care.
When was that anyways.. ages ago.
Regardless, even then , there has been so many broken items/classes that its never going to work.
They either have to do the following and or all.
1. Remove gear dependent pvp.. doubt it will happen.. because money
2. Remove pve and pvp builds completely.. this is what other games do.. just because x, y or z skill should work on pve bosses.. shouldnt mean they should on pvp folks.. I never understood why this didnt happen early in the game.. but again.. resources.
3. Add rewards into doing pvp = to the time spent in pve.. so people have time to play it.. when they removed the AD from leadership.. it really hampered me alot.. too much time in game to earn gear to play.
In reality.. none of this will happen.. so pvp will flounder along with the same ineptitude it has since mods 3 or 4.
Which goes back to the original statement.. since they cant barely bother with enough assets to make PVE work.. I highly doubt pvp will get any actual support and if it is, it will be a one time affair and leave it broken again anyways.
To be brutally honest.. this game doesn't have enough resources to keep going.. no matter what perspective you choose to play, either pve or pvp, it all seems to be crashing down anyways. The mess that will be mod 16.. will just highlight the last year.. of the broken mechanics, game-play, bugs and overall incompetence.. due the company refusing to higher more then a maintenance staff to support the game.
I do not blame the devs, I feel bad for them.