I honestly think the only reason players are not interested in this new pack for $150 is because of the uncertainty of mod 16 and how this pack will play out in the new mod. However; this isn't news. There have been several items sold for $10 in the past that are nearly useless now. One such item are the epic trowel and pickaxe. The trowel was character only item used to dig up relics in the Storm Kings Thunder campaign. Its obsolete since the only real reason to get it was due to the armor sets that SKT had which required being empowered with Voninblod. This constant need for it made getting the epic trowel something to consider since it could dig up epic relics. The same with the epic pickaxe, which was used in Icewind Dale campaign for collecting blackice. Another obsolete crafting material since pretty much everything related to blackice is inferrior to easier obtained gear.
Both of these items sill cost $10 despite the fact their demand is nearly zero. That being the trowel still has a tiny bit of relevance for a leveling character that needs voninblod for the boons in the SKT campaign. But since it can't be traded it becomes worthless once those boons are unlocked. There is zero need for it yet cryptic still sells it for $10.
The over all point of this post is to point out that this strategy from cryptic to sell items that become obsolete later is nothing new. There are dozens of other examples and one of the more recent ones is the Chultan Tiger which was a highly sought after companion. In the new mod it has been drastically reduced in importance. Not only that but to make the tiger shine in the new mod you will need other legendary beast companions to go with it. So now the tiger relies on having other things to make it worth having. This also brings in those artifact weapons they were selling in packs which are also now obsolete.
I could go on and on for days pointing out the items that cryptic has sold for on occasion a lot of cash that are now not worth even a fraction of their in game value. So its always buyer beware. If you are willing to give cryptic money, your mindset should be that you are wanting to support them as a company and keep the game live. Expecting items to maintain their value is something you have to complete get passed and forget about.
So although this new pack might not be worth the money, I still respect those players who pay for it. It keeps cryptic working on NW.
2
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Nothing in this game is worth a $150 real money. Now if you have saved up that much zen from ad exchange, fine go for it, but even then I personally think it's a ripoff.
I only spend real money... hardly get 400 raw ad per day...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
> @demonmonger said: > Nothing in this game is worth a $150 real money. Now if you have saved up that much zen from ad exchange, fine go for it, but even then I personally think it's a ripoff. > > I only spend real money... hardly get 400 raw ad per day...
Don't run any dungeons? Would figure even a solo wasy dungeon would give you 3k or 4k in rough ad. I maxed a ton of salvage for rough AD before they scrapped that, so now I'm just going thru the 100k a day rturnover.
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited March 2019
> @darkheart#6758 said: > > @demonmonger said: > > Nothing in this game is worth a $150 real money. Now if you have saved up that much zen from ad exchange, fine go for it, but even then I personally think it's a ripoff. > > > > I only spend real money... hardly get 400 raw ad per day... > > Don't run any dungeons? Would figure even a solo wasy dungeon would give you 3k or 4k in rough ad. I maxed a ton of salvage for rough AD before they scrapped that, so now I'm just going thru the 100k a day rturnover.
I only have so much time to play during the day.... before I could spend 14 hours and wait for queues and fail maps with afk bots. Now I have 10 minutes at a time to play so most of my time will be waiting for group and having incomplete dungeons when my son 1 year old wakes up.
So I wait to buy out campaigns and play solo most of the time
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
There are people dedicated to playing Neverwinter for hours at a time, they don't mind the endless grinding or are able to make more game money because they already had a stockpile of game money...
Then there are the rest of us who have real life responsibilities, demanding jobs, a family, children, and even some semblance of a social life. There are a few days where I do spend quite a few hours playing the game and on those days there are projects around the house that don’t get done but I figure it’s a little cheaper than going out for a few drinks, buying tickets to a show or buying the most up to date paraphernalia for some of the hobbies I like… at least I used to feel that way.
From my limited experience on preview, and suspecting just about everything following the release of Mod16 is going to take even more time (did I mention I saw Mod 16 dungeon run on YouTube that took over 30 minutes with a party that had some really good, 22K+ gear?) and more money (umm, $150 for the Mod16 player's pack) than anything we’ve seen previously, I just might be spending a lot less time playing Neverwinter and much more spending time (and money) out socializing, with my hobbies or just puttering around the house doing some of those minor projects I’ve been putting off…
But we’ll see, I'm willing to give Mod16 a go... Since I survived Mod6 after thinking it would be the end of my Neverwintering, perhaps for all of my initial impressions of Mod16 it'll turn out to be 'not so bad' too ~
There have been several items sold for $10 in the past that are nearly useless now. One such item are the epic trowel and pickaxe. ...
I was GOING to reply that for just a few $$ more you could buy out the SKT campaign entirely...but I went to double check the price in the Zen Store and - woah - they've removed most of the campaign buyouts with the last update.
SKT, Cloaked, ToD, Maze Engine -- pretty much every individual campaign buyout is gone but DR and Chult...
There have been several items sold for $10 in the past that are nearly useless now. One such item are the epic trowel and pickaxe. ...
I was GOING to reply that for just a few $$ more you could buy out the SKT campaign entirely...but I went to double check the price in the Zen Store and - woah - they've removed most of the campaign buyouts with the last update.
SKT, Cloaked, ToD, Maze Engine -- pretty much every individual campaign buyout is gone but DR and Chult...
MOD 16 devalues boons. No point to completing campaigns. Certainly no point in paying money for it.
MOD 16 devalues boons. No point to completing campaigns. Certainly no point in paying money for it.
Agreed. The reward for boons is so diminished that their additive bonus so insignificant that you would essentially waste your time or effort trying to get the boon. The thing is, it has been tested, running a character without any boons and a character with full boons and the effect is so unnoticeable that it seems the boons add nothing significant. Some players testing this thought maybe the boons were not actively working at all which was giving the false test result. So as we get closer to launch day we will test this again but as it current sits it seems the boons are just a carrot on a stick that does nothing once you obtain them.
Also revamping the classes is not the same as adding a new class? When I play dnd I think of Druids and Monks and Sorcerers and Bards, Gnomes are my favorite race to play.
0
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
I have reservations about the game, not because of mod 16, or even the massive overall, but for some of the stated reasons for it:
1) developer turnover. One of the reasons given for making the simplified system is coding something that is easy to fix, so that as developers come and go, it won't be coding that no one knows. IF the basis of the coding in mod 16 provides a platform on which bugs can be fixed (and even if the stat formulas are part of this), then that is a plus. Of the 3 versions of formulas in the game, mods 1-5 is still my favorite. 2) size of development team. This is a greater concern than point one, as they are working overtime to push this out, but I am concerned that the staff size is too small, even with easier coding, to handle the community when the influx happens into mod 16. This also impacts the future development of the game 3) monetization schemes. Budget cuts, turnover and small size is most likely due to cost saving measures (by attrition or layoffs...not gonna speculate). either way, introducing monetization into the game more aggressively with less payback or changes to encourage spending, are not tasteful. Of course, psychologically, #1 and #2 feed more into whether I will spend future money, if I think the game has a future, enough time so that the foundation laid can be built up. 4) accessibility for new players... there are multiple videos that show how accessibility destroys the psychological effect of having achieved something exclusive in the game through actually playing the game. My concern with mod 16, with the seal vendor in Undermountain and with the pack offering the 2nd best weapon set (???), is accessibility, so that content can be skipped. Warnings to devs that changes to boons now encourages even more one to skip content and go right to the end (path of least resistance), means that accessibility destroys exclusivity and desire to play. The changes to the classes in their most fundamental form ALSO makes exclusivity of game play a thing of the past, which is why I continue to feel dejected. Even in mod 6, I was able to make a build that was unique to address bugs to get groups through the dungeons (thanks Dekonia Moone for your Pally!). But, now there is no more difference between players. It is just raw stats and cosmetics, and a flattening at the top, which one can get to by skipping content. Thus, anything achieved up to this point sees no progress forward. And this is by design. Of all the things, this is what is the most difficult to swallow...a sense of accomplishment is going away. The design to target new players and give them instant access has the correlary side effect of destroying the old players. And this process will need to be followed ad infinitum ad nauseam as the new players get everything right away, hit the part where the % difference between the top and them is so flat that they wont want to stay. So, more new players are pulled in to rush, with a never ending cycle of rush to the flat top and leave.
In this vein, I am not excited for mod 16. But, it did not start with mod 16. It merely reached the tipping point. I still will not rush to leave, for the one reason that I have done the new campaign and enjoyed the story line and exploring, and the fights. I felt a little bit like a tank in mod 1, and having to learn to replay the Fighter was both frustrating and someone exciting. If....IF mod 16 is merely a base to build on, and there really is more coming in 17, 18, and 19...then I will just wait it out.
Agreed. The reward for boons is so diminished that their additive bonus so insignificant that you would essentially waste your time or effort trying to get the boon. The thing is, it has been tested, running a character without any boons and a character with full boons and the effect is so unnoticeable that it seems the boons add nothing significant. Some players testing this thought maybe the boons were not actively working at all which was giving the false test result. So as we get closer to launch day we will test this again but as it current sits it seems the boons are just a carrot on a stick that does nothing once you obtain them.
Well.. some of the boons are fairly nice to have.
The problem is that the value of the boons diminish very rapidly when you have picked up the most important ones, so there is very little incentive to keep running campaigns to pick that last boon point.
1
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
I liked the final chult boons so much that I bought a campaign buyout pack when I had 1 boon left to obtain. I hated playing chult but really wanted that boon... and poof... 30 days later that noon is gone... doesn't sit well with me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
They've taken the things that made playing the game interesting and cut them out of it. It feels bland because it is bland. It feels tedious because it is tedious. If code simplification is a major driving force then I submit that they are poor software architects. A game of this complexity must be primarily data-driven -- and by extension rule-driven. That's something that, for example, the EQEmu team learned at 8:00am on day one. Attempting to implement something as complex as NWO entirely in code would be folly and immediately lead to unmaintainable sphaghetti code. Even using a model- based approach like SCADE to generate code might be an improvement but ultimately it should be data sets that drive things.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I play on xbox most of the time, and once I finish getting my main the last of the boons, I'll probably just login to farm ad and my vip keys until that expires, at least if I don't see anything encouraging between now and mod 16 dropping on console... So far it looks like my pally is gonna be much harder to play in mod 16 than he is now. And he just got playable about 4 boons ago...
I already do this on my main but I have 7 other characters that need tending too. LOL Anyways I don't blame you for having this bleak outlook. I think for the most part, brand new players who start just after mod 16 will find things fine. Its the Veterans and simi-new players who will find things awkward and even depressing. For your Paly, it will be like you got hit on the head and forgot what you use to do as a paladin.
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
> @bobo#5090 said: > I need to spend more time in preview, but so far all of this make me wanna set NW down for a awhile a pick up "A Tale of Two Cities", the book yes seriously. They're taking allthe cool stuff, stat rolls, boons, feat trees, and forcing everyone into a vanilla toon loadout. They're taking things that people have spent gobs of time and real cash acquiring(chultan tigers) and making them worthless. Every single change they have made has not been met with any positive feedback from what I have read lately. I certainly don't see any good from any of the changes they've made. > > My one and only demand for the devs: > > Just create the new content and leave everything else about the game alone. So it's a little unbalanced, thats gonna happen even in mod 16 when a few people figure out how to game the new system, and then we'll be right back here again a few mods down the road. I play on xbox most of the time, and once I finish getting my main the last of the boons, I'll probably just login to farm ad and my vip keys until that expires, at least if I don't see anything encouraging between now and mod 16 dropping on console... So far it looks like my pally is gonna be much harder to play in mod 16 than he is now. And he just got playable about 4 boons ago...
We already figured out the new system and what is bis... for each class...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
that 14th rank cant get upgrade to 15th. just hold on that until you get all done upgradings.
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
> @bobo#5090 said: > > @bobo#5090 said: > > > I need to spend more time in preview, but so far all of this make me wanna set NW down for a awhile a pick up "A Tale of Two Cities", the book yes seriously. They're taking allthe cool stuff, stat rolls, boons, feat trees, and forcing everyone into a vanilla toon loadout. They're taking things that people have spent gobs of time and real cash acquiring(chultan tigers) and making them worthless. Every single change they have made has not been met with any positive feedback from what I have read lately. I certainly don't see any good from any of the changes they've made. > > > > > > My one and only demand for the devs: > > > > > > Just create the new content and leave everything else about the game alone. So it's a little unbalanced, thats gonna happen even in mod 16 when a few people figure out how to game the new system, and then we'll be right back here again a few mods down the road. I play on xbox most of the time, and once I finish getting my main the last of the boons, I'll probably just login to farm ad and my vip keys until that expires, at least if I don't see anything encouraging between now and mod 16 dropping on console... So far it looks like my pally is gonna be much harder to play in mod 16 than he is now. And he just got playable about 4 boons ago... > > > > We already figured out the new system and what is bis... for each class... > > And just what is going to be BIS for mod 16 for a pally? As it appears to me now it will be to just set the pally aside and play as a SW, or CW. Or start over from scratch as a fighter or... assuming I'll be able to move all my enchants, except of of course my 2 r14s which are btc. Ones the anniversary enchant from last year, and the other the heart of fire from AI. Or I'll set the game down and find something else to do...
Comments
Both of these items sill cost $10 despite the fact their demand is nearly zero. That being the trowel still has a tiny bit of relevance for a leveling character that needs voninblod for the boons in the SKT campaign. But since it can't be traded it becomes worthless once those boons are unlocked. There is zero need for it yet cryptic still sells it for $10.
The over all point of this post is to point out that this strategy from cryptic to sell items that become obsolete later is nothing new. There are dozens of other examples and one of the more recent ones is the Chultan Tiger which was a highly sought after companion. In the new mod it has been drastically reduced in importance. Not only that but to make the tiger shine in the new mod you will need other legendary beast companions to go with it. So now the tiger relies on having other things to make it worth having. This also brings in those artifact weapons they were selling in packs which are also now obsolete.
I could go on and on for days pointing out the items that cryptic has sold for on occasion a lot of cash that are now not worth even a fraction of their in game value. So its always buyer beware. If you are willing to give cryptic money, your mindset should be that you are wanting to support them as a company and keep the game live. Expecting items to maintain their value is something you have to complete get passed and forget about.
So although this new pack might not be worth the money, I still respect those players who pay for it. It keeps cryptic working on NW.
> Nothing in this game is worth a $150 real money. Now if you have saved up that much zen from ad exchange, fine go for it, but even then I personally think it's a ripoff.
>
> I only spend real money... hardly get 400 raw ad per day...
Don't run any dungeons? Would figure even a solo wasy dungeon would give you 3k or 4k in rough ad. I maxed a ton of salvage for rough AD before they scrapped that, so now I'm just going thru the 100k a day rturnover.
> > @demonmonger said:
> > Nothing in this game is worth a $150 real money. Now if you have saved up that much zen from ad exchange, fine go for it, but even then I personally think it's a ripoff.
> >
> > I only spend real money... hardly get 400 raw ad per day...
>
> Don't run any dungeons? Would figure even a solo wasy dungeon would give you 3k or 4k in rough ad. I maxed a ton of salvage for rough AD before they scrapped that, so now I'm just going thru the 100k a day rturnover.
I only have so much time to play during the day.... before I could spend 14 hours and wait for queues and fail maps with afk bots. Now I have 10 minutes at a time to play so most of my time will be waiting for group and having incomplete dungeons when my son 1 year old wakes up.
So I wait to buy out campaigns and play solo most of the time
Then there are the rest of us who have real life responsibilities, demanding jobs, a family, children, and even some semblance of a social life. There are a few days where I do spend quite a few hours playing the game and on those days there are projects around the house that don’t get done but I figure it’s a little cheaper than going out for a few drinks, buying tickets to a show or buying the most up to date paraphernalia for some of the hobbies I like… at least I used to feel that way.
From my limited experience on preview, and suspecting just about everything following the release of Mod16 is going to take even more time (did I mention I saw Mod 16 dungeon run on YouTube that took over 30 minutes with a party that had some really good, 22K+ gear?) and more money (umm, $150 for the Mod16 player's pack) than anything we’ve seen previously, I just might be spending a lot less time playing Neverwinter and much more spending time (and money) out socializing, with my hobbies or just puttering around the house doing some of those minor projects I’ve been putting off…
But we’ll see, I'm willing to give Mod16 a go... Since I survived Mod6 after thinking it would be the end of my Neverwintering, perhaps for all of my initial impressions of Mod16 it'll turn out to be 'not so bad' too ~
**But I'm still not spending $150 for the Delver's Expedition Pack!
SKT, Cloaked, ToD, Maze Engine -- pretty much every individual campaign buyout is gone but DR and Chult...
1) developer turnover. One of the reasons given for making the simplified system is coding something that is easy to fix, so that as developers come and go, it won't be coding that no one knows. IF the basis of the coding in mod 16 provides a platform on which bugs can be fixed (and even if the stat formulas are part of this), then that is a plus. Of the 3 versions of formulas in the game, mods 1-5 is still my favorite.
2) size of development team. This is a greater concern than point one, as they are working overtime to push this out, but I am concerned that the staff size is too small, even with easier coding, to handle the community when the influx happens into mod 16. This also impacts the future development of the game
3) monetization schemes. Budget cuts, turnover and small size is most likely due to cost saving measures (by attrition or layoffs...not gonna speculate). either way, introducing monetization into the game more aggressively with less payback or changes to encourage spending, are not tasteful. Of course, psychologically, #1 and #2 feed more into whether I will spend future money, if I think the game has a future, enough time so that the foundation laid can be built up.
4) accessibility for new players... there are multiple videos that show how accessibility destroys the psychological effect of having achieved something exclusive in the game through actually playing the game. My concern with mod 16, with the seal vendor in Undermountain and with the pack offering the 2nd best weapon set (???), is accessibility, so that content can be skipped. Warnings to devs that changes to boons now encourages even more one to skip content and go right to the end (path of least resistance), means that accessibility destroys exclusivity and desire to play. The changes to the classes in their most fundamental form ALSO makes exclusivity of game play a thing of the past, which is why I continue to feel dejected. Even in mod 6, I was able to make a build that was unique to address bugs to get groups through the dungeons (thanks Dekonia Moone for your Pally!). But, now there is no more difference between players. It is just raw stats and cosmetics, and a flattening at the top, which one can get to by skipping content. Thus, anything achieved up to this point sees no progress forward. And this is by design. Of all the things, this is what is the most difficult to swallow...a sense of accomplishment is going away. The design to target new players and give them instant access has the correlary side effect of destroying the old players. And this process will need to be followed ad infinitum ad nauseam as the new players get everything right away, hit the part where the % difference between the top and them is so flat that they wont want to stay. So, more new players are pulled in to rush, with a never ending cycle of rush to the flat top and leave.
In this vein, I am not excited for mod 16. But, it did not start with mod 16. It merely reached the tipping point. I still will not rush to leave, for the one reason that I have done the new campaign and enjoyed the story line and exploring, and the fights. I felt a little bit like a tank in mod 1, and having to learn to replay the Fighter was both frustrating and someone exciting. If....IF mod 16 is merely a base to build on, and there really is more coming in 17, 18, and 19...then I will just wait it out.
Cheers!
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
The problem is that the value of the boons diminish very rapidly when you have picked up the most important ones, so there is very little incentive to keep running campaigns to pick that last boon point.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
> I need to spend more time in preview, but so far all of this make me wanna set NW down for a awhile a pick up "A Tale of Two Cities", the book yes seriously. They're taking allthe cool stuff, stat rolls, boons, feat trees, and forcing everyone into a vanilla toon loadout. They're taking things that people have spent gobs of time and real cash acquiring(chultan tigers) and making them worthless. Every single change they have made has not been met with any positive feedback from what I have read lately. I certainly don't see any good from any of the changes they've made.
>
> My one and only demand for the devs:
>
> Just create the new content and leave everything else about the game alone. So it's a little unbalanced, thats gonna happen even in mod 16 when a few people figure out how to game the new system, and then we'll be right back here again a few mods down the road. I play on xbox most of the time, and once I finish getting my main the last of the boons, I'll probably just login to farm ad and my vip keys until that expires, at least if I don't see anything encouraging between now and mod 16 dropping on console... So far it looks like my pally is gonna be much harder to play in mod 16 than he is now. And he just got playable about 4 boons ago...
We already figured out the new system and what is bis... for each class...
> > @bobo#5090 said:
>
> > I need to spend more time in preview, but so far all of this make me wanna set NW down for a awhile a pick up "A Tale of Two Cities", the book yes seriously. They're taking allthe cool stuff, stat rolls, boons, feat trees, and forcing everyone into a vanilla toon loadout. They're taking things that people have spent gobs of time and real cash acquiring(chultan tigers) and making them worthless. Every single change they have made has not been met with any positive feedback from what I have read lately. I certainly don't see any good from any of the changes they've made.
>
> >
>
> > My one and only demand for the devs:
>
> >
>
> > Just create the new content and leave everything else about the game alone. So it's a little unbalanced, thats gonna happen even in mod 16 when a few people figure out how to game the new system, and then we'll be right back here again a few mods down the road. I play on xbox most of the time, and once I finish getting my main the last of the boons, I'll probably just login to farm ad and my vip keys until that expires, at least if I don't see anything encouraging between now and mod 16 dropping on console... So far it looks like my pally is gonna be much harder to play in mod 16 than he is now. And he just got playable about 4 boons ago...
>
>
>
> We already figured out the new system and what is bis... for each class...
>
> And just what is going to be BIS for mod 16 for a pally? As it appears to me now it will be to just set the pally aside and play as a SW, or CW. Or start over from scratch as a fighter or... assuming I'll be able to move all my enchants, except of of course my 2 r14s which are btc. Ones the anniversary enchant from last year, and the other the heart of fire from AI. Or I'll set the game down and find something else to do...
Whisper me in game @demonmongerchild