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Official M16: Wizard

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  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,702Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    @thefabricant



    Seeing as you gave into the fireball crowd, can you please lend your thoughts to help out a PvP wizard requesting that Repel be left as a shared encounter for both paths? 😄



    I don’t have access to preview or play PvE however you seem to understand the balance of things better than most. In your opinion, would there be any harm to PvE if the Devs implemented this change?



    Repel is a Wizards only defensive/strategic encounter for PvP and not having it available to both paths would lead to Arcanist being the only viable PvP path.



    I just need to know if I’m about to start beating my head against a brick wall or if it’s resonable to fight for it because it will have little to no adverse affect in PvE.

    It is already a shared power again @iamthelastpiller#8155, they changed that last patch.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    If Fireball is going to be the capstone encounter power, should add a prone effect.

    Too much?
  • ralf1835ralf1835 Posts: 18Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    If Fireball is going to be the capstone encounter power, should add a prone effect.

    Too much?

    they have a problem with making a new skill, You don't require too much from them but this is a good idea.

    @noworries#8859 I have a question for you.
    when you insert a description, what players ideas will be added to Wizard?


  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    ralf1835 said:

    If Fireball is going to be the capstone encounter power, should add a prone effect.

    Too much?

    they have a problem with making a new skill, You don't require too much from them but this is a good idea.

    @noworries#8859 I have a question for you.
    when you insert a description, what players ideas will be added to Wizard?


    My thought is, Chill Strike, but fire damage, and Prone instead of stun, and it's an AOE.

    Not sure if it's too much if that exists in the same skill set as Chill Strike, since that starts to be a lot of AOEs.
  • tenetombtenetomb Posts: 105Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 11
    First of all, thanks devs and Sharp for developping this class like this.
    It's overall well designed and it's one of the rare classes that only need minor tweaks.

    Thanks for putting Repel in both paths and Icy Veins in the Thaumaturge path. We now have multiple builds available and i really like the mechanics.

    Personally, i like Cataclysm and absolutely don't want a fire ball in my kit. SW already has it.
    Plus, Cataclysm requires some positioning, which is a more interesting gameplay than a static fire ball cast, imo.
    But even if i got okish results with it, i think it needs to have a better range to avoid general clunkyness.
    Tooltip says 35' but compared to Sudden Storm that has 30', in reality, Cataclysm strikes nearly half far than Sudden Storm.
    Make its range actually 35' (or at least 30') please.

    Now, for Arcanist : i really love the design of Arcane Empowerment !
    I wished something like this was implemented long ago.

    Problem is the general gameplay of this path : it feels just like mashing buttons to me.
    We don't have to think about what we do. We just have to spam arcane spells.
    I was trying to find something else that could be stacked, without breaking arcane gameplay but TheFabricant did it before me :

    1) Add a mechanic called charge, which has a duration of 5 seconds.
    2) When you damage an enemy with a lightning power, charge is applied.
    3) When you damage an enemy who is charged with an encounter or daily power, shock them, deal 80 magnitude damage.

    This helps to make lightning a mechanic in and of itself.

    1) Change Snap Freeze to Overcharge, which lowers the magnitude of charge 60, but allows at wills to shock charged enemies.
    2) Change Frigid Winds to Storm Brand, which increases your damage by 1% for each time you have shocked an enemy within the past 10 seconds, capping at 10%.


    I'd really love these ideas to be implemented because chill has nothing to do in this path (so 2 feats that depend on chill is worthless) and because on live, i like CW gameplay because we have a lot of things to manage. This is why our character is so interesting and i'd be disappointed with a class that you can play without a brain.

    And last point : for me, Arcane bolt has no real identity. As it is now, it just steals Arcane Missiles job, with a slower arcane stacks generation but with higher magnitude.
    It'd be better to have a different at-will that has its own purpose but i can think about it as much as i want, i can't find anything new for PVE, as we already have an at-will for each element... If anybody has an idea for this...

    But i have an idea for pvp :
    Change this at-will to a personal buff (no hit anymore).
    Give it a charging time of 1,5 sec.
    When CW is charging Arcarne Bolt, it can't be controlled.
    Cw can only benefit from this buff every 15 sec. (Counting from the start of the charge)
    Keep the animation of the 4th hit but over the CW's head.

    Conclusion :

    - Make Cataclysm range actually 35'.
    - Think about the charge mechanic.
    - Find a real identity to Arcane Bolt.


    - Cataclysm has a visual bug that makes the animation strikes to the left, when cast it in the middle of a rotation.
    - Critical burn feat buff to smolder crit damage only affects smolder and not rimefire, while other powers with the same wording (Glowing flames feat and Swath of destruction class feature) affect both.
  • pteriaspterias Posts: 661Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I'm not sure some folks grasp the full concept of "Fireball" and why some of us like the idea so much. It's not supposed to be a Firebolt or a Firepuff. It's not Chill Strike but with fire and no, the Warlock doesn't already have it. It's a gigantic, 40' ball of fire blowing the hamster out of everything!!! Really, to do it in its full glory, it should be a daily power (which it was back in 4E), but I'd take what I can get.
  • skuallpwskuallpw Posts: 35Member Arc User
    pterias said:

    I'm not sure some folks grasp the full concept of "Fireball" and why some of us like the idea so much. It's not supposed to be a Firebolt or a Firepuff. It's not Chill Strike but with fire and no, the Warlock doesn't already have it. It's a gigantic, 40' ball of fire blowing the hamster out of everything!!! Really, to do it in its full glory, it should be a daily power (which it was back in 4E), but I'd take what I can get.

    add a genkidama animation lol
  • slayertrgslayertrg Posts: 2Member Arc User
    edited March 12

    I see people refer to Fanning the Flame as an AOE. It IS NOT. At the moment, it is a single target and the flames do not spread to anyone else. It is a single target spell at the moment, whether it is in the mastery tab or not.

    It is an AoE.




    Fanned Flame and Gathering Flame are the AoE portion. To apply them, you first need to apply smoulder to a target. Maybe a basic reading of the tooltip followed by actually trying to do what it says would show you this.
    I do not mean to be the bearer of bad news, but Fanning the Flame is not scaling very well. Even in perfect scenarios it is appearing to make up less than a fraction of damage compared to class mechanics such as applying numerous Smolders with Directed Flames. Overall, this insignificance is a reoccurring theme with many encounters feeling they have no impact on gameplay despite this mod's concept of the re-scaling revolving around this longer cool-downs with more impact. This needs to be addressed immediately, especially in class themed encounters that feel lackluster across the board like in the Arcanist's given encounter "Sudden Storm" whose low damage scaling is by no means remotely justified by its ability to refresh chill and arcane stacks....which it also does poorly.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Posts: 1,056Member Arc User
    With the recent changes, using Storm Spell seems like a completely bad idea.

    I do not see "Arcanist" path as something that people wanted. I do remember people wanting "Elementalist", but not "Arcanist".

    In the process of making an "Arcanist", entire purpose of Storm Spell got lost in the process, alongside with the ability to critically strike. It was a perfect way to play a Wizard.

    As people got used to constantly play with Disintegrate/Ice Knife combo, they forgot how it was to actually play a SpellStorm. This is why Storm Spell didn't get any love in MOD16 in my opinion.

    Storm Spell needs a total overhaul due to this fact and an overhaul that will make it actually useful. It should proc way more often. I do not understand the agenda to remove its usefulness and put Arcane above it.

    Lightning is lightning. It's de facto Crit value-friendly. It shouldn't be otherwise.
    True Neutral
  • skuallpwskuallpw Posts: 35Member Arc User

    With the recent changes, using Storm Spell seems like a completely bad idea.

    I do not see "Arcanist" path as something that people wanted. I do remember people wanting "Elementalist", but not "Arcanist".

    In the process of making an "Arcanist", entire purpose of Storm Spell got lost in the process, alongside with the ability to critically strike. It was a perfect way to play a Wizard.

    As people got used to constantly play with Disintegrate/Ice Knife combo, they forgot how it was to actually play a SpellStorm. This is why Storm Spell didn't get any love in MOD16 in my opinion.

    Storm Spell needs a total overhaul due to this fact and an overhaul that will make it actually useful. It should proc way more often. I do not understand the agenda to remove its usefulness and put Arcane above it.

    Lightning is lightning. It's de facto Crit value-friendly. It shouldn't be otherwise.

    yep , Storm spell needs love , u can do so many things with an "arcane" mage , almost anything , add some lightning for eye candy .
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,188Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 12
    We used to have diversity with three trees and 2 paragons.
    You took it away and you replaced it ( for all classes) with non interesting feats at all, a 4 years old kid can copy paste builds with the new system.
    The combat is boring since you removed the recovery. IF The ap was the problem then why you didnt remove the ap gain from recovery?
    Without recovery the gameplay is predictable i can give instructions to 4 years old kid how to play.
    In top of that you removed buffs.................
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    pterias said:

    I'm not sure some folks grasp the full concept of "Fireball" and why some of us like the idea so much. It's not supposed to be a Firebolt or a Firepuff. It's not Chill Strike but with fire and no, the Warlock doesn't already have it. It's a gigantic, 40' ball of fire blowing the hamster out of everything!!! Really, to do it in its full glory, it should be a daily power (which it was back in 4E), but I'd take what I can get.

    It was hot garbage in 4E. For a controller, an AOE daily that has no non-damage component that doesn't even recurringly deal damage over time (damaging zone), it was a trap choice.

    I guess you could just rename Furious Immolation.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 292Member Arc User
    edited March 12
    If we go with fireball, is there anyway it can be a "charged" fireball? A 3-second charge-up for a "growing radius of effect. Tap for single target only. This would be very "Wizardly", and give opponents a chance to flee or interrupt the caster during an AoE 3-second cast.
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Posts: 290Member Arc User
    Change Cataclysm to Burning Hands, or Fireball please.

  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Change Cataclysm to Burning Hands, or Fireball please.

    Burning Hands as the capstone encounter power is worse than just keeping Cataclysm as is from a stylistic standpoint.

    Fireball is a real need though. The player base is going to constantly ask for it until it happens.

    As an encounter power. If you wanna drop a fire daily power, you use Meteor Swarm (unfortunately, you can't just rename Furious Immolation meteor swarm, so I don't think that'll ever happen).
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Posts: 1,056Member Arc User
    edited March 13
    I think that conceptually the one class that lost the most in the all changes throughout the years is most definitely a Wizard.

    The essence of playing as a Wizard was always multiprocing, but since that was a big no-no for Wizard (yet other classes seemed not to have any problem with multiprocing everything on top of everything) I guess we have to do what we have to do...

    The Arsenal of choice and ability to adapt to each situation is now limited, I do agree. In fact, it is extremely limited. But not completely useless.

    I think that the best way to go around this is to make each at-will of Wizard to hit at least 0.3 faster, i.e. 30% faster. Especially chilling cloud.

    All At-Wills should be useful in combination with the Features and choices to pick from. Especially now where there are even less powers to choose from. It should be fairly easy to do it.

    This whole "Arcanist" thing seems completely misplaced, I just can't put a finger on it, but it feels like some sloppy fanfiction.
    True Neutral
  • pteriaspterias Posts: 661Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    pterias said:

    I'm not sure some folks grasp the full concept of "Fireball" and why some of us like the idea so much. It's not supposed to be a Firebolt or a Firepuff. It's not Chill Strike but with fire and no, the Warlock doesn't already have it. It's a gigantic, 40' ball of fire blowing the hamster out of everything!!! Really, to do it in its full glory, it should be a daily power (which it was back in 4E), but I'd take what I can get.

    It was hot garbage in 4E. For a controller, an AOE daily that has no non-damage component that doesn't even recurringly deal damage over time (damaging zone), it was a trap choice.
    Thankfully, we're not Controllers anymore, we're all Evokers now. In 5E, Fireball isn't a trap choice, it's a "you learn Fireball at 5th level or you're intentionally Wizarding wrong" like it always used to be.

    I've got a fever, and the only cure is more FIREBALL!!!

  • novaiidbzii#7952 novaiidbzii Posts: 44Member Arc User
    Do not remove Furious Immolation for Meteor Swarm.
    If anything I think Ice Storm, should be replaced with Meteor Swarm. Cataclysm to be replaced with Fireball.
    And Sharps idea for "charges" for lightning based spells for wizards
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Do not remove Furious Immolation for Meteor Swarm.
    If anything I think Ice Storm, should be replaced with Meteor Swarm. Cataclysm to be replaced with Fireball.
    And Sharps idea for "charges" for lightning based spells for wizards

    Good call-Ice Storm is icon, but less so than Meteor Swarm. Only problem is you start to get into the territory where too many of the spells are fire based and not enough are ice based. But no one's going to program Meteor Swarm-it'd be a pain to design, balance, and implement, and actually WOULD require entirely new art assets, so that's basically a big N O right there.
  • novaiidbzii#7952 novaiidbzii Posts: 44Member Arc User

    Do not remove Furious Immolation for Meteor Swarm.
    If anything I think Ice Storm, should be replaced with Meteor Swarm. Cataclysm to be replaced with Fireball.
    And Sharps idea for "charges" for lightning based spells for wizards

    Good call-Ice Storm is icon, but less so than Meteor Swarm. Only problem is you start to get into the territory where too many of the spells are fire based and not enough are ice based. But no one's going to program Meteor Swarm-it'd be a pain to design, balance, and implement, and actually WOULD require entirely new art assets, so that's basically a big N O right there.
    It wouldn't require "entirely new art assets" when the animations, and art assets are already in the game, and have been used by other NPC's throughout the game, most notably, through Mount Hotenow, The Chasm, The Duergar, and Illusionist Gambit.
  • novaiidbzii#7952 novaiidbzii Posts: 44Member Arc User

    Do not remove Furious Immolation for Meteor Swarm.
    If anything I think Ice Storm, should be replaced with Meteor Swarm. Cataclysm to be replaced with Fireball.
    And Sharps idea for "charges" for lightning based spells for wizards

    Good call-Ice Storm is icon, but less so than Meteor Swarm. Only problem is you start to get into the territory where too many of the spells are fire based and not enough are ice based. But no one's going to program Meteor Swarm-it'd be a pain to design, balance, and implement, and actually WOULD require entirely new art assets, so that's basically a big N O right there.
    It wouldn't require "entirely new art assets" when the animations, and art assets are already in the game, and have been used by other NPC's throughout the game, most notably, through Mount Hotenow, The Chasm, The Duergar, and Illusionist Gambit.
    There's even "Lakes of Lava" which I call it, which could be perfect for a Wizard, if not Meteor Swarm. Another spell already used in game countless times. It shouldn't be hard, (not saying that it cannot be) to take something from an NPC and put it on a new class. As Thomas, Lead Developer stated. "If I can make a fake Druid, I can make a real one" Implying that if he can create fake classes, or classes with other ability and spells, what's stopping him from doing it in real game, if he can already create a preliminary one for NPCs.
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,757Member Arc User
    I get the hankering for Fireball, but replacing Cataclysm with it instead of some slightly more impressive power would be unfortunate.

    "Phew, I've finally reached the limit of my knowledge and experience as a Wizard, and I finally get to learn...this 3rd level spell."

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  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,757Member Arc User

    Do not remove Furious Immolation for Meteor Swarm.
    If anything I think Ice Storm, should be replaced with Meteor Swarm. Cataclysm to be replaced with Fireball.
    And Sharps idea for "charges" for lightning based spells for wizards

    Good call-Ice Storm is icon, but less so than Meteor Swarm. Only problem is you start to get into the territory where too many of the spells are fire based and not enough are ice based. But no one's going to program Meteor Swarm-it'd be a pain to design, balance, and implement, and actually WOULD require entirely new art assets, so that's basically a big N O right there.
    It wouldn't require "entirely new art assets" when the animations, and art assets are already in the game, and have been used by other NPC's throughout the game, most notably, through Mount Hotenow, The Chasm, The Duergar, and Illusionist Gambit.
    There's even "Lakes of Lava" which I call it, which could be perfect for a Wizard, if not Meteor Swarm. Another spell already used in game countless times. It shouldn't be hard, (not saying that it cannot be) to take something from an NPC and put it on a new class. As Thomas, Lead Developer stated. "If I can make a fake Druid, I can make a real one" Implying that if he can create fake classes, or classes with other ability and spells, what's stopping him from doing it in real game, if he can already create a preliminary one for NPCs.
    Red Wizards are so much cooler than we are. Sure, their animation times are slow as molasses to allow players to react, but they definitely have the visual pizazz that the player character Wizards are largely missing. The least flashy spells are some of the most useful, while some of the most visually interesting spells (prime example: Arcane Singularity) are nearly useless.

    I'm actually having fun with Wizard in M16, but I have to admit that there's opportunity to up the style game.
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    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    vorphied said:

    I get the hankering for Fireball, but replacing Cataclysm with it instead of some slightly more impressive power would be unfortunate.

    "Phew, I've finally reached the limit of my knowledge and experience as a Wizard, and I finally get to learn...this 3rd level spell."

    From a 5E standpoint, 20th level is when the Wizard gets "signature spell" which lets them cast a 3rd level spell 1/short rest instead of using spell slots.

    That's roughly equivalent to an encounter power.
  • skuallpwskuallpw Posts: 35Member Arc User
    edited March 14

    Do not remove Furious Immolation for Meteor Swarm.
    If anything I think Ice Storm, should be replaced with Meteor Swarm. Cataclysm to be replaced with Fireball.
    And Sharps idea for "charges" for lightning based spells for wizards

    Good call-Ice Storm is icon, but less so than Meteor Swarm. Only problem is you start to get into the territory where too many of the spells are fire based and not enough are ice based. But no one's going to program Meteor Swarm-it'd be a pain to design, balance, and implement, and actually WOULD require entirely new art assets, so that's basically a big N O right there.
    It wouldn't require "entirely new art assets" when the animations, and art assets are already in the game, and have been used by other NPC's throughout the game, most notably, through Mount Hotenow, The Chasm, The Duergar, and Illusionist Gambit.
    there are tons of "npc spells" and what not , plenty of assets already

    example of fireball:




    when u play a wizard flashy and cool spells are in the pack period.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 992Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    the arcanist
    daily power at level 80 looks good but with the ap gain nerfs is a mess to aim for that on boss fights it should have been better as a wizard capstone feat at level 80(wizards trancend when casting a daily power increasing their recharge speed, buff their damage, while transcend wizard cant gain ap.)
    on arcanist you will have max arcane mastery stacks but the chill stacks will be low because arcanist doesn't have conduit of ice to build chill stacks(in mod 15 conduit of ice is ss encounter to build chill stacks) you changed chill strike for repell when you should have put conduit of ice for arcanist to build chill stacks.

    on thaum
    you no longer need ftf ontab key to spread smolder, which was the fun of that power on tab key, seeing a enemies spread damage (a must for this power please turn it back with spell mastery slot), while using icy terrain as they enter my surrounding and i am using chilling cloud to spread chill stacks(chilling cloud no longer adds chill stack btw, and no longer debuff enemy outgoing damage, these 2 nerfs for this at-will is so bad and need to be put like the original), have steal time and desintegrate for last one/s standing(instead we get ray of efeeblement(this one will benefit more arcanist than taum),

    ftf now automatically apply smolder(single target) use coi on mobs around main target cast scorch to apply smolder and let ftf spread damage to others due to incandescence flames feat,
    entangled force on tab key is not pulling mobs groups together the strengt is to low(we need spell mastery on tab for this to work), i had to handle it the traditional way, with coi on tab, icy terrain, new thaum encounter power(which needs to be similar to a cone of flame), icy terrain, entagle force to proc controlled momentum, and switch between chill cloud and scorch to proc the feat were using ice power boost next fire move damage by 10% and vice versa, with swath + chiling presence class feature thaum is mostly smolder+chill stack, arcane stacks are useless on thaum path(so we need steal time as a shared encounter power or get us spell mastery on tab key for entangled force to build arcane mastery stacks on aoe),

    also a danger decision(bad decision in my opinion) you all made, from level 1 to level 80 player can only choose 5 feats, you should have thought better and made it 9 feats choice (16 feats were you can only pick 8+ 1 that is the class/paragon capstone feat)
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 2,826Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 15
    I'm really concerned about the cooldown for Icy Terrain. My CW is a CC build and making the cooldown so high really kicks her ability to survive in the teeth. On live she relies on an astronomical Recovery so she can keep enemies controlled when soloing, but now her CC is woefully inadequate. Not all of us like to play as pure DPS! Honestly, if this is how it's going to be, playing my CW is really going to suck.
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  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 292Member Arc User
    edited March 15
    The features are so impotent that Spellstorm is the only one I notice now. I'm running through with Spellstorm, Icy Terrain, and Steal Time doing all the work. Of course i have to use at-will to clean up. The other two encounters dont matter. I've tried every combo.. and nothing seems to add anything significant. I've been puttin Disintigrate on mastery (Repel just scatters my enemies), and using Sudden Storm which does nothing much, but its AoE. In my opinion, in the first three levels of undermountain, enemies should be doing about 10% more damage. I am running Wiggins as my companion. I used a Heal Stone one time so far. I selected the healing at-will boon, which seems to be enough to counter all damage. The capstone LVL-74 encounter skill seems useless. Does it even work?
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 292Member Arc User
    edited March 23
    (removed out-dated skill suggestions)
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
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