Feedback I would strongly recommand to swap Arcanist Tier 2 (top) Feat - Icy Veins with Taumaturge Tier 2 (top) - Snap Freeze. The reason is obvious. Thaumaturge hardly relys on chillstacks, smoulder and rimfire mixup, so having additional source of chill would be a bless. From the other hand plaing Arcanist that doesnt need chill at all because focusing on arcane mastery is much much more important, the obvious choise is to ignore Icy Veins. In my opinion having Icy Veins on Thaumaturge is crutial, in addition it would be a very nice decision dilemma on having Icy Veins or Glowing Flames.
I am curious to hear how other players feel about this suggestions.
I don't see why you would ever want to use Arcane Bolt as a viable at-will. The cooldown time on it compared to Magic Missile and Ray of Frost makes it not something I would ever choose. I like the animation for it and it looks really neat, just not that it takes (what feels like) forever to cast.
If I'm standing really far away from a group and another party member/my companion is attacking I can sit back and hold the button down and watch it hit the groups from afar, but currently I'm struggling to keep it on the bar as my second at-will. In in-your-face battles it just feels slow and clunky and like I can't get my at-wills off before I die. If the thought is to use your at-wills in between your Encounters (which admittedly have some lengthy cooldowns) the at-wills should feel fast, not slower than slow.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Encounter usage for all classes will be slower than what it is on live for high recovery characters, this is intentional.
While we are open to adjusting cooldowns of specific powers a little bit, we aren't planning to reduce them all down to fast casts. Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage.
Also all classes have had powers split between paragon paths.
As for spell mastery, if there are specific ones people would like to see come back we can discuss that. I want to make sure people know how that would work. If Chill Strike spell mastery is that it hits multiple targets, the damage from spell mastery would be cut to 1/3rd of what it is for non-mastery single target. It wouldn't just be the same damage against multiple targets.
I do see players in all threads testing their new class designs in different content, which is great, but it is important to separate where the content isn't balanced vs where the class isn't. Castle Never has a couple of balance issues currently, one of which is the health of the zombies that walk into the spheres. That is a dungeon balance issue. Dread Ring is also currently scaling players too much.
The more specific the feedback we receive, the more likely we can action on it.
Feedback that is along the lines of: "I don't like the powers split between the paragon paths" tells us you don't like it, but doesn't give specifics on which powers you'd like to see moved around.
Where as Feedback such as: "I think this feat from Arcanist should be swapped with this feat from Thaumaturge" gives us a direct point of consideration to work with.
I can say that on live I run Chill Strike in mastery because I really like having a one click (as opposed to two click like Shard of the Endless Cast Animation) AOE I can enter with. So it'd be nice to have that stick around.
While I totally get the not wanting to have cooldowns be so short you use the same encounter powers constantly instead of at-wills, there's no reason you can't have instant cooldown for powers outside of combat. Why should players have to wait around 30 seconds every time they nuke a series of mobs just to get their encounter powers back? Yeah, maybe it incentivizes them to use their at-wills instead, but it also incentivizes more cautious players to do *literally nothing* which is IMO bad game design.
The build I play on live is a "run into the field, AOE everything to death, move on" build. I enjoy it, but I can only do that as a CW because of how heavily I'm geared, and because I don't run group content. I'd like to be able to keep the same strategy for normal leveling, but group content probably shouldn't be tailored to making that sort of AOE DPS solo build playable. Of course, that's what loadouts are for.
Mostly though, I think people are sore because they really really wanted to see D&D classics Fireball and Lightning Bolt in the game. Personally I don't get why it's not Elementalist (with Fire/Cold/Lightning-could also call it Evoker) and Arcanist (with raw energy type spells like Ray of Enfeeblement and Disintegrate).
It might help if every class had a blog writeup that explained the direction of the respective Paragon Paths because as is, I'm scratching my head asking what exactly the dev team was going for.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Encounter usage for all classes will be slower than what it is on live for high recovery characters, this is intentional.
While we are open to adjusting cooldowns of specific powers a little bit, we aren't planning to reduce them all down to fast casts. Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage.
Also all classes have had powers split between paragon paths.
As for spell mastery, if there are specific ones people would like to see come back we can discuss that. I want to make sure people know how that would work. If Chill Strike spell mastery is that it hits multiple targets, the damage from spell mastery would be cut to 1/3rd of what it is for non-mastery single target. It wouldn't just be the same damage against multiple targets.
I do see players in all threads testing their new class designs in different content, which is great, but it is important to separate where the content isn't balanced vs where the class isn't. Castle Never has a couple of balance issues currently, one of which is the health of the zombies that walk into the spheres. That is a dungeon balance issue. Dread Ring is also currently scaling players too much.
The more specific the feedback we receive, the more likely we can action on it.
Feedback that is along the lines of: "I don't like the powers split between the paragon paths" tells us you don't like it, but doesn't give specifics on which powers you'd like to see moved around.
Where as Feedback such as: "I think this feat from Arcanist should be swapped with this feat from Thaumaturge" gives us a direct point of consideration to work with.
Actually, let me parse this:
Are cooldowns supposed to be higher than what it is on live for LOW recovery characters?
Are cooldowns supposed to be higher than what it is on live for LOW recovery characters?
I don't believe that any of the Wizard's base cooldowns were increased in these changes.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
ALL feats are useless.For example chaos magic has 10% chance to proc and it never procs.ANother example is nighmater wizardry has 10% chance to proc and also it never procs. There is no difference between a wizard with feats and without feats.
While we are open to adjusting cooldowns of specific powers a little bit, we aren't planning to reduce them all down to fast casts. Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage.
about Fanning the Flame long cooldown 20 sec , low dmg 80 magnitude and and where is what you wrote about above.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Are cooldowns supposed to be higher than what it is on live for LOW recovery characters?
I don't believe that any of the Wizard's base cooldowns were increased in these changes.
Well, on live, my 12.6k recovery build has a 92.3% recovery speed boost, of which only 63.3% is from recovery.
On preview, using all the same gear, my recovery speed is only 10%-meaning non-recovery based cooldown speed enhancement fell by something like 20%.
Given that reduction in cooldowns everything looks normal with one huge exception:
Icy Terrain went from 6.6 second cooldown to 17.2. By my calculations, it should be 11.5 seconds, all else equal. Or was Icy Terrain in particular just made to have a much much slower cooldown? (Or is there some Icy Terrain speedup feat I'm forgetting?)
The casting time for the new Arcanist at-will, Arcane Bolts, makes it almost worthless. Why would I use it when Magic Missile and Ray of Frost hit faster and are generally more effective?
The damage of Disintegrate seriously needs a boost (and honestly all of the encounters seem rather underwhelming damagewise. Especially when I see the dps Cleric with an 800 base magnitude encounter that gets to the point of being nearly equivalent to the Wizards strongest daily power.
I am completely unable to equip the Chilling Cloud at-will despite having it unlocked.
Critical Hits should be calculated per hit on 'Ticking' Powers like Conduit of Ice, Oppressive Force, Steal Time and Icy Terrain. Spell Mastery: It would be nice if it had a bonus that reduces cooldown times of powers. For example, when you activate a power in the Spell Mastery slot, it will halve the current time remaining on the powers that are currently on cool down. The reason behind this is because Spell Mastery just seems like another encounter power. It doesn't have no real game changing mechanic. It would also be nice if you brought back the Spell Mastery bonuses for some of the other powers. The new At Will, Arcane Bolt, should have a much shorter casting time, similar to Magic Missile to complete its full hit combo. In its current state its horrible to use. Its final Hit(s) should be a mini AOE attack. The new Encounter Power, Cataclysm, isn't great, it doesn't feel at all Powerful. Hits only a few targets in a small area. Not sure why anyone would use it. Should be reworked a power that hits over a wider area. Storm Spell: With the changes to Critical Hits and Counter Stats, Storm Spell should be made to have a 30% Chance to proc on all damage, not just Critical Hits. It should also be made to be a Mechanic like Smoulder. Maelstrom of Chaos takes to long to cast. Conduit of Ice should be swapped with Entangling Force on the Arcanist Path. Conduit of Ice has a nice synergy with Storm Spell, which is why it should be put on that path. Striking Advantage (Feat) doesn't feel right. It doesn't do enough damage to make any difference and doesn't scale with debuffs.
Bugs:
Maelstrom of Chaos isn't usable at 50% AP like the tooltip says. Steal Time: Still doesn't proc the % part of weapon the enchantments.
So far I am enjoying MOD16's Wizard a lot. Content-wise and Class-wise. Playing as Arcanist at the moment. I have no issue defeating any enemy nor troubles in dungeons. The game seems overly balanced to me now.
At-will : Fast (Low dps) Encounter : Medium (Medium to high dps) Daily : Slow (High dps)
The game feels more tactical now and it isn't as challenging as before in terms of glass canon gameplay style. I actually had to approach each enemy with a bit of care and strategy, which made me remember days of playing Warcraft. It feels nice and I am content with the changes as I know this is just the beginning and progress will follow.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
So far I am enjoying MOD16's Wizard a lot. Content-wise and Class-wise. Playing as Arcanist at the moment. I have no issue defeating any enemy nor troubles in dungeons. The game seems overly balanced to me now.
At-will : Fast (Low dps) Encounter : Medium (Medium to high dps) Daily : Slow (High dps)
The game feels more tactical now and it isn't as challenging as before in terms of glass canon gameplay style. I actually had to approach each enemy with a bit of care and strategy, which made me remember days of playing Warcraft. It feels nice and I am content with the changes as I know this is just the beginning and progress will follow.
I mean "be tactical *or else*" is a huge change in tone from previous installments. If that's working as intended then hooray I guess, but I had assumed the goal wasn't to isolate all of the casual players.
As @noworries#8859 has said, "Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage." It is my understanding that spell magnitude is the damage multiplier for the spell. Let's look at spell magnitude and base casting times. I understand the larger cooldowns for an AOE based spell, but that would only be steal time and icy terrain. Fanning the Flame is no longer AOE as it only applies smolder to a single target and no longer spreads. Also, any debuffs from spells previously are gone.
Am I missing something here?
Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
While we are open to adjusting cooldowns of specific powers a little bit, we aren't planning to reduce them all down to fast casts. Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage.
about Fanning the Flame long cooldown 20 sec , low dmg 80 magnitude and and where is what you wrote about above.
Fanning the Flame is very strong for AoE. The "only" 80 magnitude is deceptive, it does a lot more relative to everything else on trash due to how quickly it proliferates smolder.
While we are open to adjusting cooldowns of specific powers a little bit, we aren't planning to reduce them all down to fast casts. Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage.
about Fanning the Flame long cooldown 20 sec , low dmg 80 magnitude and and where is what you wrote about above.
Fanning the Flame is very strong for AoE. The "only" 80 magnitude is deceptive, it does a lot more relative to everything else on trash due to how quickly it proliferates smolder.
I kind of feel like the game should just rename FtF to "Fireball" and "Sudden Storm" to "Lightning Bolt"
Though, Fireball doesn't seem like a DOT to me, so maybe not.
As @noworries#8859 has said, "Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage." It is my understanding that spell magnitude is the damage multiplier for the spell. Let's look at spell magnitude and base casting times. I understand the larger cooldowns for an AOE based spell, but that would only be steal time and icy terrain. Fanning the Flame is no longer AOE as it only applies smolder to a single target and no longer spreads. Also, any debuffs from spells previously are gone.
It wasn't a statement to say that the only factor in damage is the cooldown, but instead that damage is directly linked to cooldown so if a given power has its cooldown lowered or raised, the damage would also be raised or lowered.
What other effects a power does, if it is multi-target vs single target, how it plays into other combos/features/feats, are all things that also influence the magnitude of a power.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
As @noworries#8859 has said, "Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage." It is my understanding that spell magnitude is the damage multiplier for the spell. Let's look at spell magnitude and base casting times. I understand the larger cooldowns for an AOE based spell, but that would only be steal time and icy terrain. Fanning the Flame is no longer AOE as it only applies smolder to a single target and no longer spreads. Also, any debuffs from spells previously are gone.
It wasn't a statement to say that the only factor in damage is the cooldown, but instead that damage is directly linked to cooldown so if a given power has its cooldown lowered or raised, the damage would also be raised or lowered.
What other effects a power does, if it is multi-target vs single target, how it plays into other combos/features/feats, are all things that also influence the magnitude of a power.
I just want a ranged AOE option that doesn't take a billion years to cast. Something like Shard of the Endless Avalanche but ... not that. Something like how Icy Terrain functions on live while in spell mastery. Maybe. A simple fireball. It's the classic, but 16 mods later, Wizards still don't have the most fundamental blaster spell.
It's a failure in understanding the core of the licensed IP! Though to be fair, back in 4E, Fireball was an abjectly *awful* spell, so I can understand why it wasn't implemented back then.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,092Arc User
I am completely unable to equip the Chilling Cloud at-will despite having it unlocked.
Were you being bolstered? Ran into that issue. Unlocked Cloud due to being bolstered, but couldn't equip it until I had actually leveled up again.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
As @noworries#8859 has said, "Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage." It is my understanding that spell magnitude is the damage multiplier for the spell. Let's look at spell magnitude and base casting times. I understand the larger cooldowns for an AOE based spell, but that would only be steal time and icy terrain. Fanning the Flame is no longer AOE as it only applies smolder to a single target and no longer spreads. Also, any debuffs from spells previously are gone.
Am I missing something here?
The quintecence of everyting that Wizard is, not woking as intended... the diagram shows that you messed your assumption. Please, we beg you, we dont wanna miracles... we just want a working class... with unique mechanics of masteries... we dont need to be top dps, top class, we dont wanna be a must have in a game... we just wanna be a working class that CAN be a part of party to dungeon, not a MUST HAVE, but a working class that can adjust performance in party. #DontMessWizard
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
From what I could tell during the 5th week of the playtest, CW was the 3rd strongest dps, behind TR and HR. It was not behind by much either, only ~10%. The class does work and the paths are unique. I suggest levelling to 80 and trying out complete builds before giving any judgement. Like the saying goes in Neverwinter, the game only begins at level 80.
As @noworries#8859 has said, "Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage." It is my understanding that spell magnitude is the damage multiplier for the spell. Let's look at spell magnitude and base casting times. I understand the larger cooldowns for an AOE based spell, but that would only be steal time and icy terrain. Fanning the Flame is no longer AOE as it only applies smolder to a single target and no longer spreads. Also, any debuffs from spells previously are gone.
Am I missing something here?
The quintecence of everyting that Wizard is, not woking as intended... the diagram shows that you messed your assumption. Please, we beg you, we dont wanna miracles... we just want a working class... with unique mechanics of masteries... we dont need to be top dps, top class, we dont wanna be a must have in a game... we just wanna be a working class that CAN be a part of party to dungeon, not a MUST HAVE, but a working class that can adjust performance in party. #DontMessWizard
Well, given that in D&D the Wizard basically has a history as being alternately
A.) The spellcaster toolbox (which makes no sense in an MMO) or B.) The guy who casts the spells that makes lots of badguys fall down,
Wizard should be THE best AOE DPS, but probably not the best single target DPS. They should on average be more fragile than other DPS units, but be able to function effectively at range, and excel when enemies are positioned "just so."
The current build doesn't really do that. Most AOEs (Steal Time, Icy Terrain) are what we in 4E parlance would call "Close burst." This works well for aiming powers, but it basically breaks every other conceptual aspect of a Wizard.
A wizard class should be able to create swathes of destruction. Give me Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Cone of Cold, not old 4E powers that weren't very good reflections of those powers seven years ago, much less so now.
So my breakdown would be- Thaumaturge/Elementalist: Has Fire, Cold, and Lightning. Specializes in AOE and dealing damage directly. Fanning the Flames replaced with a Fireball (circle based ranged AOE), Icy Terrain replaced with Cone of Cold (decent sized cone), Sudden Storm replaced with Lightning Bolt (literally just changing the name of the power). Add the word Greater in front of Ice Storm maybe? Give us an 80th level Meteor Swarm daily maybe. Arcanist: Has more arcane powers, and focuses on control effects like Steal Time and Shard of the Endless Avalanche, but is still capable of dealing good DPS. Imprisonment can stay but probably shouldn't cause the target to take 0 damage. Ray of Enfeeblement works fine. Entangling Force is fine. Basically this build just needs to remove the lightning stuff I guess.
I would also rename Entangling Force to Telekinesis. Basically, rename powers to match their 5E D&D closest equivalents: I think that'd help with establishing the game's product identity.
As @noworries#8859 has said, "Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage." It is my understanding that spell magnitude is the damage multiplier for the spell. Let's look at spell magnitude and base casting times. I understand the larger cooldowns for an AOE based spell, but that would only be steal time and icy terrain. Fanning the Flame is no longer AOE as it only applies smolder to a single target and no longer spreads. Also, any debuffs from spells previously are gone.
Am I missing something here?
The quintecence of everyting that Wizard is, not woking as intended... the diagram shows that you messed your assumption. Please, we beg you, we dont wanna miracles... we just want a working class... with unique mechanics of masteries... we dont need to be top dps, top class, we dont wanna be a must have in a game... we just wanna be a working class that CAN be a part of party to dungeon, not a MUST HAVE, but a working class that can adjust performance in party. #DontMessWizard
Well, given that in D&D the Wizard basically has a history as being alternately
A.) The spellcaster toolbox (which makes no sense in an MMO) or B.) The guy who casts the spells that makes lots of badguys fall down,
Wizard should be THE best AOE DPS, but probably not the best single target DPS. They should on average be more fragile than other DPS units, but be able to function effectively at range, and excel when enemies are positioned "just so."
The current build doesn't really do that. Most AOEs (Steal Time, Icy Terrain) are what we in 4E parlance would call "Close burst." This works well for aiming powers, but it basically breaks every other conceptual aspect of a Wizard.
A wizard class should be able to create swathes of destruction. Give me Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Cone of Cold, not old 4E powers that weren't very good reflections of those powers seven years ago, much less so now.
My concern with the argument that classes like Wizard should be best AoE DPS is that this game, at least since some years back and going through M15, does not highly value AoE DPS capability. Every class in the game has been adequate for killing dungeon trash, and no one has cared if trash took a few seconds longer to kill if they could shave minutes off of a boss fight.
Unless the best AoE DPS also happens to be either a highly valuable utility character or a very strong single-target DPS, parties don't want it.
This game also has a history of rewarding tight grouping and severely punishing ranged attack styles. Even with the downfall of the buff meta that appears to be a given with M16, it seems doubtful that players will discover some benefit to ranged gameplay. If anything, parties are likely to want to stay close together for healing, defensive buffs, and miscellaneous reasons.
All of the above is why I hope never to see the CW or any other class defined as a Trash Hero since that usually means that low boss damage becomes the tradeoff. I also don't want to see increased focus on targeted ranged powers when the archetypal mage hurling spells from a hilltop isn't a thing that works in this game.
As @noworries#8859 has said, "Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage." It is my understanding that spell magnitude is the damage multiplier for the spell. Let's look at spell magnitude and base casting times. I understand the larger cooldowns for an AOE based spell, but that would only be steal time and icy terrain. Fanning the Flame is no longer AOE as it only applies smolder to a single target and no longer spreads. Also, any debuffs from spells previously are gone.
Am I missing something here?
The quintecence of everyting that Wizard is, not woking as intended... the diagram shows that you messed your assumption. Please, we beg you, we dont wanna miracles... we just want a working class... with unique mechanics of masteries... we dont need to be top dps, top class, we dont wanna be a must have in a game... we just wanna be a working class that CAN be a part of party to dungeon, not a MUST HAVE, but a working class that can adjust performance in party. #DontMessWizard
Well, given that in D&D the Wizard basically has a history as being alternately
A.) The spellcaster toolbox (which makes no sense in an MMO) or B.) The guy who casts the spells that makes lots of badguys fall down,
Wizard should be THE best AOE DPS, but probably not the best single target DPS. They should on average be more fragile than other DPS units, but be able to function effectively at range, and excel when enemies are positioned "just so."
The current build doesn't really do that. Most AOEs (Steal Time, Icy Terrain) are what we in 4E parlance would call "Close burst." This works well for aiming powers, but it basically breaks every other conceptual aspect of a Wizard.
A wizard class should be able to create swathes of destruction. Give me Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Cone of Cold, not old 4E powers that weren't very good reflections of those powers seven years ago, much less so now.
My concern with the argument that classes like Wizard should be best AoE DPS is that this game, at least since some years back and going through M15, does not highly value AoE DPS capability. Every class in the game has been adequate for killing dungeon trash, and no one has cared if trash took a few seconds longer to kill if they could shave minutes off of a boss fight.
Unless the best AoE DPS also happens to be either a highly valuable utility character or a very strong single-target DPS, parties don't want it.
This game also has a history of rewarding tight grouping and severely punishing ranged attack styles. Even with the downfall of the buff meta that appears to be a given with M16, it seems doubtful that players will discover some benefit to ranged gameplay. If anything, parties are likely to want to stay close together for healing, defensive buffs, and miscellaneous reasons.
All of the above is why I hope never to see the CW or any other class defined as a Trash Hero since that usually means that low boss damage becomes the tradeoff. I also don't want to see increased focus on targeted ranged powers when the archetypal mage hurling spells from a hilltop isn't a thing that works in this game.
Hmmm. Good point.
Still think they should rename Sudden Storm though.
> @theycallmetomu said: > As @noworries#8859 has said, "Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage." It is my understanding that spell magnitude is the damage multiplier for the spell. Let's look at spell magnitude and base casting times. I understand the larger cooldowns for an AOE based spell, but that would only be steal time and icy terrain. Fanning the Flame is no longer AOE as it only applies smolder to a single target and no longer spreads. Also, any debuffs from spells previously are gone. > > > > Am I missing something here? > > The quintecence of everyting that Wizard is, not woking as intended... the diagram shows that you messed your assumption. Please, we beg you, we dont wanna miracles... we just want a working class... with unique mechanics of masteries... we dont need to be top dps, top class, we dont wanna be a must have in a game... we just wanna be a working class that CAN be a part of party to dungeon, not a MUST HAVE, but a working class that can adjust performance in party. #DontMessWizard > > Well, given that in D&D the Wizard basically has a history as being alternately > > A.) The spellcaster toolbox (which makes no sense in an MMO) or > B.) The guy who casts the spells that makes lots of badguys fall down, > > Wizard should be THE best AOE DPS, but probably not the best single target DPS. They should on average be more fragile than other DPS units, but be able to function effectively at range, and excel when enemies are positioned "just so." > > The current build doesn't really do that. Most AOEs (Steal Time, Icy Terrain) are what we in 4E parlance would call "Close burst." This works well for aiming powers, but it basically breaks every other conceptual aspect of a Wizard. > > A wizard class should be able to create swathes of destruction. Give me Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Cone of Cold, not old 4E powers that weren't very good reflections of those powers seven years ago, much less so now. > > My concern with the argument that classes like Wizard should be best AoE DPS is that this game, at least since some years back and going through M15, does not highly value AoE DPS capability. Every class in the game has been adequate for killing dungeon trash, and no one has cared if trash took a few seconds longer to kill if they could shave minutes off of a boss fight. > > Unless the best AoE DPS also happens to be either a highly valuable utility character or a very strong single-target DPS, parties don't want it. > > This game also has a history of rewarding tight grouping and severely punishing ranged attack styles. Even with the downfall of the buff meta that appears to be a given with M16, it seems doubtful that players will discover some benefit to ranged gameplay. If anything, parties are likely to want to stay close together for healing, defensive buffs, and miscellaneous reasons. > > All of the above is why I hope never to see the CW or any other class defined as a Trash Hero since that usually means that low boss damage becomes the tradeoff. I also don't want to see increased focus on targeted ranged powers when the archetypal mage hurling spells from a hilltop isn't a thing that works in this game. > > > > Hmmm. Good point. > > Still think they should rename Sudden Storm though.
Oh, I agree. I still want my classic Wizard spells!
Chilling Cloud + CoI was a fun pairing to work with - helping to keep things frozen. Linking up the chills with steal time to stun everything was even better and then finishing things off with a disintegrate. Those pairings are gone now. It may not have been the best DPS, but it was enjoyable. It seems as if you made a list of the most fun abilities of CW and split them into two groups and made it impossible to do them all. Everything that was fun about mixing up different skills to get different synergies is now impossible. Why would you prevent people from being able to customize their character to their liking? You have lost me as a player.
As @noworries#8859 has said, "Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage." It is my understanding that spell magnitude is the damage multiplier for the spell. Let's look at spell magnitude and base casting times. I understand the larger cooldowns for an AOE based spell, but that would only be steal time and icy terrain. Fanning the Flame is no longer AOE as it only applies smolder to a single target and no longer spreads. Also, any debuffs from spells previously are gone.
It wasn't a statement to say that the only factor in damage is the cooldown, but instead that damage is directly linked to cooldown so if a given power has its cooldown lowered or raised, the damage would also be raised or lowered.
What other effects a power does, if it is multi-target vs single target, how it plays into other combos/features/feats, are all things that also influence the magnitude of a power.
I just want a ranged AOE option that doesn't take a billion years to cast. Something like Shard of the Endless Avalanche but ... not that. Something like how Icy Terrain functions on live while in spell mastery. Maybe. A simple fireball. It's the classic, but 16 mods later, Wizards still don't have the most fundamental blaster spell.
It's a failure in understanding the core of the licensed IP! Though to be fair, back in 4E, Fireball was an abjectly *awful* spell, so I can understand why it wasn't implemented back then.
I am SO disappointed that this didn't happen.
It's FIREBALL... I'm not asking for Otto's Irresistible Dance. I don't want Otiluke's Freezing Sphere. FIREBALL for God's sake. FIREBALL!!!
For decades it was every Magic User's (That's what Wizards used to be called kids) main aim to get to level 5 and gain access to Fireball and Lightning Bolt and be able to tell the Fighters to shut the HAMSTER up about "Who does most damage".
FIREBALL... probably the only spell in the game MORE iconic than Magic Missile...
In case anyone's confused, I'm talking about a game called Dungeons and Dragons.
For every Magic User, Wizard, Evoker, etc who ever dreamed of turning enemies into frozen statues, there were a HUNDRED dreaming of Blowing the HAMSTER out them with.... FIREBALLS
BUG: at-will power damage for Thaum is too high. This did not occur at initial build (started maybe level 74) so is related to later changes in my build. Have relogged but damage does not change. Changing to arcanist damage goes to normal but high again with back to Thaum
[Combat (Self)] Your Scorching Burst deals 313204 Fire Damage to Galeb Duhr. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Scorching Burst deals 643883 Fire Damage to Molten Galeb Duhr ....................... [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Magic Missile deals 333282 Arcane Damage to Galeb Duhr. [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Magic Missile deals 372544 Arcane Damage to Molten Galeb Duhr.
On second thought I stop with any feedback untill i see the DevBlog about Wizard... there I should get all the answers of what is the meaning of existing the Wizard, Blogs about Paladin and Cleric gave all the answers in my opinion. After i get knowlege how the class creators see us, i will continue to give all my best to get significant informations to improve the performance of the class . #@noworries#8859 Im lookin forward to helpin ya
Comments
If I'm standing really far away from a group and another party member/my companion is attacking I can sit back and hold the button down and watch it hit the groups from afar, but currently I'm struggling to keep it on the bar as my second at-will. In in-your-face battles it just feels slow and clunky and like I can't get my at-wills off before I die. If the thought is to use your at-wills in between your Encounters (which admittedly have some lengthy cooldowns) the at-wills should feel fast, not slower than slow.
While I totally get the not wanting to have cooldowns be so short you use the same encounter powers constantly instead of at-wills, there's no reason you can't have instant cooldown for powers outside of combat. Why should players have to wait around 30 seconds every time they nuke a series of mobs just to get their encounter powers back? Yeah, maybe it incentivizes them to use their at-wills instead, but it also incentivizes more cautious players to do *literally nothing* which is IMO bad game design.
The build I play on live is a "run into the field, AOE everything to death, move on" build. I enjoy it, but I can only do that as a CW because of how heavily I'm geared, and because I don't run group content. I'd like to be able to keep the same strategy for normal leveling, but group content probably shouldn't be tailored to making that sort of AOE DPS solo build playable. Of course, that's what loadouts are for.
Mostly though, I think people are sore because they really really wanted to see D&D classics Fireball and Lightning Bolt in the game. Personally I don't get why it's not Elementalist (with Fire/Cold/Lightning-could also call it Evoker) and Arcanist (with raw energy type spells like Ray of Enfeeblement and Disintegrate).
It might help if every class had a blog writeup that explained the direction of the respective Paragon Paths because as is, I'm scratching my head asking what exactly the dev team was going for.
Are cooldowns supposed to be higher than what it is on live for LOW recovery characters?
On preview, using all the same gear, my recovery speed is only 10%-meaning non-recovery based cooldown speed enhancement fell by something like 20%.
Given that reduction in cooldowns everything looks normal with one huge exception:
Icy Terrain went from 6.6 second cooldown to 17.2. By my calculations, it should be 11.5 seconds, all else equal. Or was Icy Terrain in particular just made to have a much much slower cooldown? (Or is there some Icy Terrain speedup feat I'm forgetting?)
The damage of Disintegrate seriously needs a boost (and honestly all of the encounters seem rather underwhelming damagewise. Especially when I see the dps Cleric with an 800 base magnitude encounter that gets to the point of being nearly equivalent to the Wizards strongest daily power.
I am completely unable to equip the Chilling Cloud at-will despite having it unlocked.
Critical Hits should be calculated per hit on 'Ticking' Powers like Conduit of Ice, Oppressive Force, Steal Time and Icy Terrain.
Spell Mastery: It would be nice if it had a bonus that reduces cooldown times of powers. For example, when you activate a power in the Spell Mastery slot, it will halve the current time remaining on the powers that are currently on cool down. The reason behind this is because Spell Mastery just seems like another encounter power. It doesn't have no real game changing mechanic. It would also be nice if you brought back the Spell Mastery bonuses for some of the other powers.
The new At Will, Arcane Bolt, should have a much shorter casting time, similar to Magic Missile to complete its full hit combo. In its current state its horrible to use. Its final Hit(s) should be a mini AOE attack.
The new Encounter Power, Cataclysm, isn't great, it doesn't feel at all Powerful. Hits only a few targets in a small area. Not sure why anyone would use it. Should be reworked a power that hits over a wider area.
Storm Spell: With the changes to Critical Hits and Counter Stats, Storm Spell should be made to have a 30% Chance to proc on all damage, not just Critical Hits. It should also be made to be a Mechanic like Smoulder.
Maelstrom of Chaos takes to long to cast.
Conduit of Ice should be swapped with Entangling Force on the Arcanist Path. Conduit of Ice has a nice synergy with Storm Spell, which is why it should be put on that path.
Striking Advantage (Feat) doesn't feel right. It doesn't do enough damage to make any difference and doesn't scale with debuffs.
Bugs:
Maelstrom of Chaos isn't usable at 50% AP like the tooltip says.
Steal Time: Still doesn't proc the % part of weapon the enchantments.
I have no issue defeating any enemy nor troubles in dungeons.
The game seems overly balanced to me now.
At-will : Fast (Low dps)
Encounter : Medium (Medium to high dps)
Daily : Slow (High dps)
The game feels more tactical now and it isn't as challenging as before in terms of glass canon gameplay style.
I actually had to approach each enemy with a bit of care and strategy, which made me remember days of playing Warcraft. It feels nice and I am content with the changes as I know this is just the beginning and progress will follow.
Am I missing something here?
Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
Though, Fireball doesn't seem like a DOT to me, so maybe not.
What other effects a power does, if it is multi-target vs single target, how it plays into other combos/features/feats, are all things that also influence the magnitude of a power.
It's a failure in understanding the core of the licensed IP! Though to be fair, back in 4E, Fireball was an abjectly *awful* spell, so I can understand why it wasn't implemented back then.
A.) The spellcaster toolbox (which makes no sense in an MMO) or
B.) The guy who casts the spells that makes lots of badguys fall down,
Wizard should be THE best AOE DPS, but probably not the best single target DPS. They should on average be more fragile than other DPS units, but be able to function effectively at range, and excel when enemies are positioned "just so."
The current build doesn't really do that. Most AOEs (Steal Time, Icy Terrain) are what we in 4E parlance would call "Close burst." This works well for aiming powers, but it basically breaks every other conceptual aspect of a Wizard.
A wizard class should be able to create swathes of destruction. Give me Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Cone of Cold, not old 4E powers that weren't very good reflections of those powers seven years ago, much less so now.
So my breakdown would be-
Thaumaturge/Elementalist: Has Fire, Cold, and Lightning. Specializes in AOE and dealing damage directly. Fanning the Flames replaced with a Fireball (circle based ranged AOE), Icy Terrain replaced with Cone of Cold (decent sized cone), Sudden Storm replaced with Lightning Bolt (literally just changing the name of the power). Add the word Greater in front of Ice Storm maybe? Give us an 80th level Meteor Swarm daily maybe.
Arcanist: Has more arcane powers, and focuses on control effects like Steal Time and Shard of the Endless Avalanche, but is still capable of dealing good DPS. Imprisonment can stay but probably shouldn't cause the target to take 0 damage. Ray of Enfeeblement works fine. Entangling Force is fine. Basically this build just needs to remove the lightning stuff I guess.
I would also rename Entangling Force to Telekinesis. Basically, rename powers to match their 5E D&D closest equivalents: I think that'd help with establishing the game's product identity.
Unless the best AoE DPS also happens to be either a highly valuable utility character or a very strong single-target DPS, parties don't want it.
This game also has a history of rewarding tight grouping and severely punishing ranged attack styles. Even with the downfall of the buff meta that appears to be a given with M16, it seems doubtful that players will discover some benefit to ranged gameplay. If anything, parties are likely to want to stay close together for healing, defensive buffs, and miscellaneous reasons.
All of the above is why I hope never to see the CW or any other class defined as a Trash Hero since that usually means that low boss damage becomes the tradeoff. I also don't want to see increased focus on targeted ranged powers when the archetypal mage hurling spells from a hilltop isn't a thing that works in this game.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Still think they should rename Sudden Storm though.
> As @noworries#8859 has said, "Also damage is directly related to the length of the cooldown, shorter the cooldown, lower the damage." It is my understanding that spell magnitude is the damage multiplier for the spell. Let's look at spell magnitude and base casting times. I understand the larger cooldowns for an AOE based spell, but that would only be steal time and icy terrain. Fanning the Flame is no longer AOE as it only applies smolder to a single target and no longer spreads. Also, any debuffs from spells previously are gone.
>
>
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
> The quintecence of everyting that Wizard is, not woking as intended... the diagram shows that you messed your assumption. Please, we beg you, we dont wanna miracles... we just want a working class... with unique mechanics of masteries... we dont need to be top dps, top class, we dont wanna be a must have in a game... we just wanna be a working class that CAN be a part of party to dungeon, not a MUST HAVE, but a working class that can adjust performance in party. #DontMessWizard
>
> Well, given that in D&D the Wizard basically has a history as being alternately
>
> A.) The spellcaster toolbox (which makes no sense in an MMO) or
> B.) The guy who casts the spells that makes lots of badguys fall down,
>
> Wizard should be THE best AOE DPS, but probably not the best single target DPS. They should on average be more fragile than other DPS units, but be able to function effectively at range, and excel when enemies are positioned "just so."
>
> The current build doesn't really do that. Most AOEs (Steal Time, Icy Terrain) are what we in 4E parlance would call "Close burst." This works well for aiming powers, but it basically breaks every other conceptual aspect of a Wizard.
>
> A wizard class should be able to create swathes of destruction. Give me Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Cone of Cold, not old 4E powers that weren't very good reflections of those powers seven years ago, much less so now.
>
> My concern with the argument that classes like Wizard should be best AoE DPS is that this game, at least since some years back and going through M15, does not highly value AoE DPS capability. Every class in the game has been adequate for killing dungeon trash, and no one has cared if trash took a few seconds longer to kill if they could shave minutes off of a boss fight.
>
> Unless the best AoE DPS also happens to be either a highly valuable utility character or a very strong single-target DPS, parties don't want it.
>
> This game also has a history of rewarding tight grouping and severely punishing ranged attack styles. Even with the downfall of the buff meta that appears to be a given with M16, it seems doubtful that players will discover some benefit to ranged gameplay. If anything, parties are likely to want to stay close together for healing, defensive buffs, and miscellaneous reasons.
>
> All of the above is why I hope never to see the CW or any other class defined as a Trash Hero since that usually means that low boss damage becomes the tradeoff. I also don't want to see increased focus on targeted ranged powers when the archetypal mage hurling spells from a hilltop isn't a thing that works in this game.
>
>
>
> Hmmm. Good point.
>
> Still think they should rename Sudden Storm though.
Oh, I agree. I still want my classic Wizard spells!
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Chilling Cloud + CoI was a fun pairing to work with - helping to keep things frozen. Linking up the chills with steal time to stun everything was even better and then finishing things off with a disintegrate. Those pairings are gone now. It may not have been the best DPS, but it was enjoyable. It seems as if you made a list of the most fun abilities of CW and split them into two groups and made it impossible to do them all. Everything that was fun about mixing up different skills to get different synergies is now impossible. Why would you prevent people from being able to customize their character to their liking? You have lost me as a player.
It's FIREBALL... I'm not asking for Otto's Irresistible Dance.
I don't want Otiluke's Freezing Sphere.
FIREBALL for God's sake.
FIREBALL!!!
For decades it was every Magic User's (That's what Wizards used to be called kids) main aim to get to level 5 and gain access to Fireball and Lightning Bolt and be able to tell the Fighters to shut the HAMSTER up about "Who does most damage".
FIREBALL... probably the only spell in the game MORE iconic than Magic Missile...
In case anyone's confused, I'm talking about a game called Dungeons and Dragons.
For every Magic User, Wizard, Evoker, etc who ever dreamed of turning enemies into frozen statues, there were a HUNDRED dreaming of Blowing the HAMSTER out them with.... FIREBALLS
BUG: at-will power damage for Thaum is too high. This did not occur at initial build (started maybe level 74) so is related to later changes in my build. Have relogged but damage does not change. Changing to arcanist damage goes to normal but high again with back to Thaum
[Combat (Self)] Your Scorching Burst deals 313204 Fire Damage to Galeb Duhr.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Scorching Burst deals 643883 Fire Damage to Molten Galeb Duhr
.......................
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Magic Missile deals 333282 Arcane Damage to Galeb Duhr.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Magic Missile deals 372544 Arcane Damage to Molten Galeb Duhr.
#@noworries#8859 Im lookin forward to helpin ya
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