So you are a beta tester or at least have informations you should not share I assume
You can already guess that the devs plan to do something to buffs based off how content looks like right now.
Buffs are so stupidly powerful that bringing buffs will raise your team's DPS by a larger amount than bringing another damage dealer.
Buffs are the reason that AoE fights are nonexistent and why boss fights end in 10 seconds for good teams.
Buffs turned Conqueror GF from being the solo/PvP spec to the best/second best burst damage class for a very long time (decimal misplacements nonwithstanding).
We've already joked around about noworries' "100 million in a single hit" statement regarding TR SoD being the "only" class that can hit for hundreds of millions in a single hit, I don't need to add any more fuel to that snarkbait.
Given that this module seems to indicate that the devs have some idea of what snaps the game in half (see: Lifesteal making players immortal and healers irrelevant, Recovery devaluing dailies/encounters, and Critical hits no longer being luck based), they surely know that buffs break the game.
And given the track record of the nerfs being done with a sledgehammer, it's not an unreasonable guess to assume buffs will be completely gone rather than merely reworked to be less broken.
Currently i try to get so much recovery and lifesteal as possible at my GWF (Barbie) for mod 16. I heared both stats will be the most needed stats in mod 16. I allways knew whats good for me in every module.
ill play as normal, not listen to the scaremongering thats trolled out in chat... i will take a peek at the testing, however i will keep in mind that the content is 'open to change'. im a stats and maths geek, so i see removal / addition of new stats as a challenge, an adversity to overcome - if my character feels 'nerfed' then i will figure out a workaround - successfully doing that is almost as much fun as playing the actual content.
i for one, am actually looking forward to the arrival of 16.
buffers are going away. bye bye.. won't be part of the next mod.
That's why I hope a modicum of buffs from tank & healer will remain. DG & BtS each 10% buff, WoL as only source of power share, dailies for protection and heal. That way DC playstyle would remain largely intact.
Given that this module seems to indicate that the devs have some idea of what snaps the game in half (see: Lifesteal making players immortal and healers irrelevant, Recovery devaluing dailies/encounters, and Critical hits no longer being luck based), they surely know that buffs break the game.
And given the track record of the nerfs being done with a sledgehammer, it's not an unreasonable guess to assume buffs will be completely gone rather than merely reworked to be less broken.
You mean buffs from one player exceeding 40 - 60%? Group buffs of around 10 - 20% which many DPS classes and builds provide (I think Pillar is 20%, Battle Fury 6.25%) are not creating problems. Removing self buffs and buffs from DPS classes, and having similar buffs from tank & healer that currently DPS & DPS buffer provide solves most of those issues without a groundbreaking rework.
Actually I can´t find any informations about buffs being deleted or encounter will be completely changed the way they work and loose the ability to buff. Is there any comment ond devs side that says : " All your encounter will get a complete rework and loose the ability to buff other classes." ? If so, the impact will be huge, if not the ability to buff will stay but powers will have a less repeptetive character, wich is all i read so far.
@schietindebux: We don't know what the classes will look like. Healer (and tank to a lesser degree) in many other MMOs is horrible in my opinion. Since recovery gets removed healer can stack offensive stats on companion, which to me sounds more interesting then what we currently got. We will have to wait and see. But it's definitely a valid concern at this point. Some classes in other MMO are basically unplayable if ping exceeds 100 - 200ms. Neverwinter lags like what feels 2 seconds for everyone outside of North America.
Sure, we have to wait and see, but in general DC is one of the most powerfull classes if not the most powerfull class from all atm. Assuming the class will drop a bit won´t change anything, since the class is miles above others in terms of buffs, debuffs, mitigation tools same as flexibility to addpet to any situation. Just pretend mod 16 was allready life, you got 3 classes to pick as a healer to absolve endcontent. I assure you 90% will saty with the DC out of those 3 options: 1. DC 2. OP 3. warlock, a class known to be "no choice" to fill the role of a full healer/supporter actually. Just pretend At Wills, encounter and dailies will stay as they actually are. DC will still be able to hold up HG 24/7, in case feats for encounter reset and capstones (rightous) won´t get a mayor nerf. Mitigation tools will be a big plus in times of "no lifesteal", no class can do same. Even "worst case scenarios" won´t change the fact that a warlock will saty 2. choice same as Devo OP will stay 2. choice beside a OP tank, maybe 1. choice beside a GF tank... if GF will ever be on par with that OP class, but i doubt this will happen, since OP has to suffer from changes same way (no: "My Devo can Bane boss and two striker at once") We talk about balance and new roles some classes will get. The game is in need of significant changes, since the distance between some classes and roles as it is now is significant, comparing those classes with each other, especially if you watch at the role of a healer.
It is valid to say: "the class is dead to me and I am tired to play a DC same as tired to be reduced to be the buff-slave for all those paingiver junkies" .. but in that case I propose to choose another class. I run a warlock, a DC, a GF, an OP and actually started a CW , since I was tired a bit to run actual content. Another alternative was to stop playing NWO and go somewhere else to find a way to waste my time outside reallife issues. But actually the discussion about classes and changes sounds pretty onesided.
I am assuming that there is a language barrier here.
The phrase 'dead to me' means that the speaker doesn't want anything to do with the subject. It says nothing about the subject but about the speaker's preferences.
In this instance, the meaning here is that Cat doesn't think that what the cleric will be in m16 is something that she is interested in. Doesn't matter if the class gets buffed or nerfed. The role of the DC was widely seen as buffing and that is likely to change. We don't know that the buff meta will be over in the coming mod but it is a safe bet. So the role that Cat signed up for is likely to be removed from the game and she is electing to focus in other characters.
"a lot of assumptions in here, not objective or vaild all"
Just No. The blog post states Cleric will have a Healing and a DPS paragon. Numerous dev posts since mod 12b have indicated that they will shift the game away from buffing, towards healing. These things are not assumptions, they are statements have been made over a year and a half by the people rebuilding the game.
No barrier. I read it and I am sure I understood the essence from: "the class is dead to me, I am tired to play a healer and I doubt my DC will ever be a first degree dps" Not much to get wrong same as my comment is exactly pointing at this concern: If you don´t like to play a buffer/heal , don´t do so. There are other classes ingame, and the fact that a class designed for support/heal (at least till mod 15) etc should prevent you right at the start of the game to even look into that class at all in case you don´t liek to play a support/heal/buffbot Same counts for other classes too. My GF is more or less a 2. degree tank. My Warlock a 2. degree striker and a 3. degree healer (actually he can´t even queue for that role) . I don´t step into this discussion and blame anyone for the fact of being practically "not wanted to dps with my striker, same as rarely asks to tank with my GF, beside doing the buffbot, and being requested to buff with my DC 24/7 outside premades" I build an OP that can handle allready most of the content, same as my CW grows from day to day. I think a classoverhaul is a good step, not knowing where the journey will end, and I also do not expect a perfect implementation of all those massive changes right from the start. The comments from devs about less buffs and leading the game and classes back into their innate roles allready started mods ago and it is a good decision i the sum. They started the process allready arround mod 9 or 10 or even former mods I think. Many changes took part and they also wrote they will go on that path, wich indicates that they do have a plan, same as their plan will go in small steps (as stated back then). But no worries, DC will not loose all that powerfull tools at once, no way. They litterally turn back all those crappy decisions that started, i guess mod 6, when you got oneshotted in most places, no matter if you run cragmire or went into Icewinddale solo. Anyway, in case mod 16 is a big annoyance I step back and might give it a try later.
With that being said, I am wondering did you make a CW to be DPS? do you expect your CW to have comparative DPS to say a GWF or TR of the same level? If so then you are making a double standard. You are correct that it does indicate that DC's are primarily focused on healing and buffing. But when you look at CW's they are primarily focused on Controlling enemies and having some damage. Compare that to a GWF or TR which is a striker making there primary roll to be a DPS, or to a Paladin who is a Defender yet still can dish out a lot of damage.
Telling someone they cant play a class a certain way when it is very feasible to actually do so is just wrong.
I build a CW and hope that CC abilities will be from any interst in upcoming mods same as I think the class is fun to play and actually can handle any content as a striker from what I saw . My CW is far from being a striker but melts through content, getting my boons build up, same as I don´t intend to invest into max gear since I got a striker with all that stuff (warlock). Too expensive and too much effort to bring that class at max stats atm. Everyone got different experiences with a CW as main dps. My experience tells me , that class can deal significant damage if build that way.
If power sharing goes out of the window, if classes start being THE CLASS they are meant to be (tank to tank, heal to heal, dps to dps), if dungeons do not have to be as hard as they used to be (one shot - dead or toon heals for 50.000.000hp), that is a major and most important revert of the mistake that plagued us since its inception - MOD6.
I stated this before, I state it now - Powersharing has to go!
So, after that, we could potentially sum-up all changes to specific classes since MOD6 up to now.
New and most obvious change is the removal of Recovery. This is something I never predicted to happen since it is rather drastic, if not a bit too much. But still expected in a way due to how fast and ludicrous was to run with support party around. But that aside, I do have a feeling that game will play more in-tune with logic starting from MOD16. Or at least I hope.
People tend to look at ABCDEFGH from point E to point F because they get used to things, instead to look at point A to point H in order to see how it actually works in the longer run and whether it will work for potential IJKLMN etc... And why is that important? Let me tell you: I really, really do not need a tank who is a healer + who also gives me tens of thousands of power + buffs up my weapon enchantment damage which also works on multiproc so that devs cut down my entire class because of that one power that's not even my classes power... Yeah, THAT I like to avoid if possible. Because devs will destroy it. They will butcher my class, untill they finally realize where the major AND core problem actually lies dormant.
Here we see same old story - if it gets overused, it is out of the picture. In this case - recovery. But then again, Wizard without Control since MOD6 practically and finally gets recognized as a pure DPS class. Wow... I'm speechless. It's been about time, no? All that melee wizzy getting into the heat of battle to cast icy terrain, conduit of ice, to get all those potential buffs and procs only to somehow kill or remain useful in nearly each metamod... It is like continuing from MOD2, but with an upgraded Wizard.
I drink to that.
I really like to have more options to choose from in terms of gameplay style and effort I put into game.
DCs holy fire ability is something I like to see. It is how it was supposed to be. Smite the undead. Clear mobs first, then switch to Cleric and heal the team in boss fights. Yeah, that's good. Barbies play as DPS w mobs, but switch to tanks after in boss battle.
A bit more dynamic play is a good thing as it keeps people in check. I mean, Wizards have been doing this since forever, several different builds, several different gameplay styles. It's nice to see other classes having to share such methods, too hehehehe
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Actually I can´t find any informations about buffs being deleted or encounter will be completely changed the way they work and loose the ability to buff. Is there any comment ond devs side that says : " All your encounter will get a complete rework and loose the ability to buff other classes." ? If so, the impact will be huge, if not the ability to buff will stay but powers will have a less repeptetive character, wich is all i read so far.
Indirectly, cause if buffs remain exactly as they are now the buff meta wouldn't change. There's a sweet spot maybe somewhere around 10 - 40% where it a) is impossible for buffers to always be more useful then bringing another DPS and b) still brings a lot of utility to the group (even from players who are a bit undergeared).
Judging by the recent dev blog Arbiter DPS cleric will remain to have some utility, there's no info on if the healer will yet.
Comments
Buffs are so stupidly powerful that bringing buffs will raise your team's DPS by a larger amount than bringing another damage dealer.
Buffs are the reason that AoE fights are nonexistent and why boss fights end in 10 seconds for good teams.
Buffs turned Conqueror GF from being the solo/PvP spec to the best/second best burst damage class for a very long time (decimal misplacements nonwithstanding).
We've already joked around about noworries' "100 million in a single hit" statement regarding TR SoD being the "only" class that can hit for hundreds of millions in a single hit, I don't need to add any more fuel to that snarkbait.
Given that this module seems to indicate that the devs have some idea of what snaps the game in half (see: Lifesteal making players immortal and healers irrelevant, Recovery devaluing dailies/encounters, and Critical hits no longer being luck based), they surely know that buffs break the game.
And given the track record of the nerfs being done with a sledgehammer, it's not an unreasonable guess to assume buffs will be completely gone rather than merely reworked to be less broken.
Spidey
i will take a peek at the testing, however i will keep in mind that the content is 'open to change'.
im a stats and maths geek, so i see removal / addition of new stats as a challenge, an adversity to overcome - if my character feels 'nerfed' then i will figure out a workaround - successfully doing that is almost as much fun as playing the actual content.
i for one, am actually looking forward to the arrival of 16.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
If so, the impact will be huge, if not the ability to buff will stay but powers will have a less repeptetive character, wich is all i read so far.
Too expensive and too much effort to bring that class at max stats atm. Everyone got different experiences with a CW as main dps. My experience tells me , that class can deal significant damage if build that way.
I stated this before, I state it now - Powersharing has to go!
So, after that, we could potentially sum-up all changes to specific classes since MOD6 up to now.
New and most obvious change is the removal of Recovery. This is something I never predicted to happen since it is rather drastic, if not a bit too much. But still expected in a way due to how fast and ludicrous was to run with support party around.
But that aside, I do have a feeling that game will play more in-tune with logic starting from MOD16. Or at least I hope.
People tend to look at ABCDEFGH from point E to point F because they get used to things, instead to look at point A to point H in order to see how it actually works in the longer run and whether it will work for potential IJKLMN etc... And why is that important? Let me tell you:
I really, really do not need a tank who is a healer + who also gives me tens of thousands of power + buffs up my weapon enchantment damage which also works on multiproc so that devs cut down my entire class because of that one power that's not even my classes power... Yeah, THAT I like to avoid if possible. Because devs will destroy it. They will butcher my class, untill they finally realize where the major AND core problem actually lies dormant.
Here we see same old story - if it gets overused, it is out of the picture. In this case - recovery. But then again, Wizard without Control since MOD6 practically and finally gets recognized as a pure DPS class. Wow... I'm speechless. It's been about time, no? All that melee wizzy getting into the heat of battle to cast icy terrain, conduit of ice, to get all those potential buffs and procs only to somehow kill or remain useful in nearly each metamod... It is like continuing from MOD2, but with an upgraded Wizard.
I drink to that.
I really like to have more options to choose from in terms of gameplay style and effort I put into game.
DCs holy fire ability is something I like to see. It is how it was supposed to be. Smite the undead. Clear mobs first, then switch to Cleric and heal the team in boss fights. Yeah, that's good.
Barbies play as DPS w mobs, but switch to tanks after in boss battle.
A bit more dynamic play is a good thing as it keeps people in check. I mean, Wizards have been doing this since forever, several different builds, several different gameplay styles. It's nice to see other classes having to share such methods, too
Judging by the recent dev blog Arbiter DPS cleric will remain to have some utility, there's no info on if the healer will yet.