Tales of Old is not possible for most characters.

baghtru64 · February 2019

I was looking forward to the Tales of Old event when i read that it was going to bring back some of the older dungeons and grant us new rewards for completing them. Sadly i was seriously let down when the reality of the event made it clear that it was only for end game players instead of the masses. By making it necessary to have 16,000 item level or close to it put it out of the reach of all of my characters. I have an HR and TR both over 14k IL, but I couldn't even find a party to try out the event. I tried making my own parties, but when the people i invited saw that my characters were "only" 14k, they left the group. I even gave it a quick shot to solo the dungeon, but couldn't even kill 1 of the mobs solo.

I have been playing this game since it was in beta, but this is the first time i have seen an event that excluded a large portion of the player base. The dungeons could have been scaled to the players entering it instead. I hope that events in the future will not cater to just one portion of the games players, but will instead be open to all.

kiraskytower · February 2019

We have been running this pretty regularly with 12-13K characters in alliance groups (along with a couple of 16-17K characters). I'll admit, it's tough to get through more than 2, maybe 3 runs with the up-scaled characters in the group, but they can still go through and play the event. The trick is to run the dungeon more like a K-Team ... be cautious, let the tank lead and aim for some kind of group synergy.

Oh ... and never, ever try to PUG something like this.

yperkeimenos · February 2019

I agree with the op, i'm a cw 15.7k and couldn't find a team to run the dungeon with, eventhough i'm quite an experienced player who can run all content, knows how to play a cw and doesn't shy away from Castle Ravenloft. My Guild isn't active when i play,if at all, and the "looking for group" channel was full of people requesting 16k+ dc,hr,gwf,op,gf but no cw. It's bad practice to alienate a huge part of the playerbase in this way and to be honest not the best way to make people spend money on the game. I don't and i never will for as long as i see this kind of lousy behaviour from the Developers/Company.

feanor70118 · February 2019

1) It's not supposed to be for most characters. You run it undergeared, people don't want to bother, why are you surprised? At least they're honest about the IL gate FOR ONCE.
2) I agree that it should be for all characters. But it's a bad event anyway. Gating new gear behind it that you can't get until it's happened 6 times is a bad idea. Putting all of one of the currencies in chests that most groups won't let you open after the first day is a bad idea. The devs keep trying to invent solutions to nonexistent problems and only create real problems. It doesn't bode well for mod 16.

cdnbison · February 2019

1. "Why is this event only for end-game characters? We want stuff for *everyone*!"
2. "This stuff is too easy! Give us stuff that will challenge end-game characters!"

Seriously... Cryptic can't win here... They give an event for everyone, people complain; they give an event for endgame, people complain....

Personally, I've enjoyed it. It's a serious challenge for a group, and the rewards are pretty nice. It really forces you to take things slow in the later stages, and gets back into some old school 'let the tank get aggro' style of play. I've been in more than a couple runs where the CW would just run ahead, start lighting up mobs, and fall down dead.

ecrana · February 2019

All content should not be made the same.

Content should be a goal not a given. You want to run the hardest stuff, gear up. If they made it easy for everyone than the end rewards would be scaled to account for that.

I get that people feel excluded but this is like people whining that they started the game a month ago and can't do Chult yet because they're only 9k.

syrenui · February 2019

Personally I was very happy when I read that I would be able to re-visit a dungeon I had seen last years ago, but I was and still am very disappointed and sad that it was an event that turned out to be one I was not able to participate at all.

I would have accepted that I could not earn a lot or even any cool rewards if I didn't have a lot of continous time to spend.
But as I seldom had more time than an hour of uninterrupted time (haven't had for quite some time now, so my gear is far from the best) and only at times where most of my friends and people from my guild/alliance were not online and I do not have an IL of 16k+, I was not even able to try it out even once. And even if there were enough players that were interested in joining me, they shied away when I told them I had to leave in an hour.

Why was there no way to be randlomly queued? The one time I tried, I ended up in the dungeon alone and was killed by the first mob.

Or was the intention of this event only to entertain bored endgame players who would otherwise leave the game?

rannxeroxx · February 2019

I did not run it at all. My highest is just shy of 14K but is an OP so can survive most high end stuff just fine but the need to form a group is not coded well for this game. Would like to see a system where you have a screen, see parties formed and waiting for slots, can ask to join each one and the party leader gives yea or na. Much easier then trying to do some wonky thing via chat.

kstubble · February 2019

i did not run it at all either, my characters range from 12k to 18.5k.

this event requires too much uninterrupted time investment

i chose not to run tales or cta. rewards based on spread out events i cannot commit to. plus bugs and logging issues make these events too much to bother with

wintersmoke · February 2019

feanor70118 said:
1) It's not supposed to be for most characters. You run it undergeared, people don't want to bother, why are you surprised? At least they're honest about the IL gate FOR ONCE.
2) I agree that it should be for all characters. But it's a bad event anyway. Gating new gear behind it that you can't get until it's happened 6 times is a bad idea. Putting all of one of the currencies in chests that most groups won't let you open after the first day is a bad idea. The devs keep trying to invent solutions to nonexistent problems and only create real problems. It doesn't bode well for mod 16.

So, let's see if we have this right... the Devs finally bring back one of the old dungeons, that 1/2 the players never got the chance to run... But it's not for everybody. Okay. Hamster that Kittens. Right in the Puppy. With an Octopus.

mithrosnomore · February 2019

ecrana#2080 said:
All content should not be made the same.

Content should be a goal not a given. You want to run the hardest stuff, gear up. If they made it easy for everyone than the end rewards would be scaled to account for that.

I get that people feel excluded but this is like people whining that they started the game a month ago and can't do Chult yet because they're only 9k.

Chult's (probably) not going anywhere, though. A player knows that they can build themselves up and when they are ready for Chult they can go to Chult.

Who knows when this particular dungeon will be back?

I think that in-game "events" should be for everyone, or at least more open than this felt.

Hopefully Mod16 will at least fix the issues of some classes being excluded from participation, and I would like to see a queue introduced for the next time.
If every class is on the same level as every other class that fills the same role then a PUG should be viable if all the roles are filled by characters that meet the recommended item level.

pitmonster · February 2019

mithrosnomore said:

ecrana#2080 said:
All content should not be made the same.

Content should be a goal not a given. You want to run the hardest stuff, gear up. If they made it easy for everyone than the end rewards would be scaled to account for that.

I get that people feel excluded but this is like people whining that they started the game a month ago and can't do Chult yet because they're only 9k.
Chult's (probably) not going anywhere, though. A player knows that they can build themselves up and when they are ready for Chult they can go to Chult.

Who knows when this particular dungeon will be back?

I think that in-game "events" should be for everyone, or at least more open than this felt.

Hopefully Mod16 will at least fix the issues of some classes being excluded from participation, and I would like to see a queue introduced for the next time.
If every class is on the same level as every other class that fills the same role then a PUG should be viable if all the roles are filled by characters that meet the recommended item level.

I agree with this. Events should bring the community together, not create divisions, clique, etc. There will always be the hardest content but like mithrosnomore said, it will always be there as a goal to achieve.

micheal1979 · February 2019

I hate to say this, but with current ease to earn gear via barovia/seals most players could reach 16k. That being said form your own groups, to get my hr in I had to go buff and form the parties as most would like to see a different dps fill the slot (especially since I wont play combat). I know everyone is mad they weren't able to get carried by over geared players, but as stated above play behind the tank and go group by group and it wasn't bad with players sub 16k in the group. All games have this tricky balance of keeping hard content for players that are bored of low level easily attainable content and new players that want a lot of content with no effort ( this would include players that may have been around for years but invest no effort into improving). I know some will call me an elitist and some will agree, but I hope they continue putting on content that requires little to no item level and content that requires being end game. Everyone gets something.

akemnos · February 2019

micheal1979 said:
I hate to say this, but with current ease to earn gear via barovia/seals most players could reach 16k. That being said form your own groups, to get my hr in I had to go buff and form the parties as most would like to see a different dps fill the slot (especially since I wont play combat). I know everyone is mad they weren't able to get carried by over geared players, but as stated above play behind the tank and go group by group and it wasn't bad with players sub 16k in the group. All games have this tricky balance of keeping hard content for players that are bored of low level easily attainable content and new players that want a lot of content with no effort ( this would include players that may have been around for years but invest no effort into improving). I know some will call me an elitist and some will agree, but I hope they continue putting on content that requires little to no item level and content that requires being end game. Everyone gets something.

Finally someone with some extra common sense. I agree that this was not the most friendly content for lower geared players but anyone could have done the 1st and 2nd runs with a half decent team. You didn't need to be 16k for those. It was only runs 3+ that added any real difficulty at all. Run 1 was just normal and run 2 disabled artifact powers which lets face it for these lower ilevel characters was probably not even really a big deal.

The most important thing was forming your own team. I personally ran every single run with my brother at the same time so we immediately took up 2 dps slots. This already put us against the "Meta" but with some effort looking in "LFG", guild, alliance and a private channel teams were made. Were we all bis 18k gods? no. While the two dps where 16.5-17k we constantly had 12-14k tanks and dcs with us.

As long as people knew what they were doing it was possible. The only thing 18k members did differently is it was faster to plow through everything.

mithrosnomore · February 2019

akemnos said:

Finally someone with some extra common sense. I agree that this was not the most friendly content for lower geared players but anyone could have done the 1st and 2nd runs with a half decent team. You didn't need to be 16k for those. It was only runs 3+ that added any real difficulty at all. Run 1 was just normal and run 2 disabled artifact powers which lets face it for these lower ilevel characters was probably not even really a big deal.

But that wasn't made clear anywhere, was it?

Nope. Just said "IL 16K". And so from there it works the opposite of what you said.

Those that wanted to be carried didn't care. They would try to find their way on to team after team until they finally found a group that wouldn't kick them for being undergeared.

But the people that didn't want to get carried saw "IL 16K", saw that they only had 12K or whatever and then just decided that the event wasn't for them.

I wasn't looking to get carried. I just wanted to see the old dungeon (or see it again. Not sure if I ran it back in the day).
Sure, some super-optimized extra-fine-tuned players might not need me even if I was at 16K, but I wasn't looking for charity.

dread4moor · February 2019

> @mithrosnomore said:
> Those that wanted to be carried didn't care. They would try to find their way on to team after team until they finally found a group that wouldn't kick them for being undergeared.
>
> But the people that didn't want to get carried saw "IL 16K", saw that they only had 12K or whatever and then just decided that the event wasn't for them.
>
> I wasn't looking to get carried. I just wanted to see the old dungeon (or see it again. Not sure if I ran it back in the day).
> Sure, some super-optimized extra-fine-tuned players might not need me even if I was at 16K, but I wasn't looking for charity.

I was extremely critical of ToO, having played it extensively on preview and reporting all the bugs which were released anyway.

But I must disagree that moderate geared players cannot play it.
As @akemnos said, anyone of any IL can form their own team and just run 2-3 rounds.

This principal is not limited to ToO. Anyone feeling excluded from any content should just run with guildies/alliance members or post your own LFG with no IL restriction.

There will be plenty of <16k players glad to join you.

pitmonster · February 2019

micheal1979 said:
I hate to say this, but with current ease to earn gear via barovia/seals most players could reach 16k. That being said form your own groups, to get my hr in I had to go buff and form the parties as most would like to see a different dps fill the slot (especially since I wont play combat). I know everyone is mad they weren't able to get carried by over geared players, but as stated above play behind the tank and go group by group and it wasn't bad with players sub 16k in the group. All games have this tricky balance of keeping hard content for players that are bored of low level easily attainable content and new players that want a lot of content with no effort ( this would include players that may have been around for years but invest no effort into improving). I know some will call me an elitist and some will agree, but I hope they continue putting on content that requires little to no item level and content that requires being end game. Everyone gets something.

Its going to take more then just barovia and seals gear to get to 16K... a lot more. I have most of my campaign boons and have Barovia gear with some Chult stuff and just at 14K. Frankly its the enchants and such that cost so much AD to raise. You either need to grind away for years or spend way too much money to get those up. I am working on it but its a slow grind.

mithrosnomore · March 2019

dread4moor said:

But I must disagree that moderate geared players cannot play it.

Where did I say that they couldn't?

What I said was that the game told them that they couldn't.

The game said IL 16K or GTFO.

Okay, so I stayed away. After all, how would I know that I could contribute in any meaningful way? The game said that I couldn't.

Why is that difficult to understand? That some people stayed away from the event because the game told them that they weren't good enough to do it?

Yeah, sure some people may have played it because they had friends and guildies that either didn't mind carrying them along or that had already done it and knew that a lower IL would be fine for a run or two.

Me? No guild. No friends list.

I saw only what the game said. I knew only what the game said.

And the game said "You aren't good enough for this".

I took the game at it's word and chose not to try and "sneak" on to a team or cry out in zone chat to be carried.

manipulos · March 2019

I think I said this in another thread already, but you did NOT need to be in a 16K party to run the dungeon. The first two rounds were very easy, even the third round was not difficult. Only the 4th and 5th rounds were challenging. It is too bad the devs warned that you needed 16k because it's not true, you still could have had fun and maybe even completed the chapter by running a lot of 3 and 4 round runs.

dread4moor · March 2019

mithrosnomore said:

"Where did I say that they couldn't?"
You implied that lower geared players were told not to play by Cryptic and they were having a hard time getting into parties.
I disagreed. They can make their own party and not worry about begging elite players.

"What I said was that the game told them that they couldn't.
The game said IL 16K or GTFO."
Cryptic said "get gear or GTFO", huh? Hmmm.... Let's re-read that...
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11089433
"Event Overview
When a new Tales of Old event begins, players (level 15+) will be able to talk to Nipsy, the traveling Tabaxi, near the event dais in Protectors Enclave. Listen to Nipsy’s tale and enter the dungeon if you choose to accept the challenge!"
I must have missed the "GTFO" part. Reference, please.

"Why is that difficult to understand? That some people stayed away from the event because the game told them that they weren't good enough to do it?"
I think you are confusing recommended item level (an estimate of content difficulty) with an IL entry-restriction.
Some content is harder then others. They have the courtesy of warning you before you go in and get crushed. Why is that offensive?

"Yeah, sure some people may have played it because they had friends and guildies that either didn't mind carrying them along or that had already done it and knew that a lower IL would be fine for a run or two.
Me? No guild. No friends list."

I am not in a guild.
Yet I ran it 40-50 times across 5 toons (17k-14k).
If I couldn't get in a ToO LFG party with a weaker alt, did I complain to Cryptic?
Blame the el33ts?
Nope. I PMed some friends and made my own groups!

I play without a guild by choice because I have a strong and loyal friend list and have no problem getting in groups.
But if I didn't have many in-game friends I would sure as hell join a guild.
Guilds are essential if you are having trouble getting geared up or getting into groups.
You must get in a guild then.
There are literally hundreds of guilds begging for members. Joining a guild is easy. No excuse not to in your situation.

Not gonna diminish your experience nor defend the flawed release of ToO. Yeah, they HAMSTERED up.
But their main mistakes were bugs.
Elitist/selective (depending on your perspective) players are not new to this game and were not created by Cryptic.

callumf · March 2019

pitmonster#5684 said:

micheal1979 said:
I hate to say this, but with current ease to earn gear via barovia/seals most players could reach 16k. That being said form your own groups, to get my hr in I had to go buff and form the parties as most would like to see a different dps fill the slot (especially since I wont play combat). I know everyone is mad they weren't able to get carried by over geared players, but as stated above play behind the tank and go group by group and it wasn't bad with players sub 16k in the group. All games have this tricky balance of keeping hard content for players that are bored of low level easily attainable content and new players that want a lot of content with no effort ( this would include players that may have been around for years but invest no effort into improving). I know some will call me an elitist and some will agree, but I hope they continue putting on content that requires little to no item level and content that requires being end game. Everyone gets something.
Its going to take more then just barovia and seals gear to get to 16K... a lot more. I have most of my campaign boons and have Barovia gear with some Chult stuff and just at 14K. Frankly its the enchants and such that cost so much AD to raise. You either need to grind away for years or spend way too much money to get those up. I am working on it but its a slow grind.

Quoted for truth - getting to 13k iL isnt easy with Barovia Gear etc - takes a lot of enchants, insignia, guild boons, campaign boons to get to 16kiL

regenerde · March 2019

Well, we do have skirmishes/dungeons/raids in game, so why not simply use that for events to offer easy/medium/hard content for all players at the same time?
Players can either run 9 skirmishes, 6 dungeons or 3 raids to fill the daily event quota.
The Devs could just let the players decide on how they want to play through an event, without having to "exclude" any player directly or indirectly in the end.

cdnbison · March 2019

regenerde said:
Well, we do have skirmishes/dungeons/raids in game, so why not simply use that for events to offer easy/medium/hard content for all players at the same time?
Players can either run 9 skirmishes, 6 dungeons or 3 raids to fill the daily event quota.
The Devs could just let the players decide on how they want to play through an event, without having to "exclude" any player directly or indirectly in the end.

That might fly in mod16, but in Live right now? Not a chance. I'm pretty sure my Alliance could knock off the 3 Raids (Tiamat) in the time it took some groups to run a longer skirmish.

santralafax · March 2019

Can they just return the dungeons???! Once and for all

I didn't have a chance to run the event, but would welcome a chance to complete "Lair of the Mad Dragon"

The game has been holding those dungeons hostage for 10 mods now.

frogwalloper · March 2019

dread4moor said:
I must have missed the "GTFO" part. Reference, please.

The event description seems pretty inclusive to me.

"The optimal item level for this event is 16,000. If you are brave enough to dare the challenges and are not at that item level, do not let that stop you. Anyone entering the dungeon will be scaled up to the maximum level allowing everyone to tell a story."

wintersmoke · March 2019

,

frogwalloper#6494 said:

dread4moor said:
I must have missed the "GTFO" part. Reference, please.
The event description seems pretty inclusive to me.

"The optimal item level for this event is 16,000. If you are brave enough to dare the challenges and are not at that item level, do not let that stop you. Anyone entering the dungeon will be scaled up to the maximum level allowing everyone to tell a story."

Too many teal deers!

"Optimal Il is 16K... Okay LF4M for Event Multi-party. 17+ ONLY. No TR's"

namelesshero347 · March 2019

Optiomal iLvl? But if people get scaled UP to 16K, then isn't that really the minimum iLvl? Who want to run with, or even go out of the way looking for, min iLvl?

wintersmoke · March 2019

namelesshero347 said:
Optiomal iLvl? But if people get scaled UP to 16K, then isn't that really the minimum iLvl? Who want to run with, or even go out of the way looking for, min iLvl?

Players that are under 16kIL, and have never run the dungeon before, perhaps...

wylonus · March 2019

devs, simple fix for Tales of Old, scrap it, or redo what limited since it is too HARSH!

isnt this game meant as free to all players??? i dont see it that way. it is way too niche for specific targeted group of players, made the gap wider for haves and havenots.

havlocke · March 2019

wylonus said:
devs, simple fix for Tales of Old, scrap it, or redo what limited since it is too HARSH!

isnt this game meant as free to all players??? i dont see it that way. it is way too niche for specific targeted group of players, made the gap wider for haves and havenots.

As has been pointed out in previous posts, ANYBODY of ANY Item Level can join in and do at least the first two rounds. it only gets hard at round 3+. Are you seriously asking for people to be able finish all content (and the subsequent rewards) even if they don't have gear or are just bad? Asking for competency in build or play is not elitist.

Tales of Old is not possible for most characters.

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