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Mod 16 - Once again a failure a proper communication

mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,716Member Arc User
I first would like to thank the devs for sharing new on mod 16. With that said, you also left many questions where answers should have been provided.

First I would like to talk briefly about recovery and life steal. Both are being removed and both stats are found in boons, enchantments, gear, etc... with the removal of these stats either another stat will take its place and if so, that info should have been shared if you talk about removal of stats.

Second, level cap increase - this just means all additional work for new level 80 armor, rings, pants, shirts, artifact gear and weapons. It would be nice to know if this is the case and if so maybe a sneak peak at some of the gear / artifact gear would have been nice to see.

Third, are there additional changes you left out - such as adding a new level to mounts and what about companions, are there additional changes to companions?

Forth, you mentioned removal of the feat trees - it would have been nice to see one class updated feat area so we can all get a better picture of what type of change you mentioned.

Fifth, are you serious about capping crit chance at 50%? Hello, let me introduce you to power builds on old using the owlbear cub to get additional damage off when you do not land a critical hit. Who wouldn't take that over a crit build when zero crit ensures an extra damage hit.

I know many players now would like more info on mod 16 and hopefully you can keep them coming over the next couple weeks to explain the update better, because right now I see more panic than anything.
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Comments

  • dairyzeusdairyzeus Posts: 304Member Arc User
    This is just the big announcement about the overarching changes. I'm hungry for details too, but I'm guessing those will all be discussed in the upcoming preview threads
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Posts: 1,135Member Arc User
    lol overreacting to the initial announcement.

    Have some patience. Answers will come in due time. Did you expect them to hand you a Mod 16 training manual with the announcement? Do you watch teaser trailers for movies and then go on a rage because they didn't deliver plot lines?

    Every question you had will most likely be delved into once things actually hit preview and they start getting into the finer details of the changes. Class changes? Yeah I would expect to see a thread for every class again. Stat changes should be delved into. Feat trees should be a part of each individual class thread.

    As for sneak peeks at gear, do you like any surprises? Geezus. Gimme gimme gimme.

    We all want details. But i don't mind waiting for them to be presented in a good manner instead of a dumpster dive of information to sift through.

  • quikkill187quikkill187 Posts: 1Member New User
    Its about time this happened. I'm so tired of people running off and leaving the rest of the team behind in maps. Omg a CW tanking and doing most of the damage is just ridiculous. Team play is all but forgotten. Hell the only reason people team now is to just get a quest they can't get solo. Don't get me wrong I love powerful characters but being so powerful you don't need help is wrong. Its so bad sometimes it seems as though NeverWinter should be a solo game.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 717Member Arc User
    I agree with most that we need to wait and see, but don't expect that to stop or temper the howls of indignation that will follow with the removal of Lifesteal and Recovery from the stats. Personally I would have cautioned them not to release that info with some additional details but hey...that's their call.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Posts: 3,748Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    lol overreacting to the initial announcement.

    Have some patience. Answers will come in due time. Did you expect them to hand you a Mod 16 training manual with the announcement? Do you watch teaser trailers for movies and then go on a rage because they didn't deliver plot lines?

    Every question you had will most likely be delved into once things actually hit preview and they start getting into the finer details of the changes. Class changes? Yeah I would expect to see a thread for every class again. Stat changes should be delved into. Feat trees should be a part of each individual class thread.

    As for sneak peeks at gear, do you like any surprises? Geezus. Gimme gimme gimme.

    We all want details. But i don't mind waiting for them to be presented in a good manner instead of a dumpster dive of information to sift through.

    I expect them to show why we shouldn't panic. I think mcbengal has a very valid point here. they sprung a bunch of stuff on us which means great losses. they don't have a track record of everything turning up roses. they really need to communicate WHY it's different this time. or people WILL panic.
    I'll panic. They never did fix everything that mod 6 had dealt. Now we gotta pray they do it this time? New campaign with new gear, leaving all the old campaigns obsolete like with what happened in mod 6.

    What exactly is the purpose of places like IWD for existing? They never did update purified/corrupted black ice gear to be usable for the modern content so what's the point of grinding for them? All I can see them doing is leaving people just a bunch of old campaigns that exist for only boons and nothing meaningful with so much HAMSTER that serves no purpose for existing.

    Maybe if we were back in mod 2, where everything had it's part in everyday gameplay. The new gear, the older ones, still all usable and had a point of being in the game.
  • ilithynilithyn Posts: 452Member Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    All those questions will be answered in due time, I'm sure. The playtesters are still under NDA until it hits preview, but if the devs don't answer the questions before then, I'm sure everyone will be able to answer them when that happens. (Sorry if that's not the answer you wanted, but it's all I've got)

    And this is the problem. They're announcing major changes that WILL hurt the player base and then go "well you can wait to get the details about how screwed you are until we see fit to tell you". I'm with OP here, they're arrogant as hell. As per always.
    And we saw their "brilliant" and "detailed" communication about the changes last mod. Not to mention how much they listened to feedback.
    Oh wait, we didn't because it wasn't there.

    I was considering coming back in spite of hating mod 15 and everything to do with it, but if this is their level of communication with this many sweeping changes and completely upending the game then that's going to be a no from me. Because as it stands it promises to be mod 6 and 15 all over again, combined with the same level of (lack) of communication. If I want to not be heard and be met with total silence I'll just go visit my parents. It's probably cheaper too.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 717Member Arc User
    edited February 19
    I've said this before and in another thread, but It would be nice if they took a page from STO's crafting system and incorporated a method to allow us to use the professions to craft tokens that upgrade some of the stats our existing gear to the new level cap. Up to but under their endgame gear. I suspect that would really soften the blow on a lot of the changes coming our way. Just an idea. As it stands now, the announcement is a heads up but lacks a lot of details that would put much of the player base at ease. My two coppers.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • ayrouxayroux Posts: 4,271Member Arc User
    I think NOW is the ideal time to apply this "item level scaling" revamp to PVP!

    Just like you scale down end game characters for lower level content. Maybe they target "entry level end game" as the "scale-down" for PVP. So after this is all said and done and we have like 40k Item Level players against some new 12k Item Level player... it isnt so much of a ROFL stomp Because they maybe both get adjusted to like 20k or something....

    Basically "lessen" the gap between players in PVP - Using this new Item Level Scaling mechanism!
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,694Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Such pvp scaling would reduce the motivation to play to improve your character, as well as reducing the pressure to pay. Not going to happen.
    Time for a break. Will be back later to see if things have improved.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Posts: 3,748Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    I don't think it it's right that players who had access to testing are now reaping the benefits on the AH...

    Yeah, noticed that too....
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,216Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    That's their compensation
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • osu0148#5585 osu0148 Posts: 23Member Arc User
    > @demonmonger said:
    > That's their compensation

    Still doesn't make it right lol! Like these players did it for pure chivalry? Okay. They got to play around with a buggy module for a while. Really going to be nice to see people's reactions when this hits preview and the community gets to see what changes play testers were able to accomplish...
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,694Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    > @osu0148#5585 said:
    > Really going to be nice to see people's reactions when this hits preview and the community gets to see what changes play testers were able to accomplish...

    Well, you won't really see those because you will not see what rhe mod was like at the start of playtest.
    Time for a break. Will be back later to see if things have improved.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 276Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    lol overreacting to the initial announcement.

    Have some patience. Answers will come in due time. Did you expect them to hand you a Mod 16 training manual with the announcement? Do you watch teaser trailers for movies and then go on a rage because they didn't deliver plot lines?

    Every question you had will most likely be delved into once things actually hit preview and they start getting into the finer details of the changes. Class changes? Yeah I would expect to see a thread for every class again. Stat changes should be delved into. Feat trees should be a part of each individual class thread.

    As for sneak peeks at gear, do you like any surprises? Geezus. Gimme gimme gimme.

    We all want details. But i don't mind waiting for them to be presented in a good manner instead of a dumpster dive of information to sift through.

    I expect them to show why we shouldn't panic. I think mcbengal has a very valid point here. they sprung a bunch of stuff on us which means great losses. they don't have a track record of everything turning up roses. they really need to communicate WHY it's different this time. or people WILL panic.
    How can you tell those gona be great losses? Its gona be a completly new system.
    So there could be great losses but a great gains as well. Its always combined with any great rework.
    I already call it Neverwinter 2.0 cos thats exactly what incoming module is.
    People who cannot adopt will possibly quit, those who can will remain and develop. As always with every change. But then again somehow people expect a changes, a new stuff while they also expect that those new stuff wont change much. C'mon its not possible.

    When we talk about communication.
    Now, for the first time I will defend Cryptic - a bit, but when was the last time we - the players showed them any positive feedback not to mention a bit of respect? When was a last time we spoke as one? All mods all changes threads almost instantly was changed from polite discussion into rageing battles when players were fighting against each other. Thats a kind of community we are here. How they can communicate here if any1 of us expect different thing?
    I realised that just recently that they use announcemnts not discussions as we as player base are simply not able to work out a clear signal for them. Only when there is a bug (like CTA event) we more or less have a common point of view, but thats it. Very few of us can see a bigger picture. Most are interested with their own bussines here - no matter what that brings to game as whole system or the other classes.
    With such attitude we simply loose our chance to became real partners for the devs. And our mutually excluding expectations are not any good background to any discussions.
    No wonder that they decided to make a closed beta tests.


  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,716Member Arc User
    edited February 20

    lol overreacting to the initial announcement.

    Have some patience. Answers will come in due time. Did you expect them to hand you a Mod 16 training manual with the announcement? Do you watch teaser trailers for movies and then go on a rage because they didn't deliver plot lines?

    Every question you had will most likely be delved into once things actually hit preview and they start getting into the finer details of the changes. Class changes? Yeah I would expect to see a thread for every class again. Stat changes should be delved into. Feat trees should be a part of each individual class thread.

    As for sneak peeks at gear, do you like any surprises? Geezus. Gimme gimme gimme.

    We all want details. But i don't mind waiting for them to be presented in a good manner instead of a dumpster dive of information to sift through.

    I expect them to show why we shouldn't panic. I think mebengal has a very valid point here. they sprung a bunch of stuff on us which means great losses. they don't have a track record of everything turning up roses. they really need to communicate WHY it's different this time. or people WILL panic.
    Mod 6 apparently impacted the player base and many left as it significantly impacted the game. Mod 12b bonding runestones were adjusted many players also left the game. Mod 14 after corrective action was taken more players left the game. Players leave the game for one reason or another but typically it is do to a major change that they dislike. Mod 16 is a major change and I'm 100% certain without a doubt that some players will leave; how many will leave has yet to be determined.

    I do know that the more people have to pay or any changes that feels like a loss for the player the more likely a bigger population of players will leave. That is something to keep in mind. Some players will leave sooner than later simply do to not being able to manage change well.

    I see mod 16 changes as good and bad; I just would like more info before I make my decision if I will continue to play this game and if I will continue playing all three of my characters. The thing is though as someone who has spent resources both personal and in game on my characters I feel slighted a bit by the announcement of removal of recovery as the three characters I play are all built around recovery. This change will require me to adjust my character enchantments and there will be a cost here as well.

    The other thing is this last mod I just spent time getting new waist, neck and weapons. And it appears mod 16 do to moving up to level 80 I will eventually have to go out get the updated/new weapons, neck and waist that are level 80 vs level 70. This does not include going after the level 80 armor, rings, shirt, pants, and updated companion gear as well. This is all a cost to me given the bad luck I have when I go to rank up anything in this game.

    Than I have to look at the class changes to see how the changes impact my character and my focus on my enchantments. The other thing is the change to crit chance and it capping at 50% and now I have to adjust characters that are designed as DPS if I continue playing that characters to ensure I get the most of that characters.

    I also enjoy being able to build my character with the ability to act as a DPS, a support or a hybrid. I like having the ability to select how I build my character. With the announcement it seems like we will have less in how we design our character; this sounds like going backward and not forward in game design. Though some times less is more, not sure if that is the case here yet, because this one is definitely a wait and see item.

    Overall I find that this update will have many cost related items for players and if that is the case some players maybe tired of constantly needing to invest with each mod. As someone who mains a CW, every mod I have had to change 1-2 items that cost in game resources and sometimes real money do to how bad my luck is when I try to upgrade an item from epic to legendary or legendary to mythical. Forget going from a R10 to R14 enchantment. This seems like it is a major cost sink and I have a gut feeling we may see other changes that have not yet been announced that may impact our characters further.

    IMO we didn't need both a level cap and redoing all the character classes. I would have introduce one in one mod and the other in another mod. I would have staged the rollout they have planned for mod 16. It also would be easier to catch and fix bugs.
  • yeenoghu#2009 yeenoghu Posts: 25Member Arc User
    Only the strong survive.

    Reason they did two things in one mod is mostly because of how end-game dungeons is becoming. End game content done in 20 minutes or less is HAMSTER. Castle Ravenloft was a nice change of pace but in 30 minutes it can be done with the right club.

    Now, they could indeed have changed the classes for now and increase the cap with nex mod or mod and half. However, Undermountain is 5 levels which was a good way to allow for the level increase cap and bring new life to the game since now you get to relearn your class. They did both things in order to bring new excitment.
  • silvershard#4275 silvershard Posts: 95Member Arc User



    Overall I find that this update will have many cost related items for players and if that is the case some players maybe tired of constantly needing to invest with each mod. As someone who mains a CW, every mod I have had to change 1-2 items that cost in game resources and sometimes real money do to how bad my luck is when I try to upgrade an item from epic to legendary or legendary to mythical. Forget going from a R10 to R14 enchantment. This seems like it is a major cost sink and I have a gut feeling we may see other changes that have not yet been announced that may impact our characters further.

    IMO we didn't need both a level cap and redoing all the character classes. I would have introduce one in one mod and the other in another mod. I would have staged the rollout they have planned for mod 16. It also would be easier to catch and fix bugs.

    Dude, can you give the lottery numbers for this weekend while you're at it?

    You "FIND" that this update will...

    At best you should be using the word "speculate," "guess", or probably "worry"...

    If English is your second or third language I apologise, but with the evidence so far available there's nothing TO find.

    Some of the outrage and assumption being displayed here is worse than when they announced the title of the fourth Harry Potter book without a full synopsis, and people went mad about underage school kids drinking Flaming Sambucas.*


    (*that didn't really happen... I made it up to illustrate a point.)
  • ilithynilithyn Posts: 452Member Arc User

    The question for me is: why should we trust this dev team at all?

    They screwed up the launch of mod 15 in two dozen ways. They still haven't fixed +1 crafting items and in fact decided to lie to us and tell us they are "working as intended for now." They didn't fix issues that were reported on preview or afterwards.

    Their big ideas since then have been to limit player deaths in K-Team and Tales of Old as if we're in a video arcade. What's next, having to spend zen to run endgame dungeons?

    This team's record has been failures in competence, accountability and honesty. I don't trust them for one second to rewrite the entire game. It's beyond them in every way.

    Thank you for putting what I've been trying to say so succinctly.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • silvershard#4275 silvershard Posts: 95Member Arc User

    I first would like to thank the devs for sharing new on mod 16. With that said, you also left many questions where answers should have been provided.

    First I would like to talk briefly about recovery and life steal. Both are being removed and both stats are found in boons, enchantments, gear, etc... with the removal of these stats either another stat will take its place and if so, that info should have been shared if you talk about removal of stats.

    Second, level cap increase - this just means all additional work for new level 80 armor, rings, pants, shirts, artifact gear and weapons. It would be nice to know if this is the case and if so maybe a sneak peak at some of the gear / artifact gear would have been nice to see.

    Third, are there additional changes you left out - such as adding a new level to mounts and what about companions, are there additional changes to companions?

    Forth, you mentioned removal of the feat trees - it would have been nice to see one class updated feat area so we can all get a better picture of what type of change you mentioned.

    Fifth, are you serious about capping crit chance at 50%? Hello, let me introduce you to power builds on old using the owlbear cub to get additional damage off when you do not land a critical hit. Who wouldn't take that over a crit build when zero crit ensures an extra damage hit.

    I know many players now would like more info on mod 16 and hopefully you can keep them coming over the next couple weeks to explain the update better, because right now I see more panic than anything.

    So, first, you wanted them to let you know about Recovery and Lifesteal being removed, before they announced... what?
    I can't tell if you are angry because information wasn't all presented at once, or because they should have let you know something... before they let you know about it?
    (P.S. Lifesteal is not being removed from the game, but just from the list of main ratings. I imagine the "specific sources" that will continue to exist, will be as powers, feats or boons for those squishies who will still need a bit of LS when soloing.)

    Second. Additional work? Your complaint about an increased level cap is that it will involve "more work" for new gear. Right cos... that would never happen without a level cap... Was this increased level cap just their clever way of introducing the concept of "grinding for new gear" to Neverwinter?
    I personally saw no NEED for a level cap increase, but if there is a good rationale, and it drives the game forward then I'm happy to give it a bash.
    (I think the biggest HAMSTER a lot of people are going to have over the level cap is that they won't get previously earned XP fast tracked to level 80, since it seems to be quest or campaign based... but they won't say so...)

    Third. I'm pretty sure Mounts and Companions WILL see changes. They will have to. Otherwise that Tensers Floating Disc is going to be little more than a Posers Floating Podium... Whether the rumours you are clearly alluding to are true... well, we'll ALL just have to wait till they either drop the Preview, or more announcements are made, (but I don't think they need reminding...)

    Four. Feat trees? Yeah... it would have been "nice" to have had it ALL in one go, complete with charts and tables and pictures. But the fact they are letting the info out in small tranches is no reflection on what that info will contain. You understand that, right?

    Fifth. I'll answer this one for them, as I'm confident I know the answer. YES, they are serious about capping Crit at 50%. Well, no... 55% actually... what they don't go on to say is whether Crit Severity will change, or whether monsters will have fewer hit points...
    The point is, The old system was creeping everyone to 100% in lots of stats and... just go read the Blog again about how Opposing Roles will work not just in practice but as a form of future proofing gradient stat increases over time...

    Just because it wasn't part of the initial announcement, doesn't mean something hasn't been thought of and implemented as part of the Mod 16 Overhaul, (I'm laughing while writing this at the thought that I NEED to say this...). There will be further elaboration, and piece by piece detail on all these topics.

    And if you want a reason to maybe consider trusting them, the first thing I would say is that they didn't just go to the Preview Shard Forum, dump a load of open Threads about half arsed class balance changes and then HAMSTER off and do nothing for three weeks.

    You might not realise this, but THIS is a planned release of information over time.
    It is being thought through, and managed.
    You can tell that because people are still being kept under the NDA despite the initial release. And the way they have not opened any official threads.
    They have released, publicly, an announcement of intention, and will follow that up with timed releases.
    How do I know?
    It's what I used to do for a living. Admittedly, I was more into New product launch than relaunch or follow up, but I do know enough.

    The secret product testing, the NDAs, the announcement, Hell... even the way the announcements are phrased and worded... (No more "Hey you guys, WOW you are going to LOVE the new Mod... here's the fantastic way we are going to nerf your day!" just straight to the point.) are all more professional and balanced than I've seen from Cryptic in a very long time.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,716Member Arc User



    Overall I find that this update will have many cost related items for players and if that is the case some players maybe tired of constantly needing to invest with each mod. As someone who mains a CW, every mod I have had to change 1-2 items that cost in game resources and sometimes real money do to how bad my luck is when I try to upgrade an item from epic to legendary or legendary to mythical. Forget going from a R10 to R14 enchantment. This seems like it is a major cost sink and I have a gut feeling we may see other changes that have not yet been announced that may impact our characters further.

    IMO we didn't need both a level cap and redoing all the character classes. I would have introduce one in one mod and the other in another mod. I would have staged the rollout they have planned for mod 16. It also would be easier to catch and fix bugs.

    Dude, can you give the lottery numbers for this weekend while you're at it?

    You "FIND" that this update will...

    At best you should be using the word "speculate," "guess", or probably "worry"...

    If English is your second or third language I apologise, but with the evidence so far available there's nothing TO find.

    Some of the outrage and assumption being displayed here is worse than when they announced the title of the fourth Harry Potter book without a full synopsis, and people went mad about underage school kids drinking Flaming Sambucas.*


    (*that didn't really happen... I made it up to illustrate a point.)
    "Keep your eyes open while delving the layers of Undermountain, not just for dangers and traps, but for the glint of treasure hidden throughout. As players advance to level 80 so does the gear. Undermountain brings new equipment ranging from level 71 to 80, new seal gear, new dungeon equipment, and even new higher item level artifacts for players to enjoy."

    Speculation? I think not. The very last part of the quote above from the post by the dev clearly shows that players will have to invest in game resources or real world money, depending upon their luck, to upgrade the new higher IL artifacts. Now keep in mind artifacts in this game includes regular artifacts, weapons, neck and waist. Therefore my speculation is not speculation given this. I simply read what was written and expressed my concern over the fact that the company is once again pushing newer and shiny items our way that quite a few players will use real funds to acquire or to reach its max IL.

    As someone who just did this I'm not all that happy about needing to do it so soon. I was hoping my weapons would last a year like the Fey weapon did.


  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,275Member Arc User



    I personally saw no NEED for a level cap increase, but if there is a good rationale, and it drives the game forward then I'm happy to give it a bash.

    And coming up next in the Neverwinter Event Season... It's Bash the Devs! That's right folks, your favorite and mine. One at a time! No crowding, please! Hey now, hammers only, none of those Black Ice Picks!
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