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K Team Optimal Compositions: "Tanks FTW"

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  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,093Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 12


    On topic, if you have a support alt, your DPS toons do not need to run KTeam to get the lvl 600 gear.



    The "Omin IOU" vendor in the basement of AcqInc sells gear of any class to you.

    No kidding. Also not on topic since the topic is over-reliance on support classes and this is the REVERSE of addressing that concern.


    For example, my 4 support toons have equipped my lonely DPS toon with 600 gear.



    Still actually the reverse of being on topic.


    From what I hear, the 600 gear is not BiS for most DPS builds anyway.



    That depends on the class. There aren't really good options for head an body pieces for HRs due to stacking concerns about the buffs they provide (apparently some things with similar bonuses stack now, but those are level 450 and 480 pieces and a 3% melee buff isn't all that awesome compared to something that provides 2000 more power as well as some crit to get to the magic 100% mark, which of course isn't really 100% crit since the devs won't make HR function as advertised these last few years, but that's a whole other topic. But anyhow the 600 stuff is good for one or two pieces for combat HRs.


    There's no more DPS discrimination in KTeam then anywhere else. Not a major issue.

    Actually the entire point of this thread, which you started, is that more difficult K-Team content only works with over-reliance on support classes, so one questions whether you are actually the same person who wrote the original post.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 941Member Arc User

    Update:



    Cragmire Crypt KTeam week. CC is hardly considered challenging to endgame players, but there are two fights where this composition can save the run.



    The "Competing Adventure Party" and final boss both have special attacks and AoEs that can easily one-hit a squishy teammate.

    Make sure the tanks engage first.

    Make sure and that Divine Protector, Knights Valor and Astral Shield are up when the rest of the team enter.

    Averaging 1.3 tries/win on 6 toons this week.



    Overtanking still works in k-team.

    I like these updates and tactics advice thank you.

    [For me the pressures of trying to tank with a GF and me being way too slow on the keyboard with an non-optimal tank loadout [basically not enough Defense] I have decided to more or less retire my GF and play GWF for a while, it does seem like a walk in the park compared to the stress of trying to protect/tank underpowered teams in some of the not even close to endgame content.

  • tdknxt0tdknxt0 Posts: 3Member Arc User
    I've done every k-team so far without much difficulty and the only thing that has stayed constant throughout was that we had an OP tank and OP devo, and a DC. Rest was 'who wants to join k-team?' We even ran with 3 OPs when we did MSP. (the most painful one so far)
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,050Member Arc User
    Doing MSP k-team with a GF and 3 dps is a hard taks in my world, there is no "easy way".
    Further more in my world this game is and allways was centered arround support classes. Once it was much worse, near hard to stand, when you did read nothing else that lfm DC-DC-OP-GF. Things got better by downgrading burst ability from Conqueror GF a bit by fixing long lasting bugs (SWW) and by breaking the dominance of double DC setup.
    But anyway GF+devo+2xsupport still is the smoothest and mostly fastest way to absolve actual endcontent same as k team.
    Who ever say "it´s not", should ask himself, if he ever knew how to correctly buff with his support class.
    I run 4 Support classes: OP, GF, DC, and a SW, wich is fully stuffed for dps but is not asked to do so, neither in k-team nor in endcontent, even tough I know he can do good, since the ability to buff outweights the dps-setup if you run beside a good performing dps, same as the ability to save butts by instant heals on top.
    It is from no benefit to stuff another class as a full dps, wich is a pretty expensive trip, I accepted that cryptic way of classbalance. No need for endless and unsolved discussions any more :)
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 385Member Arc User
    tdknxt0 said:

    I've done every k-team so far without much difficulty and the only thing that has stayed constant throughout was that we had an OP tank and OP devo, and a DC. Rest was 'who wants to join k-team?' We even ran with 3 OPs when we did MSP. (the most painful one so far)

    you have not tried CR, have you ?
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,050Member Arc User
    @iamsmokingone#2455
    personally I think you did smoke too much and never stepped into k team at all.
    Amusing to read so much nonsense in one post, thanks for trolling. :)
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 385Member Arc User
    imigh t be a little drunk rignt nwa bjut imma say thisma, partysompostiion s are as they always were, ( core partu of OP prot/deo + dc AC +GF + mofhe/bnfr/hr/sw/ mof/ + adcc dps same as t always have been same will be
  • tdknxt0tdknxt0 Posts: 3Member Arc User
    > @leonidrex said:
    > I've done every k-team so far without much difficulty and the only thing that has stayed constant throughout was that we had an OP tank and OP devo, and a DC. Rest was 'who wants to join k-team?' We even ran with 3 OPs when we did MSP. (the most painful one so far)
    >
    > you have not tried CR, have you ?

    I've done CR as tank, healer, dps, and buffer, and got full Lord sets on 3 toons. :)

    What I'm trying to say is thst good teamwork and experience outweigh class composition.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 385Member Arc User

    Update:

    K Team ToNG week.



    This one was tough.



    ToNG has several "one-hit" hotspots.

    A standard rainbow or meta team (even high gear/high experience) has a very low probability of completing tong with zero deaths.



    Even our "3T FTW" comp [Prot, Devo, Tact, AC, DPS] had 3 deaths the first 2 groups, all at Ras Nisi.

    HAMSTERing painful!



    Focusing on synchronized mitigation at these 7 key hotspots, we had 1-try wins the last 5 groups [1 each GWF, SW, CW, HR and TR in the DPS spot... they all did well]:



    1) The "Coffin Puzzle" Room



    It's just the usual mobs, but one-hits happen when the party splits up to activate the coffins. If someone rushes the final coffin alone and unprotected (or aggros side-mobs while alone) this is a common wipe to the run.



    Solution:

    Stay together in the middle. Send just one fast toon to activate the first two. Then all engage the last coffin together, all defenses up (divine protector, astral shield, KV, etc).



    2) Shadows

    This includes the hallway after the "coffin room" and the square around Orcus. Getting caught alone with a shadow is a KTeam wipe.

    Solution:

    Engage together, Prot and Tact in front. DC spamming AA and heals while DPS burns them.



    In Orcus' room, be proactive. Seek out the wandering shadow pack first in this manner.

    Don't risk a straggling player getting choked-out while the rest are engaging the mob pack.



    When that shadow pack is dead, there should be just one more to deal with mixed in the middle mob pack. Have a tank mark this pack from a distance. This aggros the entire group , including the shadow. With Prot and Tact in front, the shadow will "uncloak" for everyone to target and kill. Kill it first before anything else.



    3)Orcus

    Ironically, he isn't a major 1 hit risk unless the tanks separate aggro and spin him.

    Solution:

    Have Prot and Tact stand close together. The rest is easy Orcus burn as usual.



    4)Puzzles

    In KTeam, solve them.

    All of them.

    Every mob pack is a chance to have someone die. Skip those puzzle-failure fights completely in KTeam.



    5) "Behind the scenes"

    Resist the temptation to pull all the mobs in the hallway leading to Withers together for one big fight.

    That's standard technique for "regular" ToNG, but a needless risk in KTeam. Some slow player is often left alone picking up the rear, leaving them vulnerable. Plus the multiple overlapping AoEs are a needless risk.

    Solution:

    Fight each of the three groups seperately. Slower, but safe and easy.



    6) Withers

    This fight breaks the theme of overtanking.

    One-hits happen when this fight takes too long, especially witb Golems and flame throwers.

    Withers needs a quick burn.

    Solution:

    Business as usual. Same strat as regular ToNG.

    Buff and burn.

    GF goes conqueror DPS or tact with buff/dps encounters. DC goes full buff (exalt, BtS). All stay close to the Prot and Devo. End it fast.



    7) Ras Nisi's "Ultimate" attack after the ghost phases.



    So this is what wiped us a few times. Every time it was a 1 hit on someone with stacks of Ras Nisi's Debuff. He hits through Divine Protector, AA and KV. If you have too many debuff stacks you are at high risk of a 1-hit. Normally, we don't care because at that point the dungeon is won. Just use a scroll or get rezzed.

    But in KTeam, it's a PAINFUL gameover.



    Solution:

    Avoid the red area/debuff at all cost, especially squishier toons.

    The debuff is much more dangerous in KTeam then regular ToNG.



    Conclusion:

    This was a tough KTeam.

    Many players are passing on KTeam this week. I can't blame them.

    Still, "3T FTW" had a better chance then any other comp.



    Any other advice for this nasty KTeam?

    first of all, i apologise if i sounded elitist in my drunken rambling from before, it was not my intention. secound of all. im currently tipsy so take what im going to type afterwards with a grain of salt. Things that CAN kill you in tong are
    1 Balls during orcus.
    2 Shadows.
    3 CC chain during sec boss.
    4 Wraith crit on a tank that doesnt expect it.
    5x Ras nisi paralyzne hits, debuffs, loss of comp, slow dps or throwing off platform.

    ~1 You just need to comunicate with voice chat, or have someone with sharp eye do the duty, best someone who has big rotation window between abilities, like SW or GF.
    ~2 ( most ammounts of deaths I had was due it ) Knowing the spots they spawn is crutial, there is a spot you can triger 1 shadw before engaging a pack of mobs, so it is a safe thing to do. Focusing them down when they do trigger. And also if you do not do traps, and start over near campfire, they sometimes spawn right after you exit, dont leave teammates behind!
    ~3 This one is rought, simply becouse most burden is on ACDC to keep CC immunity up. For example as devo paladin, i CANT outheal the damage, if acdc doesnt help with cc, stam drain constant stuns ensure that someone dies sooner or later. Killing Golem helps, since he has aditional LONG cc on his attack.
    ~4 This is more of a run it, taunt everything without paying attention, get hit for 300k crit and die type of deal, the pack of mobs right before ras nisi got me many times, dont underestimate them like i did many many times.
    ~4.1 Tomb dwarfs, sometimes they get triggered to attack by silly things like boon proc from heal, go as a team inside and when they aggro be fast to react.
    ~5 The beggining is odd, if you dps fast, i often have entire team lose comp due to bad timing with a ghost, if you dps VERY fast it doesnt happen, so i found it to not go 100% fast at the beggining to actually help out.
    Make sure to avoind is Paralyze attacks if you dont have immunities, and focusfire souls as a team, even weak teams can do so with good coordination. MICROPHONE IS THERE FOR A REASON :D .
    P.S Try to avoid armour shread, event the tankies of the tanky die if they have too many. They fall off if you dodge many times in a row.
  • krumple01krumple01 Posts: 562Member Arc User
    My question now is K-team even going to be worth agonizing over come mod 16?

    My argument for this is that if k-team only gives currency for the AI armor that will be obsolete when compared to the easier acquired Undermountain gear. Why would you go down the route that is more difficult when the gear obtained is not as good as gear that is easier to obtain? Players usually fall towards the easier common denominator with the least amount of effort UNLESS they are unaware of these facts.

    If k-team awards are only for AI gear then it has essentially become not worth doing. However; I know there will be players out there who will run it for the challenge aspect alone and care nothing for obtaining any gear. The problem with this is finding the party members who want to put in the effort to be successful. As it currently sits there is a very small margin of players who have the skills to survive k-teams. Players simply don't care enough to be contentious enough to stay out of red or avoid over endangering themselves in attack range of multiple hard hitting mobs.

    From my experience running as AC DC it only takes one player who really doesn't care about success to bring the party continuously down into the failure realm. As the posts suggest, it seems having tanks in the party increase the chances of success per tank added. Damage is nearly irrelevant outside boss fights.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,274Member Arc User
    leonidrex said:

    imigh t be a little drunk rignt nwa bjut imma say thisma, partysompostiion s are as they always were, ( core partu of OP prot/deo + dc AC +GF + mofhe/bnfr/hr/sw/ mof/ + adcc dps same as t always have been same will be

    I actually understood this... and it worries me a little.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Posts: 711Member Arc User
    leonidrex said:


    most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps :D

    Game never was intended to develop that way I think, it was just an unforeseen effect of a damage, buffing and debuffing system the devs did not really understand.

    With mod 16 most buffing and debuffing is gone, hard. So we are talking tank, heal, 3 dps.. with those dps possibly having some small buff/debuff. All dps should be more or less equal at same IL, and the dps difference between low IL and high IL should be way less.

    That boils down to any dps class being desirable for a dps slot, and IL differences mattering less. Lets see if the devs can pull it off without leaving too big differences between the classes.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 385Member Arc User

    leonidrex said:


    most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps :D

    Game never was intended to develop that way I think, it was just an unforeseen effect of a damage, buffing and debuffing system the devs did not really understand.

    With mod 16 most buffing and debuffing is gone, hard. So we are talking tank, heal, 3 dps.. with those dps possibly having some small buff/debuff. All dps should be more or less equal at same IL, and the dps difference between low IL and high IL should be way less.

    That boils down to any dps class being desirable for a dps slot, and IL differences mattering less. Lets see if the devs can pull it off without leaving too big differences between the classes.
    developers understood how buffs work very well, its simple math that kids learn when they are 8-9 years old. its not rocket science my friend. if i can increase dmg of dps for over 100% its mathematically better to do that then do grab another dps. simple as that. let alone have buffs of each class stack multiplicatively... and the problem with mod 16 changes is.... its BORING. NV has fast paced fun combat, gone in mod 16. I suggest watching galactic YT podcasts about mod 16 and you will see bigger perspective on mod 16, from multiple VERY DIFFERENT people that are interested in the game for different reasons.

    Ah but the balance. I trully believe that it WILL be HAMSTER up, and I promise you, that people like me, if the set they will to it. They find stupid comps that work, be it 4dps + tank that can heal ( pally ). or simply dps that hits so hard that he aggros, or healer that heals himself so much hes preety much tanking ( heals generate aggro ) . we find a way to abuse stupid systems. and we will make stupid meta again.
  • krumple01krumple01 Posts: 562Member Arc User

    leonidrex said:


    most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps :D

    Game never was intended to develop that way I think, it was just an unforeseen effect of a damage, buffing and debuffing system the devs did not really understand.

    With mod 16 most buffing and debuffing is gone, hard. So we are talking tank, heal, 3 dps.. with those dps possibly having some small buff/debuff. All dps should be more or less equal at same IL, and the dps difference between low IL and high IL should be way less.

    That boils down to any dps class being desirable for a dps slot, and IL differences mattering less. Lets see if the devs can pull it off without leaving too big differences between the classes.
    On preview I rounded up a party and we did CR without a tank. It was healing and dps. The experience was easier than on live. The thing is the new mechanic demands healing which is fine but it is also stressed to the point that if you have a good healer you will be fine taking damage. We steamrolled the sisters fight faster than ive ever seen done before. The second boss went down before second pillar. The boss fight against Strahd was finished before the entire mechanic played out.

    So unfortunately you don't need a tank if healing is on. You can actually over stress the mobs having extra dps available with a decent source of healing. The trash mobs were overwhelmed with the dps and not even a threat.

    After saying all this I bet 100% that this will be addressed. The problem is it will be a convoluted fix. Probably in the form of retarding healing by reducing it or increasing cool downs on big heals. I'm certain of it. But as it currently is you don't need a tank.

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