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Not a TR Fault ( Oppressive Darkness + Shadowy Opportunity )

tholan#1688 tholan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 204 Arc User
For ppl that don't verify the BUG section so often :

https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1244858/why-is-tr-dealing-piercing-with-everyting

Now, on that thread there was no Answers, not a single " ok, we know it " nothing.

Now you know why TR is and will always be so deadly in PvP.

But...this is not a TR Problem, is a dev problem, so i cannot accuse or flame against them, but...dev...this is a damn major problem, really, Piercing damage with EVERYTHING...

Ok, this time again with the TR class, but would be the same for any other class with something so devastating.

Maybe that in PVE is not a problem, so it has never been addressed, but in dominion.....c'mon....is unreal...

In the bug section the problem has been addressed from 10 DECEMBER 2018, 1 year is passed now :D.

And the problem is still there.

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Comments

  • jabobohjaboboh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 30 Arc User
    It's funny how fast they were able to fix the piercing problem with the HR a few mods back, but the TR's piercing has been problematic for ages.

    Not sure if it's a lack of will, or a lack of ability to address the problem. Either way, watching a player with 100 arm pen rack up 20+ kills a match is ridiculous.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Tr type classes often have armor bypass damage... it's like this in many games..... only thing is people expect it there and don't cry about it
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  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    Yeah, this has got to go away.

    I respecced my mid-range pvp TR toon, (meh gear, rnk8 enchants + moderate (ie. Cheap) vorp/eclipse chants, primal weps. About 13k in pvp) to the troll piercing meta, with 3k arpen that I couldn't get rid of, rest in recovery and power.

    Took her for a spin. Died a few times till I got the hang of the rotation and then boom, everybody got shredded. Literally, against an average toon, this build is a 4-button kill. Okay, you do have to hold the last button down, which I agree takes some skill...
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User

    Tr type classes often have armor bypass damage... it's like this in many games..... only thing is people expect it there and don't cry about it

    Name one.

    Second there is all matter of games where one or several classes can rank up tons of kills but there is NO game out there where that is combined with having the best defence x10 compared to other classes.

    No pvp part of any game can and would survive with having such a MAJOR broken class for so long as Tr has been in NW hence pvp is NW is a fraction of what it was and could be.

    10 players 6 classes and yet it is 4 Tr in almost every single match and the only reason you dont see more in each match is that that each class is capped at 2/team.

    It is close to pathetic to see you refer to other games when allt the argument about defending Tr in this game has run out years ago...
  • neko#1035 neko Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Why are these people crying about TR, I main a TR and these same people complaining are the one's I cant kill, CWs are really pain in the HAMSTER, more tankier than paladins and disintegrate can 1 shot me. HRs will root you to death and hits like a truck, and im using shadow opportunity and oppressive too and barely scratch the HP of these classes.
  • neko#1035 neko Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    and if TRs are really that broken/good, why not so many TRs topping the leader board, only some that are really BIS geared and the same TRs that has been playing PVP since i was born.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    neko#1035 said:

    and if TRs are really that broken/good, why not so many TRs topping the leader board, only some that are really BIS geared and the same TRs that has been playing PVP since i was born.

    1 Their autism is holding them back, they go for kills instead of the win.
    2 They take up TR slot in the team, to climb thet have to be better then enemy TR. As a paladin i dont tak up TR slot so if im good i still can have 2 broken TR in team, while broken TR can have only one.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    For ppl that don't verify the BUG section so often :

    https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1244858/why-is-tr-dealing-piercing-with-everyting

    Now, on that thread there was no Answers, not a single " ok, we know it " nothing.

    Now you know why TR is and will always be so deadly in PvP.

    But...this is not a TR Problem, is a dev problem, so i cannot accuse or flame against them, but...dev...this is a damn major problem, really, Piercing damage with EVERYTHING...

    Ok, this time again with the TR class, but would be the same for any other class with something so devastating.

    Maybe that in PVE is not a problem, so it has never been addressed, but in dominion.....c'mon....is unreal...

    In the bug section the problem has been addressed from 10 DECEMBER 2018, 1 year is passed now :D.

    And the problem is still there.

    ofc its a TR problem. If law allowed you to steal, would you do it? and would that not make you a thief? Is it a developers fault? yes. But TR players dont have clean hands themselfs.
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    Wow, another thread about tr. When will it ever end? lol
    Warlock- Lv80. || Rogue - Lv80. || Wizard - Lv80. || Paladin - Lv80. || Cleric - Lv80. || Ranger - Lv70. || Barbarian - Lv70. || Fighter - Lv70.

    ¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨

  • aixis2000aixis2000 Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited January 2019


    @leonidrex ...if its allowed it doesnt make u a thief cause it is no stealing...for the game it would be called "wai"

    Luddites comes in mind...
    Post edited by aixis2000 on
  • jabobohjaboboh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 30 Arc User
    aixis2000 said:



    @leonidrex ...if its allowed it doesnt make u a thief cause it is no stealing...for the game it would be called "wai"

    Luddites comes in mind...

    Not quite sure where you were going with the Luddite comparison.

    I think what @leonidrex is trying to say is that it would be nice if there was 'honour among thieves'. Yes I see the irony of using that for the TR class.

    With certain broken aspects of the game over the years, be it build/feats, gear (manticore being a recent example) or enchants, there has been an attempt to stop people from using it for the betterment of the game. With various success of course.

    Look at drains for example. Their use has dwindled down to almost zero in domination and when the odd player appears using them, there is usually universal condemnation. Because the community as a whole came to an unspoken agreement over time that they were bad for the game, it didn't take the devs to drastically reduce their use.

    So I don't think leonidrex was drawing a literal parallel between stealing and using the broken TR build. They are just hoping people would see what it does to matches and govern themselves accordingly. The same way Steven tried to create support for not using a GF build that took advantage of the SWW bug/exploit.

    Not saying it works, but there's nothing wrong with drawing attention to it and hoping for the best.

  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    > @marnival said:
    > Tr type classes often have armor bypass damage... it's like this in many games..... only thing is people expect it there and don't cry about it
    >
    > Name one.
    >
    > Second there is all matter of games where one or several classes can rank up tons of kills but there is NO game out there where that is combined with having the best defence x10 compared to other classes.
    >
    > No pvp part of any game can and would survive with having such a MAJOR broken class for so long as Tr has been in NW hence pvp is NW is a fraction of what it was and could be.
    >
    > 10 players 6 classes and yet it is 4 Tr in almost every single match and the only reason you dont see more in each match is that that each class is capped at 2/team.
    >
    > It is close to pathetic to see you refer to other games when allt the argument about defending Tr in this game has run out years ago...

    Knight online, c9 to name a few....

    Did you stop to think perhaps people that make tr are those inclined to pvp?

    Tr doesn't have the best defense...

    Everything is broken to you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    > @marnival said:

    > Tr type classes often have armor bypass damage... it's like this in many games..... only thing is people expect it there and don't cry about it

    >

    > Name one.

    >

    > Second there is all matter of games where one or several classes can rank up tons of kills but there is NO game out there where that is combined with having the best defence x10 compared to other classes.

    >

    > No pvp part of any game can and would survive with having such a MAJOR broken class for so long as Tr has been in NW hence pvp is NW is a fraction of what it was and could be.

    >

    > 10 players 6 classes and yet it is 4 Tr in almost every single match and the only reason you dont see more in each match is that that each class is capped at 2/team.

    >

    > It is close to pathetic to see you refer to other games when allt the argument about defending Tr in this game has run out years ago...



    Knight online, c9 to name a few....



    Did you stop to think perhaps people that make tr are those inclined to pvp?



    Tr doesn't have the best defense...



    Everything is broken to you...

    If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
    Same with TR, It looks broken, plays broken and numbers seem broken. its propably broken.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    (Runs by in stealth and deleted your posts as you type them) Tr for life!!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    etelgrin said:

    @mimicking#6533 for love of god please fix the trickster rogues for us PvP players in this new 2019 year!

    Trickster Rogue is dealing piercing damage with EVERYTHING and on top of that has strongest possible defensives available at hand, even at lowest item levels TR can be VERY to EXTREMELY hard to kill with ITC that also boosts damage lets do not forget that and have 75% base deflection severity to 85% with Foehammer potion, which effectively - because TRs have 97% deflection chance which equals effectively to 100%. Meaning you will only deal 15% of the damage done on top of all others possible mitigations such as defense or for example armor enchantments.

    All I ask for is address Rogue in 2019 please.

    im gonna be honest here, TR is broken and should be fixed. But deep down inside I do enjoy the challenge, and if they get fixed what is there that can kill my pally? there is only so many archers ....
  • slysnow#2290 slysnow Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    > @lordnemesis1981 said:
    > For ppl that don't verify the BUG section so often :
    >
    > https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1244858/why-is-tr-dealing-piercing-with-everyting
    >
    > Now, on that thread there was no Answers, not a single " ok, we know it " nothing.
    >
    > Now you know why TR is and will always be so deadly in PvP.
    >
    > But...this is not a TR Problem, is a dev problem, so i cannot accuse or flame against them, but...dev...this is a damn major problem, really, Piercing damage with EVERYTHING...
    >
    > Ok, this time again with the TR class, but would be the same for any other class with something so devastating.
    >
    > Maybe that in PVE is not a problem, so it has never been addressed, but in dominion.....c'mon....is unreal...
    >
    > In the bug section the problem has been addressed from 10 DECEMBER 2018, 1 year is passed now :D.
    >
    > And the problem is still there.

    Nitocris responded in the thread you linked. He/she was on holiday. Passed over the logs to others. I'm assuming this will be addressed soon.

    Side note: if they successfully fix this i see OPs and CWs being next. On console we don't have mod 15 yet however i can see a potential build making us unkillable unless ganked (we also gain bonus dps). GWFs and SWs probably nerfed after that (speed, lifesteal, burst, tankiness) e.t.c.

    OPs that spec straight tank can be unkillable even in a gank. Basically what im saying is at at a certain point pvp needs overhauled. If not every new mod some class will get nerfed because it will be unkillable/ broken.

    I just hope before (if) devs try a pvp overhaul that they talk with community first and take our ideas into consideration...
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    > @lordnemesis1981 said:

    > For ppl that don't verify the BUG section so often :

    >

    > https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1244858/why-is-tr-dealing-piercing-with-everyting

    >

    > Now, on that thread there was no Answers, not a single " ok, we know it " nothing.

    >

    > Now you know why TR is and will always be so deadly in PvP.

    >

    > But...this is not a TR Problem, is a dev problem, so i cannot accuse or flame against them, but...dev...this is a damn major problem, really, Piercing damage with EVERYTHING...

    >

    > Ok, this time again with the TR class, but would be the same for any other class with something so devastating.

    >

    > Maybe that in PVE is not a problem, so it has never been addressed, but in dominion.....c'mon....is unreal...

    >

    > In the bug section the problem has been addressed from 10 DECEMBER 2018, 1 year is passed now :D.

    >

    > And the problem is still there.



    Nitocris responded in the thread you linked. He/she was on holiday. Passed over the logs to others. I'm assuming this will be addressed soon.



    Side note: if they successfully fix this i see OPs and CWs being next. On console we don't have mod 15 yet however i can see a potential build making us unkillable unless ganked (we also gain bonus dps). GWFs and SWs probably nerfed after that (speed, lifesteal, burst, tankiness) e.t.c.



    OPs that spec straight tank can be unkillable even in a gank. Basically what im saying is at at a certain point pvp needs overhauled. If not every new mod some class will get nerfed because it will be unkillable/ broken.



    I just hope before (if) devs try a pvp overhaul that they talk with community first and take our ideas into consideration...

    well the thing is by specced right you mean building full tank, am I the crazy one here thinking that tank should be hard to kill?
    as for killing in a gank, its soooo easy, the fact that general population is incapable of chaining CC or timing big hits with buff/debuffs of other classes doesnt mean that sturdy characters shouldnt be sturdy. It is waaay too often that i survive 1v4, and only reason is that they throw 4-5 CC in the exact moment, and instead of being locked down for 15s, i can turtle up after 3-4.
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    With the mod 14 pre tr nerf and mod 15 nerf, most classes became way too tanky such as hr, cw, pally, dc, gf and gwf.
    There is no way to kill 2 players if one of the 2 is a devo pally or dc since tr lose combat advantage if they are outnumbered. Yes we have always combat advantage in stealth mode but still our piercing damage is reduced if we fight 2 or more solo ( 2v1 - 5v1) and our damage gets outhealed by dc or devo pally.
    I've seen more and more classes such as dc, gf, pally, hr, sw, gwf and cw stacking defense ( 15k - 25k) and deflect (15k - 25k) + using eclips enchants for extra 25% deflect chance.
    Most players forget that once you are cc'd, your 80% deflect chance will become useless.

    People also forget that tr is and will always be a number one killing machine at 1v1. If you disagree then please stop playing pvp and go enjoy pve or make a tr instead.



    Warlock- Lv80. || Rogue - Lv80. || Wizard - Lv80. || Paladin - Lv80. || Cleric - Lv80. || Ranger - Lv70. || Barbarian - Lv70. || Fighter - Lv70.

    ¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨

  • terylionterylion Member Posts: 56 Arc User

    > @lordnemesis1981 said:

    > For ppl that don't verify the BUG section so often :

    >

    > https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1244858/why-is-tr-dealing-piercing-with-everyting

    >

    > Now, on that thread there was no Answers, not a single " ok, we know it " nothing.

    >

    > Now you know why TR is and will always be so deadly in PvP.

    >

    > But...this is not a TR Problem, is a dev problem, so i cannot accuse or flame against them, but...dev...this is a damn major problem, really, Piercing damage with EVERYTHING...

    >

    > Ok, this time again with the TR class, but would be the same for any other class with something so devastating.

    >

    > Maybe that in PVE is not a problem, so it has never been addressed, but in dominion.....c'mon....is unreal...

    >

    > In the bug section the problem has been addressed from 10 DECEMBER 2018, 1 year is passed now :D.

    >

    > And the problem is still there.



    Nitocris responded in the thread you linked. He/she was on holiday. Passed over the logs to others. I'm assuming this will be addressed soon.



    Side note: if they successfully fix this i see OPs and CWs being next. On console we don't have mod 15 yet however i can see a potential build making us unkillable unless ganked (we also gain bonus dps). GWFs and SWs probably nerfed after that (speed, lifesteal, burst, tankiness) e.t.c.



    OPs that spec straight tank can be unkillable even in a gank. Basically what im saying is at at a certain point pvp needs overhauled. If not every new mod some class will get nerfed because it will be unkillable/ broken.



    I just hope before (if) devs try a pvp overhaul that they talk with community first and take our ideas into consideration...

    I said this many times. I have no problem with that some ppl ( classes ) made a tank's, and thay are very hard to kill. THis is ok. Ofcourse if that classes are just a tanks. Not a tank, dps, buffer, controller and more in same time. For now Tr Class give u that possibility, couse u can tank 5 ppl on node if u are good tr and u can kill 1by1 everyone arround. And this is biggest problem for now.
    Hr - archer, can kill every class by 2-3 shots, but other classes can kill him fast too. this is balance for me.
    So if u play a GF as tank, or OP as tank, in my opinion this is not a broken, when u can survive many attack from different sources.

    CHEARS.:)
  • aixis2000aixis2000 Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    Yes Tr is in a nice spot right now...well build he is far away from being a class cannon and even if he goes the "tanky" scoundrel he still dishes out decent dmg...but I think if devs fix the "piercing with everything" he would be more balanced than any other mod since open beta.
  • nrorocosulnrorocosul Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    It`s not true piercing, it still respects deflection ;)
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    Piercing doesn't ignore dodging and deflection unless you get cc'd then deflection drops to 0% and you get hit by full piercing or any kind of damage.
    I am sure a lot of you stacking deflection and trying to get 50 to 90% deflection chance but srsly.... whats the point of having that much of deflection if you dont have the dodge ability or you get cc'd ?

    Piercing does ignore defense. Now you learned something today lol.
    Warlock- Lv80. || Rogue - Lv80. || Wizard - Lv80. || Paladin - Lv80. || Cleric - Lv80. || Ranger - Lv70. || Barbarian - Lv70. || Fighter - Lv70.

    ¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨

  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Lol sure, but 50% of certain death is still certain death.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    Why is there nothing to find about that problem in the bug section?
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1244858/why-is-tr-dealing-piercing-with-everyting
    It´s a bug, needed to be fixed.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    Why is there nothing to find about that problem in the bug section?
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1244858/why-is-tr-dealing-piercing-with-everyting
    It´s a bug, needed to be fixed.

    there is, i asked the mods to move the thread to bug section. and admin already responded on the post. took a while but there was christmass so its understandable.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    It`s not true piercing, it still respects deflection ;)

    i love how you made brand new account just to post that :D . turns out people knew about the bug and didnt report, what a suprise that one.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    @deldrach propably shadowban
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