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How to have fun and profit from the new crafting system

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  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Posts: 34Member Arc User
    edited December 2018

    I want crafting to be something I don't have to check in on every few hours because I have a job and I need sleep.

    Yeah yeah, me too I have a job (already mention it) and I sleep, I even go outside during my freetime... no need to be a nolife running the game 18h/24h 7d/7d to use the crafting system with profits.

    I think it's pretty simple to say that crafting should be a way to profitably and sustainably produce items to augment a player's AD and RP income without having to tediously check in on every workshop every 2-3 hours

    I only check my workshops once (or twice) a day. I make AD with it, and I don't loose gold.
    As someone else said :

    And no, I am not going to explain to you how to profit off of professions, work that out yourself, all the information is out there. He is probably making more per day then you are making per year. But you keep up with that smug superior attitude, its cute.

  • someonediessomeonedies Posts: 1,126Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
  • kreatyvekreatyve Posts: 9,525Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    Let's keep the personal insults out of it. Debate is great, but there's no reason for naming calling or sarcastic replies.
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  • dheffernandheffernan Posts: 171Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Well, thanks to Myrrh and having a bunch of legacy exchange credits my main has the level 4 workshop. Fish Glue got most of my alts to level 3; a few are still stuck at the Box For Knox stage. I doubt I'll bother getting the alts to level 4.

    Of course, that leaves Masterwork as the next hurdle.
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  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,075Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    There is absolutely no point to leveling more than one shop to level 4. And if you didn't start this mod with an alt army with thousands of gold per character and hundreds of thousands of old materials credit per character, level 4 would be a sick joke. I'll have my alts up to level 3 the day after tomorrow at the latest. I'm only banging my head against the endless wall of RNG that is masterwork because with the introduction of morale (and the fact that I've had a mythic forgehammer for 2 years) it's less painful than under the old system. Still, the gold shortage means it's slower getting guild marks to get exploration maps now, because this whole system is either badly thought out or was designed to appeal only to those on the autism spectrum.

    And let's not forget that someone thought it would be hilarious to introduce this system and then run a siege event that takes up not 1 of 9 but 1 of 3 crafting slots if you choose to do it (which I don't).
  • naoqueroforumnaoqueroforum Posts: 225Member Arc User
    Hey @greyjay1 !
    Bought your +1 MH and my sw still sucks. What's your return policy?
  • nunya#5309 nunya Posts: 933Member Arc User
    I have three characters to level 4 workshop, as of this morning. I've used up most of my Material Exchange Currency on all my characters. My wife's characters still have stacks of MEC, but I haven't decided how or whether to use it. (She doesn't do professions. I do professions on her characters.) I like having the 30 delivery slots, even though I'm mostly just doing Crates of Astral Diamonds right now. I have decided I like Karmela, at least for tasks up to level 70 and the initial MW tasks for unlocking MW 1. I'm doing MW 1 in Alchemy on my warlock right now, mostly because:
    1. It's easy.
    2. I'm curious.

    I have no intention of going beyond MW 1 in anything for a very long time. I just don't have the cash to throw at it. I'm working hard on my guild and on my main character (my warlock), and there is not enough AD or gold for those tasks - let alone for MW. (On a happy, completely unrelated side-note, things so far are going swimmingly for preparing my guild to upgrade to level 12!)
  • greyjay1greyjay1 Posts: 120Member Arc User

    Hey @greyjay1 !
    Bought your +1 MH and my sw still sucks. What's your return policy?

    Did you try equipping the weapon? ;)
  • kvetkvet Posts: 2,669Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    Or am I fine with my 40-50min = 400kDA sales/ day ?

    Just thought I'd point out that if you're really making 400K a day, that means it will take you 13 days to upgrade your workshop to level 4. Assuming you really are making 400K a day, you should have your workshop to level 4 by the middle of next week.


    In my experience, Myrrh and exaulted heal potions are good reliable sellers, as are gold pendants. +1s are worth more of course, but regulars are OK too. I usually keep the +1 heals for myself :)
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,075Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    kvet said:


    Or am I fine with my 40-50min = 400kDA sales/ day ?

    Just thought I'd point out that if you're really making 400K a day, that means it will take you 13 days to upgrade your workshop to level 4. Assuming you really are making 400K a day, you should have your workshop to level 4 by the middle of next week.


    In my experience, Myrrh and exaulted heal potions are good reliable sellers, as are gold pendants. +1s are worth more of course, but regulars are OK too. I usually keep the +1 heals for myself :)
    Shhhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't you know you're breaking the Code of Profitable Crafters by saying things like that in public? Quick, take down this post or they'll come for you with their e-hammers and e-break your e-fingers one by one! Don't hint that anyone could check the price of items in the auction house or they'll really get angry! Only they are allowed to dispense such wisdom!

    For we, the peons of Neverwinter, must simply gaze in awe at the power and virility of those with vast amounts of AD, and like the hummingbird sipping the morning dew, we the small must be satisfied with what the great suffer us to have.

    In all seriousness, he mistyped 400k AD and wasn't talking about South Seas commission at all.
  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Posts: 34Member Arc User
    Bouarf... lol think what you want.
    If you are looking for assistantship, obviously i'm not the best interlocutor.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Posts: 933Member Arc User


    In all seriousness, he mistyped 400k AD and wasn't talking about South Seas commission at all.

    ???

    I'm confused because 5m AD == 5m SSTC credit, if you decide to spend your AD that way. I can't imagine that someone making 400k AD per day would have a problem doing exactly that.
  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Posts: 34Member Arc User
    edited December 2018


    In all seriousness, he mistyped 400k AD and wasn't talking about South Seas commission at all.

    ???

    I'm confused because 5m AD == 5m SSTC credit, if you decide to spend your AD that way. I can't imagine that someone making 400k AD per day would have a problem doing exactly that.
    I wouldn't ;). And the point is, as you said, "if you decide to spend your AD that way" ^^.
    Previously, on this topic :


    Question : is rank 4 really needed to make crafts profitable ?
    My opinion is no.

    6 more slots in the delivery box (very marginal advantage as soon as you are on 2h-3h crafts) and access to epic artisans as candidates is not requiered to be profitable

    So it's not where I spend the AD I earn ;).

    It's a choice, I maybe wrong to not upgrade to rank 4 as soon as possible (maybe one day will do it on my main toon), but I don't feel it as something urgent to be done right now (maybe it's because I was lucky on my epic RNGartisans while picking the "old system slot free artisan" though, but I don't think I would have change my point of vue even if i had picked the worst epics).
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,075Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited December 2018


    In all seriousness, he mistyped 400k AD and wasn't talking about South Seas commission at all.

    ???

    I'm confused because 5m AD == 5m SSTC credit, if you decide to spend your AD that way. I can't imagine that someone making 400k AD per day would have a problem doing exactly that.
    True. But since you can get there without spending AD by multiplying your materials exchange credits into 1.5 - 2x their amount in south seas credits I didn't think anyone who's at all worried about earning AD would use it that way.

    Post edited by feanor70118 on
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Posts: 1,371Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    @rainer#8575 has a YouTube channel. He already did the spreadsheet. Search Rainer + Neverwinter

    I'm well aware, and have the spreadsheet bookmarked. It's https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpX3qg6e32jzIzfM92Obfedz8tysP1zdgODwjfCKx8k/edit#gid=427950324 for those who don't already have the link.

    The spreadsheet, however, is only a list of artisans, tasks and so on. It does not calculate, for instance, how much gold each one will cost per day of crafting (plus up to 10 attempts at crafting level 70 items with morale). It does not calculate how much gold three gatherers and three crafters will consume in a day of crafting - that is something I learned from experience when the RNG saddled one of of my alts with expensive crafters and gatherers and failed to provide cheaper replacement applicants.

    The point is that system is economically unsound, illogical, unbalanced, time consuming and frustrating. It is in no way fun or a game - it's an exercise in self-flagellation. Since I am not a medieval monk - indeed there's no Monk class as yet - I don't enjoy it.

    This is a GREAT CHANCE for the Developers to Balance something that needs balancing - Making Artisans Balanced so that:
    • Epic Artisans are better than Rare Artisans
    • Rare Artisans are better than Common Artisans
    • Skills increase over time and use
    • Commissions increase up to 1 level over time and level increase as the artisan gets better
    • Speed increases up to 3 levels over time and level increase as the artisan gets better
    • All this should be prioritized so that NO player character balancing is done until the above is satisfactory to 90% of the player base.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Posts: 933Member Arc User


    @rainer#8575 has a YouTube channel. He already did the spreadsheet. Search Rainer + Neverwinter

    I'm well aware, and have the spreadsheet bookmarked. It's https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpX3qg6e32jzIzfM92Obfedz8tysP1zdgODwjfCKx8k/edit#gid=427950324 for those who don't already have the link.

    The spreadsheet, however, is only a list of artisans, tasks and so on. It does not calculate, for instance, how much gold each one will cost per day of crafting (plus up to 10 attempts at crafting level 70 items with morale). It does not calculate how much gold three gatherers and three crafters will consume in a day of crafting - that is something I learned from experience when the RNG saddled one of of my alts with expensive crafters and gatherers and failed to provide cheaper replacement applicants.

    The point is that system is economically unsound, illogical, unbalanced, time consuming and frustrating. It is in no way fun or a game - it's an exercise in self-flagellation. Since I am not a medieval monk - indeed there's no Monk class as yet - I don't enjoy it.

    This is a GREAT CHANCE for the Developers to Balance something that needs balancing - Making Artisans Balanced so that:
    • Epic Artisans are better than Rare Artisans
    • Rare Artisans are better than Common Artisans
    • Skills increase over time and use
    • Commissions increase up to 1 level over time and level increase as the artisan gets better
    • Speed increases up to 3 levels over time and level increase as the artisan gets better
    • All this should be prioritized so that NO player character balancing is done until the above is satisfactory to 90% of the player base.
    So .... your idea is to make sure that doing professions is super expensive in terms of gold costs if you do a lot of professions? I'm going to go with "no".
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Posts: 275Member Arc User
    @grogthemagnif
    You'll never see 90% of the player base agree to anything.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,075Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    @grogthemagnif

    You'll never see 90% of the player base agree to anything.

    I disagree.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,957Member Arc User
    kharkov58 said:

    If it was so easy that everyone could profit, then you would be measuring the profit in copper pieces because of competition.

    it shouldn't be for everyone. but it should be somewhat reasonable. it sounds like this is not somewhat reasonable.
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  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Posts: 1,371Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    kharkov58 said:

    If it was so easy that everyone could profit, then you would be measuring the profit in copper pieces because of competition.

    It's not that easy and for most the LOSSES are measured in GOLD.
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Posts: 1,371Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    @grogthemagnif

    You'll never see 90% of the player base agree to anything.

    I disagree.
    I agree with feanor.

    If we add up all those who have disagreed with the game and left and those who are still in the game and disagree with any one aspect of the game, we're probably close to 90%.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,075Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    kharkov58 said:

    If it was so easy that everyone could profit, then you would be measuring the profit in copper pieces because of competition.

    it shouldn't be for everyone. but it should be somewhat reasonable. it sounds like this is not somewhat reasonable.
    If I had written the original post according to the subject line instead of to point out as many flaws in the system as I coudl think of, it might have gone like this:

    1) Have a bunch of alts. The Recruitment thing gives you an incentive to have alts anyway, so put your usual dungeon runs on hold if you can and fill up some account slots.
    2) Choose one profession to max out (other than gathering) per alt.
    3) Figure out something low-level in that profession that you can make for gold.
    4) You probably have a main character maxed out in most professions. Use that one to make +1 tools for the others and max it out in the remaining professions.
    5) If you have extra gold and you maxed out jewelcrafting on multiple alts, have some characters make opals, have some make gold ingots, have one or two make shimmerweave thread. Harvest drake horn with one gatherer somewhere on your account. Between those things, you should be able to make whatever the top jewelry item is each day with all of your daily morale (except on your main, which will be busy doing other things) and donate it for commission. With 15 (now 16) characters I was able to raise almost one toon per day to a rank 3 shop, 2 shops per day during double professions. The same principle here works for any profession, and the bonus is that those that can make armor will usually have something available that sells for decent AD as a transmute.
    6) Raise your main shop to level 4. That's the one you'll (obviously) use for masterwork.
    7) Get yourself a -75% commission jeweler, armorer, leatherworker and/or tailor and another toon with maxed alchemy. You need MW alchemy stuff to make armor kits. Between the two you can sell kits for AD.
    8) In the meantime, sell brass rings (or whatever) to a vendor for gold while using daily morale to make opals after you're done upgrading your shops.
    9) Use your alchemy toon(s) to make workman's cordial. Lots of it. You'll need it to up your chances with every single masterwork task.
    10) If you already have a Foregehammer of Gond, raise it to mythic. If you don't, either get one or be prepared for a lot more disappointment than otherwise.
    11) Do mastercrafting. This means beating your head against a wall of RNG and guild marks for a long time or simply spending lots of AD.
    12) It may be more efficient in terms of time to just make gold and use that for guild marks than it is to make opals and donate those for guild marks. Whichever suits you, you need guild marks for MW.
    13) Eventually, profit by doing MW.
    14) It helps to have a personal guild for most of your alts to make it easier to share items via the guild bank.

    I started with a near-BIS character maxed in most professions (though not MW since I detest the RNG), ownership of a guild from before mod 6, and all my alts maxed in gathering and either maxed in jewelcrafting or on their way. I raised all my shops to level 3 just using old materials credit and morale. On the way I made some AD selling lower-ranked gems that I made with morale every day to level up alts in jewelcrafting. Since I don't need lots of AD (I have millions as well as perpetual bids for 5000 zen in the exchange) my focus is just on beating the mastercrafting grind now. It's less painful with only one tool and free morale each day. I still stand by the content of the original post for how painful the process is for anyone who doesn't start with vast amounts of gold and materials credit.

  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,957Member Arc User
    edited December 2018
    I've been levelling up mastercraft on my main toon. because I have a ton of legendary tools now even if no gond. (i'm going to grind for it or buy it when it gets cheap over christmas) it's cheapish right now to do it too because of all the vendors in stronghold selling things for gm and parts instead of having to rely on rng. does it make sense to get things levelled up all the way in mastercraft now before this new mod or is it better to wait? or is better to do like I've done so far and just stick at level 2 or so. I've got 4 or 5 professions at level 2. I was planning on hitting level 3 after the 20th with the guild marks thingy.

    you say mastercraft is easier now? I thought it was going to get worse. any tips for us console people on preparing for this other than stockpiling gold? (edit, I've got like 9 alts most of them have professions levelled to some degree but no mastercraft and I don't intend on going that crazy with it lol) I mostly just want to focus on one toon as a very part time thing.
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  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Posts: 34Member Arc User
    @feanor70118

    I mostly agree with you. It's obviously easier to make professions profitable or enjoyable if you had started mod15 with multiple toons already leveled in gathering + some others professions, than be the new player today and have to start form scratch.
    But that was also the case for the old system for leadership level 25 which was quite long (especially if you hadn't grabed purple artisans). Others professions were quicker to level up, and old Alchemy was a painful headeache in my opinion (mainly because of the poor readability of the old interface I think).

    The new system seems also, at the first glance, more complex to handle (in fact you get used to it really quickly, even more if your guild/ally has some nice "expert" in craft who had writen some quick [or big] explainations), so it's probably not what a new player want to put his time before a while (let's say before trying to grind SKT/Hegemony campaigns, where I think you start to feel real stagnation in your progression, so you try "other" possibilities in the game).

    But from scratch, all things being equal, hiting level 70 for your toon, hiting 11k IL, then 13k IL, then 15k IL, or be mastercraft I-II-III-IV-V, is only a matter of time (and into what you dedicate your playtime).
    I started neverwinter 2 years ago (during the SKT module). The guild I joined was level 5 with a philosophy "play as it please you", so no obligation to do guild stuff if you don't want to, and mostly casual (though you can also found in some hardcore gamers).
    Today, i'm on the endgame content (since 9 months maybe for "campaign/dungeons" with 3 toons, and recently for the craft with 1 toon), and our guild is curently building level 18 (i'm not the biggest donor in the mimic in this 2 years period, but without any doubt in the top 5).

    Slowly, but surely, things are going to be maxed out. Patience is the key (or tons of money if you are wealthy and crazy enough).



    Speaking of readability and user interface in craft, what i would be very happy to see is the ability, when you are looking at a recipe, to double click on one of the intermediate ingredient so the interface switches to the own recipe of this ingredient (so you wouldn't need to go back to search/bookmarks/profession lists of crafts).
    When you try to make some end line high mastercraft from the raw material, through all the intermediate crafts, it's actually quite painful (and a bit unefficient :P but hey, everyone do whatever he wants ;) ) without that option.

  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,075Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    If by harder you mean that the base percentage might be a few per cent lower, I can't see the point. You get ten free shots at the RNG every day with morale. The cost of resetting your daily morale with AD is about the same as completing two tasks with AD under the old system. So, given enough materials, you get 20 shots at the RNG every day for the old cost of two. If you're smart enough to have your materials and a bunch of +1 workman's cordial lying around, even without spending AD you shouldn't need more than a couple of days per level of MW per profession to finish.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,957Member Arc User

    If by harder you mean that the base percentage might be a few per cent lower, I can't see the point. You get ten free shots at the RNG every day with morale. The cost of resetting your daily morale with AD is about the same as completing two tasks with AD under the old system. So, given enough materials, you get 20 shots at the RNG every day for the old cost of two. If you're smart enough to have your materials and a bunch of +1 workman's cordial lying around, even without spending AD you shouldn't need more than a couple of days per level of MW per profession to finish.

    my understanding of the new system is faint. I just did the tutorial on pc. so I have a tiny glimmer. I've been trying to follow along on the forum to some degree.. but this is really all greek to me when it comes to the details. if I am understanding you. it's absolutely not worthwhile to do any leveling of masterwork at this point until the new mod drops for us?
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  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Posts: 34Member Arc User
    @feanor70118

    I mostly agree with you. It's obviously easier to make professions profitable or enjoyable if you had started mod15 with multiple toons already leveled in gathering + some others professions, than be the new player today and have to start form scratch.
    But that was also the case for the old system for leadership level 25 which was quite long (especially if you hadn't grabed purple artisans). Others professions were quicker to level up, and old Alchemy was a painful headeache in my opinion (mainly because of the poor readability of the old interface I think).

    The new system seems also, at the first glance, more complex to handle (in fact you get used to it really quickly, even more if your guild/ally has some nice "expert" in craft who had writen some quick [or big] explainations), so it's probably not what a new player want to put his time before a while (let's say before trying to grind SKT/Hegemony campaigns, where I think you start to feel real stagnation in your progression, so you try "other" possibilities in the game).

    But from scratch, all things being equal, hiting level 70 for your toon, hiting 11k IL, then 13k IL, then 15k IL, or be mastercraft I-II-III-IV-V, is only a matter of time (and into what you dedicate your playtime).

    Slowly, but surely, things are going to be maxed out. Patience is the key (or tons of money if you are wealthy and crazy enough).



    Speaking of readability and user interface in craft, what i would be very happy to see is the ability, when you are looking at a recipe, to double click on one of the intermediate ingredient so the interface switches to the own recipe of this ingredient (so you wouldn't need to go back to search/bookmarks/profession lists of crafts).
    When you try to make some end line high mastercraft from the raw material, through all the intermediate crafts, it's actually quite painful (and a bit unefficient :P but hey, everyone do whatever he wants ;) ) without that option.



    @thefiresidecat
    I don't think it's a waste of time to continue trying to reach a higher level in mastercraft before the new mod15 arrive, but it's really easier (but may cost more) in the new one in my opinion.
    I would although, if I were you, be careful and try not to be in an inbetween leveling quest before the mod comes live to avoid any loss of progression when transition would be done (I remember some of the mastercraft quests were restarted on PC at the beginning of the mod15, not sure if there was loss of progression for some players as I had finished all I had started).
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Posts: 275Member Arc User
    If you're in the middle of a multi-part masterwork levelling task, you'll want to finish that. Most likely it will reset and you will lose all progress. Aside from that, you might want to farm materials and wait for the mod to drop.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,075Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    If by harder you mean that the base percentage might be a few per cent lower, I can't see the point. You get ten free shots at the RNG every day with morale. The cost of resetting your daily morale with AD is about the same as completing two tasks with AD under the old system. So, given enough materials, you get 20 shots at the RNG every day for the old cost of two. If you're smart enough to have your materials and a bunch of +1 workman's cordial lying around, even without spending AD you shouldn't need more than a couple of days per level of MW per profession to finish.

    my understanding of the new system is faint. I just did the tutorial on pc. so I have a tiny glimmer. I've been trying to follow along on the forum to some degree.. but this is really all greek to me when it comes to the details. if I am understanding you. it's absolutely not worthwhile to do any leveling of masterwork at this point until the new mod drops for us?
    Having not done anything except alchemy I (which I had forgotten) before this mod, I'm not the best person to reply. I didn't think MW was worth doing at all before because, as I've said, I hate being cheated by the RNG. If you have a mythic forgehammer or near equivalent I'd say just get all your MW materials gathered now, get everything leveled to 25, and use them under the new system.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,957Member Arc User

    @feanor70118






    @thefiresidecat
    I don't think it's a waste of time to continue trying to reach a higher level in mastercraft before the new mod15 arrive, but it's really easier (but may cost more) in the new one in my opinion.
    I would although, if I were you, be careful and try not to be in an inbetween leveling quest before the mod comes live to avoid any loss of progression when transition would be done (I remember some of the mastercraft quests were restarted on PC at the beginning of the mod15, not sure if there was loss of progression for some players as I had finished all I had started).

    ty that's very helpful. it's not difficulty I'm really concerned with but cost considerations. the getting caught between levels is very very helpful. lol. I hadn't thought of that.
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