So having Trascendent Flaming means that after like a second of two of combat we'll be dealing 17% damage with every attack/proc and that every second (at 3 stacks) the dot deals 33% weapon damage to the target.
Plus the 3% debuff. And the lolAOE.
Now i kind of understand that whole jamming thing and why Flaming needs that "1 attack per second" speed. There's no way a simple graph could properly explain such a weird enchantment.
Looks like my GWF won't be swinging a flaming sword afterall
Thanks for the explanation. That really cleared things up
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
> @rjc9000 said: > This comparison compares Transcendent Weapon Enchantments on most classes (except CW, because Sharp did it, and DC, because I'm lazy and I felt bad plagerizing Sylux's work). > > This has been in development in a while and I'm pretty sure I did a lot of work that a lot of class mains already know. But, here's the data, in the event you wish to compare things for yourself. > > Link: > > https://goo.gl/ShMWHV > > Shoutout to the people who edited and gave me feedback to make this comparison as accurate as I could: > > @thefabricant > @michela123 > @dupeks > @falkon84 > @greyjay1 > @micky1p00 > @dairyzeus
Nice work... but your data on dazing strike is incorrect. I has no target cap in stealth
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
So having Trascendent Flaming means that after like a second of two of combat we'll be dealing 17% damage with every attack/proc and that every second (at 3 stacks) the dot deals 33% weapon damage to the target.
Plus the 3% debuff. And the lolAOE.
Now i kind of understand that whole jamming thing and why Flaming needs that "1 attack per second" speed. There's no way a simple graph could properly explain such a weird enchantment.
Looks like my GWF won't be swinging a flaming sword afterall
Thanks for the explanation. That really cleared things up
The Flaming DoT slider represents how many DoT stacks you have ticking per hit. I probably should have wrote that better, but, tbh, I never really expected people to bother with Flaming so much, given how difficult it is to use.
There are a few GWFs out there who have notable success with Flaming on longer boss fights. Lazalia is a prime example, though I wonder why he would need a "long boss fight enchant" if he's a GWF who can destroy 99.9% of all bosses within a few seconds...
---
I honestly would say, if you really like the flaming sword look, then go for it!
You will have to accept that it is going to be weaker than Holy or even Terror for speed burns.
However, Flaming is at least usable on GWF, so maybe if you use it enough, you can develop a unique style that gives even the BiS Holy/Terror using GWFs a run for their money...
I speak as a weirdo who plays Moon Elf DPS GF. It's a stupid choice, given that Moon Elf does barely anything useful for DPS GF. But, I make it work (somehow) and it's way too much of a part of me as a player that I wouldn't give up the blue hair, even if I know I'm at a disadvantage compared to Half Orc/Lizard GFs...
Well, I might like it and everything, but for now (read: a few months) I won't be having nowhere near enough ADs to afford it, so I'll have a LOT of time to think about it. Maybe 12b will lower the weapon enchantments' prices so we'll see more affordable stuff.
Meanwhile I'll be rocking my trusty lvl 8 Lifedinker.
Hey @rjc9000 if it isn't too much can you test the hr's aimed strike and rapid strike damage comparison with weapon enchantments? Just wondering if it would be worth using it with lightning as I use them both and find they're (rapid strike) is better than split due to proc activation of combat's capstone. Just curious is all.
Hey @rjc9000 if it isn't too much can you test the hr's aimed strike and rapid strike damage comparison with weapon enchantments? Just wondering if it would be worth using it with lightning as I use them both and find they're (rapid strike) is better than split due to proc activation of combat's capstone. Just curious is all.
I will give them a test Eventually™ (busy testing Soul Sight Crystal right now), though, from prediction, I can't see them being very good with Lightning or Lightning being very good on HR in general.
Well, I've updated the guide with @dupek's original edits on the proof of the DPS Increase formula (I didn't put them in during the original release due to just wanting to get it out before it became a work in progress forever).
I've completed GF/GWF unparalleled enchants stuff, though I don't feel like working further on UP stuff until the "dailies can proc Fey's % of wpn dmg" change comes to preview (or live). Same goes to adding Bronzewood: I really don't want to compare it until a fix to the debuff stacking comes on live/preview.
Also, @eliybeats, I just tested and compared Aimed Strike and Rapid Strike. Here are the graphs (also present in the actual document).
Thanks @rjc9000. This was really helpful regardless. Especially with fey. Just seeing the numbers needed for optimal usage from it with every power is more than enough. Thanks once again man.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
There are a few GWFs out there who have notable success with Flaming on longer boss fights. Lazalia is a prime example, though I wonder why he would need a "long boss fight enchant" if he's a GWF who can destroy 99.9% of all bosses within a few seconds...
Hey!
Answering to that question. I'm not always running with end-game groups, I still love to go to public queue sometimes, just for fun. Therefore, the most optimized party isn't going to be around and there are certain scenarios where the Flaming is going to shine when compared to other enchantments. Is it a bad enchantment? Definitely no, it's cheap and it gets the job done. Additional bonus: looks awesome. When I'm running with optimized groups, I have to use one that will increase my burst damage instead.
@rjc9000 I would like clarification on the flaming enchantment and what exactly you mean by jamming.
Examples:
I am using the flaming enchantment and I do 2 attacks every second. After 3 attacks the target now has maximum stacks. Does your reference to jamming mean that the 4th 5th and 6th attacks, etc will not have a DoT added because the attack speed is so fast that it cannot be applied until the stacks are removed over time?
Or
I am using the flaming enchantment and I do 2 attacks every second. Because I'm attacking so fast the flaming enchantment is not able to apply the DoT extra damage resulting in jamming the DoT damage?
Another thing I was wondering if you knew off hand or have time to test the flaming enchantment AoE burst damage. Is that damage once every 20 seconds per a target or just once every 20 seconds?
Looking at the two scenario, the first scenario is how I expect the enchantment to work. If a class is able to attack well beyond 1 attack per a second than the cap on the number of stacks will ensure that the faster attacking classes would not gain any benefit from a slower attacking class from the DoT on the flaming enchantment. However, if a class is not able to attack at the optimal speed it does not benefit from the flaming enchantment.
If the enchantment works as stated in the second scenario than the enchantment is bugged due to it not being able to add DoT due to the class attack speed and should be fixed.
The the AoE burst damage is by target than a smart player using flaming would be able to gain the burst bonus damage by setting up targets to be hit by AoE at-wills and encounters to process multiple AoE burst hits among the targets. If it is simply a timed, than the flaming enchantment is not as stellar as it could be if the burst was by target.
Allright, 12b is on us. I heard there would be some changes, like TRs' Smoke Bomb and Path of the Blade proccing Lightning or something. Is that a thing? Please tell me TRs are gonna be able to throw POISON LIGHTNING STORM CLOUDS. That would be glorious.
As a heads up/semi update/PSA, I know that 12.5 has changed a lot of things. However, I'm putting off updates due to all the upcoming Bugtober fixes/changes to weapon enchants/powers would create a lot of editing work for me, and I'm generally rather short on time as is right now.
And consoles haven't received any changes, so I'd rather avoid a situation where, say, I say Fey is completely fixed, and then a Xbox player reads my section on Fey and thinks Fey is completely fixed on Xbox, when Xbox/PS4 still have to deal with buggy Fey...
Allright, 12b is on us. I heard there would be some changes, like TRs' Smoke Bomb and Path of the Blade proccing Lightning or something. Is that a thing? Please tell me TRs are gonna be able to throw POISON LIGHTNING STORM CLOUDS. That would be glorious.
I don't think the Smoke Bomb/Path of the Blade fixes made it into the 12.5 patch (trust me, if it did, I know I'd have 2 angry TRs yelling at me to stop being a baka and to work on testing the fixed powers, respectively). I believe the devs specifically said they were "fixed internally", which means they won't show up until Mod 13.
Assuming they get fixed and the entity change won't be applied to them, then yes, I can see the Smoke Bomb/Path of the Blade Lightning storm.
Aww, that's too bad. TRs could really use some love right now. Enchantments (except Vorpal and Fey) mostly don't work on their abilities.
Well, most enchants actually do work with TR abilities (Terror and Bilethorn and other proc enchants work off Duelist's Flurry *edit derped HITS). There are a few exceptions (ex: Duelist Flurry Bleed doesn't proc Terror or Flaming or any other proc enchants), but for the most part, TR DPS benefits most from Vorpal/Fey at the moment.
And while I think TRs do need some sort of buff, I feel that most TRs find their kit and feat choices underwhelming, rather than their choice of enchantments.
One of the selling points of Fey is the 18% damage buff. Now, dps obviously stack damage % multipliers (read: Archons, Siege Master) which are multiplicative with each other. The more multipliers we have the more they increase our damage.
I suck at math so I might have not understood it properly: in your formulas all the buffs (except for the fey) are kept out of the formula because they are factored out. Does that mean that that+18% from fey DOESN'T "get more important" even if you have all the damage multipliers in the world?
I mean, if we have like a total of +25% or whatever damage from companions, would the dmg increase from fey be the same as if we had 1% or 9000+% damage increase from other sources?
The DPS increase from the Fey will be the same regardless of however many companions or buffs you're using (except if you're using Combat Advantage or Critical Severity companions).
Since you know the +% damage comps are multiplicative, we can mathematically consider them to be buffs. Thus, for the same reasons we can factor out Power or external buffs like Destroyer's Purpose, we can factor out any of the +% damage bonus companions.
The DPS increase from the Fey will be the same regardless of however many companions or buffs you're using (except if you're using Combat Advantage or Critical Severity companions).
Since you know the +% damage comps are multiplicative, we can mathematically consider them to be buffs. Thus, for the same reasons we can factor out Power or external buffs like Destroyer's Purpose, we can factor out any of the +% damage bonus companions.
Fey is only good at Trans ranking+ and it is so good that it is BiS for all DPS classes due to how it works. It is probably to good to make it past mod 14 without it being adjusted. I see so many DPS now rocking a Fey over any other enchantment, this includes GWF, TR, HR, DCs, GF, OP, etc....almost all players I run who are chasing the paingiver charts are running a Fey.
The DPS increase from the Fey will be the same regardless of however many companions or buffs you're using (except if you're using Combat Advantage or Critical Severity companions).
Since you know the +% damage comps are multiplicative, we can mathematically consider them to be buffs. Thus, for the same reasons we can factor out Power or external buffs like Destroyer's Purpose, we can factor out any of the +% damage bonus companions.
Fey is only good at Trans ranking+ and it is so good that it is BiS for all DPS classes due to how it works. It is probably to good to make it past mod 14 without it being adjusted. I see so many DPS now rocking a Fey over any other enchantment, this includes GWF, TR, HR, DCs, GF, OP, etc....almost all players I run who are chasing the paingiver charts are running a Fey.
But Fey didn't change with Mod13, it didn't get better...
What you're seeing is mostly the result of the WE proc behavior rework, which resulted in most enchantments proc'ing less often for most classes (1x per power). For some classes that multi-proc'ed WE's frequently, this was a major decrease to their damage when using Lightning et. al.
What we should be advocating for is an upward balance pass for the enchants that were just nerfed, not a nerf on fey
The DPS increase from the Fey will be the same regardless of however many companions or buffs you're using (except if you're using Combat Advantage or Critical Severity companions).
Since you know the +% damage comps are multiplicative, we can mathematically consider them to be buffs. Thus, for the same reasons we can factor out Power or external buffs like Destroyer's Purpose, we can factor out any of the +% damage bonus companions.
Fey is only good at Trans ranking+ and it is so good that it is BiS for all DPS classes due to how it works. It is probably to good to make it past mod 14 without it being adjusted. I see so many DPS now rocking a Fey over any other enchantment, this includes GWF, TR, HR, DCs, GF, OP, etc....almost all players I run who are chasing the paingiver charts are running a Fey.
But Fey didn't change with Mod13, it didn't get better...
What you're seeing is mostly the result of the WE proc behavior rework, which resulted in most enchantments proc'ing less often for most classes (1x per power). For some classes that multi-proc'ed WE's frequently, this was a major decrease to their damage when using Lightning et. al.
What we should be advocating for is an upward balance pass for the enchants that were just nerfed, not a nerf on fey
Notice how a lotta people using fey is similar to literally HAMSTER everyone using Vorpal a few mods ago. People are using fey less often than vorpal before, so I honestly doubt they'll do much about fey. And there are classes that heavily rely on it because the only other options are critsev enchants which are getting more and more pointless. And some classes like SW and HR really dont proc enchants often enough for them to use anything other than buff enchants, so nerfing fey would just be another option killed off.
The DPS increase from the Fey will be the same regardless of however many companions or buffs you're using (except if you're using Combat Advantage or Critical Severity companions).
Since you know the +% damage comps are multiplicative, we can mathematically consider them to be buffs. Thus, for the same reasons we can factor out Power or external buffs like Destroyer's Purpose, we can factor out any of the +% damage bonus companions.
Fey is only good at Trans ranking+ and it is so good that it is BiS for all DPS classes due to how it works. It is probably to good to make it past mod 14 without it being adjusted. I see so many DPS now rocking a Fey over any other enchantment, this includes GWF, TR, HR, DCs, GF, OP, etc....almost all players I run who are chasing the paingiver charts are running a Fey.
But Fey didn't change with Mod13, it didn't get better...
What you're seeing is mostly the result of the WE proc behavior rework, which resulted in most enchantments proc'ing less often for most classes (1x per power). For some classes that multi-proc'ed WE's frequently, this was a major decrease to their damage when using Lightning et. al.
What we should be advocating for is an upward balance pass for the enchants that were just nerfed, not a nerf on fey
Fey is unique when compared to the other enchantments that also start off with a cooldown for its buff. Bronzewood and Frost are similar to the Fey at Rank 7 through Rank 11. All have a 10 second uptime with the buffs/debuff and than a 20 second cooldown. The Fey is the lone enchantment that drops the cooldown timer at Rank 12. I know the Fey was like this prior to Mod 12.5 and in fact it was like this a year ago. Fey has not really changed all that much.
In fact, Fey was always a good enchantment at Rank 12 due to the damage bonus a player got. The thing is though not many players ran the Fey due to how other enchantments worked with other class features that were broken and allowed some classes to perform quite well damage wise. The devs has fixed these issues and modified how enchantments proc. Now the Fey is clearly superior to all enchantments on bosses. Any smart player wanting to clear content ASAP will be running a Fey. Since the Fey is clearly BiS and is so much better than the other options. When the enchantments were redone over a year ago, the Devs stated that Vorpal and Dread will be best and the other enchantments will be brought up to these enchantments. Currently Fey is a bit better than the Vorpal and Dread.
With the Fey being better than the Vorpal and Dread; as far as I can tell there are four probable options that the devs can do to make the Vorpal and Dread better than the Fey.
Option 1) Adjust the Fey so it has the cooldown timer Option 2) Adjust the bonus damage on the Fey Option 3) Adjust the player starting base crit severity value Option 4) For the Dread adjust the Necro damage to be based on the player power and the Vorpal is adjusted to have additional physical damage on each damage proc also based on the player power.
Options 1-3 will be easier than option 4. Option four would require touching two weapon enchantments and if there is a greater chance of error making those enchantments well above any other enchantments.
Of the option 1-3; the one that makes the most sense from my PoV is adding back the cooldown timer to the Fey enchantment since it is the lone enchantment that went from having a cooldown timer to not having one at R12. The problem I forsee with this change is that like option 4 it may require additional tweaking and that could cause additional issues that the devs should avoid. Out of all the option I like option 2 the best. A minor tweak to the bonus damage would get the Fey more inline with the other enchantments and move the Vorpal and Dread back to the top spots, but not like they previously were prior to mod 11. All enchantments would be more viable.
The other option is option 3. This change would also make Dread and Vorpal top as well but it would drop the value of all other enchantments, so that is why I prefer option 2.
I don't know how much the damage bonus will have to change.
These are of course my thoughts on this issue. How the devs go forward with enchantments changes, if they do at all, it is their call on the issue.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
The DPS increase from the Fey will be the same regardless of however many companions or buffs you're using (except if you're using Combat Advantage or Critical Severity companions).
Since you know the +% damage comps are multiplicative, we can mathematically consider them to be buffs. Thus, for the same reasons we can factor out Power or external buffs like Destroyer's Purpose, we can factor out any of the +% damage bonus companions.
Fey is only good at Trans ranking+ and it is so good that it is BiS for all DPS classes due to how it works. It is probably to good to make it past mod 14 without it being adjusted. I see so many DPS now rocking a Fey over any other enchantment, this includes GWF, TR, HR, DCs, GF, OP, etc....almost all players I run who are chasing the paingiver charts are running a Fey.
1. You say it's too good to not be adjusted - what's the damage difference between vorpal and fey for lets say TR? 2. Why is the negative connotation of "chasing the paingiver" ? Why not say "People who want to be efficient", or "Play better" or even "been able to help to lower geared players, and complete the dungeon with worse groups" ?
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
With the Fey being better than the Vorpal and Dread; as far as I can tell there are four probable options that the devs can do to make the Vorpal and Dread better than the Fey.
Why Vorpal and / or Dread should be better than Fey? Devs also said that Coal wards will be in the trade bar shop.. so..?
Fey had an important bug fix, and it was before the enchantments changes, it was at mod 11.5 or so. Vorpal and Dread wasn't changed. And even with that bug, Fey was still used as is, before, it was just one per party. The overall balance between Fey and Vorpal is more or less the same in all the resent mods.
So why is the attempt to change or nerf something suddenly? Just because some of us understood that in some group composition enchant X is better than Y at some percent ? All 3 enchantments didn't change in a significant way (some bug fixes), so because the meta changed an enchantment needs a nerf because you don't like pink color but still want to chase paingiver?
Disclimer, I have more T.Vorpals than alts I play, and dreads and what not. I can care less on a personal level which one is the best, the hoarder in me has them all.
The Fey is the lone enchantment that drops the cooldown timer at Rank 12. I know the Fey was like this prior to Mod 12.5 and in fact it was like this a year ago. Fey has not really changed all that much.
Fey was decent, and relatively balanced (overtuned in PVP for sure, but actually OK in PvE)
not many players ran the Fey due to how other enchantments worked with other class features that were broken and allowed some classes to perform quite well
Some other enchantments worked better for dps because of multi-procing, which had always been a part of the game.
devs has fixed these issues and modified how enchantments proc. Now the Fey is clearly superior to all enchantments on bosses.
The devs reworked multi-procing (for a variety of not clearly articulated reasons, I would argue performance / ability to balance are legit), effectively dramatically nerfing proc-based enchantments on a number of classes.
So in the context of: 1) Fey was OK 2) Everything else was nerfed 3) Now Fey is slightly stronger than other options
Option 4) For the Dread adjust the Necro damage to be based on the player power and the Vorpal is adjusted to have additional physical damage on each damage proc also based on the player power.
I think this means buffing Dread and Vorpal by making them more similar to the proc-based enchants. The only non-nerf suggestion, if I understand you correctly. Which I'm OK with (buffing other enchants) but I'd prefer to leave the variety and tweak the unique component (crit sev value).
So in a nutshell, given this started with a nerf, why advocate for more nerfs? Here are my ideas:
1) drop the cooldown for other R12+ support enchantments 2) tweak the enchantments to be more distinct / offer a better tradeoff of damage to utility (increasing debuffs or adjusting up damage on unloved enchants) 3) maybe adjust up crit severity values for vorpal and dread, similar to your option 4
Fey is unique when compared to the other enchantments that also start off with a cooldown for its buff. Bronzewood and Frost are similar to the Fey at Rank 7 through Rank 11. All have a 10 second uptime with the buffs/debuff and than a 20 second cooldown. The Fey is the lone enchantment that drops the cooldown timer at Rank 12. I know the Fey was like this prior to Mod 12.5 and in fact it was like this a year ago. Fey has not really changed all that much.
In fact, Fey was always a good enchantment at Rank 12 due to the damage bonus a player got. The thing is though not many players ran the Fey due to how other enchantments worked with other class features that were broken and allowed some classes to perform quite well damage wise. The devs has fixed these issues and modified how enchantments proc. Now the Fey is clearly superior to all enchantments on bosses. Any smart player wanting to clear content ASAP will be running a Fey. Since the Fey is clearly BiS and is so much better than the other options.
Yes, we get it, you dislike Fey and think Fey will get nerfed.
Could you please stop spamming threads about your personal vendetta against Feytouched?
Since the Fey is clearly BiS and is so much better than the other options. When the enchantments were redone over a year ago, the Devs stated that Vorpal and Dread will be best and the other enchantments will be brought up to these enchantments.
I think it would be "BfY" if you read the dev posts with more care.
They never outright said they wanted Vorpal and Dread to be the very best over everyone else, they said that they wanted other enchants to be similar enough to Vorpal and Dread. If people found other enchantments to be better/worse, then so be it, but Vorpal/Dread would never be changed, only its competitors.
The Design Goal The goal is NOT to make these other WEs better than Dread or Vorpal. The goal is just to get them onto the same playing field. Given how much some players have invested in their WEs, and how much effort it is to switch to a new one, we’d rather the new WEs come in a bit below Dread/Vorpal rather than above (because we don't want to be obsoleting anything). In any case, it’s still a really dramatic buff to all these WEs.
[...]
Ideally, we’ll end up in a place like this:
[...]
people with Dreads and Vorpals are happy to keep them
[...]
The big question we want input on is, does the extra damage you are getting seem right (given whatever else the WE does)? Remember the goal is overall comparable to Vorpal/Dread, but not always better. When you tell us what you find, be sure to mention what your power is and what the WE is saying its bonus is (the tooltip should adjust as your power does).
Fey was decent, and relatively balanced (overtuned in PVP for sure, but actually OK in PvE)
Well, comparatively speaking, Vorpal was relatively balanced against Feytouched.
Because Feytouched used to have a bunch of crippling bugs that made it borderline unusable unless you were one of the lucky few classes without said bugs.
Except, all those bugs got killed off in Module 12, leaving Feytouched without any of its weaknesses and only its strengths. Don't you love it when the devs balance something around if it's bugged or not? (*coughsSWcoughs*)
Feytouched used to have a bunch of crippling bugs that made it borderline unusable unless you were one of the lucky few classes without said bugs.
Except, all those bugs got killed off in Module 12, leaving Feytouched without any of its weaknesses and only its strengths. Don't you love it when the devs balance something around if it's bugged or not? (*coughsSWcoughs*)
Haha oh that's right, thanks for the trip down memory lane.
It's really hard to keep everything straight, because such a dramatic portion of the end-game meta depends on bugs (including interactions that are overperforming and excluding those that are underperforming). This game's balance and current meta is inseparably dependent on the bug meta.
Makes thorough discussion of build performance kind of silly sometimes. Any conclusions that rely too heavily on "overperforming" bugs need to be avoided / talked about softly, even if they are long-standing and unaddressed.
is a link to a very WIP version of the updated comparison. I chose GWF to compare first because its damage is comparatively simple to write and calculate for, unlike, say, the TR's SoD.
I do not know when I will finish, or if I even finish at all, but I suppose this is a start.
Comments
Plus the 3% debuff. And the lolAOE.
Now i kind of understand that whole jamming thing and why Flaming needs that "1 attack per second" speed. There's no way a simple graph could properly explain such a weird enchantment.
Looks like my GWF won't be swinging a flaming sword afterall
Thanks for the explanation. That really cleared things up
> This comparison compares Transcendent Weapon Enchantments on most classes (except CW, because Sharp did it, and DC, because I'm lazy and I felt bad plagerizing Sylux's work).
>
> This has been in development in a while and I'm pretty sure I did a lot of work that a lot of class mains already know. But, here's the data, in the event you wish to compare things for yourself.
>
> Link:
>
> https://goo.gl/ShMWHV
>
> Shoutout to the people who edited and gave me feedback to make this comparison as accurate as I could:
>
> @thefabricant
> @michela123
> @dupeks
> @falkon84
> @greyjay1
> @micky1p00
> @dairyzeus
Nice work... but your data on dazing strike is incorrect. I has no target cap in stealth
There are a few GWFs out there who have notable success with Flaming on longer boss fights. Lazalia is a prime example, though I wonder why he would need a "long boss fight enchant" if he's a GWF who can destroy 99.9% of all bosses within a few seconds...
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I honestly would say, if you really like the flaming sword look, then go for it!
You will have to accept that it is going to be weaker than Holy or even Terror for speed burns.
However, Flaming is at least usable on GWF, so maybe if you use it enough, you can develop a unique style that gives even the BiS Holy/Terror using GWFs a run for their money...
I speak as a weirdo who plays Moon Elf DPS GF. It's a stupid choice, given that Moon Elf does barely anything useful for DPS GF. But, I make it work (somehow) and it's way too much of a part of me as a player that I wouldn't give up the blue hair, even if I know I'm at a disadvantage compared to Half Orc/Lizard GFs...
Meanwhile I'll be rocking my trusty lvl 8 Lifedinker.
I've completed GF/GWF unparalleled enchants stuff, though I don't feel like working further on UP stuff until the "dailies can proc Fey's % of wpn dmg" change comes to preview (or live). Same goes to adding Bronzewood: I really don't want to compare it until a fix to the debuff stacking comes on live/preview.
Also, @eliybeats, I just tested and compared Aimed Strike and Rapid Strike. Here are the graphs (also present in the actual document).
Aimed Strike
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/kiwqbsd7ns
Rapid Strike
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/ioj4wdztzm
Answering to that question. I'm not always running with end-game groups, I still love to go to public queue sometimes, just for fun. Therefore, the most optimized party isn't going to be around and there are certain scenarios where the Flaming is going to shine when compared to other enchantments. Is it a bad enchantment? Definitely no, it's cheap and it gets the job done. Additional bonus: looks awesome. When I'm running with optimized groups, I have to use one that will increase my burst damage instead.
@rjc9000 I would like clarification on the flaming enchantment and what exactly you mean by jamming.
Examples:
I am using the flaming enchantment and I do 2 attacks every second. After 3 attacks the target now has maximum stacks. Does your reference to jamming mean that the 4th 5th and 6th attacks, etc will not have a DoT added because the attack speed is so fast that it cannot be applied until the stacks are removed over time?
Or
I am using the flaming enchantment and I do 2 attacks every second. Because I'm attacking so fast the flaming enchantment is not able to apply the DoT extra damage resulting in jamming the DoT damage?
Another thing I was wondering if you knew off hand or have time to test the flaming enchantment AoE burst damage. Is that damage once every 20 seconds per a target or just once every 20 seconds?
Looking at the two scenario, the first scenario is how I expect the enchantment to work. If a class is able to attack well beyond 1 attack per a second than the cap on the number of stacks will ensure that the faster attacking classes would not gain any benefit from a slower attacking class from the DoT on the flaming enchantment. However, if a class is not able to attack at the optimal speed it does not benefit from the flaming enchantment.
If the enchantment works as stated in the second scenario than the enchantment is bugged due to it not being able to add DoT due to the class attack speed and should be fixed.
The the AoE burst damage is by target than a smart player using flaming would be able to gain the burst bonus damage by setting up targets to be hit by AoE at-wills and encounters to process multiple AoE burst hits among the targets. If it is simply a timed, than the flaming enchantment is not as stellar as it could be if the burst was by target.
And consoles haven't received any changes, so I'd rather avoid a situation where, say, I say Fey is completely fixed, and then a Xbox player reads my section on Fey and thinks Fey is completely fixed on Xbox, when Xbox/PS4 still have to deal with buggy Fey... I don't think the Smoke Bomb/Path of the Blade fixes made it into the 12.5 patch (trust me, if it did, I know I'd have 2 angry TRs yelling at me to stop being a baka and to work on testing the fixed powers, respectively). I believe the devs specifically said they were "fixed internally", which means they won't show up until Mod 13.
Assuming they get fixed and the entity change won't be applied to them, then yes, I can see the Smoke Bomb/Path of the Blade Lightning storm.
And while I think TRs do need some sort of buff, I feel that most TRs find their kit and feat choices underwhelming, rather than their choice of enchantments.
One of the selling points of Fey is the 18% damage buff. Now, dps obviously stack damage % multipliers (read: Archons, Siege Master) which are multiplicative with each other. The more multipliers we have the more they increase our damage.
I suck at math so I might have not understood it properly: in your formulas all the buffs (except for the fey) are kept out of the formula because they are factored out. Does that mean that that+18% from fey DOESN'T "get more important" even if you have all the damage multipliers in the world?
I mean, if we have like a total of +25% or whatever damage from companions, would the dmg increase from fey be the same as if we had 1% or 9000+% damage increase from other sources?
The DPS increase from the Fey will be the same regardless of however many companions or buffs you're using (except if you're using Combat Advantage or Critical Severity companions).
Since you know the +% damage comps are multiplicative, we can mathematically consider them to be buffs. Thus, for the same reasons we can factor out Power or external buffs like Destroyer's Purpose, we can factor out any of the +% damage bonus companions.
What you're seeing is mostly the result of the WE proc behavior rework, which resulted in most enchantments proc'ing less often for most classes (1x per power). For some classes that multi-proc'ed WE's frequently, this was a major decrease to their damage when using Lightning et. al.
What we should be advocating for is an upward balance pass for the enchants that were just nerfed, not a nerf on fey
In fact, Fey was always a good enchantment at Rank 12 due to the damage bonus a player got. The thing is though not many players ran the Fey due to how other enchantments worked with other class features that were broken and allowed some classes to perform quite well damage wise. The devs has fixed these issues and modified how enchantments proc. Now the Fey is clearly superior to all enchantments on bosses. Any smart player wanting to clear content ASAP will be running a Fey. Since the Fey is clearly BiS and is so much better than the other options. When the enchantments were redone over a year ago, the Devs stated that Vorpal and Dread will be best and the other enchantments will be brought up to these enchantments. Currently Fey is a bit better than the Vorpal and Dread.
With the Fey being better than the Vorpal and Dread; as far as I can tell there are four probable options that the devs can do to make the Vorpal and Dread better than the Fey.
Option 1) Adjust the Fey so it has the cooldown timer
Option 2) Adjust the bonus damage on the Fey
Option 3) Adjust the player starting base crit severity value
Option 4) For the Dread adjust the Necro damage to be based on the player power and the Vorpal is adjusted to have additional physical damage on each damage proc also based on the player power.
Options 1-3 will be easier than option 4. Option four would require touching two weapon enchantments and if there is a greater chance of error making those enchantments well above any other enchantments.
Of the option 1-3; the one that makes the most sense from my PoV is adding back the cooldown timer to the Fey enchantment since it is the lone enchantment that went from having a cooldown timer to not having one at R12. The problem I forsee with this change is that like option 4 it may require additional tweaking and that could cause additional issues that the devs should avoid. Out of all the option I like option 2 the best. A minor tweak to the bonus damage would get the Fey more inline with the other enchantments and move the Vorpal and Dread back to the top spots, but not like they previously were prior to mod 11. All enchantments would be more viable.
The other option is option 3. This change would also make Dread and Vorpal top as well but it would drop the value of all other enchantments, so that is why I prefer option 2.
I don't know how much the damage bonus will have to change.
These are of course my thoughts on this issue. How the devs go forward with enchantments changes, if they do at all, it is their call on the issue.
2. Why is the negative connotation of "chasing the paingiver" ? Why not say "People who want to be efficient", or "Play better" or even "been able to help to lower geared players, and complete the dungeon with worse groups" ?
Devs also said that Coal wards will be in the trade bar shop.. so..?
Fey had an important bug fix, and it was before the enchantments changes, it was at mod 11.5 or so. Vorpal and Dread wasn't changed. And even with that bug, Fey was still used as is, before, it was just one per party.
The overall balance between Fey and Vorpal is more or less the same in all the resent mods.
So why is the attempt to change or nerf something suddenly? Just because some of us understood that in some group composition enchant X is better than Y at some percent ?
All 3 enchantments didn't change in a significant way (some bug fixes), so because the meta changed an enchantment needs a nerf because you don't like pink color but still want to chase paingiver?
Disclimer, I have more T.Vorpals than alts I play, and dreads and what not. I can care less on a personal level which one is the best, the hoarder in me has them all.
So in the context of:
1) Fey was OK
2) Everything else was nerfed
3) Now Fey is slightly stronger than other options
Your suggestions are... Nerf Fey
Not clear on this one... is this nerfing everyone's crit severity so that the crit severity enchantments become relatively better? I think this means buffing Dread and Vorpal by making them more similar to the proc-based enchants. The only non-nerf suggestion, if I understand you correctly. Which I'm OK with (buffing other enchants) but I'd prefer to leave the variety and tweak the unique component (crit sev value).
So in a nutshell, given this started with a nerf, why advocate for more nerfs? Here are my ideas:
1) drop the cooldown for other R12+ support enchantments
2) tweak the enchantments to be more distinct / offer a better tradeoff of damage to utility (increasing debuffs or adjusting up damage on unloved enchants)
3) maybe adjust up crit severity values for vorpal and dread, similar to your option 4
Could you please stop spamming threads about your personal vendetta against Feytouched?
kthxbai I think it would be "BfY" if you read the dev posts with more care.
They never outright said they wanted Vorpal and Dread to be the very best over everyone else, they said that they wanted other enchants to be similar enough to Vorpal and Dread. If people found other enchantments to be better/worse, then so be it, but Vorpal/Dread would never be changed, only its competitors. Well, comparatively speaking, Vorpal was relatively balanced against Feytouched.
Because Feytouched used to have a bunch of crippling bugs that made it borderline unusable unless you were one of the lucky few classes without said bugs.
Except, all those bugs got killed off in Module 12, leaving Feytouched without any of its weaknesses and only its strengths.
Don't you love it when the devs balance something around if it's bugged or not?
(*coughsSWcoughs*)
It's really hard to keep everything straight, because such a dramatic portion of the end-game meta depends on bugs (including interactions that are overperforming and excluding those that are underperforming). This game's balance and current meta is inseparably dependent on the bug meta.
Makes thorough discussion of build performance kind of silly sometimes. Any conclusions that rely too heavily on "overperforming" bugs need to be avoided / talked about softly, even if they are long-standing and unaddressed.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/30qbx4u55epvc8t/(Alpha) GWF Weapon Enchant Comparison - Copy.xls?dl=0
is a link to a very WIP version of the updated comparison. I chose GWF to compare first because its damage is comparatively simple to write and calculate for, unlike, say, the TR's SoD.
I do not know when I will finish, or if I even finish at all, but I suppose this is a start.