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Mod12b PvE DpS CW Build Guide

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    modlesiemodlesie Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    Can we even call CW a DPS nowadays? >:)
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    masterogamasteroga Member Posts: 474 Arc User
    ^^ well when you compare a pure DPS loadout to other classes and their pure damage load outs....not really. The only time a CW will blow other classes out of the water is when you do massive pulls (letting their target cap-less skills really shine)
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    mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    In the document it states:"focus on capping Crit and ArPen"

    What is the cap of Crit and Armor Pen? My RI is 114%, I assume cap is 100%, yes?

    thank you

    RI: 85%
    Critical Chance: 100%

    If you are above these stats, lower them and get more power or recovery. Recovery should be around 6-8 with spell twisting and 10K+ without spelling twisting.

    As for stats at around 15K+ IL with R13 enchantments your stats should be around this...

    Resistance Ignore: 85%
    Critical Chance: 85-100% (Did some testing and around 85% you critical hits almost all the time, though a few yellow can pop up)
    Recovery: 6k+
    Power: 45K+ (with R13 bonding)


    Hope this helps you out.

    Polaris armor is far more approachable to take, rather than Amiculum.

    3GMOP compared to amiculum that's 1.5 mil AD just for the extra 1000-1500 power... Not a very good deal for just "BiS" title.

    BiS will depend upon your stats. If you lack power and crit, than yes the Amiculum will be a good chest plate due to its extra power. However, as Sharp has pointed out, power comes from your DC and OP and with it coming in big chunks I rather get armor pen, crit or recovery from my chest plate than power. It is why I use primal over the other pieces. Same as the head piece. You need to figure out your stats and use the piece that will get you to the stats need to optimize your character.

    If I need more armor pen and crit I run with the pieces that will provide those stats over power or recovery, etc....



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    lukejones77lukejones77 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 282 Arc User


    As for stats at around 15K+ IL with R13 enchantments your stats should be around this...

    Resistance Ignore: 85%
    Critical Chance: 85-100% (Did some testing and around 85% you critical hits almost all the time, though a few yellow can pop up)
    Recovery: 6k+
    Power: 45K+ (with R13 bonding)

    What do you mean by "(with R13 bonding)"? Do you mean "with R13 bonding *procced*"?

    I think its difficult to make proper sense of recommended stat numbers without stipulating that the values are after bondings have procced.
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    d3cepti0n#1453 d3cepti0n Member Posts: 73 Arc User

    Critical Chance: 85-100% (Did some testing and around 85% you critical hits almost all the time, though a few yellow can pop up)

    For the love of god, can we stop with this *enter whatever you want here* already? We're in a meta where you get 200k Power from your party, do you really want to save that 6000 Crit so much?

    BiS will depend upon your stats.

    No. BiS, is bis. Best In Slot. That means that considering all other options, all possible combinations of items for a set of item slots, *this* item/item combination provides the best stats/damage/heals/buffs/catfood/whatever. What I'm assuming you mean, is BfY, a term known to mankind for... 20 seconds now, and stands for best for you. Yes, if you're lacking Crit/Pene, anything with these will be better than power on you. And the only reason this, and the mod13 guide (Soon™) have more than "alright, thats my build, have fun, ty for reading" is to make sure that such matters are not even a question.
    Piece by piece.
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    mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited April 2018

    Critical Chance: 85-100% (Did some testing and around 85% you critical hits almost all the time, though a few yellow can pop up)

    For the love of god, can we stop with this *enter whatever you want here* already? We're in a meta where you get 200k Power from your party, do you really want to save that 6000 Crit so much?

    BiS will depend upon your stats.

    No. BiS, is bis. Best In Slot. That means that considering all other options, all possible combinations of items for a set of item slots, *this* item/item combination provides the best stats/damage/heals/buffs/catfood/whatever. What I'm assuming you mean, is BfY, a term known to mankind for... 20 seconds now, and stands for best for you. Yes, if you're lacking Crit/Pene, anything with these will be better than power on you. And the only reason this, and the mod13 guide (Soon™) have more than "alright, thats my build, have fun, ty for reading" is to make sure that such matters are not even a question.
    If I followed your logic on BiS my RI would be to low for any T3 dungeon. Most BiS guides, which I always get a good chuckle from, go for Power and Crit. And as you pointed out, we all get to 200K power from powersharing.

    Rex Crona is considered by many BiS. I have one in my bank and will not equip it because doing so would lower my RI and critical chance. This would hurt my damage. Instead of getting 2k extra in power, which is not all that much of boost in damage considering we are all getting around 200K in a meta group. Therefore getting higher RI and Critical Chance, as you state, BfY.

    Heck, I have seen a 18K CW in T9 and he was horrible, using the so called BiS gear,enchantments, etc...the issue was his RI was to low to produce enough damage in the dungeon. I had to kick him and pick up a guidlie CW that was around 14K IL who did much better and had better stat allocation.

    BiS is relative to stat allocation of the character and it changes as you start to modify your character.

    If we look at BiS enchantment, best is Brutal yet I see many top end DPS using 1 dark or other enchantments that boost armor pen due to not having enough because they lack armor pen or other stat based on their equipped artifact or gear. According to you that player is not BiS and should use BiS and guess what, if they did they would not be optimal for end game content.

    So, as I stated, BiS items for each player will depend upon what you need for stats.

    Post edited by mebengalsfan#9264 on
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    d3cepti0n#1453 d3cepti0n Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    My "logic" clearly states that you need to cap Arp and Crit. Reading something before commenting on it would be wise, since Im assuming you haven't read the guide. In it, it's clearly stated that the only reason you avoid items with a lot crit and/or pene is because you will get the stats anyway. Using your corona would make you lose stats which then you would be able to replace with Demonic enchantments, which give more stats total that the radiants/brutals you'd use with a Crit/Pene head. Not having Crit and/or Pene capped at any point after considering yourself able to run T3s is not even a matter of question.

    And no, BiS will not depend on your stats. BiS is not subjective. Out of every possible build in existance, only one will have the most stats/damage modifiers. And that is BiS.
    Piece by piece.
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    c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    Yeah, this "BiS" ideology usually falls short on some premises.

    Speaking of Stat priority it's Weapon Damage > Resistance ignored > Power > Crit > Recovery.

    Weapon damage is the heart of any build. It is and remains the best way to build up any damage.

    I also agree that if the primary role of "BiS build" is Stat managing, then BiS becomes an obsolete term since there are many ways to achieve the given stats in various scenarios.
    The "ideal BiS" has a far broader definition than a solitary set. Perhaps truly there needs to be a better definition in Neverwinter. Like "Relative BiS" or "BiS for this dungeon" or "BiS items per group" or "BiS per Weapon enchantment in the group" or similar to that vein. I don't think anyone did that publicly or went into such detail to explain the actual BiS party composition. Figuring that out and tinkering around it would surely be a lot of fun. Back in mod 3 "BiS" would make all sense, but now I don't know... Somehow doesn't seem right when people rely on other people's abilities and powers...

    Related : For instance in Mad Wizard Lightning Enchantment can prove to be a better option for a HR than any other enchantment. Simply makes things way faster. It's not really a BiS ench for a HR, but it's more effective in that skirmish than anything else at their disposal.
    Related : For instance in Clock Tower Lightning Enchantment can prove to be a better option due to the Lightning Arc and weaker enemies. Saves time if you're going to speedrun.

    The keyword is : Adaptability

    BiS is relative to the content the player's playing as well as the people you're playing with. This gives the purpose to the adaptability in party orientation and when it comes down to that "the one true BiS" is actually "how to adapt to a situation".

    Don't hate, but for instance if the party is well buffed up and nobody else is using Frost enchantment, it becomes BiS in the given situation for CW since it will allow more damage than anything else in combination to the speed and ability of the teammates. Just saying.

    peace

    Post edited by c1k4ml3kc3 on
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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    d3cepti0n#1453 d3cepti0n Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    400 Critical Strike increases your Critical Chance by 1%. Water freezes at 0 degrees Celcius. These are as relevant as your Weapon Damage statement, which Im assuming only exists to fill the answer, trying (and failing miserably) to make it look less meaningless.

    Now, to the meaningful stuff. In the guide I make clear from the very beginning that the circumstances in which the build is meant to operate are very specific and set. A certain amount of shared power, a specific combination of classes in the party. Why? Because of all the other options of filling the 4 slots, these would be the most efficient. BiS. A certain set of content. Why? Because no one is lunatic enough to optimize a build focused on clearing etos the fastest. Feel free to keep making meaningless arguments, about builds for CT or IG, in order to prove your point. But no matter how hard you try, my point will still stand; The set of items listed above will provide more stats and damage multipliers than any other given build, targeted in the same content (aka end-game), therefore making it BiS. And that is as much a matter of perspective as 5>4.
    Piece by piece.
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    c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    In the end game content given that a player would run with the best possible buff/debuff group, or as you state hyper-buff which is better (i.e faster)?

    Fey?
    Frost?

    Also if you are going to make a PvE build, that refers to entire PvE content, not just one or two runs in the game. PvE build should be more inclusive of other dungeons and places. Maybe you should name it "High-endgame content party-friendly build" or similar.

    And on a side note, I would be that "one person" who would speedrun dungeons as fast as possible. I find tremendous enjoyment in such scenarios. Ask all the people who died because of my Steal Time on tab :p

    Don't hate me, just trying to help a bit. There is still a lot of room for the improvement of the build. Like changing that pic with Lightning damage to something more recent.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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    tremeliques#2035 tremeliques Member Posts: 63 Arc User


    u should make a cw guide someday
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    c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User


    u should make a cw guide someday
    Ies.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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    d3cepti0n#1453 d3cepti0n Member Posts: 73 Arc User

    In the end game content given that a player would run with the best possible buff/debuff group, or as you state hyper-buff which is better (i.e faster)?

    Fey?
    Frost?

    Also if you are going to make a PvE build, that refers to entire PvE content, not just one or two runs in the game. PvE build should be more inclusive of other dungeons and places. Maybe you should name it "High-endgame content party-friendly build" or similar.

    And on a side note, I would be that "one person" who would speedrun dungeons as fast as possible. I find tremendous enjoyment in such scenarios. Ask all the people who died because of my Steal Time on tab :p

    Don't hate me, just trying to help a bit. There is still a lot of room for the improvement of the build. Like changing that pic with Lightning damage to something more recent.

    I'm not even going to bother replying directly. Just going to quote.

    "Important Note: In order for this build to be put together, there have been made assumptions that certain criteria have been met. That means that this build aims on maximizing the damage output of a CW that runs with a high-end hyperbuff group. "

    "(Mod 12b)"

    It's frankly sad, seeing how desperate you are to argue, that you end up making such pointless arguments.
    Piece by piece.
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    c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    I'm sorry, I didn't pay attention that the build wasn't updated.

    But there's really no reason to be rude about it. It's an honest mistake.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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    d3cepti0n#1453 d3cepti0n Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    It seemed to me like a targeted "argument bait". If it was indeed an honest mistake, Im sorry for being rude.
    Piece by piece.
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    c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    It's ok. All cool. Good build!
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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    mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    My "logic" clearly states that you need to cap Arp and Crit. Reading something before commenting on it would be wise, since Im assuming you haven't read the guide. In it, it's clearly stated that the only reason you avoid items with a lot crit and/or pene is because you will get the stats anyway. Using your corona would make you lose stats which then you would be able to replace with Demonic enchantments, which give more stats total that the radiants/brutals you'd use with a Crit/Pene head. Not having Crit and/or Pene capped at any point after considering yourself able to run T3s is not even a matter of question.

    And no, BiS will not depend on your stats. BiS is not subjective. Out of every possible build in existance, only one will have the most stats/damage modifiers. And that is BiS.

    BiS is also being a RNG system. Your logic is flawed. I know one player that did two Omu maps and got to of the +5 Rings. I did 24 on various characters and the best I got was a +2. RNG is illogical as it does not work for all.

    Yeah, this "BiS" ideology usually falls short on some premises.

    Speaking of Stat priority it's Weapon Damage > Resistance ignored > Power > Crit > Recovery.

    Weapon damage is the heart of any build. It is and remains the best way to build up any damage.

    I also agree that if the primary role of "BiS build" is Stat managing, then BiS becomes an obsolete term since there are many ways to achieve the given stats in various scenarios.
    The "ideal BiS" has a far broader definition than a solitary set. Perhaps truly there needs to be a better definition in Neverwinter. Like "Relative BiS" or "BiS for this dungeon" or "BiS items per group" or "BiS per Weapon enchantment in the group" or similar to that vein. I don't think anyone did that publicly or went into such detail to explain the actual BiS party composition. Figuring that out and tinkering around it would surely be a lot of fun. Back in mod 3 "BiS" would make all sense, but now I don't know... Somehow doesn't seem right when people rely on other people's abilities and powers...

    Related : For instance in Mad Wizard Lightning Enchantment can prove to be a better option for a HR than any other enchantment. Simply makes things way faster. It's not really a BiS ench for a HR, but it's more effective in that skirmish than anything else at their disposal.
    Related : For instance in Clock Tower Lightning Enchantment can prove to be a better option due to the Lightning Arc and weaker enemies. Saves time if you're going to speedrun.

    The keyword is : Adaptability

    BiS is relative to the content the player's playing as well as the people you're playing with. This gives the purpose to the adaptability in party orientation and when it comes down to that "the one true BiS" is actually "how to adapt to a situation".

    Don't hate, but for instance if the party is well buffed up and nobody else is using Frost enchantment, it becomes BiS in the given situation for CW since it will allow more damage than anything else in combination to the speed and ability of the teammates. Just saying.

    peace

    I agree with your thoughts on BiS.

    The other point I want to make is most BiS builds have a lot of RNG to them. For instance, Mako favors take a while to farm. I was farming on my DC for 1 day straight, around 10 hours. I was also farming for the trophies as well. I got 1 favor. I played my CW the next day and I now have 10 favors on my CW.

    The other aspect of most BiS builds is the thought that the player will have unlimited amount of in-game currency to acquire the gear that can be bought. Since that is rarely the case, players have to sub in other gear until they do get the currency to upgrade their character.

    Most guides provide 1 or 2 pieces of alternative gear, though some people who make guides assume you will be lucky with RNG and have unlimited resources to upgrade your character.


    The assumption I keep seeing is that we all play with an OP tank or Op healer for AoC. That is not always the case and running radiants in defensive is not always the best option, especially if a CW core group does not have a OP.

    Overall I do like the guide but there are so many variables that have to be taken into consideration that BiS changes based on situation and if you are not able to adept to the situation to be BiS for your character than you are simply following a guide and not growing as a player.

    My CW is far from being BiS. A BiS CW will be around 17.5+IL. I'm sitting at 15.8 or so. What is BiS for me will change as I gear up my character. Same for many players.
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    d3cepti0n#1453 d3cepti0n Member Posts: 73 Arc User

    My "logic" clearly states that you need to cap Arp and Crit. Reading something before commenting on it would be wise, since Im assuming you haven't read the guide. In it, it's clearly stated that the only reason you avoid items with a lot crit and/or pene is because you will get the stats anyway. Using your corona would make you lose stats which then you would be able to replace with Demonic enchantments, which give more stats total that the radiants/brutals you'd use with a Crit/Pene head. Not having Crit and/or Pene capped at any point after considering yourself able to run T3s is not even a matter of question.

    And no, BiS will not depend on your stats. BiS is not subjective. Out of every possible build in existance, only one will have the most stats/damage modifiers. And that is BiS.

    BiS is also being a RNG system. Your logic is flawed. I know one player that did two Omu maps and got to of the +5 Rings. I did 24 on various characters and the best I got was a +2. RNG is illogical as it does not work for all.

    Yeah, this "BiS" ideology usually falls short on some premises.

    Speaking of Stat priority it's Weapon Damage > Resistance ignored > Power > Crit > Recovery.

    Weapon damage is the heart of any build. It is and remains the best way to build up any damage.

    I also agree that if the primary role of "BiS build" is Stat managing, then BiS becomes an obsolete term since there are many ways to achieve the given stats in various scenarios.
    The "ideal BiS" has a far broader definition than a solitary set. Perhaps truly there needs to be a better definition in Neverwinter. Like "Relative BiS" or "BiS for this dungeon" or "BiS items per group" or "BiS per Weapon enchantment in the group" or similar to that vein. I don't think anyone did that publicly or went into such detail to explain the actual BiS party composition. Figuring that out and tinkering around it would surely be a lot of fun. Back in mod 3 "BiS" would make all sense, but now I don't know... Somehow doesn't seem right when people rely on other people's abilities and powers...

    Related : For instance in Mad Wizard Lightning Enchantment can prove to be a better option for a HR than any other enchantment. Simply makes things way faster. It's not really a BiS ench for a HR, but it's more effective in that skirmish than anything else at their disposal.
    Related : For instance in Clock Tower Lightning Enchantment can prove to be a better option due to the Lightning Arc and weaker enemies. Saves time if you're going to speedrun.

    The keyword is : Adaptability

    BiS is relative to the content the player's playing as well as the people you're playing with. This gives the purpose to the adaptability in party orientation and when it comes down to that "the one true BiS" is actually "how to adapt to a situation".

    Don't hate, but for instance if the party is well buffed up and nobody else is using Frost enchantment, it becomes BiS in the given situation for CW since it will allow more damage than anything else in combination to the speed and ability of the teammates. Just saying.

    peace

    I agree with your thoughts on BiS.

    The other point I want to make is most BiS builds have a lot of RNG to them. For instance, Mako favors take a while to farm. I was farming on my DC for 1 day straight, around 10 hours. I was also farming for the trophies as well. I got 1 favor. I played my CW the next day and I now have 10 favors on my CW.

    The other aspect of most BiS builds is the thought that the player will have unlimited amount of in-game currency to acquire the gear that can be bought. Since that is rarely the case, players have to sub in other gear until they do get the currency to upgrade their character.

    Most guides provide 1 or 2 pieces of alternative gear, though some people who make guides assume you will be lucky with RNG and have unlimited resources to upgrade your character.


    The assumption I keep seeing is that we all play with an OP tank or Op healer for AoC. That is not always the case and running radiants in defensive is not always the best option, especially if a CW core group does not have a OP.

    Overall I do like the guide but there are so many variables that have to be taken into consideration that BiS changes based on situation and if you are not able to adept to the situation to be BiS for your character than you are simply following a guide and not growing as a player.

    My CW is far from being BiS. A BiS CW will be around 17.5+IL. I'm sitting at 15.8 or so. What is BiS for me will change as I gear up my character. Same for many players.

    Man, if only I was already answering half of that in the guide we're commenting. Anyway.

    First of all, as someone who did ~1k IGs for a knot (that I replaced a couple weeks after) and 30 patrols per week since week 1 for no +5s, I would be your first ally in the anti-RNG campaign. However, that's how the game is, and this is not the place to complain about it.

    Before the guide even begins, I make very clear that certain requirements have been met. I could have assumed you run with 4 TRs. The thing is, if you compare a non-OP run with BI on defense slots with an OP run with Rads, the latter will be better on average.

    My logic on BiS is not flawed, your way of farming is. Im not saying that everyone should spend the same amount of time in the game as me, but knowing the endgame community, everything I've listed is within reach. In my Mod13 guide, I haven't taken into consideration Shadowstalker +5. The difference between that and say, IG +4 gear, is repetition. Assuming one does not multi-class, you only get 1 chance per week at this +5 ring regardless of the effort you are willing to put on it. *That* is RNG.

    This was never a guide to help you gear up. This is a guide that is targeted to the absolute endgame, where a player with recources wants to reach the full potential of the class.

    As this was made clear in the first 2 paragraphs or so in the guide, I don't see why we're even discussing this atm. It's a guide, targeted at a very specific thing. Should you not be interested in that, move to the next guide in the forums. What you're doing is the internet equivalent of going to a Pizza-place and complain about them not having the pasta you like.
    Piece by piece.
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    rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,405 Arc User
    How did you change your handle from @getaneasierhandle to @d3cepti0n#1453 ?

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    shockerizershockerizer Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    Checking to see how things are progressing!
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