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Official Feedback Thread: Random Queues

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  • lowjohnlowjohn Posts: 1,010Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    To be honest Speed Runners negatively impacted more than half of my first runs in the leveling dungeons. And I can tell you for sure I am not a bot collecting treasure for profit. I wanted to experience the content for fun not be sucked through it by some Speed Runner. I didn't get to enjoy the content because of people who insisted I "Hurry Up" so they could collect their AD and take off again.

    That's a common complaint, and one that was a problem BEFORE this change, and we pointed out repeatedly that this change was going to make that problem worse, not better. And we were right: It has gotten worse.

    Just curious, why don't they get three 70+ Speed Runners together to run through the dungeons? Why queue by themselves just to be pissed at the lower level folks they get paired up with?

    Because that takes longer, often, than just queuing and expecting to team with other speedrunners. Even a comparatively long levelling dungeon, like Caverns of Karrundax, only takes 9-10 minutes to finish when you don't have to stop to fight the monsters because they're splattering themselves against your armor and dying as you run. The shorter dungeons can be done in 3-4 minutes. Taking 2 minutes to form a "speedrunning party" every time is actually a significant time addition, especially when you're dealing with content that your companion can solo and that you're only interested in for the 15,000 AD for 3 minutes work in the first place.

    I've got a meatspace friend who's levelling his first toon right now. When he wants to run a dungeon, I join him and I grab someone else and we resolve to go slow and explore so he can check stuff out, and even though we can't be harmed by anything in the dungeon no matter what we do, we go along with him, poke through the nooks and crannies, and don't attack non-bosses so that he can use his powers and get some kills. And it takes longer, but we still get paid. But we *have* to do it this way with a full party, because otherwise someone who's just spending a few minutes to get the free AD gets stuck wasting 2x or 3x or 4x as much time and gets pissed off at us.
  • adamantineangeladamantineangel Posts: 55Member Arc User
    Firstly: If the Random Queue mechanics were more intuitive to recognize and isolate those dungeons/skirmishes that a player can run from those the player cannot, whether on account of IL or unlock vs locked status of a campaign-locked skirmish, there wouldn't be such a mess.

    Secondly: My main character was able to run Master of the Hunt once after Random Queues was implemented but has been permanently locked to my main character ever since that initial run. Consequently, I am now permanently locked out of random skirmishes altogether now on account of Master of the Hunt being locked and talking to the skirmish-giving npc in Sharandar doesn't work either.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Posts: 1,010Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Firstly: If the Random Queue mechanics were more intuitive to recognize and isolate those dungeons/skirmishes that a player can run from those the player cannot, whether on account of IL or unlock vs locked status of a campaign-locked skirmish, there wouldn't be such a mess.

    The issue with that is people removing gear, dropping their IL so they only qualify for the easiest and fastest runs, then joining, then putting their gear back on, defeating the purpose.

    Maybe I should put "issue" in quotation marks because if people are doing that, it shows a larger problem with the system, and it's not necessarily the problem of the people manipulating it, but that's why it locks that way.

    Secondly: My main character was able to run Master of the Hunt once after Random Queues was implemented but has been permanently locked to my main character ever since that initial run. Consequently, I am now permanently locked out of random skirmishes altogether now on account of Master of the Hunt being locked and talking to the skirmish-giving npc in Sharandar doesn't work either.

    Interesting. Your main toon can queue random skirmish, but your others can't? And they all have at least 10K IL, and they all have done the opening to Sharandar (since you think MOTH is the lockout, I'd definitely check that)?

    That's not my experience and I haven't heard anyone else complain about that. That seems like something you should open a support ticket about so that someone can check your account and fix it - @kreatyve @zebular @nitocris83 , where's the best place for this guy to open a ticket to get this fixed? ARC support? "Request GM Help" in-game? It's not "in-game bug report" but I'm not sure what the right place is.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Posts: 9,703Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    lowjohn said:

    Firstly: If the Random Queue mechanics were more intuitive to recognize and isolate those dungeons/skirmishes that a player can run from those the player cannot, whether on account of IL or unlock vs locked status of a campaign-locked skirmish, there wouldn't be such a mess.

    The issue with that is people removing gear, dropping their IL so they only qualify for the easiest and fastest runs, then joining, then putting their gear back on, defeating the purpose.

    Maybe I should put "issue" in quotation marks because if people are doing that, it shows a larger problem with the system, and it's not necessarily the problem of the people manipulating it, but that's why it locks that way.

    Secondly: My main character was able to run Master of the Hunt once after Random Queues was implemented but has been permanently locked to my main character ever since that initial run. Consequently, I am now permanently locked out of random skirmishes altogether now on account of Master of the Hunt being locked and talking to the skirmish-giving npc in Sharandar doesn't work either.

    Interesting. Your main toon can queue random skirmish, but your others can't? And they all have at least 10K IL, and they all have done the opening to Sharandar (since you think MOTH is the lockout, I'd definitely check that)?

    That's not my experience and I haven't heard anyone else complain about that. That seems like something you should open a support ticket about so that someone can check your account and fix it - @kreatyve @zebular @nitocris83 , where's the best place for this guy to open a ticket to get this fixed? ARC support? "Request GM Help" in-game? It's not "in-game bug report" but I'm not sure what the right place is.
    You can try filing a ticket here but I'm not 100% sure if support would be able to fix it, of it is due to some kind of bug that the devs would need to patch.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
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  • zebularzebular Posts: 15,250Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    edited November 2017
    kreatyve said:

    lowjohn said:

    Firstly: If the Random Queue mechanics were more intuitive to recognize and isolate those dungeons/skirmishes that a player can run from those the player cannot, whether on account of IL or unlock vs locked status of a campaign-locked skirmish, there wouldn't be such a mess.

    The issue with that is people removing gear, dropping their IL so they only qualify for the easiest and fastest runs, then joining, then putting their gear back on, defeating the purpose.

    Maybe I should put "issue" in quotation marks because if people are doing that, it shows a larger problem with the system, and it's not necessarily the problem of the people manipulating it, but that's why it locks that way.

    Secondly: My main character was able to run Master of the Hunt once after Random Queues was implemented but has been permanently locked to my main character ever since that initial run. Consequently, I am now permanently locked out of random skirmishes altogether now on account of Master of the Hunt being locked and talking to the skirmish-giving npc in Sharandar doesn't work either.

    Interesting. Your main toon can queue random skirmish, but your others can't? And they all have at least 10K IL, and they all have done the opening to Sharandar (since you think MOTH is the lockout, I'd definitely check that)?

    That's not my experience and I haven't heard anyone else complain about that. That seems like something you should open a support ticket about so that someone can check your account and fix it - @kreatyve @zebular @nitocris83 , where's the best place for this guy to open a ticket to get this fixed? ARC support? "Request GM Help" in-game? It's not "in-game bug report" but I'm not sure what the right place is.
    You can try filing a ticket here but I'm not 100% sure if support would be able to fix it, of it is due to some kind of bug that the devs would need to patch.
    To add to what Kreatyve said: The best way to report an in game bug (that's not an exploit) is to log into the game and type /bug in chat, then fill out a report. After submitted in game, you will see the Bug Report Number appear in chat, copy it. Then go to the Bug Reports forum and make a thread detailing the bug (again, as long as it is not an exploit), and include your Bug Report Number in the forum report.

    To report exploits, do the first part mentioned above by submitting it in game via /bug command and copy the bug report number. Then contact any Neverwinter Community Moderator via Private Message (or even via Discord private messages) and detail the issue to us, including the Bug Report Number. We will then forward that to the Devs.

    Keep in mind, Bug Reports made in game do not get responses. You can tell the difference between whether you filed a Bug Report or a Support Ticket two ways. The easiest way is by the Ticket Number output to your chat. If it is one long set of numbers, then that was filed as a Bug Report. If it is two sets of six numbers (IE: 123456-789012), separated by a dash, then it was filed as a Support Ticket. The other way is to look at your ticket history and see if it is there, if it is, then it was filed as a Support Ticket.

    Support Tickets should only be made for things that need a Game Master (Perfect World Entertainment) whereas Bug Reports should be things that the Developers (Cryptic Studios) need to be made aware of. Bug Reports go to Cryptic, Support Tickets go to PWE.

    If you file a Bug Report as a Support Ticket, you'll be wasting your time and PWE's time as they will just tell you to make a bug report. If you're filing a Support Ticket as a Bug Report, then you'll be wasting your time and Cryptic's time and you won't get a response, making you think they're ignoring you when in reality, you're just reporting things to the wrong people.

    The only time you should be filing a Bug Report as a Support Ticket is when the Developers or Community Staff explicitly say to. For example, you made a post about a known bug that caused you to loose an item. A Dev or Community Staff Member replied telling you that support is aware and you should file a Support Ticket so they can authenticate the loss and reimburse you. Another example would be you posted a known bug that caused your character to get stuck somewhere and no in-game means will alleviate the issue. A Dev or Community Staff Member replied telling you contact Support so they can fix your character's location.

    Edit: I got kinda long-winded here, perhaps this should also be stated in a sticky somewhere...
    Further edit: Added all this to refreshed stickies in the live bug report forums.


    Post edited by zebular on
  • lowjohnlowjohn Posts: 1,010Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    zebular said:


    Support Tickets should only be made for things that need a Game Master (Perfect World Entertainment) whereas Bug Reports should be things that the Developers (Cryptic Studios) need to be made aware of. Bug Reports go to Cryptic, Support Tickets go to PWE.

    If you file a Bug Report as a Support Ticket, you'll be wasting your time and PWE's time as they will just tell you to make a bug report. If you're filing a Support Ticket as a Bug Report, then you'll be wasting your time and Cryptic's time and you won't get a response, making you think they're ignoring you when in reality, you're just reporting things to the wrong people.

    The only time you should be filing a Bug Report as a Support Ticket is when the Developers or Community Staff explicitly say to.

    OK, so. For this guy, who is reporting an issue that most other people are not experiencing, which means the issue is quite possibly specific to his account, and since it's only him that means it's PROBABLY not a bug the developers need to handle: He should be opening a support ticket? Because something everyone else can do, he can't, and he seems to meet all the requirements?
  • zebularzebular Posts: 15,250Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    edited November 2017
    lowjohn said:

    zebular said:


    Support Tickets should only be made for things that need a Game Master (Perfect World Entertainment) whereas Bug Reports should be things that the Developers (Cryptic Studios) need to be made aware of. Bug Reports go to Cryptic, Support Tickets go to PWE.

    If you file a Bug Report as a Support Ticket, you'll be wasting your time and PWE's time as they will just tell you to make a bug report. If you're filing a Support Ticket as a Bug Report, then you'll be wasting your time and Cryptic's time and you won't get a response, making you think they're ignoring you when in reality, you're just reporting things to the wrong people.

    The only time you should be filing a Bug Report as a Support Ticket is when the Developers or Community Staff explicitly say to.

    OK, so. For this guy, who is reporting an issue that most other people are not experiencing, which means the issue is quite possibly specific to his account, and since it's only him that means it's PROBABLY not a bug the developers need to handle: He should be opening a support ticket? Because something everyone else can do, he can't, and he seems to meet all the requirements?
    I would suggest he make a Bug Report, both in game and in the Bug Report forum, then on Monday we'll see if we can get a Developer to take a look and see if it may be something Support can fix or if it is something the devs may already be aware of. It could be user error, it could be a bug, and no disrespect to the Game Masters but the Developers would be more likely be able to determine what the issue is and how to fix it. They would also know if it is something a Game Master could fix or not.

    In either case, Support is minimal on Saturday and Sunday, just as the Devs do not work on Saturday or Sunday (unless Shar wreaks havoc). So, in the interim, the Community might have ideas or suggestions to figure out what is happening.

    All of this would be better done in it's own thread as we're now throwing the thread off topic.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 992Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    @nitocris83 @asterdahl @mimicking#6533

    Did the Developpers ever thought adding a bonus rad to each, different dungeon run the player does in random queue?,
    are they going to make changes to random queue dungeons/skirmish/trials/hero'saccord lists?

    because right now random queue is puting rad income behind a cash grab scheme to force players spend real life money to get ad in this game.

    Mod edit: Removed profanity and trolling.
    Post edited by zebular on
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    Well every complaint that was voiced about eRQ before the change has been said back to me by people that didn't participate in the discussion after the change...

    I can also add "divided the guilds and created unnecessary stress" to the list of problems thanks to the exclusionary nature of the eRQ.

    Good job Cryptic. <- Sarcasm.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • adamantineangeladamantineangel Posts: 55Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Update: My main character now has access to Master of the Hunt in random skirmishes (and the regular queue) which displays whited out in both lists, but I'm still locked out of random skirmishes because (all of a sudden) Dread Legion and Merchant Prince's Folly are appearing red in the list unlike before when they didn't even appear on the random queue list... at least for me. And yes, they are properly locked to me still because I have not gotten far enough in the game to unlock those yet.

    No worries. Its confusing, but I'll work it out. At least I can get back to working on the Sharandar boons under AD-less queues.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,379Member Arc User
    .
    armadeonx said:

    @asterdahl - remember when I told you that including FBI and MSP in the ERQ list was a mistake..?

    Seals of The Brave, dude.

    Seals... Of...The...Brave...
  • panteleeleepanteleelee Posts: 289Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    When i play with group random epic dungeon i hit all the time msp or fbi...this has to do with my item level or its a bug or just bad luck?

    Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
    May the Torm of Understanding guide us!
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,946Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017

    When i play with group random epic dungeon i hit all the time msp or fbi...this has to do with my item level or its a bug or just bad luck?

    Did you have a full party before joining the Epic RQ?
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,379Member Arc User
    edited November 2017

    When i play with group random epic dungeon i hit all the time msp or fbi...this has to do with my item level or its a bug or just bad luck?

    Are you playing a "support" role?
    DCs in particular will be most affected by this issue.
    Cos the sub 11K dungeons are being queued normally by under 11K players those queues will still be populated by sub 11k tanks and healers.

    Because the people queueing solo for FBI will mainly be DPS, that queue will fill slower than any sub 11K. This makes it the priority queue for anyone who will complete the queue via the Random Queue. So suport roles will naturally be more likely sent to complete what two weeks ago would have been a guy standing in SOMI or PE, LFG "Looking for FBI... 1/5 need 2 DPS 1 Tank 1 Heals... or inv plz."

    If you are playing DPS... sorry dude that IS bad luck.
  • panteleeleepanteleelee Posts: 289Member Arc User

    When i play with group random epic dungeon i hit all the time msp or fbi...this has to do with my item level or its a bug or just bad luck?

    Are you playing a "support" role?
    DCs in particular will be most affected by this issue.
    Cos the sub 11K dungeons are being queued normally by under 11K players those queues will still be populated by sub 11k tanks and healers.

    Because the people queueing solo for FBI will mainly be DPS, that queue will fill slower than any sub 11K. This makes it the priority queue for anyone who will complete the queue via the Random Queue. So suport roles will naturally be more likely sent to complete what two weeks ago would have been a guy standing in SOMI or PE, LFG "Looking for FBI... 1/5 need 2 DPS 1 Tank 1 Heals... or inv plz."

    If you are playing DPS... sorry dude that IS bad luck.
    Yes i play only DC.
    Thnx mate for the info, again one more time NWO fails...its ok i set queue without group :D


    Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
    May the Torm of Understanding guide us!
  • araneaxaraneax Posts: 626Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    When i play with group random epic dungeon i hit all the time msp or fbi...this has to do with my item level or its a bug or just bad luck?

    Are you playing a "support" role?
    DCs in particular will be most affected by this issue.
    Cos the sub 11K dungeons are being queued normally by under 11K players those queues will still be populated by sub 11k tanks and healers.

    Because the people queueing solo for FBI will mainly be DPS, that queue will fill slower than any sub 11K. This makes it the priority queue for anyone who will complete the queue via the Random Queue. So suport roles will naturally be more likely sent to complete what two weeks ago would have been a guy standing in SOMI or PE, LFG "Looking for FBI... 1/5 need 2 DPS 1 Tank 1 Heals... or inv plz."

    If you are playing DPS... sorry dude that IS bad luck.
    Yes i play only DC.
    Thnx mate for the info, again one more time NWO fails...its ok i set queue without group :D

    I play only a DC too.
    And had no problems with an epic q. I am above 15 k. And did not get FBI or MSP yet.
    Actually i am getting a lot of VT , Shores and Kessel ...
    Dumb luck ?
    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

  • markeen#2032 markeen Posts: 292Member Arc User
    Jeez, I skimmed through 48 pages of angry gamers over this random queue nonsense and I had hoped there was a solution that made everyone happy. Guess not. I have a few ideas, how about not adding this random queue? It feels like being forced to play with people we don’t want to play with. While we’re at it, how about leaving AD gains alone? Even better, just get rid of AD completely and make Gold useful. I’d also vote to go ahead and remove those dungeons no one plays because, well, there’s a reason no one plays them.

    Seriously, ever since River District was released I’ve played less and less each day and have spent even less real world money. You devs seem to be fixing things that aren’t broken and forcing your player base away from the game. I hated queuing PuGs because of speed runners, inexperienced players or just rude players. The way it is now (on console) allows me to game with my guild, the alliance we joined, playing the dungeon/skirmish we liked and still be able to get rough AD rewards for doing it. Guess that won’t be happening anymore. I can go on and on about how this game went from fun to why bother logging in but that’s not for this thread. There’s just no point anymore. It’s your game. I thought maps and bonding nerfs was killing the game. But nope, you had to one up those.
    Founder of Knights of Ra guild in Neverwinter PS4. Founder of The Arashikage Clan in Defiance, formally of PlayStation Home.
  • mythic#8232 mythic Posts: 2Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    I don't have the time to go through all 48 pages of this thread, so if anyone knows if an Admin has even responded to this topic (page number would be very appreciated but not necessary) that would be helpful! Not expecting them to though.

    Edit: I found the recent Dev Blog regarding the issue.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I'm doing the random skirmish queue and it keeps depositing me into PoM with no DPS and a desperate struggle to even get silver, 3 tanks, 2 low geared SWs is not great. When I'm topping DPS by a mile on my 13K tanky GF ...
  • ladypeanut66ladypeanut66 Posts: 78Member Arc User

    I'm doing the random skirmish queue and it keeps depositing me into PoM with no DPS and a desperate struggle to even get silver, 3 tanks, 2 low geared SWs is not great. When I'm topping DPS by a mile on my 13K tanky GF ...

    The RQ is probably not very random. In the baby dungeons I always get Caverns of Karrundax, Greywolf Den, Pirate's Retreat or Cloak Tower. I have seen some Cragmire Crypts too, but very few relatively speaking.

    Also, if you are 13k GF, you should be melting stuff with a DPS loadout without having to worry about you dying :/ My 9k GF can kill stuff (not really a lot, because 9k) but he does not die.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    I'm doing the random skirmish queue and it keeps depositing me into PoM with no DPS and a desperate struggle to even get silver, 3 tanks, 2 low geared SWs is not great. When I'm topping DPS by a mile on my 13K tanky GF ...

    The RQ is probably not very random. In the baby dungeons I always get Caverns of Karrundax, Greywolf Den, Pirate's Retreat or Cloak Tower. I have seen some Cragmire Crypts too, but very few relatively speaking.

    Also, if you are 13k GF, you should be melting stuff with a DPS loadout without having to worry about you dying :/ My 9k GF can kill stuff (not really a lot, because 9k) but he does not die.
    I could but I don't, because I have a separate 14K DPS GF for that :) so haven't built a loadout on the second one

  • ladypeanut66ladypeanut66 Posts: 78Member Arc User

    I'm doing the random skirmish queue and it keeps depositing me into PoM with no DPS and a desperate struggle to even get silver, 3 tanks, 2 low geared SWs is not great. When I'm topping DPS by a mile on my 13K tanky GF ...

    The RQ is probably not very random. In the baby dungeons I always get Caverns of Karrundax, Greywolf Den, Pirate's Retreat or Cloak Tower. I have seen some Cragmire Crypts too, but very few relatively speaking.

    Also, if you are 13k GF, you should be melting stuff with a DPS loadout without having to worry about you dying :/ My 9k GF can kill stuff (not really a lot, because 9k) but he does not die.
    I could but I don't, because I have a separate 14K DPS GF for that :) so haven't built a loadout on the second one

    Oh, you should really use a loadout for DPS anyway (I don't want to know the pain to do campaigns in a turtle XD). But, if you are struggling to get good results in skirmishes, maybe it is time to assemble the super team, bring some friends and random queue for it. Since you cannot pick the dudes you are getting grouped with if you are not assembling a premade... But that is a temporary solution. You shouldn't be getting so many POMs in the first place!
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    I'm doing the random skirmish queue and it keeps depositing me into PoM with no DPS and a desperate struggle to even get silver, 3 tanks, 2 low geared SWs is not great. When I'm topping DPS by a mile on my 13K tanky GF ...

    The RQ is probably not very random. In the baby dungeons I always get Caverns of Karrundax, Greywolf Den, Pirate's Retreat or Cloak Tower. I have seen some Cragmire Crypts too, but very few relatively speaking.

    Also, if you are 13k GF, you should be melting stuff with a DPS loadout without having to worry about you dying :/ My 9k GF can kill stuff (not really a lot, because 9k) but he does not die.
    I could but I don't, because I have a separate 14K DPS GF for that :) so haven't built a loadout on the second one

    Oh, you should really use a loadout for DPS anyway (I don't want to know the pain to do campaigns in a turtle XD). But, if you are struggling to get good results in skirmishes, maybe it is time to assemble the super team, bring some friends and random queue for it. Since you cannot pick the dudes you are getting grouped with if you are not assembling a premade... But that is a temporary solution. You shouldn't be getting so many POMs in the first place!
    Mine is not a complete turtle and has no issues with campaigns at all (has completed all but chult and the last SKT boon).

    My 14K DPSs get almost entirely ToDG, MotH or DL, my less good DPS and tank/support get almost exclusively PoM, and without any good DPS with them. I'm not complaining about my character, I'm complaining about the teams I get for that one, I can't remember the last time in like 15 of them that a DPS above 12K turned up with me.

  • clericalistclericalist Posts: 563Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Regarding the dungeon sprinters in the dungeons meant for the leveling up players, simply remove this dungeon from the random queue for players that have reached level 70. I am guessing that there have been more than a few players that have started playing the game that said "what the @#%^ is this" when entering a dungeon for the first time and seeing some GWF sprint ahead and they have nothing to do but walk, I would not be surprised if many then promptly quit the game for good.

    There are so many other ways one can provide players to get extra AD, but using the intro dungeons is the worst possible farming mechanism I can think of.
  • oldtimer#7525 oldtimer Posts: 46Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    * WARNING - HUGE WALL ' O ' TEXT INCOMING *

    RD - Random dungeon, RS - Random Skirmish, RED - Random Epic Dungeon

    Now that some time has passed with the utter failure that is this new random queue system i would like to give my 2 cents ( more like 22 cents ) on the state of dungeon grinding from the perspective of a seasoned player who pugs exclusively and is currently playing 2 chars eligible for Epic Random Queue but not strong enough for end game dungeons ( FBI,SP,TONG ). I will give my quick thoughts on the new AD earning system, the dungeons in general and then propose what i believe are the needed changes to fix this mess. I won't discuss skirmishes since i think those are in a good spot or trials because i could not care less about those for the purposes of AD farming.

    First of all i no longer am against the idea of the daily AD bonuses being exclusive to random queues and i like the idea of them being handed out only once a day compared to twice a day like before. However, i currently have 12 chars ( 3 of them lv 70 ) and the most efficient way for me to earn AD is to just do RD on all of them and RS as well on my 3 70s. This either ruins or helps new players that queue for leveling dungeons but since i need AD and it is by far the best way that is what i will continue to do with my limited play time.

    From a pug perspective i am not touching RED ever and even if i get the best possible outcome ( Kessell ) it still isn't worth my time or sanity to risk using the RED queue unless it's my last run of the day and i don't care if i get a leaver penalty. Targeted epic queue is also a waste of time unless i manage to get a 7 min ETOS run and even then i need 3 runs before i see a boss drop - just a 4k ring from my VIP key at the end of a T2 dungeon is a joke. I did not play ECC,EGWD and barely ever played CN in pugs back when i was guaranteed a daily bonus and i had rank 12s in every slot so i am not touching them with random queue or any queue now with much weaker chars/teammates.

    Now on to my proposed solutions in order of importance, will be discussed more in detail further down:

    1) Removal of FBI and SP from RED queue
    2) Update to RED daily bonus to be 2x the RD bonus - proposed numbers are 7500 for RD and 15000 for RED. Repeatable completion bonus to be equal to exactly 10% of daily bonus for each queue, awarded only from random queue and on first random queue completion as well ( basically the same ).
    3) Change all dungeon/skirmish chests to reward the equivalent of the repeatable bonus, all special chests to award 2x the repeatable bonus for the respective queue type every time you open the chests regardless of queue used ( random or targeted ). Reduce the cost of epic dungeon keys to 2500 AD.
    4) Fix level scaling so that level 70 chars are not as overpowered as they are currently in <70 content. DO NOT lock lv 70s out of leveling content, that is not a good fix.

    Let's delve into why i think these are the changes that need to happen and why level scaling fix is the least important in my eyes:

    1) Removal of FBI and SP from RED queue - this has been discussed in length and no one in their right mind supports these dungeons being part of the epic random queue pool. Since we no longer distinguish between dungeon tiers for the purpose of random queue and we aren't going to get a random queue for different tiers then FBI and SP need to be moved to Hero's Accord or it should stop existing. No ifs or buts, these dungeons have NO PLACE anywhere near Tiers 1 and 2.

    2) Update daily random bonus to 7500 AD for RD and 15000 for RED - epic dungeons should reward double what leveling dungeons do, period. Players have a limited amount of time and they will not choose to waste their time in an epic just to get frustrated that no bosses ever drop salvage and walk away with barely the same amount of AD ( often less ) than they would receive if they face rolled a leveling dungeon in half the time. I often do 3-4 ETOS ( the most efficient dungeon for the majority of the player base ) before i see a salvage drop and often walk away with 4.4k AD after VIP bonus from a full T2. Seals from a single run have zero value on their own so they are worthless and should not be included in rewards calculations. 2 runs worth of seals equal one chest reward that is already pitiful - yay whatever.

    3) Change all end chests to award the repeatable bonus with special chests awarding 2x the bonus regardless of queue used - with higher epic dungeon AD daily bonus that means higher repeatable bonus, chests awarding 1x or 2x the same bonus even if you don't use random queue gives plenty of incentive to not touch leveling dungeons and do epics instead so it is a huge help for both geared/undergeared lv 70s and new players. With these values a player eligible for the new RED queue with a key to spend will walk away with 15000 AD from the daily bonus + 1500 AD from RED repeatable + 1500 AD from epic dungeon chest key ( one free a day for non-VIP ) for a total of 18000 AD before salvage or VIP bonuses. Plus for dungeons with special chests that is potentially another 3000 AD for the run giving incentive to make all those stupid secondary keys.

    Epic dungeon chest keys become 2500 AD - why 2500 AD? Currently a T1 chest rewards 2000 to 2500 AD of salvage before VIP bonus for T1s and 4000 to 6000 AD of salvage before VIP bonus for T2s with dungeon keys costing 5000 AD ( not even sure if this is still the case i've never bought those ). With the new repeatable bonus of 1500 AD in every dungeon chest this means that now for every chest opened regardless of salvage reward a player is guaranteed at least 1000 AD from a T1 chest and 3000 AD from a T2 chest. This is a perfectly visible incentive to strive to achieve a better,stronger char that can run T2s for triple the dungeon rewards and creates another refined AD sink that only rewards rough AD in exchange ( good for the economy ).

    4) Fix level scaling for lv 70s - plenty of fixes to this have been proposed. In my opinion i love a lv 70 speed running a dungeon for my low level alt when i want my RD bonus but this is not good for new players. With my proposed fixes that will make epics a lot more tempting and often times more profitable than a RD run and with a fix to level scaling so that lv 70s don't just one shot everything in leveling dungeons will pretty much remove well geared players from leveling dungeons. Entry level new lv 70s will still join RD from time to time to help with progression and they should be allowed to do that, they will not be one shoting many mobs anyway. A level scaling adjustment should tone down lv 70s but SHOULD NOT put them on equal grounds with on-level chars in the dungeon. Also the party icons displaying the actual level of the player not the scaled down level to your party members will better explain the still visible power difference to new players.

    Before anyone complains that we cannot afford such huge rewards to be handed out - the economy is broken and this is not the fault of the player base,the fault is ENTIRELY with Cryptic and their management. The permanent huge ZAX backlog indicates either too much AD being earned or not enough ZEN being purchased. We all know AD generation is at an all time low especially for the new/little guy so this is clearly a problem with the game slowly dying since people do not invest money in it. We need a BALANCED economy with incentive to spend time and money in the game, instead every time we get more costs ( sometimes hard sinks ) and less earning potential which leads to an ever dwindling population and ever bigger ZAX backlog because nothing is worth anything anywhere.

    Respect our play time and reward it properly and proportionately, introduce new USEFUL AD sinks, tweak the numbers for both earnings ( ACTUAL , not AVERAGE or POTENTIAL ) and sinks so that the economy can stabilize. You don't need to give me 15000 AD for a random epic dungeon run if a perfect enchant would cost me between 700k - 1 million but you best believe that is the minimum i will expect to see if a perfect enchant costs me between 2 - 2.5 million. PROPORTIONATE changes - start doing those and stop nerfing everything of value just to milk what few players are still left. It doesn't work, it never worked and never will work.

    WALL OF TEXT OVER.

    TL;DR :

    Game is in a VERY bad spot. Dungeons are in a VERY bad spot and random queue sucks *insert profanity here*, start fixing stuff by first fixing dungeons like this:

    1) Remove FBI and SP from RED queue
    2) Update to RED daily bonus to be 2x the RD bonus - 7500 AD for RD and 15000 AD for RED proposed, repeatable bonus works the same as it does now and is 10 % of daily bonus amount. VIP bonus still applies to all rewards.
    3) Dungeon/skirmish chests now always award equivalent to queue type repeatable bonus on every type of run ( random or targeted ), special chests award 2x the bonus, VIP bonus still applies to all rewards. Epic dungeon keys cost reduced to 2500 AD.
    4) Fix level scaling so to prevent lv 70s one shoting leveling dungeons. Combine with above fixes to remove incentive for running RD for anyone not a new player.

    Now let's see if maintenance is over.
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Random queuing sounds like a great feature and I know I will use it. But I do have one suggestion for the developers to consider. It would add even more variety if there was a way to designate a character/loadout's intended role. Generally all classes are always considered by Neverwinter to play certain default roles. For example, a CW is always assumed to be a DPS. But loadouts have enabled more creativity and I happen to have a CW loadout for an MOF Support build that does a fine job as a healer. I've successfully taken cleric-less parties thru Castle Never, Spiders, etc. but I can only do this as a private queue, because the public queueing system assumes I am a DPS (and so we can end up with two healers on a five man team). I'm sure there are other creative builds out there that can also fulfill important roles that can sometimes be hard to find. There just needs to be a way to designate a loadout as a "healer," "tank," etc. If you could add a feature like this, that would be really cool.
    Post edited by typo#6563 on
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited December 2017

    I was skeptical of random queues, but after they became live I felt that I should give them a chance to see how they felt. After many weeks now, I am certain that they have degraded my own experience and others' experience, for two primary reasons:

    (1) I main a 15K GWF, and I feel like a jerk running a random dungeon and a random skirmish. About 98% of the time in a dungeon (i.e., unless the other 2 folks are also level 70s) and 30% of time in a skirmish (i.e., I get Master of the Hunt or Dread Legion) I just obliterate everything and detract value and fun from other people, and I feel bad doing it. The incentive structure is too alluring for me to pass up, though: 9K AD for extremely little effort is hard to pass up.

    (2) The # of people in my alliance forming groups and running content together has gone way, way down, since the incentive to form premade groups went way down.

    I would go so far as to say that if I didn't have a lot of VIP left (or wasn't prone to the sunk costs fallacy) it's very likely that I would play less or even stop. It's sad. The bonding nerf wasn't fun by any means, but it didn't end up being a huge QOL hit. Random queues were, however, a significant QOL drop.

    tl;dr: Because of RQs, my experience of the game is less fun, less social, and even in some instances more harmful to others now.

    This says some of it, but my experience is even worse.

    My main is a 15K DPS GF - I can't queue as DPS, have to queue as tank so can't RQ epic dungeons as I can't tank the harder content and don't want to play as a tank.

    My second char is a 15K GWF, who was getting to be about ready to do mSP when the bonding nerf hit and is now months away.

    FBI and eLoL are unplayable for me due to bugs so RQing with penalties is bad.

    I do random skirmishes on several characters and that's it, not run a single dungeon in ages.

    Add to that that my main enjoyment now is in guild progression. We used to save up our MC/VT or whatever quests then run them all as a guild over the weekend, that sociability has been lost with RQs. Also with the refinement changes, gems are becoming much harder to come by as they can be used at full rate to refine anything, and there is a huge need for refinement with the enchants being pushed to 14 and the massively increased amount of refinement points required for artifacts and art equipment due to the loss of matching bonuses.

    I have got to the stage now where I'm only playing because of my guild, and several of my best friends there are going. I thought much harder than I ever have before about spending real money this sale period, and eventually did, but my patience is wearing thin. No new classes to keep the game fresh, and changes that release after release suck the fun out of what was a great game.

    One parting shot, not everybody plays this game as a challenge, some people have enough challenges in their daily lives that they play this game as an escape, somewhere they can feel powerful. The quest for ever more difficult content (with no other way of getting some of the key rewards needed to progress like fartouched residuum or the best enchanting stones except the AH/RM) alienates those players while delighting the vocal forum minority. This was something Cryptic seemed to understand in CoH but has lost that understanding here.
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