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Official: M13 Scourge Warlock Changes

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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,114Member Arc User
    edited November 2017

    @schietindebux

    I think TC was reported to be mititaged vs level 73 enemies and like you said, not benefitting from armor penetration, at least to some extent.

    If I understand this corrrect, at 100% debuffs, putting TC on a level 73 boss you get 116% effectiveness, in theory.
    In reality that 16% debuff from TC is punished against that Boss by another 25% (I hope postmitigation) leading to a plus in effectiveness of only 12%. So you lose 8% dps on that boss doing so.

    At 200% debuffs (from you and your group), putting TC on that boss, it´s a 9,5% + effectiveness, mitigated for another 25% its only 7% and you lose 13% damage, since WC is a 20% buff and end the moment TC is up, by simlpy casting TC on that boss...lol
    No clue if it´s even worse, regarding that "arp-thing", whatever that means.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    > @schietindebux said:
    > @schietindebux
    >
    > I think TC was reported to be mititaged vs level 73 enemies and like you said, not benefitting from armor penetration, at least to some extent.
    >
    > If I understand this corrrect, at 100% debuffs, putting TC on a level 73 boss you get 116% effectiveness, in theory.
    > In reality that 16% debuff from TC is punished against that Boss by another 25% (I hope postmitigation) leading to a plus in effectiveness of only 12%. So you lose 8% dps on that boss doing so.
    >
    > At 200% debuffs (from you and your group), putting TC on that boss, it´s a 9,5% + effectiveness, mitigated for another 25% its only 7% and you lose 13% damage, since WC us a 20% buff, by simlpy casting TC on that boss...lol
    > No clue if ot´s even worse, regarding thta arp thing, whatever that means.

    Tynannical Double Mitigation lol

    It will be interesting to see how that power will work once it no longer gets double mitigated but even then, at least for fury, WC + BC may still be better xD just tab lol
  • darkan#3756 darkan Posts: 141Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    the debuff flames of empowerment also dreadtheft both contribuyed to stak up and reach 300% soft cap right ? so why not increase damage dealt for this debuffs for mitigate dimishing return ? also i think flames of empowerment its more usefull if aply with encounters instead at-wills
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,114Member Arc User
    edited November 2017

    the debuff flames of empowerment also dreadtheft both contribuyed to stak up and reach 300% soft cap right ? so why not increase damage dealt for this debuffs for mitigate dimishing return ? also i think flames of empowerment its more usefull if aply with encounters instead at-wills

    I have to stack 316% debuffs (pre DR) on top of my 100% from arp to get to 300% effectiveness(post DR)... my lock is at 42% himself (10% Sellsword includet).
    The rest of my group needs to apply 274% DR-debuffs (pre DR) on top to get me there.
    I am pretty sure I will never find a group doing so :'(

    My DC spends PoD 12,5%, ByS 10%, Condeming Gaze 15%, Devine Glow 12,5%, Plaguefire 3x3,5% = 60,5%, if I would run a dancing shield it´s 80,5%... and that´s a lot, everything must be up and running that moment.
    193,5% DR debuff still missing.
    A mof CW , an OP, a second DC (AC), all of them have to contribute about 62% "shareable debuffs".
    I think ByS and CG same as DG does not stack? So my AC-DC is only at ..10% debuffs, from his Sellsword (maybe kick that AC-DC)
    So that OP and that CW need to spend about 183,5% debuffs, that can be shared with the group...no clue how to do that.
    OP´s debuffs? Bane 30% at 3 stacks ... if you reach 3 stacks, never did with my OP (maybe kick that OP)
    and take a GF (35% debuff from enhanced mark+CP)
    GF-CW-DC-GWF-maybe a Hunter? no clue

    If I think about those numbers, I don´t even know how to get there, even using Artifacts and weaponenchants at max. effectiveness.
  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Posts: 130Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    My favorite party composition for Tong runs is:
    OP - GF (buff/dps) - DC (AC) - SW (Templock) - HR

    Our most successful runs was with that setup. Yet need to log it to see how effectiveness and damage was in it. Will do soon enough hopefully and very much looking forward to running that exact setup with the new revived Templock in mod 13. Would still love these changes before that though xD
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Posts: 747Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    A lot of these changes do hinge on them fixing the current buff/debuff meta, whether people recognize the fact or not. Even if the devs miraculously decide to buff Fury damage to GWF levels, for example, but the meta remains as is then chances are that the new mod13 meta will simply end up looking like some version of OP/GF/DC/Temptlock or MoF or Righteous+whatever. So much for SW DPS buffs.
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • nisckisnisckis Posts: 523Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Hi everyone, I'm sorry I'm not sorry if it looks like I side with the developers, because it's true. I just want to remember that the main idea of this is not a rework, which will come after the TR one, it's mostly an improvement so we that are not kicked from queues at the very moment the vote kick is enabled and also that we don't get rejected from joining a LFG party when we say we are a SW because they don't need further buffs/debuffs.

    Fortunately, or sadly as it depends on your point of view, most of our gameplay should be with friends and guild mates and they should not care that much about we the SW not being that Ultry High All Mighty DPS (pun absolutely intended with that childish HDPS meta name :D ).
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    @nisckis

    The developer has been reading our feedback and a few days ago he mentioned like 4 or 5 things that may get changed post mod 13 so it is worth it to continue to write suggestions, etc, nothing will happen before mod 13 but we can look forward to get more chamges after that as the class will still need more changes in order to be more in line with other dage dealers and supports because sw is underperforming as both.
  • nisckisnisckis Posts: 523Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    @schietindebux exactly, OP, 2xDC, GF, DPS (GWF mostly) is the meta with non guild, non friend parties, and that's the reason most Warlocks will not get any invite, and even kicked if it's a public queue, if they don't play with friends or guildies.

    @jaime4312#3760 sure feedback and suggestions are greatly appreciated, but comments about skill, feats and mechanics that are mostly a rework of the existing skills and feats will just add noise over the really good suggestions people are providing.

    Anyway, I do hope we get a mod 13 preview soon so we can start testing the current fixes, changes and improvements. That way it will be easier to further improve the suggestions, because right now, we can only theorycraft about what the fixes and changes will do on behalf of us the Warlocks.
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Posts: 363Member Arc User
    I very much believe that until they get around to adjusting our feat paths to make each path more unique and rewarding to play that we will still be on the outside looking in. But to address the dungeon issues well that is all on Cryptic. They are the ones that design them we just have to find a way to make it work. They seem upset that the players dont use the one tank, 3 dps and on healer model . They really should look into a mirror as to why that is. Design a dungeon with more traps that cause good damage not just death and you would give both the TR and the DC things to do one could remove the traps and the other could heal if one is hit. Bring more adds back into this game that are not immune to control this would give both the CW and HR the control part of this game that is missing in todays dungeons. But all of these things do come back down to design .They back us into a corner then act unhappy with the way we deal with it. They just need to design the dungeons to play toward having each of the different class in this game .Rather than a select few. And while they are at it hurry up with the class balancing in this game at this point it is rather sad that this is still such an issue.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 2,033Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    hawkeyel said:

    Design a dungeon with more traps that cause good damage not just death and you would give both the TR and the DC things to do one could remove the traps and the other could heal if one is hit.

    If they can be dodged, then once teams learn to dodge, there's no point in bringing a TR exclusively for traps.

    Doing anything similar for SW is imo a dumb idea, especially since the much more useful CW shares the arcane kit specialization.

    If the traps are forced, then that's bad design, as you literally cannot proceed without using a TR. You could use healers, but I dislike role forcing in general.
    hawkeyel said:

    Bring more adds back into this game that are not immune to control this would give both the CW and HR the control part of this game that is missing in todays dungeons. But all of these things do come back down to design.

    This is a fundamental problem with the game as a whole: if the mobs can be killed, what's the point in CCing them if you can just kill them quickly with any class?

    T9G 3rd boss, Tomb 1rst boss, and SP 1rst boss all have CCable mobs, but in the former it's best to mostly ignore the mobs, and in the latter two (and most Tier1/Tier2 dungeons), you can kill the mobs without any effort.

    You would specifically need something which is unkillable but be CCable for controllers to come back.
    I would rather see dungeon designs which can be won by any composition in the game, as long as you are smart about using the mechanics, dodging, etc.

    Specifically, I would rather see the game be about ingenuity and working with what tools you have, rather than forcing players to bring (x) role or (y) role for the sake of diversity.

    This is because if you lack (x) role, you've already lost the instance before you've even entered the instance. It's hearbreaking to see that you've fought so hard for so long in an instance, only to lose because you forgot to check off a box before you went into the instance.

  • darkan#3756 darkan Posts: 141Member Arc User
    schietindebux solved doubt but still think flames of empowerment can be improve really i think that increase damage its a bite and what is the reason the damage increase at staks 2%(3)=6% + 1% per stack =7%
    ¨ ¨ =8%

    maximun damage can dealt if spend 4 points in this class feature become 9% if only stak 3 times and a gwf with one or may be 2 strikes killer HR and CW same devasting damge with single hit if run with that class dps you will lucky if aply 2 staks and strike with some powerfull encounter approach still think more usefull if will aply with encounters also increase stright on porcentaje 2% r2; 3%(3)=9 r3; 4%(3)=12 r4; 5%(3)=15 just increase damage 6%, 15% from 9% actually stay now
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Posts: 747Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Control would be more relevant if mobs used more dangerous skills. One of the reasons why CWs were so nice to have around in the older mods, for example, was that there were mobs that used skills like Teleport, CCs like prone (which were often too disruptive or even dangerous for tanky types) and AoE damage buffs/debuffs. The old meta even helped make TRs more useful because TRs have stealth and lots of gap closers, which combined with their situational CC skills and monstrous single target damage meant that they could assassinate key targets quickly.

    GWFs were great for general mob clearing but needing to constantly run after teleport-spammy casters and lacking access to easy CCs made them unfit for dealing with these types of enemies.

    Anyway in the case of the old meta it was powercreep that ultimately killed the need for control, as by mod5 anyone (even the cleric) could just kill the mob in question.
    Post edited by tyrtallow on
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • diloul#3484 diloul Posts: 49Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    > @schietindebux said:
    > A lot of these changes do hinge on them fixing the current buff/debuff meta, whether people recognize the fact or not. Even if the devs miraculously decide to buff Fury damage to GWF levels, for example, but the meta remains as is then chances are that the new mod13 meta will simply end up looking like some version of OP/GF/DC/Temptlock or MoF or Righteous+whatever. So much for SW DPS buffs.
    >
    > That´s true the meta, running 2 tanks, 2 DC is the core problem, and won´t change a bit as long as classes run mega buff that stack with each other.
    > But that´s a thing I recognized 4 years ago. Not many seemed to care about, at least in forum, everyone was fine with:
    > "Your "Supernuke-mega-kick" deals double damage in case a teammate is sitting on your back."
    > If a class doubles or triples everyones damage, it is predictable to put 5 classes like that in one team.
    > Sadly I did not read in any post or any thread that devs are going to limit those megaton buffs, no they simply add new ones.
    > In other games I recognized buffs like 5%+, 10%+ at best.
    > In NWO it´s 40%+, powerbuffs for 165% of owners power, damage debuff for 50%, damagebuffs for 35% and so on.
    > ITF, BTS, HG, FF, TI, companionrebuffs, and much more had to go to change things.
    >
    > This class is excludet, same as other striker except GWF, since that´s the meta concerning dps, tankyness, mobility, immunity etc.
    > And beside the fact that some forumwarrior try to tell everyone that GWF is fine, it´s absolutely not if you do the direct comparison with other striker, it´s more like a joke tbh.
    > So what exactly do you propse to end this? I don´t see the will or manpower on devs side to solve this effectively. It´s more like juggeling with some powers and desperately try to balance ... but we are miles away from balance.
    > Hi everyone, I'm sorry I'm not sorry if it looks like I side with the developers, because it's true. I just want to remember that the main idea of this is not a rework, which will come after the TR one, it's mostly an improvement so we that are not kicked from queues at the very moment the vote kick is enabled and also that we don't get rejected from joining a LFG party when we say we are a SW because they don't need further buffs/debuffs.
    >
    > Fortunately, or sadly as it depends on your point of view, most of our gameplay should be with friends and guild mates and they should not care that much about we the SW not being that Ultry High All Mighty DPS (pun absolutely intended with that childish HDPS meta name :D ).
    >
    >
    > This tweaks and changes will not change anything except that Templocks will be a viable teammate to some degree in current meta.
    > OP-DC-DC-Templock/buffer GF/mofCW and last spot high dps.
    > It´s more like you got better tools to battle for that one spot of a dps/buffer
    > It´s not about debuffs. A powerbuffer like AC/DC and a dps/buffer like DO/DC, spending x1.2 and x1.4 mulitplier-buffs, with strong mitigation on top are simply better than everything else.
    > Beside the fact that a big chunk of those "fotm-DC´s" do a horrible job and and obviously hit level 70 two weeks ago. But they get into Tong with a miserable performance, poor gear and near no clue of what to do. Simply because they apply a x1.4 and a x1.2 buff.
    > I put most of my efforts into my warlock for 4 years and do not get access !
    > Warlock seems to be pretty meh, if he even can´t compete with a "Newbie DC", without gear, talent or clue what to do?
    > Same about OP. If I want I can stuff my OP with all my stones and get 14k+ IL. He is near boonless and I have no much clue about that class.
    > If I go to Chult and chat: "OP 14k+ lfg Tong" , I will get access 100%. The joke is, I can tank that dungeon with my 7 mio temp HP, and I don´t lose aggro if I run Vow. A class that can´t die, with autoaggro modus and spending everyone a passive dps boost for 15 to 20%, beside 25% of it´s power, lol.
    >
    >
    > The fact that my friendlist vanishes more and more tells me that lot´s of player simply are done with NWO.
    > If you are not in a big guild (and there are not many left), you have definitely issues to get anything runnning.
    > If I look at our guild (GH rank 20) the average number of player I witness at it´s best are 1,5 sites. About 30% of those are longterm member and 70% are more or less new, some joined the guild because their own was dying.
    > Some stick with their old friends exclusively and do not want to even join a guildrun at all nor ever were interested in the guild itself (it´s those 8k boons everyone wants).
    > The actual setup of guilds seem to be more like a commune of player with absolute divergent interests.
    >
    > And lately some player started to spam in alliance chat: "lfm CN, need buffer"
    > 4 player answered to join, an OP, me , a Hunter I guess etc.
    > Maybe after gearcheck, he answered: " No, sry need buffer, and want no alts"
    > I answered: " simply call out for OP-DC-DC-GF 14k+"
    >
    > This is what that current mod made this game and community be like and there is no way back and no way arround imo.
    > " OP-DC-DC-tralala" 24hours the day and even in alliance chat some peäbrains go on.

    You nailed it.
    I didn't put a cent from my pocket in black friday.
    i had 6000z converted from lucky loots sold on ah.

    I bought 2 x 50 keys+vip and i got the new life pack wich worth 9,5 m...

    I should have been happy but wasnt...

    I thought whats the point ?
    -the chest peek keys gate
    -The constant nerfs to sw without fixing anything, just pure nerf. They take the time to fix whats in our favor but they never fixed what does NOT work and count on us to tell them what don't work...
    - The nerf of bondings ( that you can unerf by farming again and buy wards ), so when they says it's balancing it's not... Power sharing IS an issue not bondings but it's not the topic here...
    - the change to random queues.
    - the fixs from rockotober wich are a good idea but 1st of all such a long list should NOT exist in any game and once it's fixed in preview it should go live asap not in a distance mod13 or after...
    - Then Dunjeonning, i spam for to9g/mspsc/fbi, no one invit sws and the drops are pathetics anyway.
    ( i did not see a single thing out of to9g exept salvage and a belt worth 1000 da).
    With ultimate enchants it will be even more bs drops to9g, why ? (ps4) Make no sense...
    In chult or town, you can easily realise that a lot of players have left, even as dc it takes some time to find a to9g or mspc group.
    They can fix whatever they want, we sill have only To9g to farm for UE until god knows when mod 13 go live and even then, same routine, farm, farm and farm everyday, enought...

    Even what you are doing here, in the end you are doing the job of the devs for free....


    I like this game but i hate what the devs did with it, more and more grind.
    (I think i started to hate the game with the voninblood even if i did not realised it back at the time.)


    So i removed everything of value of my 4 toons, gave everything to our guild master and this is it.
    No more Neverwinter and it feels good.

    No more neverwinter, no more mmos, no more pointless farming like it it's a second job.
    And i think i did myself a favor, i 'll be playing many games i left instead of farming a dying/dead one.

    Have fun all who wish to continue.
    Post edited by diloul#3484 on
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,114Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    diloul said:


    You nailed it.

    I didn't put a cent from my pocket in black friday.

    i had 6000z converted from lucky loots sold on ah.



    I bought 2 x 50 keys+vip and i got the new life pack wich worth 9,5 m...



    I should have been happy but wasnt...



    I thought whats the point ?

    -the chest peek keys gate

    -The constant nerfs to sw without fixing anything, just pure nerf. They take the time to fix whats in our favor but they never fixed what does NOT work and count on us to tell them what don't work...

    - The nerf of bondings ( that you can unerf by farming again and buy wards ), so when they says it's balancing it's not... Power sharing IS an issue not bondings but it's not the topic here...

    - the change to random queues.

    - the fixs from rockotober wich are a good idea but 1st of all such a long list should NOT exist in any game and once it's fixed in preview it should go live asap not in a distance mod13 or after...

    - Then Dunjeonning, i spam for to9g/mspsc/fbi, no one invit sws and the drops are pathetics anyway.

    ( i did not see a single thing out of to9g exept salvage and a belt worth 1000 da).

    With ultimate enchants it will be even more bs drops to9g, why ? (ps4) Make no sense...

    In chult or town, you can easily realise that a lot of players have left, even as dc it takes some time to find a to9g or mspc group.

    They can fix whatever they want, we sill have only To9g to farm for UE until god knows when mod 13 go live and even then, same routine, farm, farm and farm everyday, enought...



    Even what you are doing here, in the end you are doing the job of the devs for free....





    I like this game but i hate what the devs did with it, more and more grind.

    (I think i started to hate the game with the voninblood even if i did not realised it back at the time.)





    So i removed everything of value of my 4 toons, gave everything to our guild master and this is it.

    No more Neverwinter and it feels good.



    No more neverwinter, no more mmos, no more pointless farming like it it's a second job.

    And i think i did myself a favor, i 'll be playing many games i left instead of farming a dying/dead one.



    Have fun all who wish to continue


    Yep, 4 years of feedback, without fixes for some issues until today.
    You are one of many locks that either left game or left the class so far.
    I witnessed a lot of player not coming online for ages (not only warlocks), maybe because they are done with this game or this mod, waiting for next one, because there is no hope to get those UE´s in an adaequat time. Some run >>40xTong and did not get one drop so far.

    Following the chat in PE or PVE channel for hours and hours, there was one request from a warlock lfg, out of 1000 requests for DC, OP and others.
    I swapped my stones to my GF, even though I think my far better equipped warlock would do a better job instead, but the general attitude towards warlocks is soo negativ, I don´t get any response at all, none.
    You can´t step into Tong even being 16k. A 12k DC will do a better job, even if he is a bad performing newby and you have to tell him everything step by step.
    As consequence for this incredible bad performance of a big chunk of "new" DC`s, the general attitude towards that class is like being instructed in an imperative, masterful tone, what to do and where (funny sometimes but annoying in general).
    "What powers do you use ?" "DO-DC, please drop AS, take Exaltation !" "...mmhh, how" " I need AA in the right time"

    I think cryptic underestimates the actual situation by far. The fixes are way too late. Waiting another 4 month to end up in the same situation is not very promising.
    If they really think classbalance and buffs are fine, followed by another mod of mindless buffruns, joined by one striker outperforming all others by far, the consequence will be a monoculture of few classes (boring), and a mayor reason to start a big giveaway myself to be released from this torture.
  • naoqueroforumnaoqueroforum Posts: 225Member Arc User
    How about this? Make lesser curse stackable. Each stack's duration and damage ticks working independently. Put that on preview and we can start trying it out and who knows, maybe it will make scornful curse look useful.
  • arakk00arakk00 Posts: 166Member Arc User
    As a lapsed Temptation SW player, I feel like you may have read some of the feedback I gave! Particularly, the soul bonding change that makes all allies do more damage to your cursed target and gives base lifesteal and the clarity/uptime changes for things like Dark Revelry are things I've pulled out before- this won't make Temptation a main raid healer by any stretch, but I feel like with the buffs to our DPS we've already gotten and skillful use of our capstones, we'll have stunning SYNERGY with 'main healers' in endgame content, allowing more overall buffs to be brought to the table.

    So let me thank you. I'm coming back to the game thanks to this thread; some people here might be whining that their DPS isn't 'as good'; we call those people 'wallet warriors' because they never learn their class. As a Temptation SW, I've always felt like I came in 'a little short' compared to others at my Ilvl, despite having strictly inferior companions and enchants- and you have done great work here in keeping to the theme of Temptation as a 'hitpoint redistributor' instead of a 'main healer'. As a Templock, I never expect to top the charts in DPS, but considering the raw amount of healing I -did- put out, I still always felt that healing wasn't 'bursty' enough, even on huge Soul Scorch procs. With the 10% baseline you're giving us and the Warlock's Bargain changes, I feel like my SB Templock will finally be able to keep up with the healing needs of lower-tier group content on its own- and at higher gear scores, I think a lot of those complaining are missing the major point that all of these buffs compound on top of each other. We're going to have Revelry 24/7 now, a handful of other flat % damage buffs flat given to us, and boosted passive healing from Warlock's Bargain (an amazing survival tool to boot!) when we have to move around and stop hitting the enemy.

    I'm extremely happy to see that SW is on your radar, and honestly- I don't want it to get all the way 'in line' with other classes. I want it to get to the point where it's viable enough to say 'eh, it's not a DC or a CW, but it'll do', then move on to bringing other classes down to that level if need be. I've always loved the challenge of playing my Warlock well- but over time, they crept away from the power creep, and it wasn't just difficult to keep up with easier classes- it was pretty much an equation of not being welcome in their groups, ever, because my class was too weak. Thanks for watching out for us!
    A <Friendly Dragon>!
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,114Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Everyone his own opinion.
    But judging about player that try to get this class runnning at endcontent, same as PVP, but struggle 100% make you look simply short sighted imo.
    So I have to judge you as a "forum warrior" not even taking part in this game, but having great fun running elol and slaying powries once a week.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Posts: 747Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017


    You nailed it.

    I didn't put a cent from my pocket in black friday.

    i had 6000z converted from lucky loots sold on ah.



    I bought 2 x 50 keys+vip and i got the new life pack wich worth 9,5 m...



    I should have been happy but wasnt...



    I thought whats the point ?

    Have fun all who wish to continue.

    That's actually a self-defeating argument. While no dev has actually ever said it explicitly, it's pretty obvious that the Neverwinter devs are understaffed and (at the very least) occasionally overworked. It doesn't help that it seems the PW dev structure doesn't even seem to have a lot of pure NW devs, and a lot of the devs seem to work on areas like say class balance for multiple games.

    In the end the problem doesn't seem to be that the devs don't want to fix the SW, it's just that they lack the time and resources to do so - that much is obvious even from just the dev posts in this thread.
    It's important to note that recently the devs have done A LOT to fix/improve the foundation of the game (eg. standardizing debuffs and ArP, standardizing how damage buffs like crit/combat advantage worked and stacked, making deflect not work on CCs, standardizing tenacity so it's global now instead of being an item stat, etc). These are problems that have plagued the game for the last 9 or so mods. Remember how long it took them to fix DoTs not working with ArP? Compared to that time frame the current list of core fixes is impressive.
    Feel free to not spend anything if your finances are hurting, but trying to kill their cash flow at this point in the mistaken assumption that they're trying to pull an EA "we don't actually listen to people's feedback" on us (which while possible, is not likely given their latest track record) could backfire spectacularly and probably just delay improvements to the SW. It's hard to know for sure what NW's profits are and how they're being spent, but if PW is anything like EA they'll at least respect consumerism.
    Post edited by tyrtallow on
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • naoqueroforumnaoqueroforum Posts: 225Member Arc User
    A suggestion for soulbinder. While out of combat, instead of having soul sparks deplete to zero, why not make them passively gather to 30 (or deplete/regen to 24, or 18)? Then adjust the out of combat ap gain from dust to dust to give ap as sparks are gained (or consumed if you are above the rest point if it is chosen not be 30). Same for the out of combat healing.
    It would put SB more quickly into his full damage potential at the start of combat.
    If this might be seen as too much of an easy mode, maybe this could be done by the currently useless class feature snuff out, making it set the rest point of soul sparks according to its rank (then change its name if it doesn't make much sense anymore).
  • darkan#3756 darkan Posts: 141Member Arc User

    Some kind of feedback about the actual situation is needed.
    There is not much room to think positiv about this class and the never ending buffruns.
    It´s urgent and has priority. So wait, be patient, maybe another 4 years?
    Playing as a more casual player all this might be from minor interest. If I run old content once a week the class is sufficient in most aspects.
    The longterm player are the ones that judge about performance in endcontent and there is no doubt, near all of them agree about a severe disbalance and exclusion from actual mod. A lot of player are forced to run supporter classes and setups, the request for some classes is absurd, for others not existent.
    A lot of competetive player left this class since long, some left the game, and some waited for ages to step back into PVP but can´t.
    There is not much room for patience or understanding, as long as we do not get some urgent, needed fixes.
    This has to be 1. priority, nothing else.
    Warlock as a product doesn´t work any more.

    Completly agreed im current reach 15k IL (15025 exactly) and still offer my build DPS and either my guild and channels still say me "can run templock " " you go healer " my build DPS has been ignored if even carried 2 DC's IF EVEN WHATEVER ALWAYS RECHACTED RUN DPS. And i try use 2 build one monotarget and other AoE damage test fury, damnation and hibrid nothing working for competive agnist gwf/hr/cw in dps its absurd i dont understood wich its the point have 2 trees DPS if none both competitive with dps that make ignored
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,114Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    That´s what a DO DC does towards the hole group:
    Multiplier: Hollowed Ground x Terryfying Insight x Breaking the Sp = everyones dps x 2.352
    Power Buffs: Weapon of Light (at 40k basepower+r13 Bonds rebuff) = 11.200 powerbuff
    Debuffs: ByS 10%+ Condemning Gaze 15%+ PoD 12.5%+ DG 17.5% = 55% debuffs

    Your dps is increased (pre debuff DR) x 3.654 plus that 11k powerbuff
    An AC DC spends 1.4 multiplier, 42,5% debuffs , and at 40k basepower a powerbuff like 61.6k if you wear bonds r13, same as he is a guarant for the group to stand in place and don´t get onehittet (AA, Astral Shield , DG, etc), buffs the AP gain and the encounter reset significant (encounter reset -> dps GF´s).

    That´s what your warlock does towards the hole group:
    Multiplier: Pillar of Power = everone dps x1.18
    Power BUffs: at 40k basepower you spend 8k power
    Debuffs: Dread Theft 25% + PoP 10% = 35% debuffs at max

    Your dps is increased (pre debuff DR) x 1.593 plus that 8k powerbuff.

    A DO-DC deals similiar or better dps than a templock buffs the group for x 2.352 multiplier passively near all time, debuffs for factor 1.55 and spends a better powerbuff on top

    A templock deals similar to lower dps , buffs the group for 1.18 multiplier (only if the groups steps on PoP), debuffs for 1.35 and spends a lower powerbuff

    In mod 13 a Templock will buff the groups damage for x 1,416 (only at bossencounter) x 1,35 debuff (pre DR), he has to drop his Pillar wisely, same as that WC curse only works on 3 Targets, and his main debuff , Dreadtheft, will be up maybe 50% at max.
    Like that he still will provide >1/3 of the buffs a DO DC spends and might deal similar damage (dps buffed).
    You simply can strip that DC to the bone and he still will beat that templock with ease, no gear needed.
    That´s actual balance in NWO: A naked class beats a maxed class by far, due to buffs !

    Those multipliers classes stack with each other are the key for success.
    Do´s 1,4x1,2x1,4 are multiplied with GF´s 1.3 etc, templock will simply change places with another class, double DC will stay standart, due to overpowered buffs.
    Fury dps can´t hold against others`s , so all we might see in mod 13 are templocks instead of ? GF´s, Hunter, mof CW?
    My dps/buffer GF beats templock (ITF, Mark, Crushing Pin). Debuffs to the group are a bit meh, but ITF is up 24/7 and he deals far better dps than my templock at bosses. Not like that GF @bellkazi posted , but I am working on it...
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • eclipseblood#1326 eclipseblood Posts: 199Member Arc User
    Deadly curse- change this so that cursed damage is increases by 15% and curse synergy applies lesser curse ( so warlocks bargain, lesser curse, and tyrannical will do more damage with this feature so curse buildsWill be viable.

    Dark ones blessing - curse synergy effects increases our life steal chance by up to 5% and curse consume effects lets our dot effects do 12% more damage. (Right now curse consumes causes a delay for little reward)

    Flames of empowerment- should be changed to stacks on urself as a buff rather than a debuff so we're not affected by the diminishing returns on debuffs and u can manage ur stack much better in aoe fights.

    Warding curse- each target affected by warlocks curse reduces our incoming damage by 4% (doesnt apply to lesser curse or tyrannical, seemed like a pvp passive so it was probably capped on 3 targets when a team has 5 ppl)

    Prince of hell- when taking damage, increase ur damage by 12% and increase ur deflect chance by 5% (maily for PvP)

    No pity no mercy- instead of only the 1st hit, y not just increase the damage of all of the hits of hellish rebuke?

    Harrowstorm- it fails as a damaging encounter so it could have a curse synergy effect that enemies hit with the aoe take 10% increased damage from all sources. (Templocks will still fall behind even with the changes so this should help them)

    Curse bite- maybe if it crits, have it activate on cursed targets again up to 4 times with a 10% damage penalty each time a stack builds or decreasing its base damage and have the damage be increased as the stacks apply after they crit again(can play around with the values.

    Killing flames- changing this to always do its maximum damage would help alot more, maybe at half health it could spawn a soul puppet or apply a dot or something.

    Helltouched(feat)-have it be a buff as well instead of a debuff

    At the moment, we dont really have much else to increase our damage except 2 passives. This could make it so that we have several different options and have different playstyles. :)
  • runswsissorsrunswsissors Posts: 5Member Arc User
    My two mains were a pali and a sw. The pali was to tank for friends, but my sw was my most fun chara. I once watched a log of a really amazing sw soloing the old boss in cn and was amazed. So I made a second sw and was building her up and still playing my first sw who could solo a few dungeons already, but nothing really hard.
    I was concentrating on damage and life steal. I've always felt if I wanted a healer or buffer I would make a cleric. lol
    Since the borking of the sw. I was so disappointed that I stopped playing both of them. All the time and rl money I had sunk into the two was for nothing. I've been told by others that they had the same thing happen with other classes they invested in some time back.
    I don't understand why or how the devs can do this? We spend our time and money to build something and they just tear it down?
    When I saw all the big sale event going on, it just reminded me of all the money I wasted.
    Today was my last vip key. I've only logged in to get those and talk to a friend for a few mins. I've noticed there isn't the endless stream of lock box winners in chat, which makes me think they're big sale isn't doing so well. I only hope this is the case and that maybe it will be a wake up call.
    The guild I belong to used to always be full with lots of ppl on at all hours. Now it's just a handful at different times of day and from what I read in mail there's openings for new members.
    Since I already sunk a bunch of money into my account, I'll hang on to it and maybe come back another day and see how it's all going......
  • venusnurmi#9562 venusnurmi Posts: 6Member Arc User

    My two mains were a pali and a sw. The pali was to tank for friends, but my sw was my most fun chara. I once watched a log of a really amazing sw soloing the old boss in cn and was amazed. So I made a second sw and was building her up and still playing my first sw who could solo a few dungeons already, but nothing really hard.
    I was concentrating on damage and life steal. I've always felt if I wanted a healer or buffer I would make a cleric. lol
    Since the borking of the sw. I was so disappointed that I stopped playing both of them. All the time and rl money I had sunk into the two was for nothing. I've been told by others that they had the same thing happen with other classes they invested in some time back.
    I don't understand why or how the devs can do this? We spend our time and money to build something and they just tear it down?
    When I saw all the big sale event going on, it just reminded me of all the money I wasted.
    Today was my last vip key. I've only logged in to get those and talk to a friend for a few mins. I've noticed there isn't the endless stream of lock box winners in chat, which makes me think they're big sale isn't doing so well. I only hope this is the case and that maybe it will be a wake up call.
    The guild I belong to used to always be full with lots of ppl on at all hours. Now it's just a handful at different times of day and from what I read in mail there's openings for new members.
    Since I already sunk a bunch of money into my account, I'll hang on to it and maybe come back another day and see how it's all going......

    I also spent... sorry, it seems I need to use the word "wasted"... a lot of real money into this game, just to find out that now I can't solo things, I can't choose which dungeon to run and get AD, etc, etc. Great move devs!! ... NOT... this feels like buying a car that once you get it, it magically turns into a tricycle and you are left with something that, first, you didn't pay for, and second, it's basically useless. Morally wrong, I say.

    I want my money back, pfft... Time to move on.
  • dramatik4real#2334 dramatik4real Posts: 10Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    (PS4 Mod 12) I'm a maxed out 16k6 SW (just need Primal gear) who can't even compete in dps with GF's OP's or any DPS class 2k il less than me (slightly exaggerating). I've mained an SW since day 1 in mod 9 and have played for over a year with what seems like billions of AD in my toon. After giving up on being a DPS SW, I've decided to put on a skirt and try out a no-damage Temptation but healing on my SW is just not for me. I'm gonna give my opinion of how I would fix the SW DPS class.

    Step 1: Stop trying to make the SW a healer/buffer. Healing should be an option not a requirement for us SW's
    Step 2: Increase the DoT tick rate x2 or x3 (make it tick much faster) <-- 6 slow DoT ticks do nothing to mobs already dead (killed by GWF lol)
    Step 3: More up front initial burst damage and less damage for DoT <-- Currently the big damage is on the back-end and ^^
    Step 4: Make powers cast instantly like Fiery Bolt and BoH <-- Dead mobs don't wait for ridiculous 3 second casting delays like Harrowstorm
    Step 5: Fix broken feats and scale with increased power <-- * I believe/hope this is being addressed in mod 13 *
    Step 6: Make encounters and daily powers stack on each other <-- On dummies I notice some powers cancel previous powers (ex. BoH cancels TC)
    Step 7: Less party buffs and more self buffs <-- It's MY Pillar of Power darnit! Make the freakin GWF buff me for once ;)

    Just the thoughts of an SW hungering for decent to respectable damage output. My goal is to be able to do T9G and not get completely embarrassed by my contributions. I get invited to T9G (cuz I'm 16k6 il) to do damage and never once have I been asked to switch to healing. I have not been kicked at Orcus yet but I have volunteered to step out when I see I'm 3rd in dps over the two DC's lol (for real i cry). I figure leaving the group is the best support role for an SW at this point.

    I've respect'd my toon many times trying this build and that build, this rotation and that rotation but the result is the same. I finally realize that I've tried it all and it might be time to just take a step back from this game. If any BIG BAD UGLY (maybe not ugly) SW can help me off the 'Lack of Damage' cliff I would love some advice/help. Until then I'll be in Chult trying to earn my first piece of Primal gear at the rate of 10-20 seals a day.

    Edit: Cryptic, please make my companions and artifacts on my SW account bound so I can switch to HR or GWF. I spent 3 hours in chult this morning trying to get in to T9G and was literally kicked twice and I was the highest il in the groups. I've been a dedicated player for a long time and after reading all the posts here I finally see the light. It's not me its the game. I had no idea the SW was completely broken like this. I'm a Software Engineer myself and I know how long things take to fix, QA and get out to prod. The fixes we really need are at best years away and I don't have that long to suffer playing a game that should be fun. I won't sell off my nearly 100m AD + enchants but I am seriously considering a way out.

    Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences with your SW and helping me see that I am not what is broken.
    Post edited by dramatik4real#2334 on
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