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  • sorcha#9865 sorcha Posts: 32Member Arc User

    Before 12b come out I had 2 characters at level 70 making AD and I was making the max AD for these toons...that is 36k a day

    On my main I was making so much AD that at reset the next day I could refine my AD at the full 36k...that was almost every day...

    Before 12b I was earning 72k of AD per day.....not counting my low level alts which I did not use for making AD....

    for the first week after 12b I made I think 22k a day....on my main...

    My other level 70 toon was making about 12k a day....

    I made 2 other toons before 12b they are now level 70....and because Folly has being removed from R skirmish I now have 4 toons that can earn 22k of AD a day....

    I would rather go back to the days when I could earn 36k a day on 2 toons....

    This has hurt my refining my enchantments...

    say I wanted to refine my weapon enchantment.....I need a coal ward, they are guessing 550k each and I also need some new pets that cost about the same.....we are talking 2 million AD that I need to grind more if I want to upgrade a pet to he highest rank, just add another million AD to the list while I'm at it....

    at 22k a day how long would it take to get 1 million AD on one toon....

    22*7 = 154k AD x 6 weeks 924 AD

    6 weeks and its not a million AD...but 7 weeks will get it for you....

    Normally I spend Ad faster than I get it so to get 1 million AD with how things stand right now is just not going to happen...

    does this give you an idea just how much this is hurting players....
    ...

    My main is now 11k item level but I still can't do epic dungeon's as I have not unlocked the last dungeon.....

    3 of my level 70 toons are able to get into epic dungeon's but not random epic ques....so they can not make AD here....

    The Dev's have said that there was not trying to hurt people's ability to make AD....but that is what they have done.....


  • runswsissorsrunswsissors Posts: 5Member Arc User
    Many feel the devs did all this to force players to spend more real life money to make improvements on their toons. I am just saying how many feel, not trying to turn the community or anything.
    But from what I have seen and the way I feel, this is the result. I was going to spend 10 to 20 usd to make my owlbear cub legendary. I work and don't have time to run a bunch of toons for ad, so I would do the ad runs when I could and spend money when I could to make the goals I wanted. But between the whole random que mess and the fact that they changed the owlbear and my toon, I can't bring myself to spend the money because there's no telling what changes will be made farther down the road that will make my time and money a wasted effort. Not to mention I don't enjoy playing my toon the way she is now.
    I just wanted to be able to solo as much as I could. For me that is more fun and challenging. I didn't even want to spam dungeons with an army of toons for ad.
    Also, when my friends heard about the upcoming changes we all closed our wallets in anticipation of the things to come. So in the long run maybe the devs made some money off all this, but they lost money too.
    These games are goal oriented. Get the gear, make your toon more powerful, tougher....but when you change everything midstream, it's anticlimactic. You took all our work and just flushed it.
    Many of us are hoping the devs make it right. We're just hanging back with closed purses, watching, while playing other games. It was a great game for many of us, and we're hoping it will be great again.
  • diloul#3484 diloul Posts: 49Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    > @sorcha#9865 said:
    > Before 12b come out I had 2 characters at level 70 making AD and I was making the max AD for these toons...that is 36k a day
    >
    > On my main I was making so much AD that at reset the next day I could refine my AD at the full 36k...that was almost every day...
    >
    > Before 12b I was earning 72k of AD per day.....not counting my low level alts which I did not use for making AD....
    >
    > for the first week after 12b I made I think 22k a day....on my main...
    >
    > My other level 70 toon was making about 12k a day....
    >
    > I made 2 other toons before 12b they are now level 70....and because Folly has being removed from R skirmish I now have 4 toons that can earn 22k of AD a day....
    >
    > I would rather go back to the days when I could earn 36k a day on 2 toons....
    >
    > This has hurt my refining my enchantments...
    >
    > say I wanted to refine my weapon enchantment.....I need a coal ward, they are guessing 550k each and I also need some new pets that cost about the same.....we are talking 2 million AD that I need to grind more if I want to upgrade a pet to he highest rank, just add another million AD to the list while I'm at it....
    >
    > at 22k a day how long would it take to get 1 million AD on one toon....
    >
    > 22*7 = 154k AD x 6 weeks 924 AD
    >
    > 6 weeks and its not a million AD...but 7 weeks will get it for you....
    >
    > Normally I spend Ad faster than I get it so to get 1 million AD with how things stand right now is just not going to happen...
    >
    > does this give you an idea just how much this is hurting players....
    > ...
    >
    > My main is now 11k item level but I still can't do epic dungeon's as I have not unlocked the last dungeon.....
    >
    > 3 of my level 70 toons are able to get into epic dungeon's but not random epic ques....so they can not make AD here....
    >
    > The Dev's have said that there was not trying to hurt people's ability to make AD....but that is what they have done.....

    Indeed, the only purpose is to make us generate less ad.

    I'm not trying flaming devs, i understand that they need income and i really want them to be paid for their jobs...

    But sometimes it seems they put so much sweat and efforts to just ruin our habits and nerf the way we play.
    Devs should enjoy create content and show some imagination when making new content.
    Nowadays it seems for a dev the job consist in puting sticks in our wheels to slow us because there is no content to enjoy.

    Three major useless fun killing and ways to make us spend always more time/money in a few months :

    1) Key change : make us spend ad/zen with no rewards in chest.
    It worked nicely first week then ninja drop nerf.

    2) Instead of content we get nerfed bondings "due to overpower" and then you get your power back by upgrade to 14, that just kill the argument.
    Bonding 12 "overpowered", nerf, then 14 will get you back to "overpowered"

    3) And now there is that new random dunjeon that could have been good idea if done right.
    We hate it the way it is, you don't consult your players before doing huge change like these because you know there is zero benefit for us.
    Create some kind of reward for runing old dunjeons is so different than what you have just done.

    I can also mention the rocktober that was cool but by the time a mod 13 will be released, so many players will have left the boat.

    I admit i said a few time, enought i quit but to be honest this time it's the last nail in the coffin for me.

    I was about to stop last month but we got a free vip month.
    I'm waiting for an event discount like black friday to spend the little zen i have in boxs and then i think it's time to see if the sun shine brighter elsewhere.

    The past few days on ps4, there is almost no one asking for to9g, we already ran it ad nausea and we are susposed to run it again thousands of time for UE that have meteor dinosaur killing drop rate.

    It's sad really because you guys managed to create what i consider the best gameplay for a mmo, some nice lore even if not enought but the grinding mecanic, the constant nerfs, the lack of content, the so huge gap between rich players/ lucky playersand the others ( people speak about 14s, exept bonding i only have 9s/few 10s like so many others ), the time it take you fix things destroy everything else you made.

    I would gladly pay 10e per month to play this game as monthly subscription instead of absolutely fake free to play ( after lvl 70) if there was faster fixes and actual content instead of attempts to slow us down and make us grind always more.
    You should really consider this option of monthly subscription because it's pretty easy to save for 1000z for a month vip and even less with discount without using real money and you get zero income feom people who do that.
    A monthly subscription would garanty incomes IF there is content.

    I hope you guys will not let your game die by keeping this really bad direction.

    Anyway, this is for sure my last days/weeks as an SW/DC.

    This is my last comment on this board.

    Good luck to devs and players !
    Post edited by diloul#3484 on
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,329Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    asterdahl said:


    The other approach of moving Fangbreaker and Spellplague into Hero's Accord is more realistic, however, as it stands right now, Hero's Accord represents whichever queues are currently at the maximum item level. Right now this means just Tomb of the Nine Gods. However, as I hinted at in a maintenance stream, there will be another queue that falls into that category in the not too distant future. However, later on, when something comes out at an even higher item level, those queues will be pushed down into epic dungeon or epic trial, wherever they belong, and the new highest item level queue will take up residence in hero's accord.

    If we included queues like Fangbreaker and Spellplague which are not the highest item level, it starts to become significantly more nebulous about when something is moved out of that category and down into epic dungeons. It also means that queue cannot award bonus seals of the brave, though this is a comparably trivial issue. Mostly we'd like there to not be a whole lot of confusion and consternation about when things move from one category to another.

    Sorry that's a Strawman.
    There would be no nebulous confusion if FBI and MSP went into a higher tier of T3+ dungeons. Ther would be a lot of happy people.
    The whole lot of confusion already exists... surrounding why this is such a hard task.

    Keep Heroes accord for the top two IL gates instead of the topmost content. Then as a new one opens, drop the bottom into another T3+ random queue, so that not only do people know exactly what Epic Random Queue IS and will CONTINUE to be, but you will also avoid having a big gaping hole in Heroes Accord when new highest IL content drops.

    If you drop everything into Epic when a new tier opens Epic becomes the same mess it is now, AGAIN, and Heroes Accrod effectively shuts down. As no one will have unlocked the new content at launch, and will take the usual amount of weeks for that dungeon to open up. Locking end game players out of Heroes Accord.

    The only reason Heroes Accord contains ONE IL gate is.... not obvious, but seems to be, "Cos... we made a decision, and it is now impossible to change our minds... because... Ooh! Look over there!" and it doesn't make sense that what seems to most people like such a trivial issue is creating the log jam in sorting this horrible situation out.

    The drop of 1000IL worth of players from Heroes Accord/T3+ epic queues into Random Epic Queue is a softer drop than 1000IL worth of players from Epic Random Queue into leveling dungeons.
    That is the difference. When the first Heroes Accord content drops into Epic Random queues you will see 11-12K Characters being relegated into leveling dungeons vs having a T3+ below Heroes Accord to act as asafety net... with12-13 having access T3+ random Queue, but without access to new Heroes Accord.

    Please explain why Heroes Accord MUST have only one IL gate...
  • epwnah#2639 epwnah Posts: 4Member Arc User
    So as 10.6k IL player my experience with the Random Que is less than Stellar. I log in each day and run Normal Dungeon Que, then the random Skirmish. The random Skirmish is accually not so bad, each of them are pretty short and fun. As stated before the Random dungeon is just a sprint to the end for the AD, and each day I am just hoping for a short dungeon to get it over with. It is not fun, but I do feel forced to do it for the AD.

    I have read through this whole thread, and I think the best idea so far is spliting the Random Epic into T1,T2,T3. You can only complete one que each day for bonus RAD, and you get more RAD for higher teirs (Ex. 7k T1, 10k T2, 15k T3). This in my opinion would have more instances firing than now. As it stands now a lot of people that could be firing the epic dungeons are just having to run leveling dungeons. These also need to allow private ques as well...

    Further More there could be an extra reward (not RAD) for completing 2 ques a day. So say you Run T1 and get your 7k bonus RAD, you can then chose to run another T1 and at the end you get to open the bonus chest for free. In a dungeon like TOS with no bonus chest, you could just get to open the normal chest for free. This would make more randoms fire but would not make people feel like they are FORCED to do it.

    This is also more future proof than the current system. As it stands now, in Mod 13 chult will be put in Epic Que and will require 13k IL to run 7.5k IL Dungeons. But with the T1,T2,T3 system the new dungeon will be put in the Tier 3 que, which will force High level players to run T2 until they unlock the new Dungeon. Or an even better Idea would be to not put that dungeon in any Que for 1 month and give people the chance to unlock it.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Posts: 385Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    snotty said:

    I think it should be also noted that instead of wasting time and resources making a new queue system you could have just revamped and added back in the 5 remaining dungeons that were removed from the game.

    That would have given us some more dungeons to run and at the very least be an interesting change. Also if you added back in the epic versions of the leveling dungeons plus the 5 I mentioned earlier, That would add a total of 12 new-ish dungeons to run daily.

    But hey, I guess forcing players to do something they don't want to do sounded like a better idea and was probably easier.

    I agree. @asterdahl what is the resistance to doing this? Just give us, say, Epic Pirate's King, exactly the same as the leveling dungeon, but with Level 73 mobs instead of the low-level mobs. You have already introduced gates and barriers into these dungeons to prevent speed-running and dragging all the mobs to the boss chamber, which is appropriate. Why not do this?

    Edit: Okay I just saw @asterdahl's response to this query, but I'm still not impressed. So what if Epic Pirate King would be the same level of difficulty as Epic Temple of Spider? It's kinda fun. Plus I think that if you just substituted the mobs, Lowbie <--> Level 73, some of them would be more difficult than Epic Temple of Spider. I am thinking of Karrundax specifically. That was very hard when it first came out. Now, with the huge control resistance of the mobs, it would I think still be a challenge today. IMO it would be somewhere between CN and Fangbreaker in terms of difficulty. Which when you think about it is exactly what we NEED in order to prepare players for the big difficulty spike when going from T2/T2.5 dungeons all the way to FBI/MSP/TONG. We need some intermediately hard dungeons to toughen players up.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Posts: 385Member Arc User
    lowjohn said:

    asterdahl said:


    If we simply scale up the difficulty and bring them back to the game as-is, we could really only bring them back at a lower item level, around where Temple of the Spider is now. If we brought them back in that item level range, there wouldn't be much of a reason to run them, unless one of them happened to be faster than Temple of the Spider.

    Beyond "variety" and "fun" and "different challenges", you mean? I would love to get L70-suitable versions of Karrundax and Old Spellplague and Pirate King and Mad Dragon and Throne Of Idris. Bring 'em in! Add 'em to the random dungeon queue! Let us run them, even if they *are* easier than CN and only give rewards like Temple Of The Spider and take longer!
    asterdahl said:

    We could of course bring them back with significantly more work as new top tier dungeons, similar to Spellplague Caverns (Master) but for the design, character and effects team, something like that is nearly as much work as building a new dungeon from scratch. When we're telling stories in a new area, generally we'd like to bring in dungeons that support that new story, so that's why you've seen us mostly leaning towards creating new dungeons.

    Of course, there's also bringing back old dungeons as leveling dungeons, which is something we've done with a few dungeons recently. We'd like to continue to do that, however, it also takes some time to make sure the dungeon is in working order and scaled down to three players. Generally bringing them back as leveling dungeons won't have a huge impact on the average player's day-to-day, for instance, when we brought back a number of missing leveling dungeons, we didn't necessarily see that there was tremendous interest in running them. Which is to be expected with a leveling dungeon. But we would like to bring more back, so we appreciate your patience.

    Well, yeah, there wasn't a lot of interest in running the levelling dungeons again because the rewards were worthless to L70 characters and the dungeons were super-easy. So you got people doing a nostalgia run, or heading back in to get an old achievement they'd missed, and then walking away because as sub-70 dungeons they had zero replay value.

    But bring them back *as 70s* and I think you'll get a different story. Just take Pirate King as-is, make all the enemies level 72 or 73, and up the rewards to be the same as EGWD or ETOS or ECC, and make it available, and watch. It'll get a LOT of play early on and then become a regular feature of replays.

    I don't want a new story with a reworked Throne Of Idris, I want to run Throne Of Idris again. A reworked story and a T3 version would ALSO be really cool, but just bringing it back as a level 70 dungeon that I can run for fun and get my L70 loot on in would be great.

    Please. Try it on Preview. Pick a week and let people run "Pirate King, But All The Enemies Are Level 73 And You Can Have A Party Of 5". See about the feedback from that. Too easy? Make 'em level 74! Too hard? Level 72! Loot too good? Adjust it down a little. Loot too bad? Add an extra chest or something, skirmish-style!

    But I really think most of the old content could be brought back NEARLY UNCHANGED and it would make a lot of people happy. And you've already *got* some of the levelling dungeons in place with new art assets - how could it possibly hurt to throw "just like that, but level 72" up on Preview to see how it works out?

    I completely agree. If you want more variety, you have a big library of variety right there at your disposal.
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 650Member Arc User
    First of all a quick "thank you" to the developers for listening and instigating the changes listed... hopefully based on player feedback, there will be other changes forthcoming.
    DD~
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,309Member Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    I always worry when I am told the "average" is X. If we see 10 players. one player gets 1991 and the other nine get 1 each then the average is 200 each.

    As you rightly point out, using the mean of a given set of data, which some people use interchangeably with the word average you can fall into all sorts of pitfalls. However, average and mean are not interchangeable, median for instance is also a measure of average which will more accurately exclude outlying data.

    Rest assured, when I say that averages are up notably, that it's not a small fraction of players who's earnings have increased by an order of magnitude pulling the averages up.
    And then you have players like me. I have not set one toe in any dungeon since the new release. I am not qualified for epics, & most of my alts are level 70, so no leveling dungeons for me thanks. I am earning my AD thru the campaign dailies, but once those are done, I have to wait for the weekly re-set. Please, fix this.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,843Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017

    asterdahl said:

    I always worry when I am told the "average" is X. If we see 10 players. one player gets 1991 and the other nine get 1 each then the average is 200 each.

    As you rightly point out, using the mean of a given set of data, which some people use interchangeably with the word average you can fall into all sorts of pitfalls. However, average and mean are not interchangeable, median for instance is also a measure of average which will more accurately exclude outlying data.

    Rest assured, when I say that averages are up notably, that it's not a small fraction of players who's earnings have increased by an order of magnitude pulling the averages up.
    And then you have players like me. I have not set one toe in any dungeon since the new release. I am not qualified for epics, & most of my alts are level 70, so no leveling dungeons for me thanks. I am earning my AD thru the campaign dailies, but once those are done, I have to wait for the weekly re-set. Please, fix this.

    Your level 70 alt can now do RQ skirmish to earn AD if they could not before Thursday.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 954Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    forhaken said:

    can you show me Tiamat in this list? (pic from test server)


    probably they are trying to make tiers for trials, tiamant trial-t1, ndemo/edemo- t2, svardbord/msvardborg - t3????
  • reg1981reg1981 Posts: 843Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    I agree that my AD income is up but there is only 1 reason for that. When this went live I focued on my 3 support toons. DC, GF & OP. When I run those toons I can solo most dungeons UP TO FBI/MSP.

    Now tonight, I put a DPS toon to the test and it was an epic fail. First off, it took almost 5 minutes to pop the queue. Second, going into the last boss in ECC I had 150 Mil damage. Closest to me was about 25Mil. I can't solo the boss on my warlock with the loss of stats I took with this mod.

    My play experience for the night is a bust. Instead of playing, I'm here in the forums jumping on the band wagon grabbing my pitchfork! Ok, maybe not the pitchfork yet but I felt it necessary to add my name to the petition to have something changed.

    UPDATE:

    Went to my DC after getting fustrated with the SW, random queue popped right away just to be pissed away by an hour in FBI ending in a vote quit at Hatti.

    Random queues are not going to work if people can't finish the runs. Please adjust the queue's or the IL requirements on FBI/MSP. I've wasted a whole evening here and am yet to complete an epic run. Got some AD from skrimishes and 3 mans.

    The runs I enjoy, I can't get a group that can finish them. At least not randomly.

    UPDATE #2:

    Tried again with my DC, got kessels. Have a look at this chart. Keep in mind I'm the DC. How do you expect this to run FBI?


    Post edited by reg1981 on
  • karvarekarvare Posts: 125Member Arc User
    So, how will scaling up work with say level 10? How well is that level 10 gonna do in SP? With no reqs, a naked level 10 with no gear can get into the random leveling dungeon queue, right?
  • preechr#2215 preechr Posts: 488Member Arc User
    Only for what they have unlocked
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,329Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    I don't think there are enough dungeons at the moment to warrant a T1, T2, T3 split for random queues.
    The IL req for T1 is 7.5K and T2 is 8.4K, which at 900 points is not a huge leap. certainly not compared to the 3500 IL points between T1 and FBI...
    If they were to reintroduce the old dungeons to create an even spread, some at T1 and some at T2 then it would probably make more sense to look at a T1, T2, T3 split.

    But with the current number of available dungeons I think the first priority is to simply get FBI and MSP OUT of the epic dugneon queue and make that list more accessible and achievable and give FBI/MSP players a better chance at getting group fit for purpose when running those dungeons.

    The concesion they made that any 11K alt on a player who has unlocked FBI and MSP on any other character gets full access to ERQ should have been obvious to anyone that it would severely dilute the pool of capable characters.
    Players desperately wanted their alts to not have to run leveling dungeons and BOOM... that issue was addressed. Badly. Really badly... it was conceded as quickly and as ill thought through as the intial change to dungeoneers shards. Which they've had to change again.
    They still refuse to even aknowledge that the real problem is FBI and MSP being in ERQ, and use flim flam excuses such as how it would be to confusing, or Seals of The Brave, or Heroes Accord can only have one tier of IL Gate... to deflect criticism.

    While undergeared characters continue to run ERQ, FBI and MSP will be a quagmire of failure.
    Of course if they were moved up a tier, all players above 8.4 could play everything up to CN and only those 11K + mains and well geared alts (who can then CHOOSE to go high end dungeon) would be playing FBI and MSP. More success, but probably fewer runs in total, but that; not what they want. The number of failed runs is irrelevant next to how many times those two queues pop.

    I've been saying it since it was first announced...
    The previous underperformance of FBI and MSP are the reason for this stupid system.

    Someone, somewhere, for some reason, needs those dungeons to show a higher return of traffic. And that is why we have this mess.
    It is now possible to show a stat sheet to someone saying "Look! FBI is more popular now!" because it fires more than it did before Random Queues. (Without the underlying data of failure rates and player feedback.)

    So, on paper, its a success.
  • elvalianonelvalianon Posts: 331Member Arc User
    edited November 2017

    Comments
    "we would not like to simply add more and more random queue categories"
    "The Merchant Prince's Folly: This skirmish has been removed from the "Random: Skirmish" queue.
    This queue will most likely be added back into the "Random: Skirmish" random queue during a later module, when activity in the skirmish has died down and more players meet the item level requirement"

    Suggestion
    Don't add more random queues just make each queue a pool with individual unlocks, for example player gets "go to sharandar quest" - hunt skirmish is added to their random skirmish pool, player gets lvl 70 & 10k gear score Merchant prince is added to their random skirmish pool etc. Same for dungeons, trials. HA's. The more content a player has unlocked the more random's are available them.

    Sadly, this will most likely be abused by bots and alt chartacters, which will unlock only the easiest of content to make quick AD whilst leaving out the rest to avoid them.
    pterias said:



    Talking about sorting out the key system, the obvious solution would be to unify all the keys made in different campaigns to make the same key. Basically a home-made Legendary Dragon Key. This would also help justify the continued 20 hours it takes to craft a campaign key.

    Great idea!
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Posts: 135Member Arc User
    Rather than force random queues on people for daily AD, how about keep it supplemental but give special roles or 14K+ folks rewards like Coalescent wards and Ultimate stones and then you will get folks to run them and carry all the newbs and fill all the queues that didn't pop before. Do I want to run random queues for an extra 10-50K AD? Hell No. I'd get more in salvage for my time running quick content with a good group. Would I run it for good rewards like Coas or Ultimates? Hell yes.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 954Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    is it just me or th random epic dungeons chest with epic keys arent giving the drops we get on privsate queue for etos, for example?
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 954Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    @pterias the campaign keys are specific to a certain dungeon/skirmish/trial, if they mad it a universal key for second chest, player can farm more than 1 universal key, 3 from tod campaign(1for tiam/1for tuern/1for elol), 1 from dr(1 vt key), 1 from iwd(1kessel key), 2 from underdark(1 for ndemo/pom/throne and 1 for edemo/cn), and 2 from chult(1 for tomb 1 for folly), basicly player on a daily basis could farm 9 universal keys a day that would kill the dragon keys sales on the zen store
  • maxzius#3795 maxzius Posts: 66Member Arc User
    > @mordekai#1901 said:
    > I don't think there are enough dungeons at the moment to warrant a T1, T2, T3 split for random queues.
    > The IL req for T1 is 7.5K and T2 is 8.4K, which at 900 points is not a huge leap.

    Except you are looking at it wrong. The IL requirements means nothing. It's an arbitrary number and doesn't even come close to visualizing the difficulty difference between Malabog/Valindra and EToS/ECC.

    There needs to be three tiers both to keep 70+ out of leveling dungeons and fresh 70s out of Tier 2 and 3 dungeons because they can't handle them.
  • sangrinesangrine Posts: 575Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    This morning, I successfully completed my first random queue FBI with 4 other random players and we were well above minimum item level, and all of us seemed to have prior experience in FBI.

    Since module 12b launched, all my other random queue FBI and MSP runs with 4 random players were failures with most players barely above minimum item level and equipping the cheapest armor/weapon enchantments from the AH.

    Please add a party total item level requirement (item level of all players combined) to the more difficult dungeons/skirmishes/raids. Yes, it will make those dungeons/skirmishes/raid a little less likely to be selected, but it will greatly reduce player frustration. I dont mind playing MSP if we have a fair chance of success, but when I see players with cheap gear, chosen purely because it gives the most item level per AD cost, it makes me feel angry that these players are expecting me to carry their outrageously inadequate characters.
  • chidionchidion Posts: 373Member Arc User
    sangrine said:

    This morning, I successfully completed my first random queue FBI with 4 other random players and we were well above minimum item level, and all of us seemed to have prior experience in FBI.

    Since module 12b launched, all my other random queue FBI and MSP runs with 4 random players were failures with most players barely above minimum item level and equipping the cheapest armor/weapon enchantments from the AH.

    Please add a party total item level requirement (item level of all players combined) to the more difficult dungeons/skirmishes/raids. Yes, it will make those dungeons/skirmishes/raid a little less likely to be selected, but it will greatly reduce player frustration. I dont mind playing MSP if we have a fair chance of success, but when I see players with cheap gear, chosen purely because it gives the most item level per AD cost, it makes me feel angry that these players are expecting me to carry their outrageously inadequate characters.

    A very good example of players with characters having higher level gear and experience being unhappy with having to run with lower level characters and valid points for the most part I will admit, at least it doesn't appear to be exclusively about accumulating as many astral diamonds as quickly and easily as possible the way they used to do.

    But what about the players with low level characters running low level leveling dungeons with higher level characters who have greater speed, experience and gear item levels, those new and low level players having to "catch up" or sometimes having to wade through opponents left behind and occasionally having to contend with these higher level players telling them to "hurry up", or in extreme examples either kicking a low level character or the upper level character abandoning the quest?

    I agree that every player wants to have a "fair chance of success" but for some players, particularly new players, the primary purpose isn't all about the AD payout at the end, it is to complete the required campaign tree event, explore and experience a new environments probably using new or fairly new to them tactics like working within a questing 'party' structure.

    It's important to try to keep the existing players happy with the game's content but it is my personal belief that ultimately the survivability of this game is going to be more dependent on being able to attract and keep new players than retain existing players who have figured out how to maximize their in game prosperity without actually having to purchase any of it with anything other than their time and effort.

    That's why I believe a tiered dungeon/skirmish system may indeed be the best suggestion, not just to keep higher level players from feeling frustrated because they have to run with inexperienced characters with lower gear item levels but to keep new, less experienced and lower gear level players from being frustrated because they aren't able to experience any of the content, or learn anything by having to run with higher level players so often.

    But then that's just my opinion.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,256Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    > @chidion said:
    > This morning, I successfully completed my first random queue FBI with 4 other random players and we were well above minimum item level, and all of us seemed to have prior experience in FBI.
    >
    > Since module 12b launched, all my other random queue FBI and MSP runs with 4 random players were failures with most players barely above minimum item level and equipping the cheapest armor/weapon enchantments from the AH.
    >
    > Please add a party total item level requirement (item level of all players combined) to the more difficult dungeons/skirmishes/raids. Yes, it will make those dungeons/skirmishes/raid a little less likely to be selected, but it will greatly reduce player frustration. I dont mind playing MSP if we have a fair chance of success, but when I see players with cheap gear, chosen purely because it gives the most item level per AD cost, it makes me feel angry that these players are expecting me to carry their outrageously inadequate characters.
    >
    > A very good example of players with characters having higher level gear and experience being unhappy with having to run with lower level characters and valid points for the most part I will admit, at least it doesn't appear to be exclusively about accumulating as many astral diamonds as quickly and easily as possible the way they used to do.
    >
    > But what about the players with low level characters running low level leveling dungeons with higher level characters who have greater speed, experience and gear item levels, those new and low level players having to "catch up" or sometimes having to wade through opponents left behind and occasionally having to contend with these higher level players telling them to "hurry up", or in extreme examples either kicking a low level character or the upper level character abandoning the quest?
    >
    > I agree that every player wants to have a "fair chance of success" but for some players, particularly new players, the primary purpose isn't all about the AD payout at the end, it is to complete the required campaign tree event, explore and experience a new environments probably using new or fairly new to them tactics like working within a questing 'party' structure.
    >
    > It's important to try to keep the existing players happy with the game's content but it is my personal belief that ultimately the survivability of this game is going to be more dependent on being able to attract and keep new players than retain existing players who have figured out how to maximize their in game prosperity without actually having to purchase any of it with anything other than their time and effort.
    >
    > That's why I believe a tiered dungeon/skirmish system may indeed be the best suggestion, not just to keep higher level players from feeling frustrated because they have to run with inexperienced characters with lower gear item levels but to keep new, less experienced and lower gear level players from being frustrated because they aren't able to experience any of the content, or learn anything by having to run with higher level players so often.
    >
    > But then that's just my opinion.

    We always kick the low lvl if they are more than 30 second's behind us. (Stop to loot a chest = kick)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • free2payfree2pay Posts: 280Member Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Add Dragon Flight to random queue as Hero's Accord version of Epic Skirmish.

    Turn Big Heroic Encounters from Elemental Evil areas and above into instanced version of Epic Skirmish in Random Queue.

    Ofc, they should still reward the same reward as their normal versions but add something more/extra since these contents are no longer relevant.
  • stupidconversionstupidconversion Posts: 33Member Arc User
    I'm really trying to just stop caring about AD, but that's not easy. One of the reasons I've mostly left STO is being forced into more and more content I don't want to do just to progress. Came back here after some absence and... oops.

    Can't stand random queues. I think one of the problems is that you think you're time-gating a resource, but you're actually time-gating fun. If I'm having fun, I'm not gathering resources. That's how a game becomes a chore.
  • seridkalsenovseridkalsenov Posts: 28Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 2017
    ok i'm not going to lie i do like random que for fast AD grind but there is some big downside on epic random que Tier.
    1. new lvl70 players mostly had low gear and hope to be paired with legit highbies that will help them finish the dungeon get the gear and seals but the problem is they need 30% EF resist to do random que, unlock FBI, unlock MSP which make this random que is only for highbies player.
    2. even some highbies player don't want to que random dungeon and random trial cuz of MSVA RNGess and FBI RNGess.please devs to make the dream of faster que is it better to make different random que choice? like T1: KR,Esot,MC,VT,elol and so goes for T2,T3
    so the conclusion is.
    Make the random que with different Tier choice, i know it will make FBI/MSP rarely picked but even with current R dungeon que a party got MSP/FBI mostly just vote to abandon unless they had 15-17k ilvl dps and tank same goes to MSVA.
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