lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
edited September 2017
Another Vote here for Extremely not happy.
Not sure whether I will quit this game over this, but I am tired of having to climb yet another mountain of grind, I'd rather work on some extra alts.
If you have to create some room for the extra 2 levels for enchants (which will be $$ driven), does it need to involve such a massive nerf to bondings?
I cant see how you would think this is a good thing. You are basically making companions completely worthless, not from a reduction in the percentages, but by reducing the up time on the bondings to 50%. I dont know about everyone else, but I rely on my companions bonding procs to maintain my Armor Pen and Critical Strike at the appropriate levels. If the bonding proc is only going to have a 50% uptime, then I am stuck with two options. 1)Run my builds with optimal AP and Crit at no bonding and when the bonding does proc, I am way over cap on these stats, or 2) Run my builds with optimal AP and Crit at bonding up and for 50% of the fight I will be completely worthless due to the fact that my AP and Crit will be so sub-optimal.
You said that bondings will still be best, the only way this is true is if the player using them is in a sub-optimal build/gear scenario. For anyone who actually has sufficient IL to optimize stats, they will be forced to convert to Augments for the 100% up time factor, even if it means an overall loss of effectiveness. 100% of an Augment, given the numbers you have provided, will be far far better that 50% of a bonding.
If you are looking to reduce the overall preference for bondings, then simply buff the augment effectiveness. There is no need to vastly overhaul the entire companion system.
No system that relies on temporary up time for stats like AP, Defense, or Crit are going to be effective. Power works just fine in this environment, most of the other stats do not.
Just a suggestion, before you lose a ton of players. Try adding playable content that does not require a perfect party composition and 15K+ IL to complete. Its fine to add this, but just give the average player something to do as well.
well said i totaly agree..
1
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
Just gutted after reading yesterdays planned changes. Getting bondings to the levels they are at hasn't come easy and these proposed changes make you rethink putting another cent or time towards the game. Introduced friends to game and they have been enjoying it and opening their wallets for you. I'll wait and see what happens but feel glad vip less than 50 days left.
I know you and flay and indeed most of Gutbusters at the time got burned big time when they released Insignia that buffed damage of companions, can't remember the details. Many players got burned and within a week it got nerfed into the ground with no respect at all to the cash people gave the company to have a bonus that they released.
I mean if it was so broken they had to immediately make all transactions worthless while still taking their customers cash, I would have thought it important enough to actually consider the impact on the game, if not test it before actually letting it go live.
Am really really glad however that not only have they posted this change in advance they also did not post it on a Friday.
We fully understand how big of a topic this is which is why we wanted to get the details out early to get feedback on all of the changes. And feedback certainly has been given! Although these types of topics can get heated due to the passion players have for this game, it is a good thing to see such involvement and discussion from our player base.
There are valid points being brought up through out this discussion. Reading over all of this feedback, from multiple sources, has allowed us to take a look at different perspectives on the bonding issues. Bonding runestones do need an adjustment and we'd like to allow for other companion and runestone choices to not be so underwhelming compared to a bonding companion.
Many of the points brought forward by you is that a 50% up time changes too many dynamics which will drive many players to feeling that an augment pet is the only correct route to play. That is not our intention and not where we want the game to go.
We are going to switch the up time to being able to be 100% (cooldown and up time will match). This will be with the lowered percentages that we presented and seems like the best way to address many of the concerns while still bringing bonding power more in line with where it should be.
Also, we are going to look into switching the offensive effect of Eldritch Runestones to match the defensive effect, meaning that either slot will grant the stat gain (it does mean the AP functionality of the Eldritch Runestone offensive slot is going away). This allows players who would like to use an augment pet with Eldritch Runestones to have a choice in which augment pet to use.
The concerns on dungeon runs/difficulty in the game with any changes to bonding runestones is not unnoticed and something we have been paying attention to internally throughout all of this. We have been doing internal testing on this and look forward to feedback during preview on this very topic.
THANK YOU. I was ready to write an interminable post complaining why reducing the uptime of Bondings to 50% was a TERRIBLE idea when I saw that. Now the hole update makes a lot more sense, i'm okay with that.
> @darkstarrfoff said: > basicly is, bondings buff stays 15secs up and has a 30secs cd after the fisrt click when bonding icon appears, basicly 15secs after the icon disspears, but bondings still BIS runes for companions, > > > > They reconsidered, now it's going to be "100% uptime" (details tbd). I just remember something. HP from augment is transferable, right? And, not transferable through bonding pet. For some build, augment is better. This is just a comment. I am not complaining. > > Yes, as it says now you are able to get 96k HP extra with the right stones. Is this confirmed to be wai? > > I think that is what it was when I was using augment (before bonding time). However, I don't trust my memory fully these days. > > I think the total is 108K if you put another 3 r14 radiant in. > > if u meant for oath paladins oath of protection, bondings with a striker companion is still better > > I would say that it significantly depends on what type of build you have. > > Power share is still a major buff that OPs provide, and if it continues to work with companions then an HP build might actually be very good. > > Additionally, HP benefits AoC damage. And there are prot-OP's which get a majority of their damage from AoC. So another +25% HP could potentially be a viable source of damage increase > > Wouldn't be 25% for 96k, that's almost 1/3rd of my nearly 300k HP OP. For Deko at some 330k that would push their pally to over 400k. Thing is though you would have to give up a lot of stats to do that currently and seemingly even in the new system. Even with the new changes to bondings 65% at rank 14 we will still see those numbers > > > Note i have seen and 280000 but i couldnt get fast a screenshot. > > We gonna see more than this if companions keep transfering the buffed power to the player and that because all we will get increase to our base power and companion power through level 14 radiants =1000 stat rating no matter what you did to the bonding . > > Its fine to keep the bonding as you plan too but please fix the double share of power through the bonding procs. Otherwise soon we'll have the same issues as the power creep will get even higher and you will have to nerf either the bonding or the classes that share power. > > I agree. Making companions only share their non buffed power would be far more effective than taking our stats away. This doesn't fix the real issue of the power share loop.
couldn't agree more this would fix the games problems in one simple fix without killing off any one class
Just gutted after reading yesterdays planned changes. Getting bondings to the levels they are at hasn't come easy and these proposed changes make you rethink putting another cent or time towards the game. Introduced friends to game and they have been enjoying it and opening their wallets for you. I'll wait and see what happens but feel glad vip less than 50 days left.
I know you and flay and indeed most of Gutbusters at the time got burned big time when they released Insignia that buffed damage of companions, can't remember the details. Many players got burned and within a week it got nerfed into the ground with no respect at all to the cash people gave the company to have a bonus that they released.
I mean if it was so broken they had to immediately make all transactions worthless while still taking their customers cash, I would have thought it important enough to actually consider the impact on the game, if not test it before actually letting it go live.
Am really really glad however that not only have they posted this change in advance they also did not post it on a Friday.
So for that they have a +1 from me.
I seriously did not expect any change at all. It surprised me they did not just leave it as originally intended and went with the flow . And i fully appreciate their fast response and that they reacted so fast.
Would it be too greedy to ask , to just leave the bondings as they are ? Would that be too much ?
I keep thinking , buffing the other runestones would make them a bit closer to the Bondings. Isnt that enough ? I asked all of the guildies about their opinion and in the end they are all horrified about changes to the bondings.
I do understand there has to be a change, but does it have to be so hard ? I t is like taking a chainsaw to try to cut a piece of a delicate paper.
Almost all of the people i know spent real cash to get them, and rank them to a satisfying level. They are expensive with a right. And for a really long period of time. It was WAI. Even when we asked about power share t was WAI, even when we pointed on what it does, how it works and what it can give, the answer was that it is okay.
Do not take me wrong i am not blaming ( the pitchforks are in the shed again ) but it is a big change, especially for people whose build revolves around bondings.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I am thoroughly appalled about this still.
Your removing our current % and expecting us to rebuy the same power we have on the same item.. LIKE seriously ? is this a reasonable function for a mmo company to do?
I just think they are totally off the rockers here still.
LEAVE bondings as they are .. if you want to sell new ranks.. add a .5% dps bonus on them or something similar.. trust me there are people who will pay you guys money for that.. but dont resell us the same power we already have..
I find the whole thing ludicrous.. terrible decision making and overall just one in a long line of history of events that they are off their mark about with the playerbase.
Just gutted after reading yesterdays planned changes. Getting bondings to the levels they are at hasn't come easy and these proposed changes make you rethink putting another cent or time towards the game. Introduced friends to game and they have been enjoying it and opening their wallets for you. I'll wait and see what happens but feel glad vip less than 50 days left.
I know you and flay and indeed most of Gutbusters at the time got burned big time when they released Insignia that buffed damage of companions, can't remember the details. Many players got burned and within a week it got nerfed into the ground with no respect at all to the cash people gave the company to have a bonus that they released.
I mean if it was so broken they had to immediately make all transactions worthless while still taking their customers cash, I would have thought it important enough to actually consider the impact on the game, if not test it before actually letting it go live.
Am really really glad however that not only have they posted this change in advance they also did not post it on a Friday.
So for that they have a +1 from me.
I seriously did not expect any change at all. It surprised me they did not just leave it as originally intended and went with the flow . And i fully appreciate their fast response and that they reacted so fast.
Would it be too greedy to ask , to just leave the bondings as they are ? Would that be too much ?
I keep thinking , buffing the other runestones would make them a bit closer to the Bondings. Isnt that enough ? I asked all of the guildies about their opinion and in the end they are all horrified about changes to the bondings.
I do understand there has to be a change, but does it have to be so hard ? I t is like taking a chainsaw to try to cut a piece of a delicate paper.
Almost all of the people i know spent real cash to get them, and rank them to a satisfying level. They are expensive with a right. And for a really long period of time. It was WAI. Even when we asked about power share t was WAI, even when we pointed on what it does, how it works and what it can give, the answer was that it is okay.
Do not take me wrong i am not blaming ( the pitchforks are in the shed again ) but it is a big change, especially for people whose build revolves around bondings.
Well, I can't speak for the devs, I truly can't, but bondings are not a problem. Stats are. Bondings are just an extremely efficient way to get them. This makes design of new end game content a pain in the Ares. Why? When everyone is capped on everything, The only real way to boost power level is to boost power stat, and the only way to make the content harder is to add more and more one-shot-kill IK mobs and bosses. Do you see how incredibly limiting this is in terms of end game? So the only way to appeas end game players is to add items with more power, or sneakily raise cap of other stats (Arm pen change for mod 12)
The devs wanted to several things at once: 1) get rid of a large amount of stats to release their desiging hands a little 2) introduce more options to the game 3) nerf the biggest source of power stat without actually fixing it (companion power loop - this is bull**** if you ask me, they should just fix it) 4)shuffle the meta 5)buff currently unused powers and feats.
They did it in a way that I personally thing would be very elegant, efficient, and without much coding time. The community really hates it and cannot thing straight, so they reverted it, and now we have, with introduction of r14 enchants, essentially the same situation. They made bondings only slightly worse, and they will look for new ways to strip stats in the future.
I think we will see giant overall stat effectiveness nerf in a near future. something like 50% down for everything (800 power for 1%, not 400 etc.) alongside some content balance
> @tripsofthrymr said: > The devs also said (last livestream) that there's a plan to rework dailies to make them feel more like, well, a daily (once a day) skill.
If THIS happens anyone who is left in game will leave. I've only been playing since PS4 launch and in one year this dev team has made me not even want to log in anymore. I already feel like I wasted so much money and time with bondings across 7 characters, buying legendary inventory bags and banks slots. Even VIP, and for what? The devs take our money then make decisions that a small percentage of people asked for a priority? What about the larger percentage giving feedback saying not to make this change? If the goal is to kill off Neverwinter then they have set it on the right course to do just that.
Founder of Knights of Ra guild in Neverwinter PS4. Founder of The Arashikage Clan in Defiance, formally of PlayStation Home.
Players using and pushing for bonding nerfs who say they are op should maybe unequip them and use something else. Let the rest of us enjoy our hard work of ranking them up.
Founder of Knights of Ra guild in Neverwinter PS4. Founder of The Arashikage Clan in Defiance, formally of PlayStation Home.
7
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I thought it bad if someone could get 30-40k power from an OP/DC power share, but skimming through this (skimming mind you), someone said 150-300k. OMG, now THAT has to go, and very few people would argue.
The problem is that some of the existing content is pretty much balanced around the assumption that DPSers do the massive damage that 280K Power gives them.
If you take away the massive power sharing, you might be turning a 10-minute fight into an hour-long one.
That's really my problem with the whole idea. The current end-game content is pretty well balanced, challenging and fun for fully geared, experienced players - and pretty much impossible to others. Yes, there is a gap, but there has to be - people need to have something to aim for.
Take away the gap, and you take away the challenge and the motivation for players to improve their characters.
The whole bonding nerf is just a cash grab, disguised as an attempt to "fix" a non-existing problem.
Hoping for improvements...
4
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
I thought it bad if someone could get 30-40k power from an OP/DC power share, but skimming through this (skimming mind you), someone said 150-300k. OMG, now THAT has to go, and very few people would argue.
The problem is that some of the existing content is pretty much balanced around the assumption that DPSers do the massive damage that 280K Power gives them.
If you take away the massive power sharing, you might be turning a 10-minute fight into an hour-long one.
That's really my problem with the whole idea. The current end-game content is pretty well balanced, challenging and fun for fully geared, experienced players - and pretty much impossible to others. Yes, there is a gap, but there has to be - people need to have something to aim for.
Take away the gap, and you take away the challenge and the motivation for players to improve their characters.
The whole bonding nerf is just a cash grab, disguised as an attempt to "fix" a non-existing problem.
Considering they are now moving to AD rewards only for pug runs, I assume/hope they will be taking this message and others that are similar and toning said content down. Othewise what's the point being forced to pug runs that cannot be completed by anyone not BiS regardless of iLevel.
Not sure if the devs really take any notice of these posts but I thought I'd inform them of what has happened since yesterdays announcement in our alliance. I'm a guild leader of a gh20 and we have another 8 gh20's in our alliance along with 4 other guilds in the high teens. All the leaders are saying the same thing, their guilds seem like ghost towns now with hardly anyone online at all since yesterdays announcement. Players are completely sick of the constant nerfs by the developers and no longer wish to endlessly grind to try to improve their characters knowing full well that the devs will probably heavily nerf them again when they feel like it. Having 9 gh20's in the alliance means we run a lot of end game content which will not become more difficult, just take a lot more time to complete with these bonding nerfs. There isn't a lot of content that caters for end game players and increasing the duration of runs really isnt sitting well with a lot of top players. This announcement by the developers yesterday is a monumental mistake and they really should reconsider their position at the moment because from what I'm hearing many players arent even going to download mod 12 and are already investing in new games to replace Neverwinter. I foresee a massive exodus from this game coming soon like none before and the developers really must understand that you just cannot treat your player base like this repeatedly and that there are many other great games out at the moment who's developers dont treat their paying players like dirt. Cryptic really need to rethink their strategy right now or I think the result will be that they have a completely dead game on their hands that nobody will recommend of give a good rating to. I suggest an emergency board meeting or something to try and sort this mess out as soon as possible because Neverwinter is truly finished otherwise.
"""""DO NOT Count Towards Power-Sharing "Base Power"
Companion's Gift (Bonding Runestone Stat Bonus)
Augment Companion Stat Bonus
Eldritch Runestone in Defense Slot Stat Bonus
Companion Legendary Active Bonus (+15% stats does not count towards your base power, but it does appear that the legendary stat bonus is calculated from the companion's buffed power stat, including any power buffs you are putting out)""""
On the main subject, i feel like Cryptic is trying to either kill the game slowly or trying to milk us again somehow.
When you powershare, you give that power to your companion, then the companion gives you that power through bondings. The power you get from the companion from bondings, you cannot powershare, thats why its advised to instead put recovery, crit, armpen or any other enchantments on your companion.
It goes something like this; You have 20k power. You give 20% of that power to your companion=4k power. Your companion now gives you 4k pow x3= 12k power. Now you have 40k+12k=52k power. If you powershare again, you'll share 4k power. That 12k from the companion cannot be shared.
I think that's the simplest way it can be explained, but its not entirely accurate. Now the reason why people say it will kill AC DC and OP, is more complicated to explain, but it has to do with the cooldown on the bondings. The thing is that powersharing by itself is not really that strong, it is the interaction between powersharing and bondings. Ill try tho
Good scenario; Companion gift is off. You powershare to your companion. Companion gift is on. You get back that power for the duration of companion's gift.
Bad scenario; Companion gift is on. You powershare your companion. Since companion gift is already on, he wont give you that power.
Again, that just a simple explanation. If anyone wants to try and explained with clarity, I wouldn't take it as an offense lol
The problem is never the DCs companion is the OTHERS (emphasis, not shouting) companion. When A dc will buff me I get the powershare then it buffs MY companion and I get the powershare twice and buffed at 275% and if I have a Paly it quadruples and a dps gets the power 4 times. I dont think this is right or indented, do you?
Also please lets use more realistic scenarios. Most DC run at 30k power and up to 52k max base power. How much share is that to both the dps and to the companion? That's what we are talking about. On the high end I've seen power with maxed pally and DC hitting 308k. Why isn't the same case with SW then? If its intended then all classes should be treated the same and the SW power share should do the same and buff the companions too.
Thats why everyone is worried but also trying to hide the fact that powershare "double dips" (as they call it) They argue about Tr double dipping on debuffs BUT its ok if we double and quadruple dip on powershare.
And I wanna hear from the people that always disagree and tell us as to WHY this should happen. Lets bring some attention to it.
Bondings are a paid for item. Other runstones drop from enemies and chest. The paid for items SHOULD have better stat ability than the free ones, not equal. Even though the change isn't as severe as was intitially announced it's still unecessary.
Founder of Knights of Ra guild in Neverwinter PS4. Founder of The Arashikage Clan in Defiance, formally of PlayStation Home.
Players using and pushing for bonding nerfs who say they are op should maybe unequip them and use something else. Let the rest of us enjoy our hard work of ranking them up.
This is a bad argument. Imagine running a marathon in which it is allowed to use bicycles, and then when the runners who complain about the bicycles because it makes the marathon kinda dull and uninteresting are told: Well maybe you shouldn't use it while we do. Or imagine a proffesional sport in which steroids are al Yeah, sure, they don't have to. But that's not how a game/competition works.
Bondings are a paid for item. Other runstones drop from enemies and chest. The paid for items SHOULD have better stat ability than the free ones, not equal. Even though the change isn't as severe as was intitially announced it's still unecessary.
Are you arguing in favor of pay2win economy? wouldn't it be better if we got away from that a little? Nerfing paid for items, getting a refund in some form, free exchange for other runestones?
Bondings are a paid for item. Other runstones drop from enemies and chest. The paid for items SHOULD have better stat ability than the free ones, not equal. Even though the change isn't as severe as was intitially announced it's still unecessary.
I fully agree, the bonding stones I paid for will cease to be the product I was sold when mod 12B drops. To my way of thinking this is nothing short of fraud and false advertising.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
I thought it bad if someone could get 30-40k power from an OP/DC power share, but skimming through this (skimming mind you), someone said 150-300k. OMG, now THAT has to go, and very few people would argue.
The problem is that some of the existing content is pretty much balanced around the assumption that DPSers do the massive damage that 280K Power gives them.
If you take away the massive power sharing, you might be turning a 10-minute fight into an hour-long one.
That's really my problem with the whole idea. The current end-game content is pretty well balanced, challenging and fun for fully geared, experienced players - and pretty much impossible to others. Yes, there is a gap, but there has to be - people need to have something to aim for.
Take away the gap, and you take away the challenge and the motivation for players to improve their characters.
The whole bonding nerf is just a cash grab, disguised as an attempt to "fix" a non-existing problem.
False the 10 minutes do not become 1 hour i have run without op and dc but with a sw that run the normal power share( do not transfer to companion) a spellplague turned into 30 minutes and not 1 hour and 20 minutes.
A real thing that just happened, our guild leader stepped down and a bunch of people passed on taking over the guild, myself included. You can't move the goal posts for best in slot out and then simultaneously move the ball back 30 yards. Everyone who knows this change is coming feels they have nothing to work towards getting their player better as it will be taken away shortly, so they're just quitting.
I'd be curious to know how Cryptic's (PWE) other games are doing financially. This just doesn't make any sense. The only so called "balance" that occurring here is their bottom line! Is it possible they are deliberately try to kill the game, make old content relevant (or more difficult), so that they can shift resources to another game that's more profitable, while we grind (or purchase) away to get back what's about to be stolen from us?
Not a good sign when guild leaders are quitting, start of the mass exodus from neverwinter I think. Thousands will quit over the next couple of weeks, people are really fed up with being treated so badly now by Cryptic.
Laying aside the nitty-gritty of the new refining system and the details of bonding changes, basically this remains a colossal con.
How else can it be taken..?
1) huge bonding nerf. This on top of the already extant problems with the mod12 legendary bonus - after I/we spent millions on upgrading extra companions to legendary... I STILL HAVE LOWER STATS than I did in mod 11.
2) okay, but hey, it could have been worse right... initially was going to be 50% uptime.
No it never was. Classic psych 101. You're gonna take someone's cookies away. You say "ooh we're gonna take aĺĺlllllllll yer cookies !!!!!!" They cry, so you say "Awww, okay, okay, don't cry, here, have half your cookies back."
Now, some small stupid part of you feels happy. Because gee-whizz, those nice people gave you some cookies.
I've played for 4 years. I'd got to the sweet spot, rnk12s on all offence slots, bis pet. Best gear. Basically I can play simply for fun, help others if I like, not worry about grinding.
Rnk14s. Yay, we can get the levels of stats (that we already have, right now) back again. How many slots do I have again..? How many coalwards will that be..? How much rp..?
Grind much..?
Not happy. Not happy at all.
A bonding nerf alone I could live with. At least that would be a straight up, level-playing field, bis toon remains bis toon, albeit with lower stats. But with rnk 14s a possibility, that goes out the window. The people with an absolute tonne of AD, and I know a few, not me unfortunately, are again gonna be at the advantage. The rest of us, well, we just got half our cookies stolen.
Firstly please don’t read this if you are looking for something positive, sadly I see nothing positive in the intended changes to bonding stones. These comments come from my perspective of a player who has enjoyed the game for a number of years and I guess could be considered an average player. By Average I mean I am not best in slot hitting the power level 280K some here have posted. I do have three rank 12 bonding stones and play 50% solo and 50% with a group of friends. I try to support the game within my budget by purchasing VIP and some Zen store stuff as I can afford it.
So if I have this correct in essence what you are proposing is to take away players Rank 12 Bonding stones and replace them with Rank 9’s. You will then give them the option to be able to upgrade them another two levels (with all the inherent grind and cost involved) to the equivalent Rank 10’s. To make this sound nice to will now call them Rank 14 –Hurray!
Am I happy about this change – the short answer is no
So let’s break this down as an average player there are two points I would consider. Firstly my emotive feelings towards the changes and secondly the enjoyment I receive from playing the game.
For the first part I see the changes as the game developers basically reducing my progression within the game and taking me back to the level I was at a year or so ago. So I am left feeling a little hollow about the whole affair. At the end of the day how can anyone feel and say something positive about a negative result? Hence if these changes happen the trust / relationship I have with this game will start to break down.
This brings me to the second aspect my enjoyment from playing the game. In essence if the game difficultly does not change then I am being excluded from playing content that I have unlocked. For example at present our group can on a good day just about complete FBI, but it’s a pain and hence a weekend only affair and quite often we fail. Although we have finished all the mods (except the latest) in terms of boons and the like, we cannot complete all of the dungeons, trials, and what have you associated with them. Most of our group find the new mod for example difficult to play solo and hence like to play this as a team. With your suggested changes this mod will become unplayable.
So what are we left with – can’t play the new content, back to playing the older dungeons only; how much enjoyment will I now be getting from this game?
Conclusion – will I rage quit?
No – but it will change my relationship with this game.
My solo 50% play time on Nerverwinter will now be pointless and hence I will start looking for a new game to play during those times. My 50% play time with my friends will remain a fun attraction – but left running the same old dungeons it will be reduced to more of an online chat forum to be honest. When my VIP runs out will I spend my gaming money on extending it; I doubt it. Will I spend money on upgrading – No. What’s the point, it will take me a year to get back to the stage I am at now only for the game developers to do the same thing again (it’s a trust thing).
So if the gaming difficulty remains the same and you make these changes you are ruining a lot of my enjoyment of this game. If you on the other hand reduce the gaming difficulty so it’s geared to the new changes – quite honestly what’s the point? You just upset the majority of your player base for what I can only assume is a quick buck.
At the end of the day there are better ways of attracting people away from using Bonding stones, adding a whole new level of grind for players like myself is quite literally self defeating – I cannot complete the grind now, and adding to it just makes me not want to bother. It’s meant to be fun pastime, not a job
Ok I can't point this out enough - just END THE COMPANION BUFFS. Keep the bloody bondings as they are, buff augments perhaps. Has Cryptic ever thought to make the players happy instead of pissed off? Because this is not how you do that. I'd freakkin' love to see no power share because it just makes stuff easy AND THIS DOESN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM. I hate to type in caps but damn this just requires it. Undo the changes. Save the game. Just remove power share and that's it. DCs are already too overpowered.
So you upgrade to R14 and at R14 yet the POWER SHARE at R. 14 is still LOWER then it was at R 12 , and it cost all that refinement COAL WARDS and UMOP ???? unbelievable , regardless of giving bacl 100% uptime your logic is ironic a R14 will be the same as a NOW R 10 to R 11 ! ... Am I wrong ??????
2
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Honestly before touching bondings I would remove double-dipping into power sharing. At that point we could test how different parties perform in dungeons, especially FBI-MSP-TONG and provide feedback about general performance and impact on OP and DC effectiveness. My guess is that at that point the power level of current bondings would probably feel more reasonable and less adjustments would be needed (thus angering less people). It will also help in reducing the requests for DC/OP in game and bringing them more in line with real population.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
"""""DO NOT Count Towards Power-Sharing "Base Power"
Companion's Gift (Bonding Runestone Stat Bonus)
Augment Companion Stat Bonus
Eldritch Runestone in Defense Slot Stat Bonus
Companion Legendary Active Bonus (+15% stats does not count towards your base power, but it does appear that the legendary stat bonus is calculated from the companion's buffed power stat, including any power buffs you are putting out)""""
On the main subject, i feel like Cryptic is trying to either kill the game slowly or trying to milk us again somehow.
When you powershare, you give that power to your companion, then the companion gives you that power through bondings. The power you get from the companion from bondings, you cannot powershare, thats why its advised to instead put recovery, crit, armpen or any other enchantments on your companion.
It goes something like this; You have 20k power. You give 20% of that power to your companion=4k power. Your companion now gives you 4k pow x3= 12k power. Now you have 40k+12k=52k power. If you powershare again, you'll share 4k power. That 12k from the companion cannot be shared.
I think that's the simplest way it can be explained, but its not entirely accurate. Now the reason why people say it will kill AC DC and OP, is more complicated to explain, but it has to do with the cooldown on the bondings. The thing is that powersharing by itself is not really that strong, it is the interaction between powersharing and bondings. Ill try tho
Good scenario; Companion gift is off. You powershare to your companion. Companion gift is on. You get back that power for the duration of companion's gift.
Bad scenario; Companion gift is on. You powershare your companion. Since companion gift is already on, he wont give you that power.
Again, that just a simple explanation. If anyone wants to try and explained with clarity, I wouldn't take it as an offense lol
The problem is never the DCs companion is the OTHERS (emphasis, not shouting) companion. When A dc will buff me I get the powershare then it buffs MY companion and I get the powershare twice and buffed at 275% and if I have a Paly it quadruples and a dps gets the power 4 times. I dont think this is right or indented, do you?
Also please lets use more realistic scenarios. Most DC run at 30k power and up to 52k max base power. How much share is that to both the dps and to the companion? That's what we are talking about. On the high end I've seen power with maxed pally and DC hitting 308k. Why isn't the same case with SW then? If its intended then all classes should be treated the same and the SW power share should do the same and buff the companions too.
Thats why everyone is worried but also trying to hide the fact that powershare "double dips" (as they call it) They argue about Tr double dipping on debuffs BUT its ok if we double and quadruple dip on powershare.
And I wanna hear from the people that always disagree and tell us as to WHY this should happen. Lets bring some attention to it.
it is right because they, the developers, released new content build around the mechanic. This is an action MMO, 2 hours running a dungeon ain't normal. It is intended because they themselves stated so. When they reworked bondings, they knew that and were aware of the effects. The rework made it so that it would be even easier to use this INTENDED mechanic with an even wider variety of companions. This is the part when you guys start making no sense "When A dc will buff me I get the powershare then it buffs MY companion and I get the powershare twice and buffed at 275% and if I have a Paly it quadruples and a dps gets the power 4 times." SIMPLE unequip your bondings. But when you do that, you complain cause the other players don't follow your steps. Then find others who do, and run with them.
I had no need for realistic scenarios, numbers are irrelevant, cause I was just explaining the way powershare+bonidngs work. I was not hiding anything.
You failed as soon as you compared a dc's powersharing to a sw dark revelry, and asking for all classes to be treated the same. To clarify, dark revelry is a 20% boost to base pow of whoever gets the buff, and it does affect companions. Now cause the sw has a move that benefits the party to some extent, it don't make him a supporter, he just has the option to act like one, however his innate role is that of a dpser. A DC is a support with the option of dipping into dps. Every class already has those options, but they excel at one more than the other. If they all are capable of doing the same to the same extent, then why even bother having so many classes?
No one hides any facts. You are the only one in fear that nothing changes. It is easier for you to ask that everyone gets put at your level, than you putting the effort to get to theirs. Perhaps, because you already tried it, and it sucked. Maybe, its you hiding that fact, wanting others to be made aware of it without exposing yourself.
The best fix for the bondings issue, which frankly I don't see it been one, was to get augments and runestones buffed to be competitive. But you didn't ask for that cause you thought it would be easier for you the other way around. And the scenario is still the same. Augments will fill in for bondings, they will be sought after along with runestones, prices will go up as high as some companions and bondings where, and you are still in the same position as you were before. Then you will complain about that or find something new to complain about because it is easier than putting up with it like others do. Any ease of access would be momentary and short lived, because its a game with a free market mechanism. If it is now better to run with augments, AD prices AND trade value will sky high if the supplier so desires. ARC will then find a way to benefit out of that through the Zen store or Zen to AD exchange. Nothing was achieved, unless the goal was to HAMSTER people off.
And this will come as a shocker to you, but it's the truth, the nerf was going to happen regardless. It had nothing to do with your and others complains. And I don't hold that against you, but what I do is that by keeping up that mentality and turning against the majority of the community, you support this behavior from the publishers/developers. It has nothing to do with creating balance in the game, its all about making money, and your dim numbers would have actually made a difference on this side of the fight, and not in between acting as cannon fodder.
Even then, who in their right mind would be fine with stuff been taken away from them? It makes no sense unless you hold a grudge against those who have what you don't. Its as silly as asking for everyone's legs to be chopped off because you can't make it up a stairwell, and then later forcing everyone to take the elevator with you. Ain't that dicky? Yet you going to keep repeating the same HAMSTER without adding anything new or truly relevant.
Post edited by gerverpanda on
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
I couldn't agree more. The only correct action here is for Cryptic to completely reverse this decision. Those clamoring for a compromise simply don't understand the economic and sociological consequences behind this change.
Moreover, I believe Cryptic understands all to well, and will continue to exploit decent in the debate.
Comments
Not sure whether I will quit this game over this, but I am tired of having to climb yet another mountain of grind, I'd rather work on some extra alts.
If you have to create some room for the extra 2 levels for enchants (which will be $$ driven), does it need to involve such a massive nerf to bondings?
I mean if it was so broken they had to immediately make all transactions worthless while still taking their customers cash, I would have thought it important enough to actually consider the impact on the game, if not test it before actually letting it go live.
Am really really glad however that not only have they posted this change in advance they also did not post it on a Friday.
So for that they have a +1 from me.
I was ready to write an interminable post complaining why reducing the uptime of Bondings to 50% was a TERRIBLE idea when I saw that. Now the hole update makes a lot more sense, i'm okay with that.
> basicly is, bondings buff stays 15secs up and has a 30secs cd after the fisrt click when bonding icon appears, basicly 15secs after the icon disspears, but bondings still BIS runes for companions,
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> They reconsidered, now it's going to be "100% uptime" (details tbd). I just remember something. HP from augment is transferable, right? And, not transferable through bonding pet. For some build, augment is better. This is just a comment. I am not complaining.
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> Yes, as it says now you are able to get 96k HP extra with the right stones. Is this confirmed to be wai?
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> I think that is what it was when I was using augment (before bonding time). However, I don't trust my memory fully these days.
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> I think the total is 108K if you put another 3 r14 radiant in.
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> if u meant for oath paladins oath of protection, bondings with a striker companion is still better
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> I would say that it significantly depends on what type of build you have.
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> Power share is still a major buff that OPs provide, and if it continues to work with companions then an HP build might actually be very good.
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> Additionally, HP benefits AoC damage. And there are prot-OP's which get a majority of their damage from AoC. So another +25% HP could potentially be a viable source of damage increase
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> Wouldn't be 25% for 96k, that's almost 1/3rd of my nearly 300k HP OP. For Deko at some 330k that would push their pally to over 400k. Thing is though you would have to give up a lot of stats to do that currently and seemingly even in the new system. Even with the new changes to bondings 65% at rank 14 we will still see those numbers
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> Note i have seen and 280000 but i couldnt get fast a screenshot.
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> We gonna see more than this if companions keep transfering the buffed power to the player and that because all we will get increase to our base power and companion power through level 14 radiants =1000 stat rating no matter what you did to the bonding .
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> Its fine to keep the bonding as you plan too but please fix the double share of power through the bonding procs. Otherwise soon we'll have the same issues as the power creep will get even higher and you will have to nerf either the bonding or the classes that share power.
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> I agree. Making companions only share their non buffed power would be far more effective than taking our stats away. This doesn't fix the real issue of the power share loop.
couldn't agree more this would fix the games problems in one simple fix without killing off any one class
It surprised me they did not just leave it as originally intended and went with the flow .
And i fully appreciate their fast response and that they reacted so fast.
Would it be too greedy to ask , to just leave the bondings as they are ? Would that be too much ?
I keep thinking , buffing the other runestones would make them a bit closer to the Bondings. Isnt that enough ?
I asked all of the guildies about their opinion and in the end they are all horrified about changes to the bondings.
I do understand there has to be a change, but does it have to be so hard ? I
t is like taking a chainsaw to try to cut a piece of a delicate paper.
Almost all of the people i know spent real cash to get them, and rank them to a satisfying level.
They are expensive with a right. And for a really long period of time. It was WAI.
Even when we asked about power share t was WAI, even when we pointed on what it does, how it works and what it can give, the answer was that it is okay.
Do not take me wrong i am not blaming ( the pitchforks are in the shed again ) but it is a big change, especially for people whose build revolves around bondings.
Your removing our current % and expecting us to rebuy the same power we have on the same item.. LIKE seriously ? is this a reasonable function for a mmo company to do?
I just think they are totally off the rockers here still.
LEAVE bondings as they are .. if you want to sell new ranks.. add a .5% dps bonus on them or something similar.. trust me there are people who will pay you guys money for that.. but dont resell us the same power we already have..
I find the whole thing ludicrous.. terrible decision making and overall just one in a long line of history of events that they are off their mark about with the playerbase.
Why?
When everyone is capped on everything, The only real way to boost power level is to boost power stat, and the only way to make the content harder is to add more and more one-shot-kill IK mobs and bosses.
Do you see how incredibly limiting this is in terms of end game?
So the only way to appeas end game players is to add items with more power, or sneakily raise cap of other stats (Arm pen change for mod 12)
The devs wanted to several things at once: 1) get rid of a large amount of stats to release their desiging hands a little 2) introduce more options to the game 3) nerf the biggest source of power stat without actually fixing it (companion power loop - this is bull**** if you ask me, they should just fix it) 4)shuffle the meta 5)buff currently unused powers and feats.
They did it in a way that I personally thing would be very elegant, efficient, and without much coding time. The community really hates it and cannot thing straight, so they reverted it, and now we have, with introduction of r14 enchants, essentially the same situation. They made bondings only slightly worse, and they will look for new ways to strip stats in the future.
I think we will see giant overall stat effectiveness nerf in a near future. something like 50% down for everything (800 power for 1%, not 400 etc.) alongside some content balance
[PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
> The devs also said (last livestream) that there's a plan to rework dailies to make them feel more like, well, a daily (once a day) skill.
If THIS happens anyone who is left in game will leave. I've only been playing since PS4 launch and in one year this dev team has made me not even want to log in anymore. I already feel like I wasted so much money and time with bondings across 7 characters, buying legendary inventory bags and banks slots. Even VIP, and for what? The devs take our money then make decisions that a small percentage of people asked for a priority? What about the larger percentage giving feedback saying not to make this change? If the goal is to kill off Neverwinter then they have set it on the right course to do just that.
If you take away the massive power sharing, you might be turning a 10-minute fight into an hour-long one.
That's really my problem with the whole idea. The current end-game content is pretty well balanced, challenging and fun for fully geared, experienced players - and pretty much impossible to others. Yes, there is a gap, but there has to be - people need to have something to aim for.
Take away the gap, and you take away the challenge and the motivation for players to improve their characters.
The whole bonding nerf is just a cash grab, disguised as an attempt to "fix" a non-existing problem.
EDIT:
Here is the Dev post that describes fully the proposed changes.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1234049/official-feedback-thread-random-queues/p1
All the leaders are saying the same thing, their guilds seem like ghost towns now with hardly anyone online at all since yesterdays announcement.
Players are completely sick of the constant nerfs by the developers and no longer wish to endlessly grind to try to improve their characters knowing full well that the devs will probably heavily nerf them again when they feel like it.
Having 9 gh20's in the alliance means we run a lot of end game content which will not become more difficult, just take a lot more time to complete with these bonding nerfs.
There isn't a lot of content that caters for end game players and increasing the duration of runs really isnt sitting well with a lot of top players.
This announcement by the developers yesterday is a monumental mistake and they really should reconsider their position at the moment because from what I'm hearing many players arent even going to download mod 12 and are already investing in new games to replace Neverwinter. I foresee a massive exodus from this game coming soon like none before and the developers really must understand that you just cannot treat your player base like this repeatedly and that there are many other great games out at the moment who's developers dont treat their paying players like dirt.
Cryptic really need to rethink their strategy right now or I think the result will be that they have a completely dead game on their hands that nobody will recommend of give a good rating to.
I suggest an emergency board meeting or something to try and sort this mess out as soon as possible because Neverwinter is truly finished otherwise.
Also please lets use more realistic scenarios. Most DC run at 30k power and up to 52k max base power. How much share is that to both the dps and to the companion? That's what we are talking about. On the high end I've seen power with maxed pally and DC hitting 308k. Why isn't the same case with SW then? If its intended then all classes should be treated the same and the SW power share should do the same and buff the companions too.
Thats why everyone is worried but also trying to hide the fact that powershare "double dips" (as they call it) They argue about Tr double dipping on debuffs BUT its ok if we double and quadruple dip on powershare.
And I wanna hear from the people that always disagree and tell us as to WHY this should happen. Lets bring some attention to it.
Yeah, sure, they don't have to. But that's not how a game/competition works. Are you arguing in favor of pay2win economy?
wouldn't it be better if we got away from that a little? Nerfing paid for items, getting a refund in some form, free exchange for other runestones?
[PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
We had the PS4 spotlight, only guild to have one.
How else can it be taken..?
1) huge bonding nerf. This on top of the already extant problems with the mod12 legendary bonus - after I/we spent millions on upgrading extra companions to legendary... I STILL HAVE LOWER STATS than I did in mod 11.
2) okay, but hey, it could have been worse right... initially was going to be 50% uptime.
No it never was. Classic psych 101. You're gonna take someone's cookies away. You say "ooh we're gonna take aĺĺlllllllll yer cookies !!!!!!" They cry, so you say "Awww, okay, okay, don't cry, here, have half your cookies back."
Now, some small stupid part of you feels happy. Because gee-whizz, those nice people gave you some cookies.
I've played for 4 years. I'd got to the sweet spot, rnk12s on all offence slots, bis pet. Best gear. Basically I can play simply for fun, help others if I like, not worry about grinding.
Rnk14s. Yay, we can get the levels of stats (that we already have, right now) back again. How many slots do I have again..? How many coalwards will that be..? How much rp..?
Grind much..?
Not happy. Not happy at all.
A bonding nerf alone I could live with. At least that would be a straight up, level-playing field, bis toon remains bis toon, albeit with lower stats. But with rnk 14s a possibility, that goes out the window. The people with an absolute tonne of AD, and I know a few, not me unfortunately, are again gonna be at the advantage. The rest of us, well, we just got half our cookies stolen.
Hi all
Firstly please don’t read this if you are looking for something positive, sadly I see nothing positive in the intended changes to bonding stones. These comments come from my perspective of a player who has enjoyed the game for a number of years and I guess could be considered an average player. By Average I mean I am not best in slot hitting the power level 280K some here have posted. I do have three rank 12 bonding stones and play 50% solo and 50% with a group of friends. I try to support the game within my budget by purchasing VIP and some Zen store stuff as I can afford it.
So if I have this correct in essence what you are proposing is to take away players Rank 12 Bonding stones and replace them with Rank 9’s. You will then give them the option to be able to upgrade them another two levels (with all the inherent grind and cost involved) to the equivalent Rank 10’s. To make this sound nice to will now call them Rank 14 –Hurray!
Am I happy about this change – the short answer is no
So let’s break this down as an average player there are two points I would consider. Firstly my emotive feelings towards the changes and secondly the enjoyment I receive from playing the game.
For the first part I see the changes as the game developers basically reducing my progression within the game and taking me back to the level I was at a year or so ago. So I am left feeling a little hollow about the whole affair. At the end of the day how can anyone feel and say something positive about a negative result? Hence if these changes happen the trust / relationship I have with this game will start to break down.
This brings me to the second aspect my enjoyment from playing the game. In essence if the game difficultly does not change then I am being excluded from playing content that I have unlocked. For example at present our group can on a good day just about complete FBI, but it’s a pain and hence a weekend only affair and quite often we fail. Although we have finished all the mods (except the latest) in terms of boons and the like, we cannot complete all of the dungeons, trials, and what have you associated with them. Most of our group find the new mod for example difficult to play solo and hence like to play this as a team. With your suggested changes this mod will become unplayable.
So what are we left with – can’t play the new content, back to playing the older dungeons only; how much enjoyment will I now be getting from this game?
Conclusion – will I rage quit?
No – but it will change my relationship with this game.
My solo 50% play time on Nerverwinter will now be pointless and hence I will start looking for a new game to play during those times. My 50% play time with my friends will remain a fun attraction – but left running the same old dungeons it will be reduced to more of an online chat forum to be honest. When my VIP runs out will I spend my gaming money on extending it; I doubt it. Will I spend money on upgrading – No. What’s the point, it will take me a year to get back to the stage I am at now only for the game developers to do the same thing again (it’s a trust thing).
So if the gaming difficulty remains the same and you make these changes you are ruining a lot of my enjoyment of this game. If you on the other hand reduce the gaming difficulty so it’s geared to the new changes – quite honestly what’s the point? You just upset the majority of your player base for what I can only assume is a quick buck.
At the end of the day there are better ways of attracting people away from using Bonding stones, adding a whole new level of grind for players like myself is quite literally self defeating – I cannot complete the grind now, and adding to it just makes me not want to bother. It’s meant to be fun pastime, not a job
Respectfully yours
An average player
At that point we could test how different parties perform in dungeons, especially FBI-MSP-TONG and provide feedback about general performance and impact on OP and DC effectiveness.
My guess is that at that point the power level of current bondings would probably feel more reasonable and less adjustments would be needed (thus angering less people). It will also help in reducing the requests for DC/OP in game and bringing them more in line with real population.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I had no need for realistic scenarios, numbers are irrelevant, cause I was just explaining the way powershare+bonidngs work. I was not hiding anything.
You failed as soon as you compared a dc's powersharing to a sw dark revelry, and asking for all classes to be treated the same. To clarify, dark revelry is a 20% boost to base pow of whoever gets the buff, and it does affect companions. Now cause the sw has a move that benefits the party to some extent, it don't make him a supporter, he just has the option to act like one, however his innate role is that of a dpser. A DC is a support with the option of dipping into dps. Every class already has those options, but they excel at one more than the other. If they all are capable of doing the same to the same extent, then why even bother having so many classes?
No one hides any facts. You are the only one in fear that nothing changes. It is easier for you to ask that everyone gets put at your level, than you putting the effort to get to theirs. Perhaps, because you already tried it, and it sucked. Maybe, its you hiding that fact, wanting others to be made aware of it without exposing yourself.
The best fix for the bondings issue, which frankly I don't see it been one, was to get augments and runestones buffed to be competitive. But you didn't ask for that cause you thought it would be easier for you the other way around. And the scenario is still the same. Augments will fill in for bondings, they will be sought after along with runestones, prices will go up as high as some companions and bondings where, and you are still in the same position as you were before. Then you will complain about that or find something new to complain about because it is easier than putting up with it like others do. Any ease of access would be momentary and short lived, because its a game with a free market mechanism. If it is now better to run with augments, AD prices AND trade value will sky high if the supplier so desires. ARC will then find a way to benefit out of that through the Zen store or Zen to AD exchange. Nothing was achieved, unless the goal was to HAMSTER people off.
And this will come as a shocker to you, but it's the truth, the nerf was going to happen regardless. It had nothing to do with your and others complains. And I don't hold that against you, but what I do is that by keeping up that mentality and turning against the majority of the community, you support this behavior from the publishers/developers. It has nothing to do with creating balance in the game, its all about making money, and your dim numbers would have actually made a difference on this side of the fight, and not in between acting as cannon fodder.
Even then, who in their right mind would be fine with stuff been taken away from them? It makes no sense unless you hold a grudge against those who have what you don't. Its as silly as asking for everyone's legs to be chopped off because you can't make it up a stairwell, and then later forcing everyone to take the elevator with you. Ain't that dicky? Yet you going to keep repeating the same HAMSTER without adding anything new or truly relevant.
I couldn't agree more. The only correct action here is for Cryptic to completely reverse this decision. Those clamoring for a compromise simply don't understand the economic and sociological consequences behind this change.
Moreover, I believe Cryptic understands all to well, and will continue to exploit decent in the debate.