Once mod 12 hits, will you still be recomending ROE for single target rotation in a heavy debuff party, or something like icy rays?
@niadan it would have to be a very heavy debuff party for me to recommend otherwise (a lot more debuffs than most groups will have) and in which case I would recommend repel instead.
I'd just like to know how to get to 100% crit chance....is this with bondings procs or without? I have brutals in every slot of my main except main weapons (radiants) but even if I switched i'd just be adding 1400 crit. I stand at 71.5% crit (around 16k). I just need enlightment because even with your awesome guide janna's page just gave me a rash (too much math...)
Yes most if not all peeps are getting 100% crit through the help of bondings.
I want to say it's impossible to get 100% without the aid of a companion? Not confident on that, but even if it's possible it would be quite sub optimal.
I still wouldnt mind seeing some ACT logs of a fully geared dungeon ready wizard comparing Bilethorn Vs Holy Avenger. Perhaps on a glitched drufi, so icy terrain keeps ticking unlike on a dummy.
In a vacuum with no feats and such, bilethorn appears to crit WAY more than in an actual dungeon (crit flag or some other reason). Additionally, if you only had 75% crit sev when testing bilethorn, it would test better than it actually would be
Is it worth getting Mirage weapons for single target loadout (Thaum + Abyss of Chaos) and use it on bosses? Currently using Fey with Lightning (I have Vorpal on another character I could borrow, also waiting for mod 12 to hit consoles to restore Relic weapons). What would be better to use with Mirage then? Single target spells like CS, IR with Vorpal or CoI, IT with proc enchant like Terror, or can stick to Vorpal with CoI and IT?
If there is another CW in party already using RoE on boss fight, should I still also use RoE (usual rotation CoI on tab, IT, Dis, RoE) or would it be better to switch to something else for more damage?
I did a half assed test today on a glitched drufi. I did 1 minute of combat with a bilethorn, and 1 minute with holy avenger. I had everyone else stand across the room. Was using CoI, icy terrain, disintegrate, sudden storm, and ice knife, thaum/ren build.
For the Holy avenger I did 6,521,000 For bilethorn I did 5,418,000 damage
The reason I say half assed, it was only 1 minute (I kept messing up the timer, everyone was losing patience lol) and I screwed up my rotation on the Bilethorn briefly. I doubt I lost 1.1m damage from that rotation screw up. Also, didnt think about this till it was too late, but I was using mirage weapons, so potentially I had unwanted combat advantage at some point. Anyone with more patient friends want to try this for a longer duration?
Just wanted to post that news of another mechanics guide by Sharp brought me back to the game after a 6-8 month hiatus. Glad to see you back to leading the community here. TY for all the work.
Also - one question. I see others have referred to suggested load outs. Is there a section of the guide that I am overlooking which has the familiar build setups section from the previous version? I really like the format of the comparisons in this one, but I'm having difficulty putting it to application after being away for so long
Also - one question. I see others have referred to suggested load outs. Is there a section of the guide that I am overlooking which has the familiar build setups section from the previous version? I really like the format of the comparisons in this one, but I'm having difficulty putting it to application after being away for so long
Read the intro.
Some of Sharp's first words are amongst the lines of "you will not find any builds in this guide".
Truly, thank you for posting all this research. So much knowledge in one resource!
I know I am probably just nitpicking words from a tooltip that is imprecise but I just want to check:
Frigid Winds says "Foes who have been frozen..."
When I read this, my interpretation is that upon being frozen there is a debuff that applies to them for X seconds, even if they become unfrozen. Is this the case or does the debuff apply strictly for the number of seconds that they remain frozen?
Thank you so much for all your hard work on this, and the further updating. I didn't realize you'd started back until someone mentioned in our Alliance Discord. Anyway, I was hoping you wouldn't mind if I post your guide's link on our Discord and/or fb for others to access if they desire? Thanks, M
Thought he was MIA for a while...give him our best...and stay away from his graph paper binders!
I probably need to.
The mad scientist's path of (near permanent?) exile has resulted in him putting out incorrect information for Lightning on single target (not that it matters too much).
Sharp claims that in his list of J value procs that the Lightning burst is worth 10.56% of weapon damage, or, if you're using the preview fixed damage weapon, it should appear as 105.6.
This is false, it should be 0.0825% of weapon damage, or 82.5 on fixed damage weapons just like most classes.
Here's my test parameters.
Character:
Rounded ACT version:
Exact ACT Log
If you can't read it, the exact burst damage was 89.925.
My character had 19 INT at the time of testing (after calculating, my CW took a -1 INT penalty from Sharp failure), so the damage was being multiplied by 1.09. If we take the damage of the burst and divide it by 1.09...
89.925/1.09 =82.5
Just as predicted.
So, Sharp needs to change his burst values from 105.6 down to 82.5 to actually be accurate.
Now, whether he actually updates for Mod12 is a different story...
--
Oh, and Sharp, this time, you don't have the excuse of lacking fixed damage weapons. You have nobody to blame but yourself (*cues Bethel and the 50 Shades of Blame crew*).
I'd just like to know how to get to 100% crit chance....is this with bondings procs or without? I have brutals in every slot of my main except main weapons (radiants) but even if I switched i'd just be adding 1400 crit. I stand at 71.5% crit (around 16k). I just need enlightment because even with your awesome guide janna's page just gave me a rash (too much math...)
Drink a +1000/1500/2000 potion of crit (accuracy ) as well bro drink a potion that adds crit severity / wildstorm elixir drink a potion of heroism / fate get a mount that adds +2000 / 4000 crit get the guild food buff that adds more +200-1000 crit ... get the ion stone that adds +10% crit when you are below 50% health (does not need to be your main companion ) there are many ways to sneak in more crit i can probably think of 10 more ,, lucky coin/ has a random buff of crit etc
The part about stacking Smoulder and Rimefire for double Swath debuff by critting with Icy Terrain when using Critical Conflagration. So in that case by having 100% crit chance, using CC+SoD, not running Icy Veins and assuming there is no other CW in group who could mess up stacking with his Chill, if I use IT after bondings proc and as the first power that applies Chill, I'm just making sure all the mobs that got hit with it will be debuffed by 40% from Swath with both Smoulder and Rimefire. Now, after that I'd be critting with other arcane spells as well as Icy Terrain ticks so Smoulder will be refreshed and won't ever fall off (as well as Rimefire than can then in addition to IT be refreshed by CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud), so then the only way I'd not get double Swath debuff or prevent it from stacking is if I hit with CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud a target that hasn't been affected by IT to stack Smoulder and Rimefire first. So unless a target hit by CoI runs around and apply Chill to other target that haven't been debuffed and converts Smoulder to Rimefire without stacking it, I'm basically getting 40% Swath debuff all the time.
The part about stacking Smoulder and Rimefire for double Swath debuff by critting with Icy Terrain when using Critical Conflagration. So in that case by having 100% crit chance, using CC+SoD, not running Icy Veins and assuming there is no other CW in group who could mess up stacking with his Chill, if I use IT after bondings proc and as the first power that applies Chill, I'm just making sure all the mobs that got hit with it will be debuffed by 40% from Swath with both Smoulder and Rimefire. Now, after that I'd be critting with other arcane spells as well as Icy Terrain ticks so Smoulder will be refreshed and won't ever fall off (as well as Rimefire than can then in addition to IT be refreshed by CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud), so then the only way I'd not get double Swath debuff or prevent it from stacking is if I hit with CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud a target that hasn't been affected by IT to stack Smoulder and Rimefire first. So unless a target hit by CoI runs around and apply Chill to other target that haven't been debuffed and converts Smoulder to Rimefire without stacking it, I'm basically getting 40% Swath debuff all the time.
Is that right or I'm missing something here?
If I'm reading your question right (bit of a text wall, sorry) then yes. However, to do that you need to drop the combustive action debuff, which is stronger than a second swath and also gets you the extra ap gain on kill.
Double stacking has only seemed worthwhile to me for bosses, where you can use one of the other methods and where the enemy will live long enough for the extra debuffs to actually matter.
The part about stacking Smoulder and Rimefire for double Swath debuff by critting with Icy Terrain when using Critical Conflagration. So in that case by having 100% crit chance, using CC+SoD, not running Icy Veins and assuming there is no other CW in group who could mess up stacking with his Chill, if I use IT after bondings proc and as the first power that applies Chill, I'm just making sure all the mobs that got hit with it will be debuffed by 40% from Swath with both Smoulder and Rimefire. Now, after that I'd be critting with other arcane spells as well as Icy Terrain ticks so Smoulder will be refreshed and won't ever fall off (as well as Rimefire than can then in addition to IT be refreshed by CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud), so then the only way I'd not get double Swath debuff or prevent it from stacking is if I hit with CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud a target that hasn't been affected by IT to stack Smoulder and Rimefire first. So unless a target hit by CoI runs around and apply Chill to other target that haven't been debuffed and converts Smoulder to Rimefire without stacking it, I'm basically getting 40% Swath debuff all the time.
Is that right or I'm missing something here?
If I'm reading your question right (bit of a text wall, sorry) then yes. However, to do that you need to drop the combustive action debuff, which is stronger than a second swath and also gets you the extra ap gain on kill.
Double stacking has only seemed worthwhile to me for bosses, where you can use one of the other methods and where the enemy will live long enough for the extra debuffs to actually matter.
Is double Swath really worth more on bosses than trash? On bosses it's easier for all classes to apply their debuffs than on trash. I really like to run CC+SoD for trash on MoF Rene loadout with DPS gear (100% crit, dps companions, Lightning).
The part about stacking Smoulder and Rimefire for double Swath debuff by critting with Icy Terrain when using Critical Conflagration. So in that case by having 100% crit chance, using CC+SoD, not running Icy Veins and assuming there is no other CW in group who could mess up stacking with his Chill, if I use IT after bondings proc and as the first power that applies Chill, I'm just making sure all the mobs that got hit with it will be debuffed by 40% from Swath with both Smoulder and Rimefire. Now, after that I'd be critting with other arcane spells as well as Icy Terrain ticks so Smoulder will be refreshed and won't ever fall off (as well as Rimefire than can then in addition to IT be refreshed by CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud), so then the only way I'd not get double Swath debuff or prevent it from stacking is if I hit with CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud a target that hasn't been affected by IT to stack Smoulder and Rimefire first. So unless a target hit by CoI runs around and apply Chill to other target that haven't been debuffed and converts Smoulder to Rimefire without stacking it, I'm basically getting 40% Swath debuff all the time.
Is that right or I'm missing something here?
If I'm reading your question right (bit of a text wall, sorry) then yes. However, to do that you need to drop the combustive action debuff, which is stronger than a second swath and also gets you the extra ap gain on kill.
Double stacking has only seemed worthwhile to me for bosses, where you can use one of the other methods and where the enemy will live long enough for the extra debuffs to actually matter.
Is double Swath really worth more on bosses than trash? On bosses it's easier for all classes to apply their debuffs than on trash. I really like to run CC+SoD for trash on MoF Rene loadout with DPS gear (100% crit, dps companions, Lightning).
I just think that you can apply 4% more debuff with combustive action while getting the extra AP back from killing enemies and have the same dps. You could also try double stacking in that setup, but in a solid group by the time you get a double stack going most things will probably already be dead.
The only place I see CC being useful is in a dedicated dps build where you don't want to waste time applying smolder manually.
Then again its been quite a while since I've been MoF, so my theory may not work as planned in real gameplay.
The part about stacking Smoulder and Rimefire for double Swath debuff by critting with Icy Terrain when using Critical Conflagration. So in that case by having 100% crit chance, using CC+SoD, not running Icy Veins and assuming there is no other CW in group who could mess up stacking with his Chill, if I use IT after bondings proc and as the first power that applies Chill, I'm just making sure all the mobs that got hit with it will be debuffed by 40% from Swath with both Smoulder and Rimefire. Now, after that I'd be critting with other arcane spells as well as Icy Terrain ticks so Smoulder will be refreshed and won't ever fall off (as well as Rimefire than can then in addition to IT be refreshed by CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud), so then the only way I'd not get double Swath debuff or prevent it from stacking is if I hit with CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud a target that hasn't been affected by IT to stack Smoulder and Rimefire first. So unless a target hit by CoI runs around and apply Chill to other target that haven't been debuffed and converts Smoulder to Rimefire without stacking it, I'm basically getting 40% Swath debuff all the time.
Is that right or I'm missing something here?
If I'm reading your question right (bit of a text wall, sorry) then yes. However, to do that you need to drop the combustive action debuff, which is stronger than a second swath and also gets you the extra ap gain on kill.
Double stacking has only seemed worthwhile to me for bosses, where you can use one of the other methods and where the enemy will live long enough for the extra debuffs to actually matter.
Is double Swath really worth more on bosses than trash? On bosses it's easier for all classes to apply their debuffs than on trash. I really like to run CC+SoD for trash on MoF Rene loadout with DPS gear (100% crit, dps companions, Lightning).
I just think that you can apply 4% more debuff with combustive action while getting the extra AP back from killing enemies and have the same dps. You could also try double stacking in that setup, but in a solid group by the time you get a double stack going most things will probably already be dead.
The only place I see CC being useful is in a dedicated dps build where you don't want to waste time applying smolder manually.
Then again its been quite a while since I've been MoF, so my theory may not work as planned in real gameplay.
I've been running MoF Rene on the same gear and boons I use on SS Thaum, using CC+SoD (trash)/CP+SoD (single target) and with more focus on damage (100% crit, max INT with Owlbear belt and Company neck so my AP gain took a hit, maxed Learned Spelcaster and Focused Wizardry plus Phantasmal Destruction for extra crit sev) and it's been working out pretty well no matter if running in strong group with DPS at similar IL or lower level people since my damage output is still really high this way, not far behind similarly geared DPS classes, while still providing debuff from RoE and Swath, and with CC on trash, using IT then allows for easy additional 20% from double Swath vs 24% from CA.
What I have in mind is that with 100% crit, CC and IT any damage dealt (IT/CoI/ST/RoE/Dis) will apply Swath immediatelly and if mobs get hit or go into IT they'll get double Swath debuff, which can work quite nice when mobs are coming from different angles like in SVA. The only downside is if there's another CW and his Chill stacks messing up double Swath.
I realize it's probably not the usual way of playing MoF Rene, but so far it's been a blast for me to play like that and I really like it. Even with just RoE, single Swath, Chaos Magic, Abyss of Chaos and free Combat Advantage runs go really smooth.
I tried going back to Renegade/Oppressor stacking power/recovery, but I don't feel it anymore plus it makes impossible to quickly go back to DPS loadout on SS Thaum.
But I'm thinking about messing a bit with Rene/Thaum and dropping some damage from INT, Focused Wizardry, Learned Spellcaster and a little bit crit for extra recovery and AP gain from WIS, Rubellite set, artifacts (Black, Blue and Red Heart of Dragon) and few boons and heroic feats (Controlling Action, Fight On) and then run on it with CA+SoD.
Comments
Once mod 12 hits, will you still be recommending ROE for single target rotation in a heavy debuff party, or something like icy rays?
Thanks. Would you say the same about the Sellsword?
I have tried the Dread Warrior...but he is so damn slow. He is probably better on boss fights than trash.
In a vacuum with no feats and such, bilethorn appears to crit WAY more than in an actual dungeon (crit flag or some other reason). Additionally, if you only had 75% crit sev when testing bilethorn, it would test better than it actually would be
If there is another CW in party already using RoE on boss fight, should I still also use RoE (usual rotation CoI on tab, IT, Dis, RoE) or would it be better to switch to something else for more damage?
For the Holy avenger I did 6,521,000
For bilethorn I did 5,418,000 damage
The reason I say half assed, it was only 1 minute (I kept messing up the timer, everyone was losing patience lol) and I screwed up my rotation on the Bilethorn briefly. I doubt I lost 1.1m damage from that rotation screw up. Also, didnt think about this till it was too late, but I was using mirage weapons, so potentially I had unwanted combat advantage at some point. Anyone with more patient friends want to try this for a longer duration?
Some of Sharp's first words are amongst the lines of "you will not find any builds in this guide".
Speaking of Sharpie...where has he been hiding?
Have you driven him into a snark free zone?
Not sure if it's snark free, but Sharp is getting a well earned vacation there.
I know I am probably just nitpicking words from a tooltip that is imprecise but I just want to check:
Frigid Winds says "Foes who have been frozen..."
When I read this, my interpretation is that upon being frozen there is a debuff that applies to them for X seconds, even if they become unfrozen. Is this the case or does the debuff apply strictly for the number of seconds that they remain frozen?
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
The mad scientist's path of (near permanent?) exile has resulted in him putting out incorrect information for Lightning on single target (not that it matters too much).
Sharp claims that in his list of J value procs that the Lightning burst is worth 10.56% of weapon damage, or, if you're using the preview fixed damage weapon, it should appear as 105.6.
This is false, it should be 0.0825% of weapon damage, or 82.5 on fixed damage weapons just like most classes.
Here's my test parameters.
Character:
Rounded ACT version:
Exact ACT Log
If you can't read it, the exact burst damage was 89.925.
My character had 19 INT at the time of testing (after calculating, my CW took a -1 INT penalty from Sharp failure), so the damage was being multiplied by 1.09. If we take the damage of the burst and divide it by 1.09...
89.925/1.09 =82.5
Just as predicted.
So, Sharp needs to change his burst values from 105.6 down to 82.5 to actually be accurate.
Now, whether he actually updates for Mod12 is a different story...
--
Oh, and Sharp, this time, you don't have the excuse of lacking fixed damage weapons. You have nobody to blame but yourself (*cues Bethel and the 50 Shades of Blame crew*).
Although he did tell me that there was some point where that "was" the value of the burst... just not the Mod12 value.
drink a potion that adds crit severity / wildstorm elixir
drink a potion of heroism / fate
get a mount that adds +2000 / 4000 crit
get the guild food buff that adds more +200-1000 crit ...
get the ion stone that adds +10% crit when you are below 50% health (does not need to be your main companion )
there are many ways to sneak in more crit i can probably think of 10 more ,,
lucky coin/ has a random buff of crit etc
The part about stacking Smoulder and Rimefire for double Swath debuff by critting with Icy Terrain when using Critical Conflagration. So in that case by having 100% crit chance, using CC+SoD, not running Icy Veins and assuming there is no other CW in group who could mess up stacking with his Chill, if I use IT after bondings proc and as the first power that applies Chill, I'm just making sure all the mobs that got hit with it will be debuffed by 40% from Swath with both Smoulder and Rimefire. Now, after that I'd be critting with other arcane spells as well as Icy Terrain ticks so Smoulder will be refreshed and won't ever fall off (as well as Rimefire than can then in addition to IT be refreshed by CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud), so then the only way I'd not get double Swath debuff or prevent it from stacking is if I hit with CoI on mastery or Chilling Cloud a target that hasn't been affected by IT to stack Smoulder and Rimefire first. So unless a target hit by CoI runs around and apply Chill to other target that haven't been debuffed and converts Smoulder to Rimefire without stacking it, I'm basically getting 40% Swath debuff all the time.
Is that right or I'm missing something here?
Double stacking has only seemed worthwhile to me for bosses, where you can use one of the other methods and where the enemy will live long enough for the extra debuffs to actually matter.
The only place I see CC being useful is in a dedicated dps build where you don't want to waste time applying smolder manually.
Then again its been quite a while since I've been MoF, so my theory may not work as planned in real gameplay.
What I have in mind is that with 100% crit, CC and IT any damage dealt (IT/CoI/ST/RoE/Dis) will apply Swath immediatelly and if mobs get hit or go into IT they'll get double Swath debuff, which can work quite nice when mobs are coming from different angles like in SVA. The only downside is if there's another CW and his Chill stacks messing up double Swath.
I realize it's probably not the usual way of playing MoF Rene, but so far it's been a blast for me to play like that and I really like it. Even with just RoE, single Swath, Chaos Magic, Abyss of Chaos and free Combat Advantage runs go really smooth.
I tried going back to Renegade/Oppressor stacking power/recovery, but I don't feel it anymore plus it makes impossible to quickly go back to DPS loadout on SS Thaum.
But I'm thinking about messing a bit with Rene/Thaum and dropping some damage from INT, Focused Wizardry, Learned Spellcaster and a little bit crit for extra recovery and AP gain from WIS, Rubellite set, artifacts (Black, Blue and Red Heart of Dragon) and few boons and heroic feats (Controlling Action, Fight On) and then run on it with CA+SoD.
edit* nevermind, I found Mystik's build on Youtube.