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Official Feedback Thread: Tomb of the Nine Gods
asterdahl
Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer › Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
Greetings adventurers, this thread is for providing bug reports and feedback on the following topic:
If you are providing feedback about difficulty, please tell us a little about your character and your party, the more information the better, but at the very least your class, paragon path, feat tree and item level would be appreciated, thank you!
Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one)
If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use CYAN. If you are replying to another user's post, or just engaging in general discussion, please do not color your posts, general discussion is welcome and we will read all of it, regardless of color! You can use BBCode to color your text:
Examples:
Bug: My group was in the middle of a trap and suddenly we couldn't interact with the objects anymore, and it stopped us from progressing!
Feedback: We destroyed the first boss, our group was in the 13k-14k range, GF,DC,DC,GWF,CW. I was playing an MoF CW and barely ever felt like I was in danger.
Thank you for taking the time to check out the preview build, and thank you for taking the time to hop on the forums and give us your feedback.
- Tomb of the Nine Gods
If you are providing feedback about difficulty, please tell us a little about your character and your party, the more information the better, but at the very least your class, paragon path, feat tree and item level would be appreciated, thank you!
Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one)
If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use CYAN. If you are replying to another user's post, or just engaging in general discussion, please do not color your posts, general discussion is welcome and we will read all of it, regardless of color! You can use BBCode to color your text:
<font color=cyan>This text will display in cyan.</font>
<font color=red>This text will display in red.</font>Examples:
Bug: My group was in the middle of a trap and suddenly we couldn't interact with the objects anymore, and it stopped us from progressing!
Feedback: We destroyed the first boss, our group was in the 13k-14k range, GF,DC,DC,GWF,CW. I was playing an MoF CW and barely ever felt like I was in danger.
Thank you for taking the time to check out the preview build, and thank you for taking the time to hop on the forums and give us your feedback.
2
Comments
However, when I saw the first boss, this changed. Orcus, even though he learned new tricks does in no way fit into the dungeon, or for that matter into the chult theme. We already had such a letdown when the once grand CN was gutted and filled with demons. If there is still any chance to change it, remove Orcus! He has no place in that dungeon. Come up with something that fits the theme of mod12. While we are at it: Why the heck are Thayans in Soshenstar River? Thay is far, far away, and they don't fit the theme either
Bug:Some of the control powers of the mobs in ToNG, charm for example ignore the CC-immunity of GF's "Villain's Menace". My reluctance to post at this forum prevented me from posting this earlier, since it is only a nuisance in Soshenstar River, but in the new dungeon, it is infuriating! I have heard that GWFs have the same trouble with unstoppable.
Bug:Since module 6 "Steel Defense" doesn't work correctly, and in end-game dungeons like ToNG this is once again a problem that exceeds my forum-reluctance-threshold (it's very hard to surmount it), so I post it here:
When triggering a daily while having steel defense slotted, the GF will not immediately become immune to damage, but will be vulnerable for a brief moment until the damage immunity kicks in. This has nothing to do with the animation-time of the daily, because you can still get killed even though your AP got taken. I don't buy explanations like "Oh, this is just because of your ping, the signal needs some time to travel". Either I got killed before the daily got activated and I keep my AP, or I am immune to damage and my AP got spent, but getting killed AND losing my AP is unacceptable.
The impact of this Bug was very visible in mod6 when mobs where one-shoting all over the place. I died countless times due to the failure of steel defense kicking in. This has been going on for six Modules, and needs to get fixed.
Bug:The debuffs one acquires from activating the gate for the first boss can be circumvented: during the 5 seconds that the party needs to stay in the purple circle to enter the boss room, a player with a debuff simply kills himself via gm-help, respawns (without the debuff) and joines the party in the circle again. Not a single party member has to enter the bossfight with one of the debuffs.
Maybe I am missing something here, and the usefull effects of these strange debuffs are actually vital in the bossfight (I was only with 1 other player at Orcus and we didn't kill Orcus). But if that is not the case, many players will simply get rid of the debuff as described. The somewhat decent players will just ignore the debuff though because they don't care, others will not want to lose their normal buffs which can get canceled by death.
edit: clarification and fixing typos
Both bosses two and three are brand new to the Tomb of the Nine Gods, so now that it's possible to unlock the dungeon without finishing the campaign, please try to progress further if possible. There are some exciting new mechanics we'd like you to see.
In regards to why there are Thayans in Soshenstar, people have this pesky habit of traveling from place to place! There is a specific reason the Thayans have an interest in Chult and have traveled all that way, please look forward to discovering why as you play through the story ahead. Although the curses have negative effects, their boons are integral to the fight itself. That said, thank you for the report, we'll look into making adjustments. Although you may be able to survive without certain curses for a time, the lack of one curse in particular will make the fight nearly impossible once the relevant mechanic activates.
Team was @flensburger99 (AC DC), @greyjay1 (Tankadin), @wickedduck22#9795 (GWF), @cobrakillerrr (DO DC), and me (Conqueror GF). Team had a 14,000 average gearscore.
EDIT: Just ran another run on preview, figured this one out.
Bug(?): Soulmonger Charge Bar
The Soulmonger charge meter appears from the beginning of the dungeon, despite the fact that the mechanic only appears at the very end.
Unless your intention was to confuse players (which is in theme for this dungeon), I'd assume the bar was only supposed to appear for boss 3, so it appearing from the outset seems to be a programming goof on your part.
Bug: Unable to Open End Chests
I had died when our GWF finished off boss 3 (tilt attack). When I used the floating disk to return to the ziggurat, I was unable to open the chests. My copy character had a 7 Legendary Dragon keys, 100+ normal dungeon keys, and a a bag's worth of free inventory space.
Not sure why this occured, as nobody else in my team had this issue.
Feedback
Mood/Environment
I've never played pen & paper DnD, so I can't really compare the experience to that.
But this dungeon was quite an interesting ride and I like the emphasis on logic and figuring stuff out.
For example, our team did the puzzle with the potions and holograms and I really liked how we had to work as a team and coordinate on how to disarm the trap.
I also really like the environment and mood set by the dungeon traps and enemies. I was actually getting somewhat paranoid that there were more trap and I was keeping my shield pointed at walls in case there would be a trap when we opened one of those revolving doors.
Boss 1:
This was our longest boss fight. I took the TempHP curse, our GWF took the DPS curse, and I don't know who took the last curse.
I really liked the idea of the curses and the fact that you needed to read the tomes (or check the debuff tooltip) on what they did. However, I felt there was mis-step in figuring what you needed to use them for.
We checked the tomes, but other than the explanation of what you needed to do with them. We also had no clue on what to do with the green ball tethers.
We might have missed a dialogue/text box that the boss had said during the fight, but the indication as to what you need to do with the curses seems to be super unclear.
Puzzles:
I'm not sure if there's more puzzles, but our team only encountered the lever puzzle with all the objects and the potion/hologram puzzle.
I really liked these parts, especially the parts where the characters in the party spoke about what we needed to do, it gives me a sense that I was in an adventuring party.
One pet peeve of mine is that the instructions seem to come out of nowhere. How do the characters in-universe know what to do to solve the puzzle if the player can't see anything which gives any hints? Do the characters have some magic "detect solve puzzles" skill or something?
I also think that there should be bigger penalty for failing the puzzles, since all it seems to do is just make you waste time (we screwed up the lever puzzle and all it made us do was move out rubble, which is nowhere near the "oh **** we need to solve the puzzle or we all die" feeling that you wanted the puzzles to invoke).
Boss 2:
Our team team walked in and did our usual DPS thing without bothering to survey the arena or look around. Apart from the giant hands of doom, we didn't have many worries and we simply burned the boss down. We actually were wondering if we had just faced off against boss 2, since it felt no more difficult than the usual Tier2 dungeon boss in terms of length.
Was boss2 supposed to be that easy, or did we somehow auto-trigger the mechanics to make it super easy?
If you want further details, we didn't do much besides attack the tower and dodge the hand. We also had one of the best GWFs on PC in our team, which probably meant we were able to skip things by raw DPS alone. I compared our progress to a livestream team and the livestream team was struggling a lot more than we did (and they didn't quite have the same melt speed as we did).
But I'm not sure as to why there was a huge difference in clear speed if the team composition, power use, and coordination was similar between our team and the livestream team.
Boss 3
I think this boss is pretty "fair" in that you do his mechanics or die. Although, there were some things that didn't make sense to me.
I personally have no clue as to what you're supposed to do for his attack when he says "you will die where you stand". Are we supposed to move around? Are we supposed to kill the defiant souls? The text/things happening around the arena weren't really clear as to what we needed to do.
Is there any way we're supposed to clear the damage resistance shredding? It pretty much makes for a game where you need to kill the boss quickly, otherwise everyone just gets oneshotted by basic attacks.
If you have the chance please make the boss spout hand/pit/tilting puns. Cheesy, but I think the awful puns fit with the general smug and cocky attitude the bosses have in the dungeon.
And I think the awful puns would be great in distracting players from the real threat: enemy attacks.
Loot
I wasn't able to check the end chest thanks to the after mentioned bug. From what I gleaned from my teammates... the loot sucks.
Look, if we're going to beat the hardest dungeon in the game, I would love it if the rewards were not on par with the easier FBI or eSP, except themed to Mod12.
Our Paladin got an R8, 2 R5s, some protectors seals, Seals of the Brave, some random Huntsman Drops, and campaign currency.
Our AC DC got some R5s, some Protector/Brave Seals, some huntsman stuff, and the campaign currency.
I was conversing with @tom#6998 after his team finished the dungeon, and he only got some random Huntsman pieces, some R5s, campaign currency, Seals of the Protector/Brave, and a BoA Emblem of the Seldarine.
If this is an indication of the average loot, then the only real pramatic reason to run this dungeon would be for the fun of it and for the Primal Gear.
The former is a non issue, but the issue with the latter is that if you can beat this dungeon ... you've proven you don't need the Primal Gear. Which makes coming to the dungeon looking for loot pointless, when you can go to the much easier FBI/SP and get the same loot, but in 1/3rd the time.
If I could rework the loot, I would either increase the quality of the loot or make the loot drops more consistent. An example I would do is change the R8 Radiant/Azure/Silvery drops to R8 Brutal/Cruel/Black Ice drops, since the multi-stat enchants are rare to level up and are quite expensive, so winning those from the dungeon would be worth a bit of money/have uses in gearing up other characters
Overall:
I like the emphasis on teamwork and logic. Although the dungeon was hard, I think that's because most of the team was wondering on what was going on, and once we figure out what we're supposed to be doing, we would likely have an easier time. I believe this is in line with the original Tomb of Horrors, which was incredibly difficult if you didn't know what to expect.
I personally think the minumum gearscore requirements are a bit low. I don't think this dungeon is going to be winnable for the first time average 12k team with a composition of 1 tank/3 DPS/1 healer. Even for a team of experienced 12k players,.
And please: MAKE THE LOOT BETTER. There's very little tangible reason to run this dungeon with the high difficulty and low reward.
We just attempted a dungeon run and here are my thoughts:
1. Traps -- I second the thought that there should be a more compelling reason to solve the puzzles. Maybe a loot incentive? We failed them all and simply cut our way through the trash mobs that we had to deal with as a consequence. I foresee a lot of teams opting to just do that the way it stands now.
2. First boss. The effects of the curses were easy to understand, but what to do with wasn't. The only obvious one is the middle one which turns you into an uber zombie killer. Other than that, we were at a loss as to how to deal with the tethered spheres. On our third try for some reason there seemed to be less spheres but we had no idea why. Is it an aggro thing? A zombie thing? We couldn't tell. For my part, my HR has massive damage resistance (128% without my guild boons) so I simply pulled as many zombies as I could to a far corner and killed them over time. From that far away, Orcus was no threat to me as long as the tanks and GWFs stayed alive. I didn't even have the "zombie killer" curse; I had the one with the temp HP. Nevertheless, my Drowned weapon set (which I'll never, EVER give up) served me well.
3. Second boss. Our first try was a short-lived disaster, but the second try was ridiculously easy -- so easy that we were concerned that it bugged or something. Someone made a good call on the four dwarves in the corners, and once they were down it was a very easy and short DPS burn. Intended? I got up on a high vantage point and attacked ranged so I could see if the dwarves -- or something else -- respawned. I'm surprised that nothing did.
4. Third boss. We could only barely scratch him, but we only had three people left at that point (GF, GWF, HR). Lag made fighting pretty much impossible -- we were nuked by his huge AoE blasts before we could react. From my HR standpoint, I don't care for the fact that one mechanic forces you to hug him all the time, while another mechanic forces you to run away. Add in a tiny bit of lag and I see the fight becoming a huge pain in the posterior. My gut tells me that my oppressor CW might become popular again, but we didn't have one so I can only surmise.
5. Atmosphere. I like it -- a lot -- but something seems missing. I think an exotic location like that should have extra things you can discover: hidden lore, a side puzzle or two, maybe an optional miniboss, or maybe some esoteric loot items that you can only find there. The room with the chair seemed like a place where there should have been something special -- why was that stone chair put there in the first place, for instance? Try to think about the rooms like I do in the Foundry: everything built was put there for a reason.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
The mobs hit hard, and it`s was excpected i think Sharp can give you more detailed information about it or does it work as intended, but it is doable just gotta be prepared to be stunned, jumped and all that comes to it.
Also i gotta say the pit with the dino`s is very nasty if not played tactical but it was fun regardless.
Now we got some drops from the bosses itself dont about the guys and Michela but i got 2 same neck pieces BTC, why 2 and 2 same no idea.
The bosses itselfs are hard, but when you figure the mechanics ea Sharp did we burned them really fast.
Now only one thing, adjust the rewards, this is not a cake walk this is serious dungeon and geting a thaum stone and a rank5 is really insulting cmon guys.Also chests bug me out since i fell of the platform due to lag on the last boss and when i came back to the chamber i could not open any chest.
I wanna thank Sharpedge @tom#6998 Michaela and Gonzaid 6.0 for the run and patience.
Here are all 3 boss fights and burns
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I Dont like 2nd boss.
IS this a bug or something firsts 1-2 minutes of the fight are interesting but then you disable the elements and turn into something worse than orcus in castle never since that boss do not hit you.
Feedback: 1st boss.
I like the curse mechanic, although it should be better explained. The temp hp buff seems to be buggy in some ways and I am pretty sure sometimes the balls are still 1 shotting you while the temp HP is present.
Feedback: 2nd boss.
I don't like the 2nd boss, all you need is 1 person doing the mechanic for a guaranteed success.
Feedback: 3rd boss.
I like this boss, however the partial paralysis feels like you have added artificial lag to the boss fight. I feel like it should be less frequent then it currently is, as it can be altogether quite frustrating. It honestly feels like the most punishing part of this fight is partial paralysis.
Feedback: Iframeability.
I am under the impression that a lot of the boss attacks in this dungeon cannot be Iframed and that you actually have to be outside of the telegraphed area to avoid taking damage. I would like clarification on this, so I know whether it is just me playing poorly, bad lag, or if these attacks genuinely cannot be Iframed. Some examples:
Finger of Death (Orcus)
Deathwind (Orcus)
The red lines at the last boss (not sure of the name)
The rotating fire things at the 2nd boss.
However, Orcus's Sphere of Annihilation can be Iframed.
Feedback: Dungeon Difficulty.
Over all the new dungeon is quite challenging and pleasant to run, I thoroughly enjoy many of the new mechanics and I think the dungeon will pose a problem to many groups. There are still some parties that will be able to faceroll and ignore mechanics, but I think the number of groups that can do that has been drastically reduced relative to the current T3 dungeons.
Feedback: Loot.
Considering the difficulty of the dungeon (most groups will struggle) the loot is not adequate, at all. It needs to be unbound and it needs to be significantly better. Quite frankly, I feel like rank 9s or rank 10s better suit this dungeons drop table, not rank 5s and 8s. For a lot of classes, many of the new gear pieces that you can buy with seals of the brave are underwhelming and not even BiS, if the loot is not dramatically improved, I feel this dungeon won't see much gameplay, which would be a dramatic letdown considering it is a lot of fun.
Feedback: Estimated gameplay time.
I think a more accurate estimation would be 45 minutes to 1 hour.
Feedback: Environment.
The overall theme of the new dungeon, with the new puzzles etc, is really quite enjoyable and a nice change of pace compared to older content. However, the new dungeon is noticeably laggy, even on preview. This raises a major concern, since if it is noticeably laggy on preview, I dread to think what it would be like on live. I strongly urge you to try and look into this.
- Just before second boss, in cinematics when the Tyrannosaurus appers, it shows full party on the stairs. Full party of characters that look exactly like you.
- When your Damage dealt (Paingiver table) goes over 4 billion, you disappear from it.
IDK if it's been reported or not already.paingiver table
The Dungeon should have an average time of 50 minutes to 1 hour ,probably double if the group is not a premade. I really do like the new dungeon it has unique mechanics and needs good knowledge of the mechanics to finish it. The idea of traps had me off but I actually liked them. Back to topic a dungeon with a 40-50 minute length with a good group and getting a rank 5 with 2 salvage pieces and dropping bound loot will render the dungeon obsolete after everyone has enough seals. The reason why people run fbi is because it offers the best loot and can be done 2 times faster than tomb of the nine gods (probably 3x) but the loot makes me want to keep farming fbi even when it comes out. Changes should be made to the loot tables to match the length of the dungeon. Because fbi will still be the go to farm dungeon in mod 12 if loot changes are not made.
Rest assured that in a future build, the fight will become significantly more difficult at that point, not easier. You are correct, you may have noticed some skull beside the damage values for certain attacks. I will be addressing this in a future blog, but if you check the combat log will actually indicate that damage from these sources is "unavoidable." We have had a few unavoidable damage sources in the past, and as we'd like to continue using these for certain boss encounters, we've decided to officially make it a mechanic.
That's not to say you can't still move out of the indicator in time to avoid the effect, but immunity frames won't save you. For instance, Deathwind should encourage you to stay fairly close to Orcus where the distance to dodge out of the cone is reasonable. However, if that effect is avoidable with immunity frames, it's basically as if it wasn't there at all. Alternatively we had considered since Module 10 making any sort of effect we desired to be "unavoidable," a continual channeled effect, but this ultimately became to limiting.
Another thing I would like to bring up that I noticed in much older content (back in etos in mod 6) which wasn't really an issue in the past, but that may not be intended and could make the new dungeon harder than intended is the inability to dodge DoT effects as well as negative status effects. What I mean by this is if you dodge in a red area and the red area happens to apply a negative status effect, even if you dodge the initial damage, the DoT or negative status effect will still be applied. For example, in FBI at Hati, if you dodge the initial hit of the poison attack, the DoT will still be applied. Another example is at the final boss in the new dungeon, if you iframe some of the bosses attacks they will still apply the vulnerability debuff or partial paralysis. Is this a bug or intended?
I think/believe this could be some sort of bug or a problem of sorts with the companions where it seems they're under effect from those mobs abilities and it causes those who are bonding users to not have their procs/not lasting long because of the comps not getting a chance to keep up the procc. It's very inconsistent for at least half the dungeon from what I'm seeing. I know the recommended thing from some will be to just constantly resummon but it's pretty annoying for that. So I do believe this can fall under 'bug'.
Bug: Puzzles (Mimics)
When I ran this the third time, it seems that this weird thing happened where on the mimic puzzle, two mimics stack on the same block/square, making it a bit harder to actually see where that skull spirit thing lands.
Feedback: The dungeon on the whole
I've enjoy the dungeon a lot and even spending a lot of time after each run to explore it. A lot of good positives. I just personally don't like how the second boss is a bit too easy and as well, so I was curious as to what will happen if you don't disarm traps and well when in one of the runs a party member ran out the room to see what will happen, the room just simply caved in and we just needed to move the rubble alone. I think it should be something more punishing than just removing rubble from the door if you don't disarm traps/can figure out the puzzle.
That being said—in regards to Ras Nsi—the majority of his debuff inflicting attacks: Rive, Serpent's Rive and Stinging Halo are unavoidable damage. Meaning that immunity frames won't save you from the damage either, so even if we were to adjust immunity frames preventing status effects, it would not be adjusted for powers that are otherwise unavoidable. That being said, the "check" to determine whether or not you will be hit with the status effect happens when the power fires, not when the AoE indicator first appears. If you simply step out of the indicator in time, you will not be adversely affected.
In our own internal playtests (where we artificially set our ping to a reasonable level) our team was able to avoid the majority of the effects. However, it's definitely a new challenge to face. Avoiding Serpent's Rive can be quite difficult, however, once you learn the fight you should be able to anticipate the effect and ready yourself. You can still avoid the damage even if you haven't anticipated it, but you will need to dodge at an angle to ensure you do not overshoot the rather limited safe area.
We do understand that some groups may be geared enough to largely ignore these effects, but we hope plenty of you enjoy learning to master the fight. We will continue to watch the data and consider making adjustments.
2nd boss is too easy there is no mechanics, no danger, nothing it is boring as hell.
The platform leading to the final boss doesn't have anything to prevent you from jumping off the edge. You hit a killplane, which is fine, but when you respawn you appear at a campfire toward the beginning of the dungeon (at the first trap I think). It would be fine if you simply had to run through the dungeon to get back, but unfortunately you have to fight your way through many rooms where enemies have respawned (and if your party solved the first trap then those rooms will definitely be full of enemies). The net effect is that if someone accidentally goes off the edge, he will either have to be kicked or everyone else will have to follow because that player will otherwise not be able to return.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
That is not good, considering fbi loot isn't worth the time.
I don't get why you guys insist on making the end chest basically moot..and forcing people to run content repeatedly for stuff. The extremely limited number of armor sets seems to add to this problem. One single set at each level....ugh.
The reason is there are classes with powers based their builds on toggle skills. IF for example a sw cast dreadtheft will get interupt on this power and it will go on cooldown, And every new attempt will have the same result -1 power .
Also if i am a tank and my team need to get the monsters away from them and at this time we get a paralysis the party will die. Wipe should happen when players do a mistake not based on luck ( paralysis every 2seconds).
And about loot make everything bind of equip armors-rings. You wil bring more poeple in dungeon than you can imagine. I Would pay to get 100 legendaries keys if i knew that everything in chest is bind of equip. IT takes for me 50 minutes per day ( i even can skip and 1-2 days) and i will make better income from leadership and just 1 invoke per character.
Overall design is very nice, and I love that there's been some effort put in to create a unique new dungeon.
The boss fights are interesting and engaging, though I'm not sure if it's even possible to avoid one of the final boss' attacks. When he covers the entire arena in red except for 3 small strips it seems to be impossible to avoid as the strips are too small for a player to stand on, as far as I can tell I was never able to avoid that attack even when I sat in the middle strip.
Puzzles are interesting but some of them need a little more explanation. We ran into one with some levers and pedestals and had no idea what we were supposed to do with them, then someone accidentally left the room and we learned there was a penalty for not doing a puzzle, so we never got the chance to try it properly.
Loot: overall the loot is quite disappointing, like spellplague caverns the rewards from the dungeon are far too low considering the bar for entry and the length of time it takes to complete. I find it particularly offensive that the end chests can still give rank 5 enchantments, when dungeons like castle Never can reward rank 8s. The armor drops from the end chest also offered no option to choose between the 2 varieties, I think that would be a nice QOL option to add, in line with how the armour piece selection works in lower tier dungeons.
Finally, it was disappointing to see that seals of the Brave only come from the final chests. This effectively means that if you run the dungeon with your 7 keys a week from the campaign, plus your epic chest keys, you won't be able to reach the weekly limit on seals. It would be nice to see the bosses also drop a small number of seals so that between the 2 sources you can reach the weekly limit without being pressured into paying for legendary dragon keys, or having to run the dungeon multiple times with only an epic dungeon key.
The curses from the first boss fight will sometimes expire without the player dying. We had a couple of attempts at the first boss where I lost the temp HP curse betfore we even entered the fight, which effectively made the fight impossible to complete.