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Overflow bag changes, thumbs down

minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,136Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
edited May 2017 in Player Feedback (PC)
This seems a really petty change to try to sell more bags. I was in SH, wanting to cash in quests then donate to the coffer, nope, stuff in overflow, couldn't complete the quests, trips to the coffer and back to the questgivers and back to the coffer later I'm swearing a lot. You are sucking QoL out of the game. I have no idea what else has changed, were you too scared to actually itemise the changes in the patch notes because of the possible reaction ?
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Comments

  • reg1981reg1981 Posts: 843Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    The overflow bag is not meant to hold stuff, it's there to catch a reward or quest item so you don't miss out. Sure this will require people to buy bags or liquidate items but if someone is using the overflow bag as a ... well bag, then they needed to make that investment ages ago!
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Posts: 14,231Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I am a little concerned that these changes are going to pose an impediment when opening Leadership boxes, which is the one time that I tend to have a lot of stuff in overflow temporarily. From the sounds of things, posting items to the AH is prohibited while items are in overflow, which is one of the ways I'd clear enough bag space to get things sorted out into long-term storage and whatnot. 2xGems always was bag management hell, but might be a lot worse now.

    It's already such a hindrance to have even one item in overflow (can't invoke, can't open HE rewards) that I don't keep anything there.

    Another recent issue specific to bag management is loadouts requiring your situational gear to reside in your bags, not your bank. That has potential ramifications for more stuff ending up in overflow even if you'd rather it didn't.
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  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Posts: 3,748Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I guess leadership enchanted coffers will turn the game into a survival horror.
  • litaaerslitaaers Posts: 870Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Hyperbole much?
  • eltacogrande#4535 eltacogrande Posts: 20Member Arc User
    There is a simple solution to this , which I saw in another game I used to play which also relied heavily on rmts was also f2p and it was to send what ever you couldn't carry directly to your inbox with a 7 day limit or else it just was destroyed/lost. The game similar to this game also sold storage slots but gave the players more freedom in making that choice , rather then have it hammered home everyday with bag full reminders and this new overflow policy.
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Posts: 849Member Arc User
    ghoulz66 said:

    I guess leadership enchanted coffers will turn the game into a survival horror.

    Thus they should be acc bound so we can open them on the char we WANT to have the rewards.
    All this clicking makes me dizzy.

    I suggested to make them acc bound - transferred via shared bank a long time ago. Still waiting.

    And please do not tell me it's hard to implement, just...don't @nitocris83
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Posts: 14,231Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Soooooo... does this change mean you can't even turn in a quest because the items you need to turn in are in your overflow bag?
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  • loboguildloboguild Posts: 2,371Member Arc User
    I predicted on the preview thread that this will cause a bit of heat. The devs simply do not incorporate such changes in a smart way. Bag space is an ongoing concern and every minor step back, even if it's only overflow, will blow up right in their face. It's no surprise and in a way happens rightfully so, because they really should present a better overall solution for the system before further nerfing anything.

    The impact on most players is slim, but there are some real downsides for certain situations / play styles. Plus I'm pretty sure besides "lag" they didn't actually dislike the fact that it passively contributes to bag sales.​​
  • nameexpirednameexpired Posts: 1,282Member Arc User
    edited May 2017
    I would immediately buy lots of runic bags if I could use them.
    The limit of 6 active bags is to low for many players.

    The inventory management/forced character switches did not really improve my playing experience.
    (Owner of 16 runic bags and 8 GBoH, max. shared bank etc.)

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  • litaaerslitaaers Posts: 870Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    loboguild said:

    I predicted on the preview thread that this will cause a bit of heat. The devs simply do not incorporate such changes in a smart way. Bag space is an ongoing concern and every minor step back, even if it's only overflow, will blow up right in their face. It's no surprise and in a way happens rightfully so, because they really should present a better overall solution for the system before further nerfing anything.



    The impact on most players is slim, but there are some real downsides for certain situations / play styles. Plus I'm pretty sure besides "lag" they didn't actually dislike the fact that it passively contributes to bag sales.​​

    They implemented this so players wouldn't lose anything if they were on-the-spot with their inventory.
    Players, as players will do, abuse the gift horse.
    They reign it back in, and *they* are terrible, money grubbing HAMSTER.

    Please pass the tin foil when you are through with it.

  • litaaerslitaaers Posts: 870Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    I would immediately buy lots of runic bags if I could use them.
    The limit of 6 active bags is to low for many players.

    The inventory management/forced character switches did not really improve my playing experience.
    (Owner of 16 runic bags and 8 GBoH, max. shared bank etc.)


    If they let people carry as much as they wanted, some loser could enter a map and black hole everyone. Ok, maybe not with todays machines, but it just has no upside for the game, only the individual (who, btw, is likely an ungrateful sot). imho.
  • loboguildloboguild Posts: 2,371Member Arc User
    @litaaers I think the issue is a bit more complex than players = exploit = bad. I know some that relied on the overflow bag in certain situations for different reasons. Those now see one more QoL taken away. I think the number of those that relied on the overflow because the underlying system (bag space) is just crappy is way higher than the number of those that flat out exploited it. Can kinda compare it to Keygate where players learned to decline chests because the loot was incredibly bad.

    It's not even a super bad change, but the reaction was predictable. @terramak or someone else recently noted they have some long-term plans for the inventory. Should just have made this change alongside whatever they plan and would have experienced way less backlash is all I'm saying. I don't think the server was close to breaking because of overflow data.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,794Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Ya, no bank, no mail and no quest turn-ins for having overflow is not the way the game is designed. So, this is going to cause many headaches. The game is designed so that when we get overflow, we can put stuff in the bank or mail. This change breaks the game, especially for new and f2p players.

    Wait! Are you saying when it has overflow, you cannot even move stuff to the bank to open up some space in the inventory? If so, where can the stuff go?
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Posts: 14,231Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Weird idiom anyway. The gift horse is an old nag with bad teeth, but you're supposed to be grateful and not look at it too closely because, after all, it was free.
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  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Posts: 519Member Arc User
    This is just so funny. Seems like these days, no matter what happens - people moan. Seriously? This is such a big problem for you? This is a fantasy mmo game, not a "gather things" game or some market simulator. Everything is a problem now.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Posts: 14,231Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    not a "gather things" game

    100-odd types of refinement items (every time I've calculated how many, they've added more)
    Armor, more armor than just what you're wearing if you're using the loadouts feature to the fullest
    Potions and kits, a few spaces if you're very conservative, many spaces if you're a loot vacumn cleaner type
    ID scrolls, likely bound and unbound if you're VIP
    Reclaimed resources, 3 slots worth
    Quest items... sometimes quest items that don't even stack on each other, or don't stack high enough to fulfill the requirements of the quest with a single inventory slot

    Only a few of those items can you decide to just not carry or pickup by not engaging with activities that use them, like looting skill nodes or identifying gear. But choosing to engage or not with those activities should be determined by whether or not you want to, not by whether or not you can afford the space for their supporting tat.

    The only way of playing NW without gathering things, imo, is to be one of the players for whom PE zone chat is their endgame.
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  • qexoticqexotic Posts: 837Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited May 2017
    One big problem with this latest change is the timing of when they have chosen to introduce it. With a 2xRP event a little over three weeks away people are already starting to stock up on RP items, combine that with a 2xEnchants and Runestones weekend and then throw in the extra space required to handle the extra drops from the Siege Event (including SH vouchers and Siege Supplies neither of which can just be used straight away to make inventory space) and Cryptic could not have picked a worse time to bring in a truly irritating new QoL damaging feature.

    The worst part is...they clearly did put a lot of thought into doing it and decided that this was the perfect time to implement the change... which speaks volumes
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Posts: 1,788Member Arc User
    They needed to address the inventory problems first, then implement this. Inventory problems such as: Quest items going to inventory, not the Useful items tab. Daily items (RD items), going to the regular tab instead of Useful items. RP items having 3 bind states, possibly more (because some of the same type don't stack), and having 150+ types of it. 2x events still being a thing, which means most people will horde stuff (they just need to go away honestly). VB items that require bag space, vouchers that require bag space, invoke rewards not stacking at all (really bad btw) etc etc etc etc.

    I still don't believe people having hundreds of items in an overflow bag would cause problems - why is this bag seen any differently than a normal bag with inventory? Pretty sure there was a limit on overflow...if there wasn't, then I could see this change.

    Still, this is a minor version of the key change debacle all over again. Make a bad change when better options exist.

    Anyways, I don't use overflow so not a huge deal to me.
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  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,794Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited May 2017


    I still don't believe people having hundreds of items in an overflow bag would cause problems - why is this bag seen any differently than a normal bag with inventory? Pretty sure there was a limit on overflow...if there wasn't, then I could see this change.

    There was a limit (I think it was about 120 items). Then, a while ago before 2 2xEnchant ago, there was no limit or the limit is so big that I could not reach it. I opened about 700 enchanted coffer at that time and I was not stopped by the overflow limit.
  • dupeksdupeks Posts: 1,774Member Arc User
    I think Becky nailed it: the problem is going to become noticeable for me when I start opening boxes for 2x enchants.

    And then what is the expected recourse: Let's say I get myself into a situation where I have tons of r6 r7 enchants in my overflow bag (thanks QM). What is the recommended way I free up room to let them move to my bags?

    Or is the idea here that letting your items into overflow should come with a penalty (i.e. you are expected to then have to discard otherwise valuable items for our folly)?
  • litaaerslitaaers Posts: 870Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited May 2017
    qexotic said:

    One big problem with this latest change is the timing of when they have chosen to introduce it. With a 2xRP event a little over three weeks away people are already starting to stock up on RP items, combine that with a 2xEnchants and Runestones weekend and then throw in the extra space required to handle the extra drops from the Siege Event (including SH vouchers and Siege Supplies neither of which can just be used straight away to make inventory space) and Cryptic could not have picked a worse time to bring in a truly irritating new QoL damaging feature.

    The worst part is...they clearly did put a lot of thought into doing it and decided that this was the perfect time to implement the change... which speaks volumes

    There would be no good time, for some people.
    Immediately after 2xRP: 'How can I stock up on all the cheap enchants people want to get rid of?'
    3 weeks before 2xRP: 'I'm already stocking up on cheap enchants....'
    During 2xRP: 'Why are CWards so expensive?' <<< en passant

    If they had never implemented this, you would just have limited bag space, and if you couldn't pick it up, too bad. This gave people some wiggle room. Some people wiggled it into a full fledged 30 space bag, and that's why we can't have nice things.


    @micky1p00 Bag space issues and this overflow issue are two different things. Yes, the system needs work. No, this isn't HAMSTERing on you and calling it rain. For all we know, this is the first step towards fixing it.

    "people who blame the players and/or yelling "Everything is great" when it's obvious to everyone"

    No one is saying everything is great. I am blaming *some* players for abusing a backup system. You exaggerate, but I have come to expect it.

    I could say the same about the kajillions of posters who jump on EVERY change (that isn't a Legendary freebie), and call it a HAMSTER parade.
  • qexoticqexotic Posts: 837Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    litaaers said:

    qexotic said:

    One big problem with this latest change is the timing of when they have chosen to introduce it. With a 2xRP event a little over three weeks away people are already starting to stock up on RP items, combine that with a 2xEnchants and Runestones weekend and then throw in the extra space required to handle the extra drops from the Siege Event (including SH vouchers and Siege Supplies neither of which can just be used straight away to make inventory space) and Cryptic could not have picked a worse time to bring in a truly irritating new QoL damaging feature.

    The worst part is...they clearly did put a lot of thought into doing it and decided that this was the perfect time to implement the change... which speaks volumes

    There would be no good time, for some people.
    Immediately after 2xRP: 'How can I stock up on all the cheap enchants people want to get rid of?'
    3 weeks before 2xRP: 'I'm already stocking up on cheap enchants....'
    During 2xRP: 'Why are CWards so expensive?'
    I agree that there would be no good time to implement this change but my point was that they deliberately picked the worst possible time to put it in place.

  • qexoticqexotic Posts: 837Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    P.S. I stumbled across another place where the changes can be irritating. I put together an IG Bronze Only Fleece run with a target of doing 5 runs. After three, we had to stop because one of the party had accumulated more than 10 items in his overflow slots just from doing the skirmish. Until he reduced the number, he wasn't allowed to queue.
  • litaaerslitaaers Posts: 870Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    qexotic said:

    P.S. I stumbled across another place where the changes can be irritating. I put together an IG Bronze Only Fleece run with a target of doing 5 runs. After three, we had to stop because one of the party had accumulated more than 10 items in his overflow slots just from doing the skirmish. Until he reduced the number, he wasn't allowed to queue.

    No doubt irritating, but when you queue for things, knowing this is in effect, you don't carry your lunch, too.

    What it boils down to is, don't use your bags as permanent storage. I understand there are lots of items @beckylunatic , but that does not mean we need to keep each and every one. Fireworks are instant AD (small change, but AD nonetheless) because there will always be RP'ers and people who want to celebrate, be annoyances, etc. People just need to figure what they want to keep, and what the can buy when they need it.

    And should anyone say 'If they make it in game, I should be able to use it", I say yes, just not all at the same time.

  • litaaerslitaaers Posts: 870Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Most of us don't try to keep everything, nor do we want to. Every item the game jams into your bag demands that you do something with it, reproducing similar pressure on your time and attention as bringing physical items into your home does. The need to un(hamster) your habitat is real. Why should we reproduce everything we need to worry about in real life in our fantasy environment?

    Even if you immediately get rid of every piece of event garbage that you don't want, you just spent several minutes cleaning out your bags that you didn't technically have to do, because they were reasonably clean before, until you made the mistake of doing the event thing.

    I don't engage with events as much as I want to because even when they're fun, the inventory management isn't. I view that as a problem. Even if it's not a problem for you, it's a problem for me, and you dismissing my concerns is disrespectful.

    Well, thank God they don't take my (or your) PoV into account when they manage the game. Business 101 for the win.

    Seriously, this isn't access to the public library. This is entertainment. I have severe arthritis, and contorting my hands on the keyboard and mouse hurts. But if I want to play, I have to factor that in. When people ask for changes *they* want, they don't factor in what is good for *me*. And thats the way it *should* be.

    You can also think that my opinion is 'dismissive' and 'disrespectful', but that doesn't make it so. I have read enough of your posts to think you are not a snowflake, so I don't understand why you would fall back on the 'your opinion disrespects my views' thing. If you feel strongly about it, feel free to send me a PM. I can assure you, I reserve my disdain for my true enemies (like carnies, and people who stand children in front of store doors for 'fund drives').

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