Lostmauth's Vengeance changes

armadeonx · April 2016

The Control Wizard will take a huge hit on this. Following their previous nerf & the subsequent buff of the GWF, the CW is now almost useless.

Can I suggest you reverse the previous CW nerf so they will stand on a more equal footing with other DPS classes again?

armadeonx · April 2016

lirithiel said:

asterotg said:
Two things to comment on here.

Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?

Second thing is, that you should not 'fix' an effect, that contributed up to 40% of the dps of some classes and be done with it. Thats shortsighted, everything else I could say to discribe my opinion would be censored. Lets say my CW generated 40% of his dps from ELOL-set (I dont know, I dont use ATC). This is a 40% dmg nerf.

How about other classes. If the SW generates 10% from the set, he loses 10%. A good SW did 50%-100% more dmg than a similar geared CW, now its up to 200%, great balancing.

If GF and DC did not benefit from the set as much as CW, they might be better DDs, than the CW, with better group utility (buffs/ debuffs tank/heal).

I dont know, what exact effect this 'fix' will have, but I am sure, that this singular action will not balance anything.
Okay, firstly when you, as a CW, are using the Lostmauth set purely for its proc bonus, something is clearly wrong. Remind me again what a CWs main attributes are? Well I can tell you with all certainty it isn't DEX or STR, which guess what, the Lostmauth set provides. I will shed no tears for any class that has 'abused' this set over the mods and now has to replace it. This should have happened a long time ago and is a welcome change. No proc effect should be doing anywhere close to the damage Lostmauth set bonus did, maybe at most 10% of your total damage and that might even be too much.

Haha, abused!? The simple fact is that if a DPS character did not use it then they were next to pointless - they absolutely HAD to use it to be competitive!

Just because the belt gives DEX & STR does not mean it's not good for a CW - the PWR/CRIT/ARP, AP gain and set bonus more than make up for the lack of a couple of points in the right attributes.

What you should be looking at is why the available artifact and armor sets are terrible for CW's. When all bosses are immune to control - what place does a Control Wizard have in fighting them..?

Fair enough the set was OP but when the devs nerf then ignore an entire class you need to look at the reality of the situation, not point your finger and say "ha ha good!"

cambo1682 · April 2016

armadeonx said:
The Control Wizard will take a huge hit on this. Following their previous nerf & the subsequent buff of the GWF, the CW is now almost useless.

Can I suggest you reverse the previous CW nerf so they will stand on a more equal footing with other DPS classes again?

I'd take it even further. They nerfed singularity, they nerfed shard, they nerfed storm spell, they made almost every thing CC resistant where it matters. There was a time where CW's were considered the Illuminati of NW, but the nerf hammer just keeps driving those players away. If CW's will no longer be viable as damage dealers then think about a reversal of all the previous hits you've dealt them. Remove the cap on sing, bump up burst damage and make everything succeptible to control exept bosses. Personally I'd like to see Orcus spinning in the air too, but I doubt you'd grant that wish. Whatever you do, please don't take a year to do it in drips and drops. You should have that kind of plan in place before you ham handedly implement these massive nerfs, not after you've had a good old "we'll watch and see".

polaris1986 · April 2016

oh, why they nerf the set and make it useless like blackice set... instead to nerf classes multyprocs from this set.

Dear devs when you going to fix owlbear's cub bonus for DC??

thefabricant · April 2016

lirithiel said:

asterotg said:
Two things to comment on here.

Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?

Second thing is, that you should not 'fix' an effect, that contributed up to 40% of the dps of some classes and be done with it. Thats shortsighted, everything else I could say to discribe my opinion would be censored. Lets say my CW generated 40% of his dps from ELOL-set (I dont know, I dont use ATC). This is a 40% dmg nerf.

How about other classes. If the SW generates 10% from the set, he loses 10%. A good SW did 50%-100% more dmg than a similar geared CW, now its up to 200%, great balancing.

If GF and DC did not benefit from the set as much as CW, they might be better DDs, than the CW, with better group utility (buffs/ debuffs tank/heal).

I dont know, what exact effect this 'fix' will have, but I am sure, that this singular action will not balance anything.
Okay, firstly when you, as a CW, are using the Lostmauth set purely for its proc bonus, something is clearly wrong. Remind me again what a CWs main attributes are? Well I can tell you with all certainty it isn't DEX or STR, which guess what, the Lostmauth set provides. I will shed no tears for any class that has 'abused' this set over the mods and now has to replace it. This should have happened a long time ago and is a welcome change. No proc effect should be doing anywhere close to the damage Lostmauth set bonus did, maybe at most 10% of your total damage and that might even be too much.

This argument is stupid and always has been. If the elol set bonus had been on the valindra set instead of the elol set, you would have been arguing the same thing, only about GWFs and using a set with intelligence. Furthermore, the elol set still has the best stats for CW, I will STILL use it post nerf, irrespective of the poor attributes, because it still grants the biggest dps boost off the power/crit/arp alone.

You choose to play archery or combat and thus you choose to have low damage, trapper still deals damage. How would you like it if there was literally no viable dps choice? CW was defined by the elol set, GWF was enhanced by it.

lirithiel · April 2016

thefabricant said:

lirithiel said:

asterotg said:
Two things to comment on here.

Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?

Second thing is, that you should not 'fix' an effect, that contributed up to 40% of the dps of some classes and be done with it. Thats shortsighted, everything else I could say to discribe my opinion would be censored. Lets say my CW generated 40% of his dps from ELOL-set (I dont know, I dont use ATC). This is a 40% dmg nerf.

How about other classes. If the SW generates 10% from the set, he loses 10%. A good SW did 50%-100% more dmg than a similar geared CW, now its up to 200%, great balancing.

If GF and DC did not benefit from the set as much as CW, they might be better DDs, than the CW, with better group utility (buffs/ debuffs tank/heal).

I dont know, what exact effect this 'fix' will have, but I am sure, that this singular action will not balance anything.
Okay, firstly when you, as a CW, are using the Lostmauth set purely for its proc bonus, something is clearly wrong. Remind me again what a CWs main attributes are? Well I can tell you with all certainty it isn't DEX or STR, which guess what, the Lostmauth set provides. I will shed no tears for any class that has 'abused' this set over the mods and now has to replace it. This should have happened a long time ago and is a welcome change. No proc effect should be doing anywhere close to the damage Lostmauth set bonus did, maybe at most 10% of your total damage and that might even be too much.
This argument is stupid and always has been. If the elol set bonus had been on the valindra set instead of the elol set, you would have been arguing the same thing, only about GWFs and using a set with intelligence. Furthermore, the elol set still has the best stats for CW, I will STILL use it post nerf, irrespective of the poor attributes, because it still grants the biggest dps boost off the power/crit/arp alone.

You choose to play archery or combat and thus you choose to have low damage, trapper still deals damage. How would you like it if there was literally no viable dps choice? CW was defined by the elol set, GWF was enhanced by it.

Correct me if I'm wrong Sharp but doesn't the Black Ice set provide the exact same stat boost (Power/Crit/Arp)? And of course I'd be making the same argument because what is a GWF getting out of Intelligence when he would be better suited to taking an attribute that actually benefits the class. It would be akin to me as a HR taking CON and INT, which are both totally wasted. So no my argument makes total sense. The Lostmauth set was NOT MEANT for every DD class but because of the way it performed compared with the lack of alternatives it became the only option for most people.

tom · April 2016

Hi all,

good work!!! really looking forward to these changes.

thefabricant · April 2016

lirithiel said:

thefabricant said:

lirithiel said:

asterotg said:
Two things to comment on here.

Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?

Second thing is, that you should not 'fix' an effect, that contributed up to 40% of the dps of some classes and be done with it. Thats shortsighted, everything else I could say to discribe my opinion would be censored. Lets say my CW generated 40% of his dps from ELOL-set (I dont know, I dont use ATC). This is a 40% dmg nerf.

How about other classes. If the SW generates 10% from the set, he loses 10%. A good SW did 50%-100% more dmg than a similar geared CW, now its up to 200%, great balancing.

If GF and DC did not benefit from the set as much as CW, they might be better DDs, than the CW, with better group utility (buffs/ debuffs tank/heal).

I dont know, what exact effect this 'fix' will have, but I am sure, that this singular action will not balance anything.
Okay, firstly when you, as a CW, are using the Lostmauth set purely for its proc bonus, something is clearly wrong. Remind me again what a CWs main attributes are? Well I can tell you with all certainty it isn't DEX or STR, which guess what, the Lostmauth set provides. I will shed no tears for any class that has 'abused' this set over the mods and now has to replace it. This should have happened a long time ago and is a welcome change. No proc effect should be doing anywhere close to the damage Lostmauth set bonus did, maybe at most 10% of your total damage and that might even be too much.
This argument is stupid and always has been. If the elol set bonus had been on the valindra set instead of the elol set, you would have been arguing the same thing, only about GWFs and using a set with intelligence. Furthermore, the elol set still has the best stats for CW, I will STILL use it post nerf, irrespective of the poor attributes, because it still grants the biggest dps boost off the power/crit/arp alone.

You choose to play archery or combat and thus you choose to have low damage, trapper still deals damage. How would you like it if there was literally no viable dps choice? CW was defined by the elol set, GWF was enhanced by it.
Correct me if I'm wrong Sharp but doesn't the Black Ice set provide the exact same stat boost (Power/Crit/Arp)? And of course I'd be making the same argument because what is a GWF getting out of Intelligence when he would be better suited to taking an attribute that actually benefits the class. It would be akin to me as a HR taking CON and INT, which are both totally wasted. So no my argument makes total sense. The Lostmauth set was NOT MEANT for every DD class but because of the way it performed compared with the lack of alternatives it became the only option for most people.

AND Constitution of coarse, because CW's really need a set that boosts HP.................

decioteixeirapt · April 2016

I spend hundreds of hours farming to get my CW over 4k item level and now all that hard work i did goes to the ground.

With this change on LOL set ( actually its a big big big big LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL to the person who decided to make this change) you just kill my will to play this game. I spend more than 8 hours online everyday running through the content in NW.

It's a laugh a really big one, when someone that dont play the game daily like most of us decides to nerf/fix LOL set. I just logged this morning and just think that the last 8 months was a total waste of time.

YOU ARE LOOSING PLAYERS and on every ridiculous change you do in classes/items/economy you loose even more...

Good luck to the CW's that will strugle to be part of something in this game, clearly we are obsolete. It's intended!!

Thank you for not listening DEVS.

lirithiel · April 2016

thefabricant said:

lirithiel said:

thefabricant said:

lirithiel said:

asterotg said:
Two things to comment on here.

Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?

Second thing is, that you should not 'fix' an effect, that contributed up to 40% of the dps of some classes and be done with it. Thats shortsighted, everything else I could say to discribe my opinion would be censored. Lets say my CW generated 40% of his dps from ELOL-set (I dont know, I dont use ATC). This is a 40% dmg nerf.

How about other classes. If the SW generates 10% from the set, he loses 10%. A good SW did 50%-100% more dmg than a similar geared CW, now its up to 200%, great balancing.

If GF and DC did not benefit from the set as much as CW, they might be better DDs, than the CW, with better group utility (buffs/ debuffs tank/heal).

I dont know, what exact effect this 'fix' will have, but I am sure, that this singular action will not balance anything.
Okay, firstly when you, as a CW, are using the Lostmauth set purely for its proc bonus, something is clearly wrong. Remind me again what a CWs main attributes are? Well I can tell you with all certainty it isn't DEX or STR, which guess what, the Lostmauth set provides. I will shed no tears for any class that has 'abused' this set over the mods and now has to replace it. This should have happened a long time ago and is a welcome change. No proc effect should be doing anywhere close to the damage Lostmauth set bonus did, maybe at most 10% of your total damage and that might even be too much.
This argument is stupid and always has been. If the elol set bonus had been on the valindra set instead of the elol set, you would have been arguing the same thing, only about GWFs and using a set with intelligence. Furthermore, the elol set still has the best stats for CW, I will STILL use it post nerf, irrespective of the poor attributes, because it still grants the biggest dps boost off the power/crit/arp alone.

You choose to play archery or combat and thus you choose to have low damage, trapper still deals damage. How would you like it if there was literally no viable dps choice? CW was defined by the elol set, GWF was enhanced by it.
Correct me if I'm wrong Sharp but doesn't the Black Ice set provide the exact same stat boost (Power/Crit/Arp)? And of course I'd be making the same argument because what is a GWF getting out of Intelligence when he would be better suited to taking an attribute that actually benefits the class. It would be akin to me as a HR taking CON and INT, which are both totally wasted. So no my argument makes total sense. The Lostmauth set was NOT MEANT for every DD class but because of the way it performed compared with the lack of alternatives it became the only option for most people.
AND Constitution of coarse, because CW's really need a set that boosts HP.................

I was referring to the Power/Crit/ArP spread that you pointed out was abundant on the Lostmauth set so I mentioned that those stats exist on Black Ice set too. CON, DEX, STR all not optimal for CW regardless.

ghoulz66 · April 2016

Seriously, you can't just nerf one thing to oblivion then decide to wait 6 months to buff other things to compensate.

When will SW's shadow puppet, TT, and murderous flames be addressed? When will broken beyond belief buff GFs be addressed who are the go to for BiS clear speed anyway, not OPs.

gor1llaf1st · April 2016

You say your doing these changes to bring balance back to the game, well alot of people can barely survive as is to complete the higher level stuff like Epic Demogorgon. How do you expect the average player group to defeat this skirmish and others with the proposed super nerfs? How do you expect anyone to survive with less dps and almost no bubble with constant insanity kicking? Your sense of game balancing of late is ridiculous and will no doubt be responsible for more people leaving this game. Its supposed to be fun, not a constant dev vs player battle that seems to be the new norm. FYI, if you want to curb gross manipulation of an obvious bug, offer good rewards to people that report them.

agatagdr · April 2016

Farewell my fellow CW's

razor4lpha · April 2016

Make all arti gear always refine to another as double please, like the weapons do.

torontodave · April 2016

torontodave said:
As long as you give us a 3xRP weekend so I can turn my Max Lostmauth set into a Max Valindra set.. 80% will just be salt in the wound. =X

or alternatively, make the lostmauth set UNBOUND one time only. so we can move the artifacts to another char. =D

grimah · April 2016

thefabricant said:

You choose to play archery or combat and thus you choose to have low damage, trapper still deals damage. How would you like it if there was literally no viable dps choice? CW was defined by the elol set, GWF was enhanced by it.

The fact that CWs and SWs relied on those extra crits so much to become viable, is just broken. A class's effectiveness should not rest soley on the set itself.

It's not the set's problem but the class that needs changes, especially SW.

Man up, and stop whining. Ask for the right improvements, because changing this set to crit again is not the solution to class balance. No class should be pigeon holed into one set.

ironzerg79 · April 2016

@grimah Exactly. If buffs need to be added to the CW, then let's tackle that issue separately. But personally, I never liked the fact that my entire class was defined by a item set bonus. I want my class and my build to define my character, not an item set.

For those that can see the bigger picture, it's easy to see why this change is good for the overall health of the game. We'll now see how classes truly perform, and I'm confident the right adjustments can be made from there.

urabask · April 2016

ironzerg79 said:
@grimah Exactly. If buffs need to be added to the CW, then let's tackle that issue separately. But personally, I never liked the fact that my entire class was defined by a item set bonus. I want my class and my build to define my character, not an item set.

For those that can see the bigger picture, it's easy to see why this change is good for the overall health of the game. We'll now see how classes truly perform, and I'm confident the right adjustments can be made from there.

: |

And how long is that going to take? Cryptic is just swinging the nerf hammer without having any buffs to CW in consideration even.

thefabricant · April 2016

ironzerg79 said:
@grimah Exactly. If buffs need to be added to the CW, then let's tackle that issue separately. But personally, I never liked the fact that my entire class was defined by a item set bonus. I want my class and my build to define my character, not an item set.

For those that can see the bigger picture, it's easy to see why this change is good for the overall health of the game. We'll now see how classes truly perform, and I'm confident the right adjustments can be made from there.

@ironzerg79

How long did it take Cryptic to nerf the elol set? 3 mods? Enjoy playing a pure support class for 3 mods.

ayroux · April 2016

beckylunatic said:

deathbeez said:

beckylunatic said:

asterotg said:
Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?
They didn't. That (fairly leading) poll was made by a regular forum user.

I recall that the vote was clearly in the majority of leaving the set the way it was.
So I have to agree with asterotg, they did ignore the input.
And it wasn't feedback they solicited in the first place, so that doesn't matter either.

They're doing a thing that needed to be done. Amenar has laid out exactly why it needed to be done, which is exactly what everyone who expressed a need to get it toned down said in that poll.

Most of the arguments against it are made from a personal perspective, not a good-of-the-game perspective.

I havnt posted in a LONG time, but felt I needed to. This is SPOT ON.

If you think this isnt the correct change to the set, then you are 100% out of touch with reality and have NO clue about the issues that plague this game.

Please people, stop looking at this from your OWN perspective and look at it from what the game needs to do to be better.... This is something that should have happened over a year ago. Atleast they are doing it now.

You all either forget or were not even here when they announced that set bonuses on artifact sets were NOT going to be very good and should NOT be a reason for getting the entire set... The GOAL behind sets was to give a small "bonus" for having it all, but they specifically said that most people wont run sets but rather just get stats they want.... This was not true on the LOL set and the bonus became THE reason people used it. It flew 100% AGAINST what they said when they rolled these out, it is game breaking, not just in PVE but in PVP as well.

Now, some people are posting about their class and how they cant DPS as well as another etc etc... I know GWF will get hit the HARDEST with this nerf... But its needed and if AFTER this change they see a class under performing, guess what..... they might FIX IT! Who knows

10000% behind this change guys! Now if only you fixed those damn stealth rings....

ichimaruginx · April 2016

grimah said:

thefabricant said:

You choose to play archery or combat and thus you choose to have low damage, trapper still deals damage. How would you like it if there was literally no viable dps choice? CW was defined by the elol set, GWF was enhanced by it.
The fact that CWs and SWs relied on those extra crits so much to become viable, is just broken. A class's effectiveness should not rest soley on the set itself.

It's not the set's problem but the class that needs changes, especially SW.

Man up, and stop whining. Ask for the right improvements, because changing this set to crit again is not the solution to class balance. No class should be pigeon holed into one set.

Nerf the LM set, Buff the CWs. Period. Because it's not whining when people address that the LM set is essentially a big chunk of DPS of CWs. This is a REALLY REALLY SAD BUT TRUE fact. CWs are pigeonholed to a LM set. And if they nerf it now WITHOUT improvements to CWs, CWs will become the old HRs, not really welcomed in parties and even worse actually because CWs don't even have fox, CCing is pointless with un-CCable bosses and elite, the trash dies too fast in the hands of GWFs and SWs to need any CC even.

Man up by what then? When people start rejecting CWs from parties? When all the good CWs left because the class they main is only an extra body for dungeon? Believe it or not, NW's CW community is one of the most active in game, it is still now but not sure for how long anymore. Those are the players we are losing, man up and play another class? or another spec? Sorry but no spec of a CW is dungeon-viable-DPS-dealing right now post LM nerf.

And if we can't even play a Wizard which is the most fundamental class in any D&D or MMORPG, that's really, really laughable and just plain pitiful.

katbozejziemi · April 2016

Do you guys seriously think that extra hit for flat weapon damage is worth anything? Maybe you should take a look at the enchantment usage stats to figure this one out.

lirithiel · April 2016

ichimaruginx said:

grimah said:

thefabricant said:

You choose to play archery or combat and thus you choose to have low damage, trapper still deals damage. How would you like it if there was literally no viable dps choice? CW was defined by the elol set, GWF was enhanced by it.
The fact that CWs and SWs relied on those extra crits so much to become viable, is just broken. A class's effectiveness should not rest soley on the set itself.

It's not the set's problem but the class that needs changes, especially SW.

Man up, and stop whining. Ask for the right improvements, because changing this set to crit again is not the solution to class balance. No class should be pigeon holed into one set.
Nerf the LM set, Buff the CWs. Period. Because it's not whining when people address that the LM set is essentially a big chunk of DPS of CWs. This is a REALLY REALLY SAD BUT TRUE fact. CWs are pigeonholed to a LM set. And if they nerf it now WITHOUT improvements to CWs, CWs will become the old HRs, not really welcomed in parties and even worse actually because CWs don't even have fox, CCing is pointless with un-CCable bosses and elite, the trash dies too fast in the hands of GWFs and SWs to need any CC even.

Man up by what then? When people start rejecting CWs from parties? When all the good CWs left because the class they main is only an extra body for dungeon? Believe it or not, NW's CW community is one of the most active in game, it is still now but not sure for how long anymore. Those are the players we are losing, man up and play another class? or another spec? Sorry but no spec of a CW is dungeon-viable-DPS-dealing right now post LM nerf.

And if we can't even play a Wizard which is the most fundamental class in any D&D or MMORPG, that's really, really laughable and just plain pitiful.

I don't want to start a flame war here but welcome to the world of every other class in NW that was neglected pre-Mod 6 as CWs ran rampant in this game and pwned anything and everything in their wake

treesclimber · April 2016

Today in Portobello's campain: "Inteligence is clearly the dump stat" coincidence? i think not.

lirithiel · April 2016

katbozejziemi said:
Do you guys seriously think that extra hit for flat weapon damage is worth anything? Maybe you should take a look at the enchantment usage stats to figure this one out.

Please read the post by @ayroux if you are still confused by the change to Lostmauth set. He explained it perfectly.

zekethesinner · April 2016

lirithiel said:

thefabricant said:

lirithiel said:

thefabricant said:

lirithiel said:

asterotg said:
Two things to comment on here.

Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?

Second thing is, that you should not 'fix' an effect, that contributed up to 40% of the dps of some classes and be done with it. Thats shortsighted, everything else I could say to discribe my opinion would be censored. Lets say my CW generated 40% of his dps from ELOL-set (I dont know, I dont use ATC). This is a 40% dmg nerf.

How about other classes. If the SW generates 10% from the set, he loses 10%. A good SW did 50%-100% more dmg than a similar geared CW, now its up to 200%, great balancing.

If GF and DC did not benefit from the set as much as CW, they might be better DDs, than the CW, with better group utility (buffs/ debuffs tank/heal).

I dont know, what exact effect this 'fix' will have, but I am sure, that this singular action will not balance anything.
Okay, firstly when you, as a CW, are using the Lostmauth set purely for its proc bonus, something is clearly wrong. Remind me again what a CWs main attributes are? Well I can tell you with all certainty it isn't DEX or STR, which guess what, the Lostmauth set provides. I will shed no tears for any class that has 'abused' this set over the mods and now has to replace it. This should have happened a long time ago and is a welcome change. No proc effect should be doing anywhere close to the damage Lostmauth set bonus did, maybe at most 10% of your total damage and that might even be too much.
This argument is stupid and always has been. If the elol set bonus had been on the valindra set instead of the elol set, you would have been arguing the same thing, only about GWFs and using a set with intelligence. Furthermore, the elol set still has the best stats for CW, I will STILL use it post nerf, irrespective of the poor attributes, because it still grants the biggest dps boost off the power/crit/arp alone.

You choose to play archery or combat and thus you choose to have low damage, trapper still deals damage. How would you like it if there was literally no viable dps choice? CW was defined by the elol set, GWF was enhanced by it.
Correct me if I'm wrong Sharp but doesn't the Black Ice set provide the exact same stat boost (Power/Crit/Arp)? And of course I'd be making the same argument because what is a GWF getting out of Intelligence when he would be better suited to taking an attribute that actually benefits the class. It would be akin to me as a HR taking CON and INT, which are both totally wasted. So no my argument makes total sense. The Lostmauth set was NOT MEANT for every DD class but because of the way it performed compared with the lack of alternatives it became the only option for most people.
AND Constitution of coarse, because CW's really need a set that boosts HP.................
I was referring to the Power/Crit/ArP spread that you pointed out was abundant on the Lostmauth set so I mentioned that those stats exist on Black Ice set too. CON, DEX, STR all not optimal for CW regardless.

There is no point taking Bis et over elol set if they have same stats, for simple reason, Bi set will deal 2k dmg in total in whole dung, elol set will at least deal around 2k dmg on each crit.

That said even if for cw taking set with correct atributes would benefid in 5% dmg boost from all that additional INT/WIS whatever over elol set. CW still was getting around 40% of its dmg from elol set proc, so its =5% dmg taking set with right atributes, or +40% dmg taking elol set, difference is 35%, or elol set is 700% more effective.

Simply put, u need to look on atributes as boost to dmg, when u see couple right atributes is much more than pure dmg proc elol set is offering.

Easy, dont u think?

(Sin)cerely
Kain

lirithiel · April 2016

zekethesinner said:

lirithiel said:

thefabricant said:

lirithiel said:

thefabricant said:

lirithiel said:

asterotg said:
Two things to comment on here.

Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?

Second thing is, that you should not 'fix' an effect, that contributed up to 40% of the dps of some classes and be done with it. Thats shortsighted, everything else I could say to discribe my opinion would be censored. Lets say my CW generated 40% of his dps from ELOL-set (I dont know, I dont use ATC). This is a 40% dmg nerf.

How about other classes. If the SW generates 10% from the set, he loses 10%. A good SW did 50%-100% more dmg than a similar geared CW, now its up to 200%, great balancing.

If GF and DC did not benefit from the set as much as CW, they might be better DDs, than the CW, with better group utility (buffs/ debuffs tank/heal).

I dont know, what exact effect this 'fix' will have, but I am sure, that this singular action will not balance anything.
Okay, firstly when you, as a CW, are using the Lostmauth set purely for its proc bonus, something is clearly wrong. Remind me again what a CWs main attributes are? Well I can tell you with all certainty it isn't DEX or STR, which guess what, the Lostmauth set provides. I will shed no tears for any class that has 'abused' this set over the mods and now has to replace it. This should have happened a long time ago and is a welcome change. No proc effect should be doing anywhere close to the damage Lostmauth set bonus did, maybe at most 10% of your total damage and that might even be too much.
This argument is stupid and always has been. If the elol set bonus had been on the valindra set instead of the elol set, you would have been arguing the same thing, only about GWFs and using a set with intelligence. Furthermore, the elol set still has the best stats for CW, I will STILL use it post nerf, irrespective of the poor attributes, because it still grants the biggest dps boost off the power/crit/arp alone.

You choose to play archery or combat and thus you choose to have low damage, trapper still deals damage. How would you like it if there was literally no viable dps choice? CW was defined by the elol set, GWF was enhanced by it.
Correct me if I'm wrong Sharp but doesn't the Black Ice set provide the exact same stat boost (Power/Crit/Arp)? And of course I'd be making the same argument because what is a GWF getting out of Intelligence when he would be better suited to taking an attribute that actually benefits the class. It would be akin to me as a HR taking CON and INT, which are both totally wasted. So no my argument makes total sense. The Lostmauth set was NOT MEANT for every DD class but because of the way it performed compared with the lack of alternatives it became the only option for most people.
AND Constitution of coarse, because CW's really need a set that boosts HP.................
I was referring to the Power/Crit/ArP spread that you pointed out was abundant on the Lostmauth set so I mentioned that those stats exist on Black Ice set too. CON, DEX, STR all not optimal for CW regardless.
There is no point taking Bis et over elol set if they have same stats, for simple reason, Bi set will deal 2k dmg in total in whole dung, elol set will at least deal around 2k dmg on each crit.

That said even if for cw taking set with correct atributes would benefid in 5% dmg boost from all that additional INT/WIS whatever over elol set. CW still was getting around 40% of its dmg from elol set proc, so its =5% dmg taking set with right atributes, or +40% dmg taking elol set, difference is 35%, or elol set is 700% more effective.

Simply put, u need to look on atributes as boost to dmg, when u see couple right atributes is much more than pure dmg proc elol set is offering.

Easy, dont u think?

(Sin)cerely
Kain

But @zekethesinner you are talking about the current situation, where I am referring to the future once LM set is nerfed. @sharpedge said he would still take the LM set over any other which is why I mentioned the BI set as it is also laiden with Power/Crit/ArP.

urabask · April 2016

lirithiel said:

zekethesinner said:

lirithiel said:

thefabricant said:

lirithiel said:

thefabricant said:

lirithiel said:

asterotg said:
Two things to comment on here.

Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?

Second thing is, that you should not 'fix' an effect, that contributed up to 40% of the dps of some classes and be done with it. Thats shortsighted, everything else I could say to discribe my opinion would be censored. Lets say my CW generated 40% of his dps from ELOL-set (I dont know, I dont use ATC). This is a 40% dmg nerf.

How about other classes. If the SW generates 10% from the set, he loses 10%. A good SW did 50%-100% more dmg than a similar geared CW, now its up to 200%, great balancing.

If GF and DC did not benefit from the set as much as CW, they might be better DDs, than the CW, with better group utility (buffs/ debuffs tank/heal).

I dont know, what exact effect this 'fix' will have, but I am sure, that this singular action will not balance anything.
Okay, firstly when you, as a CW, are using the Lostmauth set purely for its proc bonus, something is clearly wrong. Remind me again what a CWs main attributes are? Well I can tell you with all certainty it isn't DEX or STR, which guess what, the Lostmauth set provides. I will shed no tears for any class that has 'abused' this set over the mods and now has to replace it. This should have happened a long time ago and is a welcome change. No proc effect should be doing anywhere close to the damage Lostmauth set bonus did, maybe at most 10% of your total damage and that might even be too much.
This argument is stupid and always has been. If the elol set bonus had been on the valindra set instead of the elol set, you would have been arguing the same thing, only about GWFs and using a set with intelligence. Furthermore, the elol set still has the best stats for CW, I will STILL use it post nerf, irrespective of the poor attributes, because it still grants the biggest dps boost off the power/crit/arp alone.

You choose to play archery or combat and thus you choose to have low damage, trapper still deals damage. How would you like it if there was literally no viable dps choice? CW was defined by the elol set, GWF was enhanced by it.
Correct me if I'm wrong Sharp but doesn't the Black Ice set provide the exact same stat boost (Power/Crit/Arp)? And of course I'd be making the same argument because what is a GWF getting out of Intelligence when he would be better suited to taking an attribute that actually benefits the class. It would be akin to me as a HR taking CON and INT, which are both totally wasted. So no my argument makes total sense. The Lostmauth set was NOT MEANT for every DD class but because of the way it performed compared with the lack of alternatives it became the only option for most people.
AND Constitution of coarse, because CW's really need a set that boosts HP.................
I was referring to the Power/Crit/ArP spread that you pointed out was abundant on the Lostmauth set so I mentioned that those stats exist on Black Ice set too. CON, DEX, STR all not optimal for CW regardless.
There is no point taking Bis et over elol set if they have same stats, for simple reason, Bi set will deal 2k dmg in total in whole dung, elol set will at least deal around 2k dmg on each crit.

That said even if for cw taking set with correct atributes would benefid in 5% dmg boost from all that additional INT/WIS whatever over elol set. CW still was getting around 40% of its dmg from elol set proc, so its =5% dmg taking set with right atributes, or +40% dmg taking elol set, difference is 35%, or elol set is 700% more effective.

Simply put, u need to look on atributes as boost to dmg, when u see couple right atributes is much more than pure dmg proc elol set is offering.

Easy, dont u think?

(Sin)cerely
Kain
But @zekethesinner you are talking about the current situation, where I am referring to the future once LM set is nerfed. @sharpedge said he would still take the LM set over any other which is why I mentioned the BI set as it is also laiden with Power/Crit/ArP.

Except there's no point because the lolset bonus is still better than the attributes you'd gain.

Lostmauth's Vengeance changes

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