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negation attachment.
mark88arsitek
Member Posts: 28 Arc User
negation attachment need help. i dont understand how it works
Post edited by mark88arsitek on
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mark88arsitek
Member Posts: 28 Arc User
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Yea man, I didn't say that the T.Fey nor the T.Neg are the equal of all enchants. However, when someone has those nice "luxuries" combined with legendary/mythic artifacts they will be nowhere near helpless. And if they are skilled to boot, folks like the OP still won't get their cake walk victory. But hey bud on another note, let me congratulate you on all of your fine victories over those who out-gear you. YOU are AWSOME, two thumbs up.
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
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SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
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What we had in module 6 is a pure switch from one BiS combo to another, MORE OVERPOWERED, BiS combo.
To be clear, old soulforged+vorpal never even came close to how overperforming are currently both TNegation and TFey.
In fact, if you noticed, the devs changed a particular aspect of the game that switched Negation from DR on a separate layer (overperforming by far in PvP) to a DR that can be ignored through ArP. Which is more in-line. They also increased the Barkshield HP shield. Soulforged is currently not so good because it basically revives the user in such a weakened state that he gets killed a second later unless you have Lathander Set. Could use a little upgrade too.
Now may be instead of seeing 99% of PvP players wearing negation (should tell you something about how off-balance the enhant is), in module 7 we will see some more Barkshields and Soulforged.
About TFey, this enchant too is overperforming for a very, simple reason: it's the one and only enchant of that type that at Trans level has 100% uptime. The other similar enchant, Bronzewood, is still 10s up, 20s cooldown (50% uptime).
To be in line with the rest of the enchants, TFey should be reverted back to 10s up/20s cooldown at Trans level.
Now, the above are FACTS.
Playing the three monkeys does not change the facts.
And the facts are that both Tneg and TFey in their current form are overperforming.
Now TNegation mechanic will get a deserved, indirect change.
TFey is next.
Squishy classes compensate with other defensive mechanisms (such as CW ranged+repel) or get tankier working on stats and giving up some offense. You know, the old balance between offense and defense.
Funny how now every negation user feels like it's ok if a simple, overperforming armor enchant can turn a squishy DPS class into a tank, without the need to give up some DPS to increase survivability.
Get back to reality people...
T negation is back in line not useless, you need a bunch of arp to make it useless too, therefore you have to sacrifice a good portion of stats and damage
so in case you have 90% arp it is multiplied ith arp resist 60%,
so having 82% DR from ich is 30% negation and 12% defence
you ill go like 42 x ((1-(0,9x 0,4)) =26,8 you end up ith 40+26,8 =66,8 DR
ithout negation it ill be 40+7,7 = 47,7
so in case you think 20% DR is nothing and not orth anything you ould be right, you lose about 1/3 from the effecivness
it stays a very poerfull enchant, much better than SF or Barkshield for squishy classes
if a maxed player decides to go all for arp like 120% ARP , you lose half of your effectiveness...but he sacrifices half of his damage bc 120% arp is a big number
feel like beeing infected by the "virus of w-less-speech"
who implemented this kind of s.hit?
why do they not give the owner 4 million arp? that would be a statement !
this game is doomed by helpless and untalented develloper, they fak it up every mod
if i spend every little slot and artifact for arp i get 12k arp more or less, so in case i have 8k+mount i diminish Negation 50%, stays a powerfull enchant imo compared to other useless stuff
The big difference was the damned feytouched... yet he told me I needed to learn how to play my class.
30% dr on a separate layer is a long shot above a resurrect at 10k hp every 75 seconds in pvp, or any other enchant except elven on tank healers DC/OP.
This is the truth about module 6.
The change brings it back in line as it is pure truth that it was overperforming and i might reverse your reasoning: the only ones denying the fact that it was overperforming are players who own it.
Now the issue here is how devs then gave access to ArP through the above lockbox mounts and stuff.
So what negation users should ask for is less access to ArP/ RI. That is the true, stupid move. Increasing so much the access to this stat.
And yes, elven must be nerfed too as it does not just reduces cc duration a bit, it completely makes any cc power, worthless.
Same thing for OP, DC, CW with op shield... and so it goes.
Here's is your error.
A squishy class qas not "speccing for tankiness". Was speccing for damage, then using negation to become a tank itself while not giving up not even an ounce of their attack power.
Also, you say that itemization is used to "correct and enchance your stats".
Negation currently is 30% DR on a separate layer. Which means that a 10% DR control wizard can wear a PNegation+ enchant and jump to 40% DR, 30% of which is unmitigable, and become far tankier than a GWF or GF who's not using negation (tankier classes). And all is achieven with one, single enchant, without the need to give up offensive stats cause you know, CWs get pretty much the same HP as GWFs these days (BiS ones get to 100k+).
So your main complaint is, as you stated, the access to such high ArP stats, which can reach 100% DRI or more.
So guys, sorry if i must repeat myself, but Negation DR not being "absolute" aka "on a separate layer", but being, like normal DR, countered by ArP, is just perfectly in line with other enchants that DO NOT make 90% of your survivability, but just "enhance it".
The real problem is that the max DR you can reach and ArP you can stack, should be limited and you should give up something to get more of them.
Negation in module 6 did not correct or enhance player's stats. It simply made everyone using it in PvP far tankier than anyone not using it, and gave Negation users a huge, clear advantage over non-negation users.
Clear proof of this is the fact that the whole player base with few exceptions started using it as it was, indeed, a "must have" enchant. Cause it WAS overperforming.
You might notice that every enchant has a counter.
SF is a low hp resurrect and has a long cooldown (75 seconds).
Barkshield is depleted by DoT/ at will spam and made ineffective.
Now negation, instead of being 30% DR on a separate layer with no counter, can be countered with ArP.
I never read all these negation users in previous modules, complaining about how Barkshield could be countered if the enemy took the time to first spam at-wills, and then burst. But it could be NULLIFIED just like that. Still, the enchant was useful cause not every player took the time to deplete it, and every 6 seconds you have a new charge and no player just time his at.wills to nullify every charge of barkshield that regenerates.
Negation is still very good even after the changes since it forces players to stack around 3k more ArP stat to fully counter it, or simply have the enemy receiving X% less damage if your ArP cannot fully offset it. And not every player will have the new dumb ArP mount or the new boon anytime soon.
So once again your problem should be how the devs allow players to stack 10k ArP in new module, rather than ask for Negation to be overpowered again just cause you have it and it's so nice when you face non-negation/ lesser negation users and just have the advantage.
In the meanwhile, if an enemy counters your precious negation, use your pretty brain and think that:
- if he's a negation user you can stack ArP like he does and nullify his enchant
- if he's a SF user you can usually shot him down upon resurrection easily, and the enchant has a 75s cooldown
- if he's a Barkshield user, 3 at-wills will nullify his charges at the start.
If you're a squishy class it means you're a ranged class usually (SW, CW,HR) so ffs learn to use your range, and repel, and dodge, and zoom mobility, and work in team cause you're not supposed to tank in melee range thanks to a single enchant, or a TR, which is currently even more survivable than tank classes so please do not embarass yourself complaining about survivability.
If you still feel like you're not though enough, here's what you can do:
give up some offense, and stack some more defensive stats and powers like other classes must do.
Now you will also notice that if your CW or HR or other DPS class, stacks enough ArP, those Negation GWFs will now go down so fast you will cry in happiness. Cause GWF base survivability is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and with Negation fixed you will notice how it is more balanced since they can sure do mommoth damage to you, but now you can do mammoth damage to them too, as if they were wearing a mere soulforged enchant.
Now, in terms of pure technicality, Negation did have a positive effect in the early phases of mod6, pando. Like mentioned above it did have the effect of helping out with the more 'squishy' classes survive better in game, and thus helped balance out the so-called "time-to-kill" factor and allowed all classes to at least mix it up and trade punches for a while before being killed -- as opposed to the insta-glib you'd see in mod5.
But admittedly, that was early mod-6, just few weeks after release of the new mod. Now, Negation is widely proliferated, and you even see transcendent negation in under-lv70 lowbie PvP. Even the tanky classes mostly have access to negation now, and this wouldn't have been that much of a problem if were it not for those accursed, goddarned Paly-roaches breeding like crazy everywhere. That, and a lot of other factors which I will not discuss here, have essentially turned the "curve" to the bad side, and at the current state it is quite undeniable that Negation, ultimately, is now doing more harm than good.
In that sense I agree with you. However, this also requires a condition in that a lot of the damage levels need adjusting, particularly those of GWFs and GFs. The way GFs are now, they're just crazy, despite its proponents arguing that things are tough for the GF, I can dare say its not. I've also long argued that the GWFs need a serious damage cut-backs, and in turn needs to be redesigned/retweaked so that they deal a more effective, constant damage as melees, instead of the "all-or-nothing" whack-job of gamble they are currently.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
GFs are indeed, when geared, pretty fearsome now since they can literally burst like a full stacks GWF, from start, while being also able to turtle behind their shield. The damage of the class seems to be a little too high.
To be honest, the situation should be reversed: a GWF which is squishier, should burst high from the start, while a GF that can turtle and tank more, should build up his damage slowly. If you ask me.
It's not noticed much cause less geared GFs are not much of a threat, but BiS ones are worst than GWFs or other classes cause they literally hit you like a heavy truck at full speed.
Both GWFs and GFs could use a damage tone down and some rework.
Negation however needed a rollback of some sort. May be now we will see a bit more soulforged users and barkshield users along with elven battle and negation.
I'm more worried about the absurd trend of putting 4k stats of any sort on mounts, and allowing players to stack 100%+ DRI...seriously...
Honestly speaking, I know for a fact that they'll just do it. The devs have a really, really bad track-record when it comes to paying attention to knowledgeable people when it comes to these sort of things.
As a matter of fact we've already seen this happen, when Sigil of the Divine first came out... and then the coming of auto-AP gain neck artifacts in mod5. In both cases some people, including myself, have warned that its going to negatively influence PvP... which is exactly what happened.
Nowadays people spam dailies like candies. We've warned and reported to the devs how this simply warps all the power balance around and simply exaggerates and amplifies the problems with balance to a bad, bad situation. The most obvious example we've seen in mod5 TRs and the daily-spamming to become unkillable, as much example being HRs also becoming always ready with enough AP to spam Disruptive Shot everytime cool comes off, Palyroaches spamming DP... and whatnot.
And what do they do about it? They add MORE AUTO-AP GAINING ARTIFACTS, THIS TIME, IN THE FORM OF A MOUNT.
So, in this aspect, the devs are... I dunno... probably intentionally ignoring us. Even our class advocates or those guys don't do any good. It's gonna happen, PvP is going to become more sheety, people are gonna find new ways to exploit Stronghold, and the new boons and stuff are going to break the PvP even more.
Frankly speaking, NW PvP is doomed. I see maybe at most 2~3 more mods until the 'straw' breaks, and the PvPers will just start leaving, queues are going to become long, PvP scene will be abandoned with only a handful of "P2W" guys will be left, and soon its going to be just like "Champions Online" -- queueing for 3 hours for 1 game of Zombie Apocalypse to find out there aren't enough people to start the game.
They just don't listen. Nothing gets fixed anymore.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
you get 70% unmitigatable DR
40% from tenacity 30% from enchant, on top 12% as squishy target defence that only is dimished by arp for a small ammount
Plague fire or terror are useless because you debuff your target from 82 (80% cap) to 77%, 3xPlaguefire-debuff does effective 3% less damageresist? <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> !! same with terror enchant
all you can go is feytouched because it boosts your over all damage
the discussion is not worth it, because things are quite clear
btw even by having 150% arp, thats a ton of arp, can´t say if you get it even using this silly mount, you get a squishy target from 82% to 57%, so 23% under cap for sacrificing every little point for arp
Negation will stay more in line than before but very good and effective
more problematic will be facing classes that bypass arp and negation on top with their encounter as triple mark from GF, they for sure will oneshot some player I guess
But that is a choice the devs made, as they'd choosen to make that silly arpen mount. Many enchants got obsolete due to new stats curve, or low values overall (barkshield, being fixed though). People argue against negation 'cause they did not have it. Those who started to grind it (greater for example) now have a useless enchant, EVERY SINGLE pvper will have the arpen mount, making your hr's dr + greater negation irrelevant. Because if stacking 15k arpen would increase overall damage by 100 percent, every player will do it and negation would be useless. It would be much smarter to give internal CD to negation, target would be more vulnerable to burst damage and dot enchants wouldn't be so useless.
About that 100%, if you are asking yourself "WTF?!", it is due to the effectiveness of attacks in pvp: if your attack was 25% effective, now with negation gone due to 125% resistance ignored, your damage effectiveness would be close to 55%, more than 100% damage increase. Think about it.
Trans Terror's 25% damage is every hit. The 40% power/defense debuff can't stack but has no CD. Only the root has a 30s CD on it. I'm a bit surprised it's not coming back into use now that it's not bugged and granting buffs to the target instead of debuffs.
I understand why Vorpal isn't used much - after Perfect the debuffs are hardly with the cost to upgrade.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
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