I'm so sick of dungeons...

gornonthecob

Yeah I just don't know what to do anymore. I went on a month break from Neverwinter. I came back and was eager to play my CW, but sadly so the rest of the world plays one too, and that makes it impossible to get groups. So I brushed off my cleric, and queue up...



This is all I ever see. What is going on with the group finder?!?!!

What do those red circles even mean? Not enough players? Then why pop the queue?

FURTHERMORE- When I finally do get into a dungeon, every rushes past all the mobs in order to get to the next camp fire. We end up losing AT LEAST 2 people who die in the attempt, they get pissed and leave. Every single group I get in loses at least 1 member within the first 5 minutes.

So, Cryptic, how do you plan on fixing your dungeons / lfg system? I read on these very forums once that the reason people try to skip over parts are due to bad design. I didn't used to agree, but now I see it. Nobody wants to wade through 30 minutes of trash to get to loot. Everyone looks for ways to glitch your bosses because nobody wants to fight endless waves of mobs, wipe 5-10 times, and have group members give up.

What are you doing to salvage this?

runebane

I feel your pain. I also tried to run some dungeons with the queue tonight.

Queued for Mad Dragon. Joined and found only 2 other players. That were already off on their own in the dungeon trying to duo stuff.

Queued for CN. Joined 5 times. Every single time it was me and one or two others. Never a full group inside.

Queued for Malabog's Castle. First time it showed a full group, but the healer was still in Protector's Enclave. Then they left. After that the queue failed about 6-7 times. Then finally I got in. With a group and all.

We spent like half an hour or more on the first boss. Part of the group was adamant we glitch it. Didn't like that myself, but no one knew how to do so anyway, lol. Finally we just killed it. After that we had other problems. Rude remarks started, then namecalling, then people quit. Between the time in queue and the time in the dungeon, it seemed like hours wasted. And we didn't even reach the second boss.

This is exactly why I don't like having to do dungeons to get the best gear.

gornonthecob

I remember the good ol' days of EverQuest. You'd meet the nicest people there. Part of the reason was because people cared about their in-game reputations. But when you have games with millions of players on one server over 50 different instances, there's no 'community' anymore. It's a free-for-all that runs off all the good folks. And that's exactly why people leave dungeon groups. They have nothing to lose for name-calling, and leaving. No reputation. Just another X_Lonewolf_X <Uber Pants>

jintortle

LOL I gave up on Dungeons ages ago. I have 4 lv 60's for 4 months now and have only been in 1 dungeon in all that time.

It is too much work for my GF. To finish 1 dungeon after they kicked 1 for ninja rolling I had to take all my Full life potions on the Boss because well frankly I wanted it down and they were <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at back up. Next dungeon they just attacked the mobs with me tanking the boss for nearly 40 minutes solo. So I gave up.

CW read too much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on the Forums about pushing mobs off edges, now apparently they like that again. I just don't care no more about grouping with it. Though it is fun and I like its dynamics - I feel a negativity around the class and voom I'm gone.

TR is OK to play in a dungeon and Is really my only choice to go into one with.

DC is a bit tricky though rewarding. But It feels stupid sometimes and I hate Dickheads who never heal and expect you to heal them even out of conflict. Jeez take a potion. It is like they think my "at wills" heal or something and that I am their slave.

Did have a lv 60 GWF for a while but was a diff account and closed it because was ridiculous having 2 accounts.

Anyway the dungeons are too long for my liking - I would go in again with all classes and do not get me wrong I do like grouping and dungeons - I just haven't the time for them. I am so angry with the Skirmish system for this very reason.

I feel that the FORUMS and general respondents are in general Trolls just out to take down a game. This has affected me especially with my CW and also my GWF.

The real lesson is DO NOT READ FORUMS !! (lol) Their is heaps of variety in the game to do your own stuff (was not a big fan of dungeons in my WOW days after GS <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> started - but was always unfinished solo content and Great PVP zones - Neverwinter needs more variety outside of the dungeons).

At the moment I just generally get off on playing with the zen exchange, doing the odd Foundry or Skirmish and the events when they come up - come to think of it I have given up on getting all the boons (Except for my TR) in Sharanar(or whatever the name is) as well - this is because playing 1 character after another, farming zone currency is just ridiculous. I would really be only down to 1 character atm except I am using them for storage, Professions and it is fun to occasionally take them out for a spin.

Dungeons also loose their lustre - Why grind to get better gear, just to grind to get better gear? Leveling a character I am OK with, endless grind to hopefully get some loot - bahh!

Hopefully the Devs will think of a better system one day instead of every mmo following around each other like sheep. Can not really complain about that here since MMO's are all generically based on D&D anyway!!

Dungeons have been like this for most games I have played - What can you do....................

ordensmarschall

I feel the OP's pain. Today I queued for Frozen Heart. The first time we got to the first boss, and with no communication we wiped twice and people quit. The second time I ported in at the entrance to Hrimnir's lair in the middle of someone else's fight and died instantly. I only figured out where I was after having been killed. The third time, the popped up twice with 2 declines already marked. Finally I got in, but ported in at the second campfire, as did everyone else in the party. After our intial confusion we decided to just go from there. Made it to Hrimnir, killed him, but had the endless add spawn bug afterwards. Not the best dungeon experience I've had.

The other thing that detracts from enjoying dungeons is that no matter how you form your group you always get one or two that just run, even when using the "Legit" channels. There is no exploration, no communication, nothing. You choice is to either run with them, or let them die, in which case they ragequit. I have run most dungeons about 5 or more times, but most of them I have yet to get to truely explore and find the nodes and chests. I do not wonder why so many people avoid the dungeons, especially new players. Of course then there are the already oft discussed design issues.

twstdecho

I only ever random queue for a dungeon if I have zero expectations. PUG groups are better, but not awesome. Best bet, is to find a solid Guild that fits your play style.

sslothzz

I only go with parties from LFG channel. I don't bother queuing solo cuz it took me ages to get into a dungeon. Any dungeon except for, maybe, Pirate King.
Work with your friend list, OP. Find a guild.

hudman21

WTH Cryptic? Its extremely frustating to wipe just fighting trash. No wonder people glitch when they can or drop if the group composition isint what they want.

Endless waves of add spawns = fail

tundrrabloom

twstdecho wrote: »

I only ever random queue for a dungeon if I have zero expectations. PUG groups are better, but not awesome. Best bet, is to find a solid Guild that fits your play style.

This is really the best answer. It is best to do dungeons when over half your group is guild members. Your success rate increases drastically when you add a voice service with it.

PUGing only one or 2 players is great for recruiting to! When you get that one guy who joins your dungeon group and sees that the players are organized and communicating they stick around way after that first wipe and a lot times they end up as a new recruit in your guild.

So bottom line, find a guild that matches your play style and help it grow:) Form groups within the guild then branch out from there to fill the group.

colonelwing

hudman21 wrote: »

WTH Cryptic? Its extremely frustating to wipe just fighting trash. No wonder people glitch when they can or drop if the group composition isint what they want.

Endless waves of add spawns = fail

Mmo dungeons have always had adds.

ironzerg79

gornonthecob wrote: »

What are you doing to salvage this?

Recruiting more good players who want to do the dungeons as intended, not glitch or exploit them, and learn how to kill the bosses properly. And I'll be damned if Cleric's aren't worth their weight in gold.

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?523361-Unrepentant-Gaming-The-Finest-in-Pantless-Drunken-Exploit-Free-Gaming

I rarely, if ever, pug. And never completely randomly. If anything, we'll pick up an extra DPS to fill out a foursome, but never for anything we're not sure we could basically 4-man as needed.

Having to rely on the random group finder to place this game is a miserable experience, indeed.

yogokou

If you get popped in a dungeon with declines in queue pop-up, and less than five people in (sometimes there are not in a team):

- kindly ask people to leave and requeue since this instance is broken, and it messes the whole queue
- wait till you are the last one, then exit as well
- you will get the "return to instance" button, strip your gear till your GS drops low, then click it: you will be removed from the dungeon due to low GS
- the problematic instance closes since no people are left in it, re-queue and enjoy your fresh queue pop-up.

runebane

twstdecho wrote: »

I only ever random queue for a dungeon if I have zero expectations. PUG groups are better, but not awesome. Best bet, is to find a solid Guild that fits your play style.

There are expectations of the system and then there are expectations of the group it puts you with. I have 0 expectations of the group. (Its feels good to vent and complain about it sometimes though. I'm guilty of that as you can tell by my earlier post in this thread.) And according to the module 2 notes on preview they are already working on stuff to help with this. Like the ability to bring in a replacement.

What I think is a reasonable expectation though, is that the system should work. For the most part, you can't run an epic dungeon with one or two players. So why would the queue ever bring you into a dungeon without a full group? Its just wasting everyone's time.

alessaschimitt

To be sincere, i like dungeons, but i can't disagree when someone says that they're too long and have many bugs. Some bosses are really hard too, because of the large amount of adds, but not impossible to beat if you have a good party. Sometimes the challenge is nice.
And i hate the fast runs, but i can understand why people do that, it's too many time wasted in a place to a have a chance to get a good item. This when the leader doesn't kick everyone to get the drops for himself.
As by the queue system, it's not the game developers fault that it doesn't work. People have no patience to deal with begginers, so they just look for "experienced members" to join their party, which makes me angry too. Because of that, if i wanna make a party, i never require experience, so these people can have their chance to learn the dungeons, but i know that unfortunately only a few do that too.
On the other side, i understand the experience required, as it goes a lot faster, and you don't waste too many time in a dungeon.
I know they've already looked into the dungeons and fixed a lot of bugs, but it still has a lot of issues.

iergo

yogokou wrote: »

If you get popped in a dungeon with declines in queue pop-up, and less than five people in (sometimes there are not in a team):

- kindly ask people to leave and requeue since this instance is broken, and it messes the whole queue
- wait till you are the last one, then exit as well
- you will get the "return to instance" button, strip your gear till your GS drops low, then click it: you will be removed from the dungeon due to low GS
- the problematic instance closes since no people are left in it, re-queue and enjoy your fresh queue pop-up.

They don't speak English, so everything after kindly asking them to leave is useless. I complained about this exact thing last week and about a month and a half ago when I left, actually one of the reasons I left. I enjoy dungeons, nearly always pug because I'm confident in my abilities and would like to continue doing dungeons as an event. However, because this problem persist I can not enjoy dungeons in a timely manner. Additionally, not necessarily required but it would be nice if the Q system never put me in a group with someone from my block list.

kurisanton

The best advice I can give you is to find yourself a good guild to run dungeons with. A lot of the people that que for dungeons arent very good to put it mildly. Even the people in LFG often have baggage attatched. Just last night we recruited a rogue to do FH and he expected us to give him free potions and injury kits for the run. When you join a group youre supposed to come prepared, sometimes in rare circumstances Ill forget to stock up on the neccesities but generally speaking I never step into a T2 or MC/CN without a full stack of potions and injury kits, even if Im running with guildies, and I expect the same of everyone else.

With a guild you generally can have a good time at the very least even if youre failing all the time but youre also more likely to finish the dungeon with a full guild group as well. However at this point it can be difficult to find guild members who do these runs because theyve already farmed or bought all the stuff they need

gornonthecob

runebane wrote: »

For the most part, you can't run an epic dungeon with one or two players. So why would the queue ever bring you into a dungeon without a full group? Its just wasting everyone's time.

This is my primary concern. ^^
When I spend 40 minutes in broken queues during the 1 hour DD event, it's easy to get irritated.


I knew that a lot of you would probably encourage the idea of getting into a good guild for Dungeon runs, and that's very good advice. However, it doesn't fix a broken game mechanic, the glitches, the glitch abusers, the ridiculous amount of adds, and the overall tediousness of a dungeon.

Good feedback though, folks. Thank you for your thoughts.

lhyzz

I am getting pretty sick and tired of the state of dungeons in this game. There are so many bosses that are so **** hard, they are impossible to beat unless you're geared to the gills or, more likely, cheating. Aren't we all getting a little sick of the reliance on exploits that so many of us use? Ever enter a PUG and assume that you were going to run it legit? Nope, me neither. Know how to run and shortcut and glitch or you're going to be left behind.

Let me break it down:

1. Most boss fights are completely uninteresting in terms of strategy. Burn the boss, avoid the multitudes of adds the boss is going to spawn. Very few encounters rely on people learning about the boss' various abilities and coordinating to avoid and counter them. Instead, you have one set of people round up/burn down/control the adds while the other people burn the boss. Just about every single fight.

2. Difficulty has absolutely nothing to do with the progression throughout the dungeon. Boss #1 might be harder than boss #3, and sometimes the final boss is easiest of them all.

3. In almost every dungeon, there is one boss that is basically impossible to kill with a group far above the minimum gear score. It usually involves way too many adds that hit way too hard, so if anyone in your group isn't extremely experienced, you're going to wipe over and over again.

4. Strategy relies on and leaves out certain classes. One would expect that a game like this would balance the fights so that you would most likely need a) a tank, b) a healer, c) some dps. Maybe you might expect the fights to require one from each class, with some flexibility. If you have a trend where people feel the need to tailor their team to the exclusion of certain classes, something is definitely wrong.

5. You don't fix exploits simply by putting up invisible walls. You know what happens when you do that? People scramble to find another exploit. When there are no more exploits, but the fights haven't been altered significantly, people will just stop playing. You need to address the reason exploits are so prevalent in this game, and it's not simply because so many mistakes have been made in terms of making it possible to do so. It's how very, very boring, alarmingly repetitive, and insanely difficult the dungeons are. I think most of boss fights need to be redesigned from scratch. Period.

It's really pretty basic. Fights should require a tank, a healer, and damage. Maybe some add control. Not every dungeon should be accomplished by spamming singularity, glitching bosses off the edge of cliffs, and deliberately dying in a certain spot to skip to the next bit.

Remember, people are running epic dungeons to GET gear. Don't make the dungeons for the people farming eq to sell on the AH, make it for the people who want to get their gear through hard work instead of paying for it (oh wait, then people wouldn't buy zen and trade it in for AD... nevermind, I think I see why this game sucks so much).

nanners

I feel ya too OP, it's pretty frustrating isn't it? Which is why I created a post requesting more options to make this game playable: such as solo endgame content http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?521551-gt-gt-gt-Solo-Dungeons-Feedback-lt-lt-lt

bowdidly

colonelwing wrote: »

Mmo dungeons have always had adds.

Yes agree, But the actual boss is always the 'hard' part of the fight, after all he is a 'boss'. But in this game you put 1 party member on the 'boss' while everybody else tries to deal with a endless spawn of adds.

In this game the bosses do next to nothing, just a odd weapon swing or a AOE atack, it is the adds with have all the mechanics, they can silence you, stun, knock back, drain your AP. LOL, seroulsy

Why in this game are Bosses even called Bosses ? There is nothing at all 'epic' or 'tough' about them at all, you could solo kill most bosses with a cleric if there was no adds !

It is no wonder players are sick of dungeons when dungeons are set up like this, plus the amount of bugs and issues that are present in every instance in the game, they fix 1 only to create another, lol, even the queue finder is bugged

giggliato

Now that we "have" to kill the spider queen, I think the add wave timer should be decreased.

orianthi4

I was looking forward to some playtime this weekend with my online friends, help some friends get some much needed upgrades from dungeons,

But it seems most dont want to bother anymore, too many issues and broken mechanics, whats the point of struggling for hours to learn and get through some thing that is broken and will more than likely be changed or have a fix the folowing week, which will no doubt break some thing else in the process. i see the problem with the Red circles and danger marks has resurected even though it was 'supposedly' fixed. Makes more sence to not bother and wait until is is hope fully fixed, one day.

So yet another weekend i want to play, but non of my guild are realy intrested in playing 'broken ' content any more. i dont need any gear just wanted to help them get there gear, i just do it for fun and my own entertainment, but its just not fun anymore trying to work through bugged fights and dungeon issues, if anything its just frustration, especialy when some worked ok the previous week.

So my weekend of hoped hours of exspected fun with friends has turned into, just loging 2 of my characters and spending 10 mins to do the Sharandar daily sparks quest, and thats it.........nothing else to do........no body wants to realy do anything..... and understandably there is nothing actually worth doing.

grimah

why use the random group finder for a Tier 2 dungeon?

The only time you can use it and expect completion is doing a tier 1.

If you want to do the harder dungeons i suggest you search for a group/players using the lfg channel.

alandoril1

They're trying to add in more interesting mechanics to boss fights, but those mechanics inevitably result in the summoning of more adds...

clearlyavirgin

I know it's not this simple, and I'm pretty sure someone has already said this, but. Join a guild, pugging dungeons is never the way to go.

There are plenty of guilds out there that will help gear you up if you need it.

bowdidly

clearlyavirgin wrote: »

I know it's not this simple, and I'm pretty sure someone has already said this, but. Join a guild, pugging dungeons is never the way to go.

There are plenty of guilds out there that will help gear you up if you need it.

Yes it is easier with a guild group, but it does not hide the fact that all instances have bugs and issues, guild group or not content is still broken.. many just dont want to play 'broken' content, its just NOT fun. People play a game for fun and entertainment, NOT frustration.

grandizer77

gornonthecob wrote: »

I remember the good ol' days of EverQuest. You'd meet the nicest people there. Part of the reason was because people cared about their in-game reputations. But when you have games with millions of players on one server over 50 different instances, there's no 'community' anymore. It's a free-for-all that runs off all the good folks. And that's exactly why people leave dungeon groups. They have nothing to lose for name-calling, and leaving. No reputation. Just another X_Lonewolf_X <Uber Pants>

EQ definitely did some things right and I do miss the challenge, the community, and the role play aspect. All those have been lost in modern MMO's. We traded convenience for the journey. As much as people griped about things like taking boat rides and walking for 30 minutes, it really did make the journey memorable because all those trips were dangerous and it made fast travel a pricey luxury. I also loved it a lot more before the auction house when people sat around and sold stuff in ooc chat. I think that auction houses with auto-sort and filters are not good for game longevity just as Diablo III recently discovered. I would rather we just have a bazaar with a bunch of people setting up shop. You click on them to see what they are selling and there is no sort of master hud that tells you what everyone is selling. One thing I hated about EQ though was raiding. It was not a problem during the Verant era, but when Sony took over all they wanted everyone to do was raid. Dont get me wrong, some raids were a great experience but repeating raids is absolutely not fun.

Neverwinter is good. I am not sure it is the MMO for me but it has all sorts of potential despite little things I dont like. One thing I really dont like is the multiple currencies, the buggy auction house filters (I dont like AH's but if you are going to have one at least make it work right), and the fact that basic items are not available in game without money, aka storage space. $10 for a bag? Come on guys. I am willing to spend some money, but the prices have kept me from trusting the company and thus I have not spent any money yet.

ordensmarschall

Joining a guild to overcome dungeon difficulty is an easy default answer, but it is not always the right one. There are any number of guilds here, but before jumping into one make sure it is the right guild for you. That is not always as easy as it sounds. There are many guilds that have different values/goals than what you may be looking for. Plus being a member of guild should not be a prerequisite for being able to defeat a dungeon. Having dungeons that can be completed by good solid gameplay is a must. However not all blame should be thrown at the feet of the developers. The culture that players have allowed to rise also carries some of the burden of making dungeons unenjoyable as often as they are fun.

pallier

i think we should be able to preform a group then queue with that group to enter... why should we be penalized for putting a group together first by being forced to run to the dungeon entrance when random players can port directly inside?
if a higher level joins for a lower level dungeon they should be able to port in too if the leader of the party is the right level for the dungeon.

freedumb4eva

FIX the glitches, people should have to fight through the entire dungeon in order to get the loot. It's called working for loot.

A lot of bad players are getting through this content because of glitches. That is how I see it.

petestarks

Classic... Join a guild or suck it! /thread

(or so I have been told when I brought up the exact same point)