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"The Last Threshold" Discussion (SPOILER ALERT)
kfmc
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 135 Bounty Hunter
***Disclaimer***
***This thread will be full of discussion that will definitely SPOIL you if you have not FINISHED the book!!!***
***You have been warned***
Discuss.***This thread will be full of discussion that will definitely SPOIL you if you have not FINISHED the book!!!***
***You have been warned***
-So, does Mielikki really favor Drizzt? The obvious would be yes, but I'm intrigued by how Drizzt explained his views to Draygo. (I wish I had my copy with me to find the exact lines) Something about Drizzt has his own views and personal morals, and those views, as he's told, is called Mielikki. As if Mielikki, to him, is just a word that encompasses all that he believes in; not an actual, corporeal being. In that case, he could very well not mind (or distinguish) which of the good and/or nature deities to worship.
-Then there's the Lolth vs. Mielikki thing. Okay, some have theorized that maybe the whole thing with Catti-brie and Regis being spirited away by a unicorn were just trickies created by chaotic goddess. But here's the thing: following Breunor's death, we, as the readers, were given a glimpse of Regis, Breunor, Wulfgar, and Catti-brie in the forest paradise. It was a scene that was not shown to any of the characters in the novel. So unless Lolth decided to break the 4th-wall to deceive the readers, the only logical conclusion is that the paradise real.
-Time skip. What plans does Mielikki have (based on my above point, I'm assuming it's really Mielikki) to make Drizzt and company sleep for 18 years? And more importantly, is there a possibility of Drizzt becoming Chosen (with an upper-case C)? On the other hand, why do it before Errtu showed up and thus ruining her dear follower's reputation?
Unless . . . Lloth was involved in Errtu showing up. Think about it, Lloth is well acquainted with Errtu (Errtu helping her during the Time of Troubles). Thus, it wouldn't be surprising that Lloth is well aware of Errtu's movements. Coincidentally, some of her priestesses (Tiago's crew) have been asking for guidance. So, what better insidious plot than to guide her Drow to Errtu, expecting Tiago to triumph over the balor, and thus in the greatest irony of all (which this particular goddess oh so enjoys) make Tiago, the self-proclaimed mortal enemy of Drizzt, be the new hero of Ten-Towns.
-Drizzt's "death". Mielikki obviously had plans for him to even bother with the time skip. Plus, Drizzt most likely had some godly intervention bring him up Breunor's Climb, and I'm sure it's not simply to have him die where he's most at home because again, why bother with the time skip? Therefore, what's most likely is his "death" signifies some great transformation in him (maybe turning into a Chosen? One can only hope hehehe).
-What did Kimmuriel find out (if he did find out something, and not simply bluffing to Draygo)? I'm just dying to know what this whole business with Deities and their Chosen.
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My thoughts about everything in this book:
-I'm not sure if Drizzt is dead or not. It seems like a really lame death for such a heroic character. However, he did see Cattie-Brie so I think he will ascend to a higher level of existence somehow. I feel like he may become some sort of divine servant.
-I'm thinking that even if Drizzt becomes some sort of divine hero or something, that his story is starting to wind down. I feel this way because of the tone of the book. The entire time he is simply nostalgic and realizes he cannot deal with a world that does not have Cattie-Brie, he does not want to love another person, and he likes the friends he has now but misses his old friends. I'm not sure what else there is to do with a character that reaches that point. It's almost like everything about him has been written. Unless RAS brings back ALL the characters that have died... I'm not sure I'd want that though.
-I have no idea what prompted the year long imprisonment and the 18 year time jump except that the book starts in 1465 and the characters needed to jump ahead to the Sundering event, which starts in the 1480s.
-There is an iPod interview with RAS and another interview and review that discusses some of this stuff. In the podcast interview RAS says something like "the book is a eulogy to Drizzt". The other review seems to think that this is Drizzt's last adventure. I dunno though because the next book will feature Drizzt.
-Regarding the two goddesses I think Drizzt may be chosen by BOTH Lolth and Mielikki. There have been hints for both of them. I don't know how him being chosen fits into things though. Maybe in the next book we will have Lolth and Mielikki battling for Drizzt's soul?
-RAS is going to be writing 2 books a year for 2 more years. The one that comes out next year is supposed to heavily feature Jarlaxle.
-RAS says that Drizzt does not regard gods as anything more than a set of principles. Drizzt seems to not believe that Lolth and other gods are real sentient beings.
-Dahlia is a very messed up person. I feel sympathy for her but really, I don't know if that is the kind of person that Drizzt would ever get involved with in the first place. She's really more similar to Artemis. Both of them experienced the same things as a child. They are both broken cynical individuals. Maybe they will go off together and be broken cynical people together. Unless she tries to kill him and then he will most certainly murder her. I don't know what more there is for Dahlia. I really like her as a character but I also kinda hate her also. She makes me feel conflicted.
-Effron is really cool. If RAS wants to write about a new hero he could choose Effron, I think. He has a lot to overcome with his physical problems and his horrible childhood and being a tiefling and all. I think Drizzt inspired him to be a good person and not a bad person.
-Jarlaxle!!! I love Jarlaxle. He is just soo..... Jarlaxle-y :P Everything can use more of him. ON a side note I loved the scene in the previous book with him talking to his brother Gromph. I think it'd be interesting to see him with Quenthel, too.
-Artemis just seems kinda weary, but I'm glad he is trying to be a better person. I like him alot. Always need more Artemis too. Hopefully he won't kill Jarlaxle!
-Kimmuriel and Gromph were awesome.
-I dunno how I feel about Tiago Baenre. He is really young and a male drow but he seems to be able to order everyone around and everyone is just in awe of him. He can't be a better fighter than Drizzt or some of the other characters, so I really don't know why everyone thinks he is the "cat's meow" so to speak. Even the priestesses just scramble around doing whatever he wants. I liked that it didn't come to him dieing by Drizzt's sword, though. Him fighting Errtu was way out of left field. I don't see how Errtu thought he was Drizzt though. Looks like a demon would be able to remember someone's face?
I'm really very confused about this book to be honest. I have no idea what's in store. I do know that I am pre-ordering the next book cause I have to know what the heck happened!
Podcast : http://www.thetomeshow.com/2013/03/03/the-last-threshold-interview-with-ra-salvatore-tome-show-special/
Spoiler Review: http://www.dmfiat.com/reviews/book-reviews/the-last-threshold-review
Instead, I can see another series spin-off featuring Artemis, but with his version of Companions of the Hall, having Dahlia, Afafrenfere (can't believe I spelled this right!), Ambergris and Effron in tow.
I'd like to see something like this. They could all go on morally-gray adventures together!
First and most importantly the time skip removed the bounty on their heads. It was a way to let by-gones be by-gones.
The answer to him becomming a Chosen is a blatant yes. Just read this prophecy I highlighted the important parts (IMO) in blue. The book gave massive hints that The Sundering has heavily to do with the Gods and their Chosen which is why the Shadovar are so interested in Drizzt. Sure they didn't spell out "Chosen" but in order to "stink of your god's flavor"...that's just so obvious to mean Chosen to me.
His "death" is absolutely Mielikki's doing. Remember this all occurred on the Mielikki's Holy Day.
Aslo, refer to the previously mentioned prophecy.
The bigger question to me is whether Melikki might also grant Drizzt Cattie-Brie back though. That's something to mull over because either that or she's going to beat the hell out of him until he agrees to move on with his life.
-What was the point of the encounter with Pwent? Felt an awful lot like filler, but perhaps he will give into his vampiric nature and become a future villain of sorts.
-Drizzt won't be dying for a long long time. In fact during the Tome Show interview Salvatore expressed a bit of bitterness towards his wotc overlords, for shooting down projects that strayed from wotc's atm (Drizzt). I'm guessing we'll be hearing Drizzt stories long past the point where we're sick of him, even if it means handing the character off to other authors.
-The Chosen angle is interesting. Early reveals on the Sundering events (which of course may have been subject to change), has Ao cleaning up messes. At the end of the Time of Troubles the Tablets of Fate are smashed and Ao basically tells the gods, that if they're so desperate to circumvent restrictions placed upon them, then have a go at it. Since then the world has been rocked by traumatic events, the deaths of several gods, and an event (death of Mystara) that nearly destroyed Toril. The Sundering has Ao stepping back in now and pointing to these events as the reason why the rules existed in the first place. Post Sundering FR will have less interference from the gods and toned down powerhouses, like certain Chosen.
This could mean that various gods in the lead up are desperate to create mortals capable, of shaping certain events or elevating their particular deity, before the freeze on interference is put into place. Not sure exactly how Drizzt would fit into that, but putting him on his own, out of time and with a ruined local reputation, puts him into position to be easy prey to become one goddess or the others pawn.
It was an interesting read/view and to see Pwent in all his glory was pretty awesome. I think it was written at a time when R.A. Salvatore felt Dhalia and Drizzt would be together for a long while and could fit in any timeline but due to their break-up and really no unaccounted for time between the Charon's Claw and this book he ended up lightly touching upon the story to be officially in his main books so it could be cited and reflected upon in future novels...
And I won't spoil the other story...but I will say that although the Pwent bit was parallel it was not the full story and nor was the end of Neverwinter Tales included in The Last Threshold.
Long story short: it's not a filler, more like a required reference/short story thrown in for future cannon.
As for him being a Chosen, I do generally agree with the possibility of that happening. I was just wondering, though, how exactly does Drizzt serve Mielikki? When I think of Chosen, I think of people like Cadderly or Elminster who devote their whole life, body, and soul to their Deities. But Drizzt, oh Drizzt, while a follower of Mielikki's tenants, doesn't acknowledge Mielikki as an actual sentient being. It just seems weird to me that Mielikki favors him so much.
"You can't bring your highness there, the Hutts are gangsters they'll kill her-"
"-No different than any star system controlled by the Trade Confederation except the Hutts aren't looking for her which gives us the advantage."
18 Years ago I am sure there was a huge network of spies looking for Drizzt but now I am sure there's a small fraction. There's no doubt the fight will happen, perhaps during the companions, but it will not be an immediate occurance as the net is not as tight as it once was. Just as a hundred years previously all drow would have known Drizzt's description on sight. The hunt won't end but the search has.
As for the Chosed matter, that's a bit harder to tackle without getting into a religious debate. R.A. Salvatore writes novels with characters representing a part of himself and as such I am sure his own religious views are twisted in there. Your view of Chosen is pretty accurate for many Chosen but not for all. For a long period of time Elminster hated magic and cursed Mystra. It could easily be argued she chose him long before he chose her. Of course he was only gifted with the powers of a Chosen after he came to love Mystra and magic but he would have never gotten there had she not put him on that path.
Then of course we have the seven sisters who Elminster basically raised from a young age...
Now Drizzt describes his own religious views far differently than I know many people would expect of a Chosen or a man of faith but it's one I can very much relate to. I think, CM's forgive me, it has very much to do with the way my mother taught me how to look at God. Without getting too far into this my mother was brought up as a Lutheran which basically teaches that you find god within you and you as an individual connect to God. This is in direct contradiction to the Catholic and many other views of worship.
I'm not sure exactly what R.A. Salvatore's religious beliefs are but considering that he chose Cadderly to Worship Deneir because Deneir demands his followers question him makes me feel Salvatore looks at religion in a more Agnostic or Lutheran way and as such it translates into his characters.
Drizzt is a follower of Miellikki but he's not a preacher. He doesn't try to convert anybody or speak of her all the time...but he does represent her even if it is purely in spiritual morality. There's very little on the dogma of Mielikki but from everything I have found it seems to support internal rather than external worship and representing the forest's defense rather than fighting for the ways of the forest.
So the interpretation of Chosen has more to do with how you look at religion.
Do all the gods demand worship and praise...or do they merely request you follow the creed?
Each person would have a different answer to that based on their own religious views. Some FR gods do demand worship such as Shar but for those which aren't specified it's very much up to personal interpretation. And that interpretation is more than likely skewed by your own religious beliefs.
Hopefully this doesn't turn into a whole religious debackle. Remember while it might be ok to reference effects of real religion on the interpretation of the fictional religions all manner of that must be unbiased and non-judgemental. In this post I have merely mentioned how one religion is viewed and how that upbringing (by the way I am not Lutheran) has affected my view of the FR Religions and pantheons and how different religious experiences may cause different interpretations by different people. Any posts which follow only to provide a religious view point will be removed. If there is no way to respond without invoking religious points be sure they exist only to reference the FR Interpretations.
Yeah, drow are like cats - they loose interest quickly
The Netheril's search for the Chosen and the upcoming prophecy of the Sundering will bring all these Chosen together, maybe it will be a big ole brawl with the best Chosen winning their god some prize from Ao before he restricts the gods direct intervention upon Toril.
Is not Netheril's fear that the Shadowfell will be isolated from Toril once again, or at least the barrier will be harder to pierce?
That did seem like a hint that it has additional powers which haven't been revealed but I don't think it has to do with telportation or anything. To me that all was a direct intervention of Miellikki.
The ring I believe was described to control fire/fire based elementals and offer fire/heat protection in Charon's Claw.
On the thought of, Can Drizzt be "Chosen" from Miellikki if he doesn't "worship" her or pray to her or any thing that one would normally expect of a follower? I think this is exactly what a goddess like Miellikki would look for in her subjects. Drizzt is a good hearted being not because he is trying to please his goddess, not because he fears her wrath should he not be a good person but because that is who he is too his core. A kind, passionate, caring and merciful being. And since he does this and did this before he knew of Miellikki he simply attached her name to his previous beliefs and to me that is what makes him a better follower than many other subjects we have come across. He isn't doing what he's doing to "try" and please his goddess he is just doing what he does because of who he is.
On another note, I agree with many others apparently in expressing that I don't believe drizzt to be dead. For one thing he got hit once in the head from Dhalia's nun'chuk... and even with the added lightning shock, how many other victims have we seen suffer similar blows from her in the past three books who in many cases continued fighting. Drizzt is a warrior and a fighter above all and I don't believe, don't want to believe that he would be killed from a single knock to the fore head and a roll down a hill even if it did break his leg.
Also, we had just seen him admit to Dhalia that he couldn't and didn't want to move on from his love of Cattie Brie. I think his little mystical encounter and him seeing her was sort of Mielikkis way of getting him to finally move on with his life. She intervenes in an attempt to help him and get him to safety as well as give him a meeting with his true love, similar to what she did with Cattie Brie the night before she was taken on the unicorns back. (giving her one last night with Drizzt). I think he was brought to the forest not only to heal but also to hopefully have her tell him directly that it is okay for him to let go and okay for him to get on with his life.
Also the fact that the next book is entitled "The Companions" and has Drizzt on the cover is promising since it takes place I believe after the events of this book. August 6 needs to hurry up
I agree with you full-heartedly on the reasoning of Drizzt being a Chosen of Mielikki. I read the "sample chapter" on the site yesterday though and it sounds like he doesn't get over Cattie-Brie and move on, though.
So I wonder if Mielikki will give yet another gift to him. While resurrection and such is extremely rare in novels it's not unheard of. With technicality Mielikki has possession of all of the companions souls' so she could technically step in and intervene since the entire concept behind the sundering is Ao permitting the gods to intervene with mortal affairs again.
The Companions very well could refer to re-uniting The Companions <of the Hall> rather than the new group.