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class system and specialization
Archived Post
Member Posts: 5,050,278 Bounty Hunter
Are all fighters the same? All wizards? All Clerics? All thieves? All Rangers?
Or can one fighter play differently from another.
Do wizards specialize in a form of majic?
Do clerics have differing spec's dependent on god the worship.
Etc ETc.
It would truely be a shame if all of plug in class were exactly the same dependent on level and gear.
Or can one fighter play differently from another.
Do wizards specialize in a form of majic?
Do clerics have differing spec's dependent on god the worship.
Etc ETc.
It would truely be a shame if all of plug in class were exactly the same dependent on level and gear.
Post edited by Archived Post on
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Other classes also have similar options.
I would argue that there is just as much room for specialization in 4E as there was in previous editions.
I have to wonder at times how many of the complaints I've heard about 4E came from people comparing what was in just the PHB1 rulebook to all of the 3/3.5 rulebooks they owned, saying in effect "There aren't as many choices in that one 4E book as there are in my thirty 3.5 ones! The new edition stinks!" without actually looking at the state of the game as it is now after more supplements and rulebooks have come out for it.
There are currently around 30 classes in 4E (not counting Hybrids), according to the D&D Compendium there are 3078 feats (which includes some Dark Sun & Eberron feats that wouldn't be appropriate for Neverwinter), and among those thirty classes some 8000+ powers that they can pick between.
Fighters alone in the level 1-10 range have 214 different powers/melee exploits they might be choosing between to differentiate them from other Fighters out in the world.
Just poking at the Character Creator app for 4E D&D a level 1 Fighter currently has during creation (using only FR valid choices) the following:
One of 2 Fighter Options
One of 6 Fighter Talents
Assigns 3 skills as being trained skills
Would choose 2 At-Will powers from a list of 17
Would choose 1 Encounter power from a list of 18
Would choose 1 Daily power from a list of 17
Would choose 1 Feat from a list of 330 possible choices
And that is at level 1 without even talking about the equipment you might buy, what sort of weapon you might use, or armor you might wear, or how you might assign or decide your characters stats or race or gender or appearance.
Now I don't expect Cryptic will manage at launch to implement all of those possible different options a Fighter might have, but they have always been very good at about character customization and giving people the freedom to make their characters unique in their games so I have no trouble believing that they will be including more then enough of those powers to allow you to make sure your Fighter stands out as a character on his own and not just one of the crowd.
I really would like to see hybrid classing, but that's just me.
I would expect multi-classing well before the hybrid classes.
With multi-classing in the 1-10 range just being feats that give you another trained skill, another class ability, and then being able to take additional feats to unlock what would be in-effect re-spec'ing a class power for one from another class I can see those not being too insanely difficult to implement.
As to how soon.. Not sure. Might depend on where Half-Elfs are on the development list since the Dilletante racial feature from Half-Elfs is another way to get a different classes abilities to choose from and is mechanically I think the closest thing I can think of to the multi-class feats effects.
The Hybrid classes though... No idea. I play a Monk/Assassin hybrid (using the Dragon magazine's hybrid assassin) in a Dark Sun game and find them it be a little frustrating since I end up burning so many feat slots on "Hybrid Talent" just to get access to class features. Still fun, since it is a bit unusual but a little frustrating.
To implement Hybrid Classes I have to imagine it would take a fair chunk of mechanical work behind the scenes, a bit of UI work, and a tutorial just to explain to people what they were doing when making one. Don't think I'd expect to see it anytime soon.
I suspect that may have something to do with being stuck with one class, and also the streamlining of the system may feel like it cut down on many options that were simplified. I haven't played 4ed so I can't rightly say, but from what I read from the PHB, many of the options I saw for different classes felt kinda the same to me, and even when different, would tend to branch out in a very predictable manner (or "Builds") during the power selection across levels (assuming you wanted to pick the abilities that were most effective to your setup or "Build"), making every progression path along a certain line kinda the same.
Haha, actually, that part is no longer the issue (the wizards run out of spells part), which is one of the things I liked when I read the 4ed rules. Now ALL classes have powers, and those powers come in three varieties:
At Will: These powers can only be used any number of times without limit.
Encounter: These powers can only be used once per encounter.
Daily: These powers can only be used once a day.
I dont remember right now, but I believe Magic Missile is now an "At Will" power available for wizards.
As for the multiclassing part... unfortunetly from what I read about 4ed rules, multiclassing is VERY limited now. You're basically stuck in your choosen class all the way, with multiclassing being merely a Feat that grants you some very basic benefits based on the class, but you still remain the class you picked at level 1--only with a few things from the other class.
EDIT:
Hmm, I haven't read about hybrid classes yet. Gonna have to look that up at some point. Also, good to see they brought back Dark Sun. That was one of me favorite settings back in the day.
Thanks,
Hopeful Blackguard
Prestige Classes are no longer a part of DnD in 4e. They were replaced by Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies, both of which are beyond the levels 1-10 range this game will have at launch. Have no fear about customization though, as has already been stated in this thread there are plenty of options.
Keep in mind that how you use an ability defines your character as much as having the ability in the first place. A wizard that blasts everything with the flashiest spells he has will play and look very different from a wizard who applies his spells only in exactly the right situation. Just an example.
If this was an attempt to sound encouraging it actually had the opposite effect for me.