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tiamat still unbeatable and enemies in demogorgon are to powerful
shakinggamer
Member Posts: 66 Arc User
tiamat is unbeatable i just tried to beat tiamat took 2 and a half minutes to beat the black head as soon as i got in range to attack the green head my hp hit zero and i was dead you can not beat an enemy thatt cann kill you so quick that you do not even hava a chance to heal and if you heal as soon as you heal your hp hits zero i wish they whould put tiamat back the way it was i have 14 keys for tiamat that i can not use and demogorgoon i used to gold rank demogorgon every time but after thhe stupid mod 16 i am lucky to silver rank it most of the time i bronze rank it
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The reason people were running the scaled acquisitions incorporated K-team so much was because the gear you could purchase with the I.O.U.s made it worth it. There is ZERO benefit to the mod 16 scaling. I have stopped running all old content, and there are many who are doing the same.
I get it, you don't care about your long term players, it's obvious that you are trying to make things easier for any newer players coming along, and yes I get that with the random queues and endgame players were running through content leaving the newer players behind to die, it was frustrating for the newer players but this solution is not any better. You are alienating your existing player base for newer players instead of finding a balance.
Also if people are private queueing into content, why scale it at all? or give an option for unscaled. Something, I could see an option being good, private queues aren't going to get the bonus ad from the random, the rewards are really feable to begin with in the old content so why not through your players a bone and let them choose to run old content unscaled or scaled when in private? Scaled private would give players the chance to test their build against the content with the handicap and unscaled would enable your existing players to run content they previously enjoyed without wanting to snap their controllers in half.
Whatever you decide, you really need to do something as we are losing players left and right because of these changes, I have seen 2 midsized guilds fold since mod 16 launched because of players hating the changes. I also play on pc and we have had longer to deal with the changes there and it's a ghost town in my pc alliance. my pc guild actually lost more than half of its officers over this mod. It's just crazy and really frustrating.
@nitocris83 I know I have rambled a bit here but I do hope you will read this, it is not my most well written post, and there is a lot of frustration encapsulated within these words as I have played on console since the beginning, but as a ps4 player, primarily, I have seen a massive drop in the number of players and only the newest of players seem to be happy with this mod, with the exception of the legacy campaign weekly quests, they have been getting really good buzz and feedback from my guildies and alliance folks for helping them with the campaigns, new and old players alike are enjoying that aspect of 16.
You cannot possibly argue with a straight face that a IL 13k (the instance's entry barrier) will have the gear and stat balances required to beat Tiamat. Or manycoins for that matter. Or that a IL 16k will make it through CR's final boss.
Other dungeons and instances are actually more well balanced, and while i can see Lostmauth being a bit grueling for a lowbie, I can also see it being (eventually) doable if everyone knows the dungeon mechanics to a tee, which is currently akin to finding unicorns. All too often, then, the result is that the dungeon ends up not being worth the hassle and, yet again, lowbies will get shunned out of the content; since they can't be kicked this easily anymore, people are simply boycotting those instances or even worse, not running them. Either way, while regular dungeons could be fixed by making the reward match the risk, Tiamat is just a waste of half an hour, because it *is* matematically impossible to do.
If the instance says it requires IL 13K to enter and a team IL 13ks cannot possibly beat the instance, not because of skill, but because the math dictates, then the instance is plain broken and the touted reason @mimicking#6533 gave for scaling (making the game more skill based) is moot. Period.
And if you haven't seen the huge population drop in the game, *especially* in queued content, I'd wager you haven't been experiencing the game at all, of late. It is really, really dire, even before all the folks drop out because it's their fourth Tiamat attempt in a row.
I pretty much solo bank heist doing 8 digits in damage compared to others that are high 6 or very low 7 digits in damage. Typically bank heist and prince folly are gold for me, rarely do they end up being silver.
As for your points about lower IL characters; most players I know are going right for level 80. If a player has all boons completed, are using 950 gear, has mythical artifacts, legendary weapons, legendary neck/waist and are all R8 or higher for enchantments and runestones those said player will be around 21-22K IL. With that said, if you are running with anyone under 19K at minimum than they simply haven't done the minimum that a player should do to be ready for running dungeons.
IMO all true non-level dungeons they should be bumped up to level 80. The enemy stats should be adjusted a bit up and that should resolve many of the issues we see as we should not be scaled or scaling would be significantly less than what we are experiencing now.
IMO, scaling is actually hurting the game. If the devs never did scaling they wouldn't have needed to reduce enemies health by over 25%. That to me ruined the game, reduction of enemies health.
My first t9 we one phased orcus and no one in my group was level 80 or had all of stuff fixed/upgrade. Imagine that same group with players having appropriate stats, etc...
My two mains stand at 21k after playing since launch, with a long hiatus after skipping chult. And those boons will remain unfinished, as I won't set foot in that map. All others go about the 17-19k, and are built with knowledge of how the game stats work, which means they are well over requirements for every content in the game bar LoMM. They do lack a lot of boons, because there is a limit to the time and patience required to run a lot of those campaigns more than once or twice and I should, provided I'm not a complete idiot, be able to take my toon to the places the game says it's ok to take my toon to.
That they, along with the vast majority of the player base, struggle in a 13k instance when they can actually complete some 16k stuff doesn't lie with me, or with how my toon is built, but with Cryptic and how their game is built; it is frankly ludricous to say that the actual barrier of entry for a 13k instance is 19k without seriously examining that something isn't right with that picture and in how that has a severe negative impact in the game and its community.
I have 6 character where all have up to storm king thunder completed. I have 3 that have completed everything. Game isn't hard in the least bit, never really has been and mod 16 made it is easier IMO. The only thing that will be hard is the new trial where you need not only higher offensive stat but from what I have been told the following is required by all players in the group.
400K HP, legendary lion or griffon, 80K armor pen, crit, recovery, defense, awareness, etc... that is what is recommend for non-tanks wishing to enter the new trial and actually beat it.
The new trial is for the extreme elite players; very few will beat it. And even those that do will only run it with their core group.
IMO that trial should not even be a standard trial if its that tough. It should be an event and provide crazy good awards at the end, such as R15 enchantment choice packs, R14 weapon choice packs, legendary mount pack, etc... It also should have its difficulty increased to ensure that if you beat you truly deserve the award at the end of the trial.
What you're recommending is not what should be recommended. What's recommended is the item level the devs say upon entrance Nothing more, nothing less, and the game should be designed with the required gear should be able to, within reason, have a decent shot. And it *is* quite possible to do this and have the dungeons be hard as nails, but a part of cryptic seems uable to break the mould of making stuff hard until it isn't. Which runs both paralel and counter to "let's make interesting mechanics on our bosses", something which I was surprised to find on FBI only now that I don't have to glitch Drufi and most teams can no longer burn her in 10 seconds: she's actually damn fun to fight.
Now, to achieve success, players should not have to do is be forced to buy at least one legendary mount as a barrier of entry, nor forced to complete campaigns they don't want to repeat a fourth or fifth time. That is bad design and dreadful gatekeeping, counter to the devs purpodsed principle of putting emphasis back on skill ( which, to be fair, is actually back on some instances, completely lacking on most others) and that is extremely detrimental to the game's health. To loop it back to the OP, it is kind of ludricous that a 16 k dungeon is substantially easier to beat than a 13k one and that this is so reflects just how badly scaling is influencing the game. As easily noted by, well, the game's current health.
Everything that we see occurring in NW at the moment is all about forcing people into Social Gaming and creating groups of have and have nots. The devs may not even know this is happing as it comes down from on high so I am not pointing my fingers at them, just to clarify.
And no shade on the devs here, if anything i feel bad. A lot of stuff in mod 16 shows enough promise and attention to make me belive there's care put into it. And then all those good touches feel either rushed or hampered and badly glued together by contradictory mechanics . Scaling runs directly counter to the new stat system , for example and it's impossible they Don't know all we do. And more. And have no freedom to fix it.
Which makes it more frustrating.
You can should speak your mind in the shard area where they are talking about ToMM. Voice your concerns as an average player and let Cryptic know your stance.
We only had 9 players, and only one was a healer so I told him to focus on the 2 tanks and told the DPS to stay out of the red, use the gems and made sure everyone followed the mechanics and it was fine. Took two rounds to do it but no wipes, people died but no wipes. Only two players were above 23k, 3 were below 20k one was 16k. The 16k player was the person I put the group together for. About 5 of the group had never run the mechanics before, others had forgotten so it was pretty much a training run.
The key to beating Tiamat is in the mechanics. The 16k player explained to me that in all his failed attempts, everyone went in and killed the 5 summoners, killed Severen. Fumbled their way through the cleric phase, not knowing to pull the mobs away from the clerics. Then everyone went to black, killed it and moved to green and then repeatedly wiped until they quit, apparently no one knowing that you pick up a soul gem.
Which is what will happen if you don't respect the mechanics of that trial.
So a quick summary of the mechanics:
1. Kill summoners, make sure people pick up the green, red and blue soul gems - you don't need to worry about black and white's breath attack can be avoided.
2. Kill Severen.
3. Split up, one tank and healer go left, the other tank and healer take right with DPS split between. When mobs spawn, keep them at the spawn zone near tiamat's circle pulling them away from the cleric if they run up to her.
4. DPS avoid the red and healer keeps tank alive, and everyone avoids the breath attacks.
5. At the end of that zerg to black, reduce it to 30% health then zerg to green
6. use the green gems to nullify her breath attack - the poison cloud lingers and it will kill you - burn her down to 30%, zerg to red
7. Burn red down to 30%, using gems to protect from the breath attack. Zerg to Blue.
8. Burn blue down to 30%, using gems to protect from the breath attack, zerg to white
9. Burn white down to 30%, avoiding the breath attack.
10. When the time runs out - whatever phase you are at - it will revert to the protect cleric phase so repeat step 3 and 4
11. When Tia comes back up go back to the head you were last burning down and continue.
12. Your target is to have all heads down to 30% at the end of the attacking phase. Whether it's first, second or third attack phase I still think you can win, if it's 4th phase....maybe not.
13. Why 30%? If you burn the head down past 30% (I think it's actually 25% but 30% is safer) the head respawns with half it's life back and you have to burn it back down again.
14. The last phase, after you have gotten heads down to 30% and then protected the clerics, you can go back and kill all the heads.
15. That's it.
Hopefully that helps newer players with further attempts at beating tiamat.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
I'm afraid for the normal rank and file of NW this will be almost impossible to complete at this point.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
But, as I was saying, the strategy guide posted here is good. It also won't work for the majority of players and it won't solve Tiamat's current problems. Reason being, it only works if you private queue it, and it's still dependent on having fairly higher than standard players on the team... and of course provided you can even get your guild organized and motivated to do content that hands out very poor rewards for the amount of effort it entails.
Most people run Tiamat simply because it's on rotation on RIQ, though, and if you brave RIQ, you risk the PUG. and in Tiamat's case, you can, at the very best, pick half of your team. The other half might be undergeared, unaware of the mechanics and how they changed, and impossible to communicate with because the further into PUG you get, the higher the chance you get people who do not speak your language. In those conditions, I assure you, Tiamat is very much unbeatable. And with time being "money" in this game, one can hardly be faulted for deciding that spending 30 minutes on an instance where the odds of failure are nearly absolute is not a good way to spend it. Hence the dropouts. If people can't and/or don't want to complete your content, it might be wise to evaluate it.
There's a place for complex raids in NW, but it sure isn't on queues. ANd if you do want to incentivize that sort of content, you want to sweeten the rewards accordingly. Because feeling like it did when it was first introduced is nice and all, but I would not run LoMM if it rewarded like Tiamat.