Are the Seals "Worth" the grind?

sandukutupu

Hello, I know how much a lot of players love to count numbers on stats and all. I too like to sit down, once in a while, and figure out what I am grinding for in the games I play. Here I present you with the current armor stats for my wizard in Neverwinter. My question was; Is it worth the grind for Undermountain Seals of Deep to upgrade to the Protege Armor Set?

Comparing the stats in a spreadsheet, I compared his current IL 770 Lord Raid Armor to that of the Protege Armor at IL 980.

Increases
Power		14,784 to 18,816	4.03%
Armor Penetration		0 to 3,136	3.14%
Defense		6,160 to 7,840	1.68%
Total Buffs	8.85%
Health		59,136 to 75,264	+16,128 HP
Decreases
Critical Strike		2,643 to 2,352	-0.29%
Accuracy		1,321 to 784	-0.54%
Combat Advantage		2,196 to 1,568	-0.63%
Total Debuffs	-1.46%

At present, I don't see any point to grind seals for this "upgrade". In fact, if I only desired just a simple stat boost, I could just buy all the Red Feather Clan Armor in the AH. The biggest increase in the armor is 4% power, I can get 4% more power juggling boons or 4 rank 9 radiant enchantments. The addition HP might look good, if it was for the fact that I lose more than 16K jumping off cliffs and most bosses hit much harder than 16K in one shot. Please understand, this is my opinion, if you want to grind out top of the line, by all means go for it. Remember bandit lord is old armor from module 14 and the new protege is offered now in 16, which means before the end of this year they will be offering something "better" with +2% here and +1% there.

This is presented here as "food for thought" and nothing more. I already have my answer.

greywynd

My seals generally get turned into RP/AD and not gear to use.

rybsyngonium

There is not much to discuss. The idea posted by OP is correct in current game/gear state although 4k of power more is important for some.

I think this event can be useful for new players (<13-14k) as they ussually can do RLQ only and maybe some RIQ if they will get a party with people willing to drag others through a bit harder content and will not leave after seeing low levels only. So getting seals is not so easy for them, especially seals of the mountain.
And maybe to some willing to buy something (weapon, shirt) for seals of the deep but this will work only if the weekly cap limit is raised too for this event.
Do anyone know if seals of deep weekly cap is raised? Description in seal trader window says no (400 weekly cap).

dionchi

Seals USED to be worth the grind... as with so many of the things players are expected to repeatedly grind content to acquire, presently I'm of the opinion very few items are "worth the effort"...

This discussion should be tied into a few similar discussions like -

APPRENTICE ARMOR SET, ARE YOU SERIOUS?

My 2¢

sandukutupu

The last time I added my commentary on an older thread the moderator accused me of Necromancy and sent my post to the lower depths.

dionchi

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't... sometimes to depend on the thread, sometimes it depends on the moderator and their current state of mind I think. Personally I believe moderators should spend a little more time attempting to combine threads that seem to run along a common theme (as in the one I used), I'm not a moderator (and wouldn't care to be one as thankless a job as it is) and I don't make the rules moderators are expected to follow but that’s neither here nor there,.

No thread should ever be mothballed simply because it’s “old”, if it is relatable to the topic of discussion or current circumstances being discussed, regardless of when it was first posted it should be acceptable and accepted unless it is in violation of the TOS relating to civil behavior. Or at least that’s my opinion.

dionchi

I miss the old days when a player got a rather good bonus for acquiring a full set of specific armor and how sometimes that armor set complemented and worked with different sets of armor worn by other players for an even greater bonus...

Sorry just waxing nostalgic ~

To be truthful I consider very few sets "worth the grind" and currently no sets worth a hard grind, particularly since in what I consider to be a very short period of time they're all going to be obsolete anyway.

I mean it's not like we can stack our current set of gear into the next upcoming set of gear for a bonus attribute or something like that.

Never have been nor will ever be a fan of the endless HAMSTER grind...

sandukutupu

It was just recently, a new player in game told me that gear wasn't dropping for them. I looked into the AH and found no low level gear. Turns out they placed most of the gear in the bounty stores. I wasn't aware when they did this, I assume it must have been this mod or the previous. At least, that gives the bounty stores more to sell, than just an outdated professions pack.

Long ago, when they introduced "repairable" or restoration armor in SKT using Voninblod, I didn't bother getting that armor either. I tried WoW for about 6 to 8 months and that was one feature I never liked. I know in the real world things wear out, guns run out of bullets, and items break. I just didn't like the idea introduced three years after playing. Worse yet, it wasn't spending my gold (as in WoW) it was a new invented currency only found in one place. Black Ice shaping was ok and not the same as restoration armor.

When I look at getting new armors, I look at design (yes I also bought cars on appearance too) and if it doesn't appeal to me that is a major strike against it. Then I look at the stats, what bonus is it giving me? Next how do I have to obtain the new armor? If it is a straight up zen purchase, I will pay out the cash for it, assuming it is both appealing and useful. I like the one time purchase over the long grind. If I must grind then it better be "worth it", they better not come out with new armor for at least 6 months making this armor obsolete.

Currently there is a comedy skit in a movie by "The Onion News", titled the Bates 4000, this is how bad the armor is quickly replaced in this game. I would post a link here, to the clip, one I did find is probably pirated and contains adult language, so I didn't. But it expresses my sentiments about armor upgrades. I agree with @dionchi and I like armor with a general purpose, Undermountain armor and weapons only work a bonus with that area and nowhere else. Refining a new weapon from green to orange and buying cubes of augmentation every module is no fun.

I would love to see the weapon we could continue to modify, because it is unique to our character. I currently have a character who is chasing her father's stolen sword and the Drow thief that stole the sword. I know it will never happen, Cryptic has never thought outside the box, and the one time they really tried, we got Acquisitions Incorporated instead. At this point, I know better than to ask.

wintersmoke

sandukutupu said:

The last time I added my commentary on an older thread the moderator accused me of Necromancy and sent my post to the lower depths.

I like the lower depths. The trolls are yummy!

wintersmoke

dionchi said:

I miss the old days when a player got a rather good bonus for acquiring a full set of specific armor and how sometimes that armor set complemented and worked with different sets of armor worn by other players for an even greater bonus...

Sorry just waxing nostalgic ~

To be truthful I consider very few sets "worth the grind" and currently no sets worth a hard grind, particularly since in what I consider to be a very short period of time they're all going to be obsolete anyway.

I mean it's not like we can stack our current set of gear into the next upcoming set of gear for a bonus attribute or something like that.

Never have been nor will ever be a fan of the endless HAMSTER grind...

One of the reasons that items like that went away, was because the devs couldn't get the RNG right...

greywynd

I thought it went away when they dropped new content and once in the dungeon, everyone switched to the old gear and steamrolled the dungeon.

rybsyngonium

sandukutupu said:

At this point, I know better than to ask.

Well, I asked them - one of questions for last stream was mine.
"Would you consider adding upgrade functionality of our older equipment to higher statistics (higher ilvl)? Especially artifacts and artifact equipment (belt, neck)?"

The context for this question is important (you can find in link) but anyway the answer was No. They prefer to create new gear each time.

sandukutupu

hitchslapped said:

sandukutupu said:

When I look at getting new armors, I look at design (yes I also bought cars on appearance too) and if it doesn't appeal to me that is a major strike against it. Then I look at the stats, what bonus is it giving me? Next how do I have to obtain the new armor? If it is a straight up zen purchase, I will pay out the cash for it, assuming it is both appealing and useful. I like the one time purchase over the long grind. If I must grind then it better be "worth it", they better not come out with new armor for at least 6 months making this armor obsolete.

personally i detest the idea of gear being a zen purchase. the zen store should primarily be for transmutes, with mounts, companions, wards, companion upgrade token packs, and lockbox keys as 'acceptable' options. if they ever adopted the 'upgrade gear token' method for keeping older gear relevant stat-wise ( like with STO's upgrade tokens to give T5U ships ), or for upgrading epic mounts to legendary mounts ( but, say, at a lesser equivalent cost, and without the combat power ), so that older gear could be 'almost but not quite' as good as newer gear when it comes to stats, or players don't have to depend on a legendary mount with a given stat bonus being available on the AH, i could see a place for *those* being on there, provided they were AH tradeable. but actually selling *gear* for zen? hell no, that's outright p2w behaviour.

for me, the issue isn't objecting to grind. it's the merger of grind, with rng. grinding out a currency to buy gear, so that you know exactly how long it's going to take you to get the gear, and can plan accordingly, is far preferable to p2w zen-bought gear or rng-grind merger. if the devs don't want to up the seal cap from 1200, that's fine, if they think 1200 seals would be earned too quickly for it to be the cost of a gear piece, let us exchange seals for another currency, which we then use to buy the gear. that way they can prevent people getting the gear so quickly that they run out of content that they feel there's a point running, and make players happier by subjecting them to less rng when it comes to getting gear.

as for how gear looks.... for me, that's only a consideration in terms of " am i going to come back to this gear as a transmute at some point, or am i going to have to spend AD to transmute it to something less ugly ", how it looks has no bearing on whether or not i'm going to equip it, the stats and equip bonuses are the only things that decide that.

I understand, it would set up a pay to win scenario unless it was just a level 1 appearance change. I would still pay for armor, I don't have to change out. Maybe the Champions system has me a bit spoiled but I like setting a costume and not having to worry about my next set of armor making it look bad. For those who never played Champions, I can put on a Kevlar vest and it is just an icon on my GUI nothing but my stats are altered.

dionchi

wintersmoke said:

dionchi said:

I miss the old days when a player got a rather good bonus for acquiring a full set of specific armor and how sometimes that armor set complemented and worked with different sets of armor worn by other players for an even greater bonus...

Sorry just waxing nostalgic ~

To be truthful I consider very few sets "worth the grind" and currently no sets worth a hard grind, particularly since in what I consider to be a very short period of time they're all going to be obsolete anyway.

I mean it's not like we can stack our current set of gear into the next upcoming set of gear for a bonus attribute or something like that.

Never have been nor will ever be a fan of the endless HAMSTER grind...

One of the reasons that items like that went away, was because the devs couldn't get the RNG right...

So they said... but by "get it right" I personally think the armor was too good giving players a great deal of advantage, particularly with one set of (paladin) armor enhancing player buffs when used in combination with another set (guardian fighter) armor and the Powers That Be - decided they couldn't' allow that to continue.

greywynd said:

I thought it went away when they dropped new content and once in the dungeon, everyone switched to the old gear and steamrolled the dungeon.

^ Yeah, that...

Some players like the concept of building a signature set of gear and like myself have continued to drop that set on new gear sets to maintain that identity... but of course at 5K a piece - for every time a new set needs to be transmuted it sometimes it tended to get a bit pricey, but often worth it IMO. For example the (orange) Ravenloft gear the set that made everyone look like walking dreamsicles... I couldn't wait to transmute/replace that gear... As far as I was concerned that was an embarrassingly ugly set of gear. ¢¢