Exchanger Stones in M16.

bor

I created the discussion "Exchanger Stones...". You do this in module M16. I saw it on the TEST server. Thanks. But! You need to choose. Or you can change absolutely any stones. (one stats\double stats\triple stats). Then the stones can be assigned to the account. Or you can change the stones on the stats. But then they should not be assigned to the account. You can not do it as done now on the test. People will be deceived! People will be disappointed! People will be angry! People will be leave! It's important to me that you see this message.
Sorry for my language.

rickcase276

The unfortunate part, as has been said before, their system for stores does not differentiate between binding statuses. So there is no way that they can give unbound enchants/runestones back, as they would have to give unbound back for those that are bound too, if they did it would adversely affect the economy. At least they are account bound and not character bound, that would be worse.

callumf

rickcase276 said:

The unfortunate part, as has been said before, their system for stores does not differentiate between binding statuses.

And its been said before that item bound status [account/character] IS checked every time you try and see a BTC item/stone on the Auction House so I kind of dont believe that bit mate

Not calling you out, just that it doesnt hold much water for me

greywynd

Auction House and the bank are also not a store/vendor.

callumf

greywynd said:

Auction House and the bank are also not a store/vendor.

Fair point

rickcase276

And we do not know how much old code that is running around in the systems that govern vendors etc. And how much of it, if they would change it to be able to detect both, would adversely alter other parts of the game code. All in all, it may have made better sense for them to completely junk all the old code and put all new back in, but that was also probably not feasible for their allotted time to get the mod done.

havlocke

The casual player who isn't going to be speculating on the market is not going to care that its BtA. The only people that this is going to impact on are the people who are planning on buying and selling stuff with the foreknowledge that they have now - that there is going to be a vendor. Buying Dreads now for 20k each and planning on swapping and selling them for Whatever for 500k. To people who don't know.

I'd be upset if it was BtC, but its not. It's BtA and that's more generous than most games out there already.

bor

havlocke said:

The casual player who isn't going to be speculating on the market is not going to care that its BtA. The only people that this is going to impact on are the people who are planning on buying and selling stuff with the foreknowledge that they have now - that there is going to be a vendor. Buying Dreads now for 20k each and planning on swapping and selling them for Whatever for 500k. To people who don't know.

I'd be upset if it was BtC, but its not. It's BtA and that's more generous than most games out there already.

Once you make the exchange, you'll be with those stones forever.Forever with double stats. For example. More modules will be released. What if you need one stat stones in the new modules? Will you pay again?

greywynd

Exchange vendor, at least to my understanding, will be a temporary thing after the mod launches.

rickcase276

For me on my main, I already have for the most part the enchants that I need for my arbiter. All I will need to exchange are the silveries I have for the runestones I will need on my pet. It is all and good that basically the enchants you use for righteous/DO are the same you need for arbiter.

havlocke

bor#8277 said:

havlocke said:

The casual player who isn't going to be speculating on the market is not going to care that its BtA. The only people that this is going to impact on are the people who are planning on buying and selling stuff with the foreknowledge that they have now - that there is going to be a vendor. Buying Dreads now for 20k each and planning on swapping and selling them for Whatever for 500k. To people who don't know.

I'd be upset if it was BtC, but its not. It's BtA and that's more generous than most games out there already.

Once you make the exchange, you'll be with those stones forever.Forever with double stats. For example. More modules will be released. What if you need one stat stones in the new modules? Will you pay again?

Hmm, so you can keep chasing the BIS and sell the HAMSTER to all those poor plebs who don't know better. Awesome.

Yes, they'll be with you forever, just like with every other piece of gear you pick up. Just like every other game out there. Mods become BtC the moment you stick them on in SWTOR, weapons/gear become BtC or BtA the moment you put them on ships in STO. Most games make it BtC. This will be nothing different. And if the game changes so drastically (like now) where particular stats become obsolete, then I expect them to do exactly what they are doing, offering an exchange.

bor

havlocke said:

bor#8277 said:

havlocke said:

The casual player who isn't going to be speculating on the market is not going to care that its BtA. The only people that this is going to impact on are the people who are planning on buying and selling stuff with the foreknowledge that they have now - that there is going to be a vendor. Buying Dreads now for 20k each and planning on swapping and selling them for Whatever for 500k. To people who don't know.

I'd be upset if it was BtC, but its not. It's BtA and that's more generous than most games out there already.

Once you make the exchange, you'll be with those stones forever.Forever with double stats. For example. More modules will be released. What if you need one stat stones in the new modules? Will you pay again?

Hmm, so you can keep chasing the BIS and sell the HAMSTER to all those poor plebs who don't know better. Awesome.

Yes, they'll be with you forever, just like with every other piece of gear you pick up. Just like every other game out there. Mods become BtC the moment you stick them on in SWTOR, weapons/gear become BtC or BtA the moment you put them on ships in STO. Most games make it BtC. This will be nothing different. And if the game changes so drastically (like now) where particular stats become obsolete, then I expect them to do exactly what they are doing, offering an exchange.

In different games in different ways. How to solve developer. In WoW, the stone cannot be removed from armor. Maybe we should do this. Or would that be stupid? And all leave this world. We have a stone exchanger. Now we have the binding of the stone to the account. After an exchange. OK! I'm just talking about changing any stone to any stone. That's fair. Otherwise, after the constant changes of the game people will be fooled. People spent money to buy stones. After the new modules, these stones may become unnecessary. People should be able to exchange stones for others. That will become necessary. They already paid for the stones. Lots of money! The developers have already received money on this. They don't have to pay for it again. Developers should look for new people who haven't paid for the stones yet.

adinosii

The exchange is not relevant to me, as I do not anticipate I will need it. However, the real issue is with people with, say, only a single weapon enchant, like Feytouched, and a single armor enchant, like Negation (not an unusual combination, by the way). Now, such a player might for example want to exchange those enchants for Vorpal and Barkshield, but.

1. The price of those enchants has dropped from its highest point, and the player might not be able to afford a replacement of the same level. This is an outright (and maybe a significant) loss.
   
2. If the exchange vendor is used, you get BtA enchants. That's fine for now, but what if in a few months we hear "We have noticed that 90% of the player base are using the same Armor and Weapon enchants, so in order to make the other choices viable, we are....." If the vendor is gone by then, you are stuck, and in a worse position than before, as you cannot exchange your enchants with other players.
   
3. If the exchange vendor is only temporary, it is a bit unfair toward players that may have taken a break from the game and come back only after it is gone.
   
4. If the exchange vendor is permanent, it basically makes all the different enchants equally valuable, which is fine for those chasing the current "BiS" meta, but it will reduce ward sales, as players will only need a single set of enchants and can exchange those as needed. This could be "solved" by introducing a new "better" set of enchants, which could not be obtained through exchanging, but that would introduce yet another set of problems.
   

It really looks like a "no-win" situation.

bor

adinosii said:

The exchange is not relevant to me, as I do not anticipate I will need it. However, the real issue is with people with, say, only a single weapon enchant, like Feytouched, and a single armor enchant, like Negation (not an unusual combination, by the way). Now, such a player might for example want to exchange those enchants for Vorpal and Barkshield, but.

1. The price of those enchants has dropped from its highest point, and the player might not be able to afford a replacement of the same level. This is an outright (and maybe a significant) loss.
   
2. If the exchange vendor is used, you get BtA enchants. That's fine for now, but what if in a few months we hear "We have noticed that 90% of the player base are using the same Armor and Weapon enchants, so in order to make the other choices viable, we are....." If the vendor is gone by then, you are stuck, and in a worse position than before, as you cannot exchange your enchants with other players.
   
3. If the exchange vendor is only temporary, it is a bit unfair toward players that may have taken a break from the game and come back only after it is gone.
   
4. If the exchange vendor is permanent, it basically makes all the different enchants equally valuable, which is fine for those chasing the current "BiS" meta, but it will reduce ward sales, as players will only need a single set of enchants and can exchange those as needed. This could be "solved" by introducing a new "better" set of enchants, which could not be obtained through exchanging, but that would introduce yet another set of problems.
   

It really looks like a "no-win" situation.

Agreed. But. If the player has already bought all these stones he should not buy more. It is a good innovation if it can change the stones. He already paid! Let him pay for something else. For VIP, key, style, and many still any. Let the stones pay for new players. Who haven't paid yet. The game changes. I want to bought me did not lose relevance over time. I paid my money! Charge me for something else. There are other things in the game that cost money. Or don't change the game already never!

namelesshero347

I won't be using the exchange also. I have multiple toons covering dps, tank, and heals. So I have a variety of enchants that I can make due by shuffling things around. The only people who need the exchange are the ones who have one well-geared toon and they stack enchants. They are now screwed if the enchants they had picked to stack is not favorable in mod 16.

Getting BtA echants is a steep price to pay, but it is the best solution. While unbounded exchanges may appear to be good for players now, it will cause lots of problems down the road.

havlocke

adinosii said:

The exchange is not relevant to me, as I do not anticipate I will need it. However, the real issue is with people with, say, only a single weapon enchant, like Feytouched, and a single armor enchant, like Negation (not an unusual combination, by the way). Now, such a player might for example want to exchange those enchants for Vorpal and Barkshield, but.

1. The price of those enchants has dropped from its highest point, and the player might not be able to afford a replacement of the same level. This is an outright (and maybe a significant) loss.
   
2. If the exchange vendor is used, you get BtA enchants. That's fine for now, but what if in a few months we hear "We have noticed that 90% of the player base are using the same Armor and Weapon enchants, so in order to make the other choices viable, we are....." If the vendor is gone by then, you are stuck, and in a worse position than before, as you cannot exchange your enchants with other players.
   
3. If the exchange vendor is only temporary, it is a bit unfair toward players that may have taken a break from the game and come back only after it is gone.
   
4. If the exchange vendor is permanent, it basically makes all the different enchants equally valuable, which is fine for those chasing the current "BiS" meta, but it will reduce ward sales, as players will only need a single set of enchants and can exchange those as needed. This could be "solved" by introducing a new "better" set of enchants, which could not be obtained through exchanging, but that would introduce yet another set of problems.
   

It really looks like a "no-win" situation.

Yes, its a no win situation simply because you cannot help everybody all the time. The fact that they are allowing us to exchange stones is ALREADY A PLUS.

1) The price of enchants goes up and down depending on the perceived effectiveness of the enchant. Well, nothing we can do about that is there. At least we are allowed to swap over stuff this time

2) If they decide a few months down the track that they are going to nerf "x" because its too popular then they might bring back the exchange vendor again. Why not, they did it this time. And if everything is BtA, then this won't effect the economy - which is the whole reason they made it BtA remember.

3) If its unfair towards people who missed the boat then WTF do you think they can do about that. I wished I'd invested in Microsoft 30 years ago too but nobody is offering to sell me stuff at 1990's prices.

They are allowing us an exchange. They could have just as easily said "tough luck". The only restriction is that its BtA. Which is only going to effect people who were going to manipulate the market for their own mercenary reasons. I can live with that.

krumple01

adinosii said:

The exchange is not relevant to me, as I do not anticipate I will need it. However, the real issue is with people with, say, only a single weapon enchant, like Feytouched, and a single armor enchant, like Negation (not an unusual combination, by the way). Now, such a player might for example want to exchange those enchants for Vorpal and Barkshield, but.

1. The price of those enchants has dropped from its highest point, and the player might not be able to afford a replacement of the same level. This is an outright (and maybe a significant) loss.
   
2. If the exchange vendor is used, you get BtA enchants. That's fine for now, but what if in a few months we hear "We have noticed that 90% of the player base are using the same Armor and Weapon enchants, so in order to make the other choices viable, we are....." If the vendor is gone by then, you are stuck, and in a worse position than before, as you cannot exchange your enchants with other players.
   
3. If the exchange vendor is only temporary, it is a bit unfair toward players that may have taken a break from the game and come back only after it is gone.
   
4. If the exchange vendor is permanent, it basically makes all the different enchants equally valuable, which is fine for those chasing the current "BiS" meta, but it will reduce ward sales, as players will only need a single set of enchants and can exchange those as needed. This could be "solved" by introducing a new "better" set of enchants, which could not be obtained through exchanging, but that would introduce yet another set of problems.
   

It really looks like a "no-win" situation.

You bring up good points and things I've been wondering about.

My guess is, I would place a bet on this too. That the NPC enchantment exchange will be temporary. Just look at how they handle the events. Most are time based so if you aren't playing every day tough luck and if you miss the NPC, tough luck. They don't seem to care if a player is on vacation and miss the NPC exchange or if a player temporarily quit and decides to return to the game. They don't care.

You bring up a good point about them doing further nerfs to enchants based on a meta or popularity route for builds. This can screw many players if they decide to purposely make the meta which is now bta something else so you can't exchange. This is NOT outside the scope of what they have done in the past. So I can totally see them doing something like this which will make a lot of players not happy.

But over all, I don't really care because enchants don't have the impact anymore that they did mod 15 -

havlocke

namelesshero347 said:

I won't be using the exchange also. I have multiple toons covering dps, tank, and heals. So I have a variety of enchants that I can make due by shuffling things around. The only people who need the exchange are the ones who have one well-geared toon and they stack enchants. They are now screwed if the enchants they had picked to stack is not favorable in mod 16.

Getting BtA echants is a steep price to pay, but it is the best solution. While unbounded exchanges may appear to be good for players now, it will cause lots of problems down the road.

Actually, they aren't screwed if the enchants they picked are not favorable in Mod 16, they are fine. That's what the exchange vendor is about. They will be screwed if the enchants they've now BtA'ed become nerfed down the track in Mod 17 or Mod 18

adinosii

Considering that the enchantment exchange vendor is gone from the latest Preview build, this discussion might be irrelevant. Yes, we can exchange Eldritch runestones, Insignia of Leeching and a few other things that are totally obsolete, but the general exchange is gone.

As I said before, I don't care one way or another, but if this goes live, at least it will soleve the problem of people getting a BtA enchant they might regret later.

plasticbat

adinosii said:

Considering that the enchantment exchange vendor is gone from the latest Preview build, this discussion might be irrelevant. Yes, we can exchange Eldritch runestones, Insignia of Leeching and a few other things that are totally obsolete, but the general exchange is gone.

As I said before, I don't care one way or another, but if this goes live, at least it will soleve the problem of people getting a BtA enchant they might regret later.

For me, getting rid of it (for now) is a good decision because they will have option to do something.
Option 1: do nothing.
Option 2: do a proper exchange vendor in the future. i.e. unbound to unbound, BtA to BtA, BtC to BtC.

cdnbison

As I said on the Preview forums, I have no problem with the 'complete' Enchant Exchange vendor going away. It'd be nice if you could exchange for the new enchants coming out, though, even if they are BtA. There is no current way to get any of the new enchants, short of (I'm guessing) the new lockbox, so it'd be nice to at least have a chance to get a few of them to round out stats where required.

namelesshero347

If the exchange is really gone, then that is a good call. It would have been nothing but trouble with unbounded exchanges wreaking the enchantment market and BtA exchanges hurting only newer players who hasn't learned to use the AH yet.

mamalion1234

ΤΗΕ enchantment exchange is back.

plasticbat

mamalion1234 said:

ΤΗΕ enchantment exchange is back.

Do you mean "enchantment to runestone" is back?
Or "enchantment to enchantment" is back?
Or both?

mdarkangel

Both, along with Armor and Weapon enchantments. It was added back in on Monday, I believe.