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My state of the game . . MOD 16 testing edition mid-stream

ragnarz2ragnarz2 Posts: 194Member Arc User
After taking 4 classes to 80 my take away is as follows:
  1. The implementation of the vision is not close to being done. Whatever that vision might be. Sadly it was not shared.
  2. The weekly radical shifts is classes appears to be trial and error. Just look what they are doing tomorrow and how it unbalances races and devalues enchantments and legendary mounts. It reeks of panic and bad management.
  3. Personal choice (or its illusion) is being removed from the game. Starting stats are fixed. Feats are binary and mostly useless bc you can play without them and not notice a difference most of the time. Boons can be ignored and you wont notice much of difference.
  4. Most classes resemble their predecessors in name only
  5. At-Wills have almost no value atm
  6. Paladin tanks can be successful using only 2 buttons. Feels like punishment.
  7. Barbarian is all about encounters which just feels wrong.
  8. Lots of quests and mobs are buggy or broken
  9. Scaling is going to punish people with low IL
  10. Forced group play which by itself is not a bad thing is going to alienate a lot of people


In conclusion, Cryptic took a very flawed game and is replacing it with a simplified system where high TTK and limited options are going to put many people to sleep.

What has been your experience so far?
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Comments

  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Posts: 1,080Member Arc User
    ragnarz2 said:

    After taking 4 classes to 80 my take away is as follows:

    1. The implementation of the vision is not close to being done. Whatever that vision might be. Sadly it was not shared.
    2. The weekly radical shifts is classes appears to be trial and error. Just look what they are doing tomorrow and how it unbalances races and devalues enchantments and legendary mounts. It reeks of panic and bad management.
    3. Personal choice (or its illusion) is being removed from the game. Starting stats are fixed. Feats are binary and mostly useless bc you can play without them and not notice a difference most of the time. Boons can be ignored and you wont notice much of difference.
    4. Most classes resemble their predecessors in name only
    5. At-Wills have almost no value atm
    6. Paladin tanks can be successful using only 2 buttons. Feels like punishment.
    7. Barbarian is all about encounters which just feels wrong.
    8. Lots of quests and mobs are buggy or broken
    9. Scaling is going to punish people with low IL
    10. Forced group play which by itself is not a bad thing is going to alienate a lot of people
    In conclusion, Cryptic took a very flawed game and is replacing it with a simplified system where high TTK and limited options are going to put many people to sleep.

    What has been your experience so far?
    1. I think the vision was: let's make the game harder, devalue pretty much everything so people have to start spending again, and make progression fairly meaningless.
    2. You hit it on the head here "It reeks of panic and bad management."
    3. I agree. They could have gone about this balancing act of theirs in a completely different manner.
    4. +1
    5. With the next path they will have more value....strictly because encounters/dailies have been devalued further.
    6. The whole game feels like a punishment. What did we do?
    7. See how you feel after today.
    8. While this should eventually be fixed gamewide, I'm finding it hard to believe it will be 100% fixed for release.
    9. Scaling is going to punish everyone. I get the idea but people upgrade to feel progression. The notion that long term players would want to go back to running longer shores/spiders/etc because of being scaled is just wrong.
    10. Luckily I have a group. But people who struggle now will probably struggle further later.
  • cabar1cabar1 Posts: 53Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    It is even more obvious than before: still none of the developers understand the Rogues! NOR DO CARE about any of it ANYMORE. SO SADDDDDDDD!
    99 lines of code on the wall, 99 lines of code, add one line, compile it again....... 113 lines on code on the wall
    113 lines of code on the wall, 113 lines of code, rewrite one line, compile it again.......
    Wait For It
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Posts: 76Member Arc User
    ragnarz2 said:

    After taking 4 classes to 80 my take away is as follows:

    1. The implementation of the vision is not close to being done. Whatever that vision might be. Sadly it was not shared.
    2. The weekly radical shifts is classes appears to be trial and error. Just look what they are doing tomorrow and how it unbalances races and devalues enchantments and legendary mounts. It reeks of panic and bad management.
    3. Personal choice (or its illusion) is being removed from the game. Starting stats are fixed. Feats are binary and mostly useless bc you can play without them and not notice a difference most of the time. Boons can be ignored and you wont notice much of difference.
    4. Most classes resemble their predecessors in name only
    5. At-Wills have almost no value atm
    6. Paladin tanks can be successful using only 2 buttons. Feels like punishment.
    7. Barbarian is all about encounters which just feels wrong.
    8. Lots of quests and mobs are buggy or broken
    9. Scaling is going to punish people with low IL
    10. Forced group play which by itself is not a bad thing is going to alienate a lot of people
    What has been your experience so far?
    I have been on preview as well with two classes. Fully agree

    1. spot on analysis
    2. "the pendulum swings back and forth in our attempts to maintain balance" - a statement from one of the devs, seems to be applicable to all of MOD 16 (except the campaign story line, which is good). Testing is a waste of time, because of the the erratic swings
    3. only choice left is how much money (or months of playtime) you want to spend to increase the tier of the 30+ enchants per character. For new players anything beyond tier 10-11 will either take ages, or cost hundreds of dollars
    4. yup
    5. might be better with the last patch (dont know for sure, quit testing because of 2.).
    6. Poor pallies, loved to play them in MOD 15, still broken on preview
    7. Poor barbs (former GWF), fluid fast paced combat with great AoE has become boring with long phases of kiting, waiting for encounters to recharge
    8. Practically all instances in RLQ, RIQ and RAQ broken. Mostly undoable for players with the IL intended for the instance, one-shotting all over the place (even from "normal" mobs), contrary to the promises that i) "healing will become more meaningful" (cannot heal a dead player and cannot pre-heal a player at full health) and that ii) the current state on live, where players are "either at full health or dead" will be improved.
    9. spot on, scaling does the opposite of what it is supposed to do (err, dont really know what its supposed to do - quite obviously no plan at all on part of the devs, only the repeated shout "your feedback is appreciated", but a direction or plan is still not in view)
    10. Yeah, bye bye casuals ...

    I really wish the Devs success, but there seems to be no coordination at all. The Devs are frantically working individually, constantly changing things, not seeing how it affects other stuff, constantly introducing new bugs, so that the number of bugs and (very likely) unintentional behavior ("outliers") seems to remain constant from one build to the next. I have the highest respect for all players that have the stamina do go through this wobbly mess and still are active in preview providing feedback. I have given up at the moment. Might look into things, when they are more stable, but likely that will be 3 months after April 23th...
  • bobo#5090 bobo Posts: 146Member Arc User
    I've played for about 30min after copying a fresh lvl 70 pally over first impressions:

    1 new monsters- ettercaps cool

    2 new potions that don't have a "can only use one at time" thing cool, and needed IMHO downside, any potion that has a timer to it, needs to be usable from the inventory. It is a huge PITA to swap a potion, use it, then swap my stones/healing potions back in when I wanna use the potion of giant strength, or speed

    3 reduced power on rad enchants???? why, this makes no sense, darks no longer give movement bonus, but comp influence instead??? seriously??? My pally on xbox is slooooooooooooooowwwww with a +20.6 movement bonus. Now I'm gonna have to waste precious ability points on dex for movement so I can keep up with groups? Or am I gonna be spending gobs of time farming gold, or ad for potions of speed that I'm gonna have to swap out with a healing potion every 15min just so I can move relatively fast?

    4 Weekly cap on seals of the crown needs to go(live and preview). Also go back to the 100 seal per 1k rad exchange. This is huge nerf as it is now. A 400 seal weekly cap, and I can only get 1k rad per 300 seals, total BS.

    5 paladin class still mostly NFG from what little I've been able to play. Smite is now essentially an at will with a cool down, and it's a really big one when you have huge mobs.

    I'll continue testing on preview, but so far it looks like I'll be setting the game down for awhile once it mod 16 hit xbox, unless some serious changes are made, or unmade...
  • wemerywemery Posts: 162Member Arc User
    I truly hope this can all be fixed by april 23 but in the back of my mind i see a all new hunt gate :(
  • bobo#5090 bobo Posts: 146Member Arc User
    Want to add, we need to be able to roll our abilities form the get go(at toon creation). That was a huge part of D&D, and now they're taking it out. At the very least if we started before mod 16 we should be able to keep our abilities as they were or just a little above the base stat they're giving us. 9 str for a pally is garbage. A paladin is a holy warrior, WARRIOR that means fighting, then healing. I can't carry heavy HAMSTER armor around with only 9 str. At 9 str I'd be limited to leather armor(thank god there's no str requirement in this game like BG had), and would never be able to tank in leather armor that wasn't magical as all get out.

    Heck if you got really lucky on the rolls, you could have every ability score at 15, or higher before racial bonuses are factored in. This cookie cutter stuff needs to go away, just like divinity for the mod 16 paladins...
  • krumple01krumple01 Posts: 481Member Arc User
    bobo#5090 said:

    Want to add, we need to be able to roll our abilities form the get go(at toon creation). That was a huge part of D&D, and now they're taking it out.

    Agreed. I don't think there are any players out there who think this auto set Ability Scores is a great idea. It is sad that they decided to do this. They could have at least gave us the rolling mechanic that has always been there but include a button for those players who don't know what they are doing that gives them the suggested scores. But let us min/maxers have a chance to design our class how we want.

    The counter argument here for these scores is that they already do nothing now anyways. So having 9 strength vs having 20 or 30 is EXACTLY the same. So having a 9 is no different than having 30 points in the new mod. The bonus reward for having high scores does so LITTLE that if they decided to give us the ability to set our own scores we wouldn't even notice a difference between two characters with different scores.
    bobo#5090 said:


    At the very least if we started before mod 16 we should be able to keep our abilities as they were or just a little above the base stat they're giving us.

    No as a veteran, seeing the changes to what the scores are now, I would want to re-roll my scores. I checked on my Cleric, and I don't want any more wisdom, I already have too much and it is now going to be a HAMSTER throw a way Ability Score. If I can re-roll my Cleric in the new mod, I would ditch the wisdom for sure.
    bobo#5090 said:


    9 str for a pally is garbage. A paladin is a holy warrior, WARRIOR that means fighting, then healing. I can't carry heavy HAMSTER armor around with only 9 str. At 9 str I'd be limited to leather armor(thank god there's no str requirement in this game like BG had), and would never be able to tank in leather armor that wasn't magical as all get out.

    Look at the bonus. From 9 to 30 would give you basically 0.1% difference.



  • bobo#5090 bobo Posts: 146Member Arc User
    Oh yeah almost forgot, the boon revamp, talk about terrible. I liked the campaign specific boons. Now theyr'e just bland, and everyone will have the same boons in each class.
  • krumple01krumple01 Posts: 481Member Arc User
    bobo#5090 said:

    Oh yeah almost forgot, the boon revamp, talk about terrible. I liked the campaign specific boons. Now theyr'e just bland, and everyone will have the same boons in each class.

    Well the bonuses are basically doing nothing substantial. We did some testing where we chose none of the boons and one with full boons or the most we are allowed to take and saw basically no difference in performance. The bonuses are so little compared to the huge numbers you get from total combined gear that the extra you get from boons is like adding a speck of dust to your clothes expecting to gain weight when you step on a scale.

  • ragnarz2ragnarz2 Posts: 194Member Arc User
    krumple01 said:

    bobo#5090 said:

    Oh yeah almost forgot, the boon revamp, talk about terrible. I liked the campaign specific boons. Now theyr'e just bland, and everyone will have the same boons in each class.

    Well the bonuses are basically doing nothing substantial. We did some testing where we chose none of the boons and one with full boons or the most we are allowed to take and saw basically no difference in performance. The bonuses are so little compared to the huge numbers you get from total combined gear that the extra you get from boons is like adding a speck of dust to your clothes expecting to gain weight when you step on a scale.

    confirmed. i did testing w/o boons and w/boons. almost no difference. same with feats.
  • revenantptrevenantpt Posts: 5Member Arc User
    Mod 16 as of last patch to me:

    Cons:
    1. Boons are useless, going to 80 on my cleric i didn't slot a single one.
    2. At-wills do close to no dmg, they are only usefull on my cleric or on the barbie with hidden daggers buff.
    3. Some of the feats relate to a single encounter you will never use, btw you can lvl to 80 and never slot them either makes no difference.
    4. Won't even comment about class features.
    5, We don't need to worry about stats re-roll because they gives us no noticeable changes like they did on previous mods.
    6. Companions do all the work now, i literally go in on my paladin / fighter, use 1 encounter, block and let my comp kill everything because it does more dmg than i do.
    7. Paladins (tank/healer) should gain divinity when they use at-wills.
    8, Gameplay now is just tedious ...
    9. AD farming appears to be getting a nerf again ...
    10. I won't talk about professions because i haven't delve into it, but i'm not hearing good stuff about it.
    11. End game players shouldn't be penalized and get downscaled to run a dungeon besides Lair of the Mad Mage, makes no sense...
    12. They didn't want us to solo dungeons but as you can see on youtube people already found ways to do it as a dps ...
    13. Some groups are not running a healer or tank because again there are ways around it.
    14. I can already imagine the bad environment random q's with random people will create if you are not pulling your own weight ...
    15. Still a lot of bugs to fix and every week they pretty much rework the entire system (combat / companions/ classes).



    Pros:
    1. No time gated campaign.
    2. Beautifull graphics.
    3. A lot of gear options.
    4. Introdution of Challenge Campaigns
    5. The option to try until success while upgrading a enchantment.
    6. Cleric only : ty for the width buff to searing light best thing you could have done.


    I still feel like they should add a delete all read mail, but thats just me.
    Some weapon/armor enchants need to be buffed or removed from the game.


    Overall at this point in time i can't have positive thoughts about mod 16 there's too much work to be done in only 22 days, but hey they did say most of the feedback is positive on a stream a couple weeks ago so i guess i'm the only one beeing negative about this... oh well
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Posts: 542Member Arc User
    I was testing on preview, but the revamps on powers are happening so frequently now I don't have the time to invest in testing and re-testing every week. As of today, I'm prepared to just wait and see what the final result will look like come 4/23, and do my own testing / evaluating my existing toons then.

    I can (and will happily) ignore over priced packs. I haven't bought any packs since the class packs were removed. I won't start now, even if the pack was 1/2 of what it is set to cost on 4/23. It is laughably overpriced.

    Of more concern to me is that the companions issue has not been addressed. All unbound companions are still listed as BtoC on preview. I know the devs have been promising - for weeks - that they will fix this. That it is not their intention to make this a new "feature" of the game. But they haven't addressed it yet, despite all the patches that have been implemented, and we are less than 4 weeks out from 4/23.
  • krumple01krumple01 Posts: 481Member Arc User
    edited April 1
    The thing is, if the 23rd is the release date, they will release the new mod on that day regardless of the bugs, non-working features or problems. They will just use the following weeks to introduce fixes or completions that the release didn't have. So don't keep thinking that the new mod needs to be bug free or fully working before the 23rd. Those who say it needs to be haven't been around long enough to know that Cryptic has never actually accomplished that in any mod release.
  • benyrbenyr Posts: 117Member Arc User
    Completely agree, ive now taken all 8 classes to 80 and completed undermountain in full on all of them, and youre pretty much spot on. Id only add the the boon choice is also an illusion bar the master boon, as by the time you have around 48 boon points youve picked exactly the same boons on all classes.
    I also think the scaling and new mechanics will kill pug queue's. As the number of failed runs increases the level of toxisity will increase, with people blaming one another until you get to a situation like pvp is currently whereby you cant find a run without at least one person being completely obnoxious. Even more so than currently people will only ever run in premade groups, gating dungeon runs from new players.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,468Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    ragnarz2 said:

    After taking 4 classes to 80 my take away is as follows:

    1. The implementation of the vision is not close to being done. Whatever that vision might be. Sadly it was not shared.
    2. The weekly radical shifts is classes appears to be trial and error. Just look what they are doing tomorrow and how it unbalances races and devalues enchantments and legendary mounts. It reeks of panic and bad management.
    3. Personal choice (or its illusion) is being removed from the game. Starting stats are fixed. Feats are binary and mostly useless bc you can play without them and not notice a difference most of the time. Boons can be ignored and you wont notice much of difference.
    4. Most classes resemble their predecessors in name only
    5. At-Wills have almost no value atm
    6. Paladin tanks can be successful using only 2 buttons. Feels like punishment.
    7. Barbarian is all about encounters which just feels wrong.
    8. Lots of quests and mobs are buggy or broken
    9. Scaling is going to punish people with low IL
    10. Forced group play which by itself is not a bad thing is going to alienate a lot of people
    1. Partially correct. We know some some of the reasons why those changes were made, and suspect what some of the other reasons are (Like simplification in order to make the game easier to maintain). As for "not close", well, there are some pretty serious bugs, and scaling has some serious issues. I do think, however, that the game will be playable in 3 weeks. There is no chance they will be able to fix all the bugs, but it will not be any worse than some of the previous mods on release day.
    2. The 1000:1 change creates a big difference between races (and gear) that gives a percentage boost versus a flat stat boost. Anything that was balanced before is no longer. This change feels well, half-finished.
    3. The annoying change to boons you used to get +500 points which gave you 1% - now you get 250 which gives you 0.25%. Sure, "something" is better than "nothing", but setting things up so that progress hardly matters is somewhat demotivating. Personally I would like to see boon bonuses quadrupled.
    4. I haven't tried all classes that much, for those I have tried, that's pretty much the case. My favourite class (Cleric) is nothing like what it used to be. How that will affect my playtime and enjoyment remains to be seen.
    5. At-wills, well....for some classes they are just fillers to be used until you wait for your encounters/dailies, but at least for Arbiter Clerics they are an essential part of the rotation,
    6. No comment, except that saying I do not expect to be playing my Paladin.
    7. It is a shift, but it's in line with the other classes now. Whether that is good or bad is partially a matter of personal preference.
    8. Indeed.....massive bugs, including some that were found back in February. (To be fair, most of the bugs that were foiund during the closed playtest did get fixed reasonably quickly).
    9. Scaling is problematic, The biggest issue I have is the following: Let's say you are a "new" L70 with minimal gear Nwo, you are too weak for the 70-80 content, so you continue playing in "easier" areas and campaigns. However, you cannot avoid leveling up, and eventually you will reach L80, but perhaps still only with subpar gear. Now, if you get scaled down at that point, you may be too weak for the L70 content you could (barely) handle earlier.
    10. Not sure what you mean by "Forced group play" - I see no significant difference there, except that it is now much, much harder to solo content that was not designed to be soloed in the first place. Normal casual/solo play of the solo content is just as soloable as before (assuming decent gear, of course).
    Waiting to see how bad things will be.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,744Member Arc User


    14. I can already imagine the bad environment random q's with random people will create if you are not pulling your own weight ...

    One good thing, there will be no more AFK and multboxing farmers.

  • bobo#5090 bobo Posts: 146Member Arc User
    ragnarz2 said:

    krumple01 said:

    bobo#5090 said:

    Oh yeah almost forgot, the boon revamp, talk about terrible. I liked the campaign specific boons. Now theyr'e just bland, and everyone will have the same boons in each class.

    Well the bonuses are basically doing nothing substantial. We did some testing where we chose none of the boons and one with full boons or the most we are allowed to take and saw basically no difference in performance. The bonuses are so little compared to the huge numbers you get from total combined gear that the extra you get from boons is like adding a speck of dust to your clothes expecting to gain weight when you step on a scale.

    confirmed. i did testing w/o boons and w/boons. almost no difference. same with feats.
    Wow, that is a gianormous middle finger to everyone that ground out the campaigns, or bought tokens to get the boons. That's some total bs right there. In mod 15 and earlier you couldn't hardly do any damage in SKT, CA, Chult, Barovia(as a solo pally at least) without the boons. Guess I just finish Chult to unlock CODG, and f the boons...
  • bobo#5090 bobo Posts: 146Member Arc User
    krumple01 said:

    The thing is, if the 23rd is the release date, they will release the new mod on that day regardless of the bugs, non-working features or problems. They will just use the following weeks to introduce fixes or completions that the release didn't have.

    All software has been like this since the beginning. Even the $20k plus CAD/CAM software I use at work always has bugs that needs fixing after the latest version comes out. Windows is the same way, heck pick a piece of software, and I'm sure it's had bugs at launch, requiring patches/updates to fix. It's the nature of the beast.
  • brendaxnl#4453 brendaxnl Posts: 11Member Arc User
    Ive spended a good amount of time on preview myself.. and all i can say is, im moving to another game if this all goes live.. Ive been looking around on social media, twitch, YouTube.. and today i even saw that Northside announced that he moved on to ESO.. After galactic underwear, garlaanx and so many more of their content creators are just done.. I dont have any hope left.. There is zero positive feedback... Maybe from newer players, but from their end game players, there is no positive feedback.. yet they dont listen!.. This game is small allready and they only had a few content creators.. They left!... Its just done with this game... and its sad.. i play since day one.. And i wish they just cancel the entire mod, but they wont and even if they would, its allready to late... Its real sad they ruined everything they made this game fun!...
  • mrimsogoodmrimsogood Posts: 108Member Arc User
    They are intentionally trying to kill the game
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 941Member Arc User
    What s/he said there^^^

    No dev wants to kill a game on purpose, that just doesn't make any sense anywhere.

    And yes - for the top end BiS maxxed out 18k iL players powercreep was a problem. [5% of player population?]

    For the rest of us mostly NW is great fun as it plays right now. Sure I can solo most content outside of Epic Dungeons on a GWF at 14.5k iL. But that is how it should be - those Rank 13 enchants took months to earn, the legendary companions, the purple insignia, the rank 13 bonding stones. All those things took over two years play to accumulate.

    Honestly, if combat goes really slow the player base will fall dramatically. Nuff said. No one wants to spend five minutes killing each group of mobs in a dungeon making the whole run take over an hour [for example]. People have real lives and disconnects and internet failures.

    I remember the WoW Dungeons which took 2+ hours to finish. I walked away...
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Posts: 110Member Arc User

    What s/he said there^^^

    No dev wants to kill a game on purpose, that just doesn't make any sense anywhere.

    And yes - for the top end BiS maxxed out 18k iL players powercreep was a problem. [5% of player population?]

    For the rest of us mostly NW is great fun as it plays right now. Sure I can solo most content outside of Epic Dungeons on a GWF at 14.5k iL. But that is how it should be - those Rank 13 enchants took months to earn, the legendary companions, the purple insignia, the rank 13 bonding stones. All those things took over two years play to accumulate.

    Honestly, if combat goes really slow the player base will fall dramatically. Nuff said. No one wants to spend five minutes killing each group of mobs in a dungeon making the whole run take over an hour [for example]. People have real lives and disconnects and internet failures.

    I remember the WoW Dungeons which took 2+ hours to finish. I walked away...

    The sad part is that after playing the new mod a decent amount I see no way to reduce the time to complete dungeons without taking out mobs or keeping some of the over powered companions/artifacts in the game. The major concern I have is that I don't want to play a 20 minute ESOT, a 2 hour CR, a 1 hour FBI, a 1.5 hour MSP. All of those I see being in that range and the only way to make it shorter is to remove part of the content in those dungeons. Right now everything to complete is double the normal amount of time on preview in most cases. If you have a player who doesn't know how to play the event your going to double the time needed to complete for each one of those players. The question I see is no longer can you beat the dungeon. With 2-3 players I think you can beat any of them. They question now is how long until your done. If you have a 4 hour CR will we get more than 20k rough AD and some gear that is no longer useful? Right now you have to run CR about 20 times to get 1 decent drop. Even if you double the rate of return and have to run it 4 times I see that taking 2x to 3x more time to get the same rate of returns.

  • bobo#5090 bobo Posts: 146Member Arc User
    I would definitely be walking if FBI takes any longer than it does. FBI almost always takes at least 30-60min to run as RAQ. As long as I can create a runic key, it's worth the time, as I typically can pull 40k out of it. It would be more if salvage were still around.

    My first run at CRL took about an hour IIRC, and we had to go at it 2x with the group I had cuz we ran out of time the first day we went at it. I was the only 1st timer in there, and I didn't die once cuz we communicated with mics.

    MSP always takes at least 30min, cuz no one wants to try and avoid opening portals.

    I'm really displeased with the changes that are being made to enchants, comps, and artifacts. I've spent over $200 over the last year just getting my pally to a good place(still don't have very many r13-14 enchants), and a ton of time on getting the resources for the upgrades and such. Now it looks like the enchants are going to be worthless, and the comps are gonna be so OP that my pally might as well stand there holding his shield(yay super fun... NOT). My pally on preview has the naked wayward wizard at rank 25 LOL

    I think my biggest complaint is the amount if effort it takes to get the latest end game gear, and then it's not even good enough for the next mod. Like I said, I ran CRL the one time, and have the dull sunsets, but everyone I talk to says they're not worth the effort to restore/refine for mod 16. Same goes with farming k-team for the il 600 gear, no point to it, as it takes too long to put a group together for k-team, and then you have to do it over 16 weeks to get all the gear. Thanks, but just no. That's way to much of a grind.
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 2,675Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    What s/he said there^^^

    No dev wants to kill a game on purpose, that just doesn't make any sense anywhere.

    And yes - for the top end BiS maxxed out 18k iL players powercreep was a problem. [5% of player population?]

    For the rest of us mostly NW is great fun as it plays right now. Sure I can solo most content outside of Epic Dungeons on a GWF at 14.5k iL. But that is how it should be - those Rank 13 enchants took months to earn, the legendary companions, the purple insignia, the rank 13 bonding stones. All those things took over two years play to accumulate.

    Honestly, if combat goes really slow the player base will fall dramatically. Nuff said. No one wants to spend five minutes killing each group of mobs in a dungeon making the whole run take over an hour [for example]. People have real lives and disconnects and internet failures.

    I remember the WoW Dungeons which took 2+ hours to finish. I walked away...

    When I left EQ1 back in 2001/2002, it was a raid to the Plane of Hate that finally did it for me. I played a Cleric so I *had* to be there to try to get the purple armor pieces I needed. A raid that ran from roughly 5pm on Friday to about 7:30am on Saturday morning was the last straw. Multiple wipes, and at the end I was the only cleric able to successfully camp out before the final wipe. It took close to two hours to rez 60 people one at a time, sneaking around dragging corpses to a safe place so I could rez them, then I had to get a port out myself from a wiz. This was in the days with no mounts, the only way to teleport was to get either a wiz or druid to port you, and you couldn't accomplish anything meaningful in less than 2 or 3 hours. A typical night for a cleric was camping a room for 6-8 hours doing the same "stand, heal, sit, meditate" cycle over and over and over and OVER again. Soloing was an utter impossibility. So finally I left. NWO is literally the first MMO I played since, having come here from NWN2. The fact that it was ostensibly solo-friendly for casual gamers was what drew me in, as well as the Foundry. You might imagine what I think of Mod 16 and the Foundry sunset.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Posts: 662Member Arc User
    Mod 16 will reduce AD income significantly per hour played.
    * Dungeon runs will be slower
    * REQ is gone so one random queue less to make money from
    * RAQ now has CR, Cradle and Tong in it in addition to the old dungeons, so he likelihood of getting a workable RAQ run will be less. It will be harder to hit edemo or get a RAQ Tong run.

    And everyone will need a lot more AD to catch up on gear.. my rough estimate is 40M AD to get back to BiS, assuming no need legendary mount needed.
  • ragnarz2ragnarz2 Posts: 194Member Arc User

    Mod 16 will reduce AD income significantly per hour played.
    * Dungeon runs will be slower
    * REQ is gone so one random queue less to make money from
    * RAQ now has CR, Cradle and Tong in it in addition to the old dungeons, so he likelihood of getting a workable RAQ run will be less. It will be harder to hit edemo or get a RAQ Tong run.

    And everyone will need a lot more AD to catch up on gear.. my rough estimate is 40M AD to get back to BiS, assuming no need legendary mount needed.

    It looks like BiS will have diminished value so there will be no real motivation for most people. Leg mount has been severely devalued along with enchants and comps. Boons and feats don't matter. I have done testing without them and not noticed a difference.

    A clear understanding of why some segment of the base play is not understood.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,468Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    And everyone will need a lot more AD to catch up on gear.. my rough estimate is 40M AD to get back to BiS, assuming no need legendary mount needed.

    well, let's see - let's assume you are a M15 BiS player.

    You need an average of 86 Preservation wards for each of your...what 26 enchants? That's 22360 Zen or 11.180.000 AD. If you bought the wards during a 40% off sale, that's only 6.7 million AD.

    for each of the 24 (I might be off by one or two) regular enchants, you need a MoP, Rank 7. You can farm them, or buy from the bazaar for 125.000 AD. That's 3 million AD - less if you have a VIP discount, or buy during a sale.

    To get your Armor and weapon enchants from R13 to R14, you need 30 UMoPs and 6 UES. I'm at work, so I cannot check the current price of those.

    You also need various stones and stuff to rank up your new weapons, artifacts and artifact items (neck, belt). I'm assuming you will farm the items - if you are impatient and want to buy them that will add to the cost.

    Then what, ah yes you need a ton of RPs, of course ... expensive if you have to buy gems.

    And yes, the insignia. upgrading all your insignia is expensive - in particular if you have the really expensive ones like Brutality, and you might need to upgrade a set of new companions too.

    So yeah, you might not be too far off on your 40M estimate.

    However, the good news is that there is no need to. R15 enchants give so little extra compared to R14 that it's really not worthwhile to upgrade. Upgrading companions from Epic to Legendary just for the bolster value is a waste as the difference is only 0.5%.

    Yes, it's worthwhile to upgrade your bonding runestones from R14, but that's about it.
    Waiting to see how bad things will be.
  • bobo#5090 bobo Posts: 146Member Arc User
    So it sounds like all the enchants are worthless, as well as comp upgrade tokens? The only thing worth anything now is bonding runestones? That's one heck of a middle finger to everyone that spent time, and or money trying to get everything up to it's max rank. I've been playing for a little over a year on console, and my pally is still only 15k IL with 2 leg mounts, one leg comp, 2 r 14 enchants, and mostly r9-10 enchants after that.

    What really annoys me is I spent ton of time and a few coins trying to get to il 13k to open up the REQ, only to find that I couldn't run them till they were unlocked in their respective campaigns. Now it's all meaningless if I'm reading everything right...
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