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personal feelings about mod 16

demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,165Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
i can compare mod 16 to this..

you get married to a lovely woman/man and 5 years later they wake up and say in a few months they will be turning into an elephant.
then they say.. please don't be angry, they understand they can no longer go to dinner with us at our favorite places or even ride in the car with us, but they love us and want us to stay. please dont get angry but we can no longer make love or have children because they are changing into a creature that is no longer human.

so what do you do?

stay married and be unhappy and unfruitful?
or get divorced?

My first ever build was stealth based regeneration build.... then lifesteal and regen got nerfed.
My second build was stealth based + lifesteal + mobility and guess what...
stealth is broken/revealed if you attack in pvp you are seen
lifesteal is being removed from the game as is
mobility is being nerfed into the ground for me
stealth feats i used are bring removed from the game.

(looks at the neverwinter ring on his finger)

I want stealth reveal to be removed from pvp in mod 16
that is my demand.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
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Comments

  • cdnbisoncdnbison Posts: 697Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Ok, you've made your demand. Now, if you could, answer this question:

    Why?

    It's easy to make a demand. Now back it up with *why* this change needs to be implemented. Use facts, show gameplay effects that such a change is having. Just saying that you liked it / wanted to play that way isn't worth much. One - or even a group - of forum posts complaining isn't worth much if you can't put something beyond your feelings behind it.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,716Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 14
    Got married to a lovely woman and 5 years later, she wakes up and says she has a few disease. In order to live longer, in a few months, she will have a big surgery. The surgery is so serious that the face, the body, the voice will be changed. Our life style will be changed too. She does not give me any choice to change her mind. She thinks she has to change. I don't have much options:

    1. have a big argument and divorce her now
    2. figure out how to do the surgery better for her if she listens.
    3. wait for a few month to see the outcome and then decide if I can deal with it and how to deal with it.
  • rangerreekrangerreek Posts: 13Member Arc User
    Comparing playing this game to marriage O.o ?? How about this:

    You buy a car. This is the car you have always wanted. It's fast, it's sleek, and it handles well through the curves. Years go by, the car gets older, and sarts having problems. You take it to the mechanic and they say, "Yeah, we can keep fixing the problem every year, or couple of months, and it will sound great and run ok. You have been one of our best customers, and we really really appreciate your business. However, you are going to eventually have to get a new car..." Now you are upset because you know that the car will eventually breakdown beyond repair, nothing lasts forever, and are uncertain that you will like a new car. So you go out you test drive a couple, and are really unhappy because they aren't YOUR car. Then something happens. You find a car that you "settle" on, granted it isn't your old car, and you think maybe you could get along with it. After a while you grow accustomed to the new car and it really doesn't matter anymore.


    Also, this is a video game. If you have never played a game that you absolutely loved and had it turned against you consider your self lucky. We are consumers. A lot of people have put just as much time, effort, and money in as you. Are we happy about the changes? Certainly not. But hopes and dreams only get you so far. If you want to be heard then give them CONSTRUCTIVE feedback and criticism. Otherwise, do what gamers have done in the past and find a new game to play. The circle will inevitably repeat itself.
    Fight with honor, die with glory!
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,165Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    if i want to play mortal kombat or street fighter from the 1990's it will still be the same game.
    enjoyable, fun with friends, I paid for a product to work as the product did in the arcade at my home.

    I put money into neverwinter with the same hopes that it would remain enjoyable and what i put time money and energy into, but its a new game.


    they turned street fighter into ecco the dolphin...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,165Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    cdnbison said:

    Ok, you've made your demand. Now, if you could, answer this question:

    Why?

    It's easy to make a demand. Now back it up with *why* this change needs to be implemented. Use facts, show gameplay effects that such a change is having. Just saying that you liked it / wanted to play that way isn't worth much. One - or even a group - of forum posts complaining isn't worth much if you can't put something beyond your feelings behind it.

    i have already tested many things in mod 16
    instant stealth removal with at will attacks should not exist in mod 16 because if it does tr will suffer greatly. (pvp)

    pve is a different story, but stealth should still grant 100% change of critical attack, and it does not.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • kreatyvekreatyve Posts: 9,538Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator

    if i want to play mortal kombat or street fighter from the 1990's it will still be the same game.
    enjoyable, fun with friends, I paid for a product to work as the product did in the arcade at my home.

    I put money into neverwinter with the same hopes that it would remain enjoyable and what i put time money and energy into, but its a new game.


    they turned street fighter into ecco the dolphin...

    That is because those games are single player. Neverwinter is an MMO. Show me an MMO older than 5 years old that is the same as it was at launch, please. I'll wait.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I mainly play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
    kuI2v8l.png
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,165Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    if i want to play mortal kombat or street fighter from the 1990's it will still be the same game.
    enjoyable, fun with friends, I paid for a product to work as the product did in the arcade at my home.

    I put money into neverwinter with the same hopes that it would remain enjoyable and what i put time money and energy into, but its a new game.


    they turned street fighter into ecco the dolphin...

    That is because those games are single player. Neverwinter is an MMO. Show me an MMO older than 5 years old that is the same as it was at launch, please. I'll wait.
    you asked.. here it is..

    knightonline


    this game is the same... no powers got nerfed things were added... not massively changed...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,165Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    kreatyve said:

    if i want to play mortal kombat or street fighter from the 1990's it will still be the same game.
    enjoyable, fun with friends, I paid for a product to work as the product did in the arcade at my home.

    I put money into neverwinter with the same hopes that it would remain enjoyable and what i put time money and energy into, but its a new game.


    they turned street fighter into ecco the dolphin...

    That is because those games are single player. Neverwinter is an MMO. Show me an MMO older than 5 years old that is the same as it was at launch, please. I'll wait.
    you asked.. here it is..

    knightonline


    this game is the same... no powers got nerfed things were added... not massively changed...
    i can list more,,,,,

    they had their graphics improved... server improved... active gm presence in game at all times....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • thalendor75thalendor75 Posts: 1Member Arc User
    So um - why are they so much better - and why haven't they got your attention?
  • manufracturemanufracture Posts: 85Member Arc User
    If your wife turns into an elephant, get a girlfriend and enjoy married life with pudding on the side :)
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,455Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Stealth (more specifically, invisibility) being removed when you attack is in line with the source material. Attacking also removes the attacker from stealth.

    Funny how that rule is in the rule books.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • pakatapoespakatapoes Posts: 28Member Arc User
    Mod 16 is good ,the problem in my opinion is they shouldn't have touch the powers and companions.
    And people wouldn't be so upset , I got millions invested in my companions and inchants and now most of them are going to be worthless in mod 16 . In my opinion if they gave us mod 16 and 2 new classes , people would have been more happy even knowing the balance problem of classes.But right now it feels like I just bought a car and next day the goverment announced that they will outlaw cars in a week
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 857Member Arc User
    I have mixed emotions about M16... it is more like... when your mother-in-law drives your brand new Porsche off a cliff.

    I have no opinion on PvP because my head isn't in that.

    I love we finally get to go to the Undermountain in Waterdeep.
    I hate we get generic builds, for generic game mechanics, that none but the developers actually understand.
    I love the massive damage we can do.
    I hate the lack of challenge the massive damage creates.
    I love the ability of placing "any type" of companion item on my companions.
    I hate the lack of placing my adventure items on my companions.
    I love there are no Power Points to collect.
    I hate the generic boons and point system.
    I love the rogue feats are so easy to chose from.
    Oh boy! Do I hate the cleric feats and how they lock you into just one possible build.

    play.gif
  • nunya#5309 nunya Posts: 933Member Arc User

    kreatyve said:

    if i want to play mortal kombat or street fighter from the 1990's it will still be the same game.
    enjoyable, fun with friends, I paid for a product to work as the product did in the arcade at my home.

    I put money into neverwinter with the same hopes that it would remain enjoyable and what i put time money and energy into, but its a new game.


    they turned street fighter into ecco the dolphin...

    That is because those games are single player. Neverwinter is an MMO. Show me an MMO older than 5 years old that is the same as it was at launch, please. I'll wait.
    you asked.. here it is..

    knightonline


    this game is the same... no powers got nerfed things were added... not massively changed...
    You just proved @kreatyve's point: That game is NOT the same as it was at launch. There is no MMO that is the same five years later as it was at launch. None. Not one. In fact, in the EULA/TOS that you agree to for this game (and other MMO's), you specifically acknowledge that the game will change over time and accept this as a condition of playing this game (and other MMO's). I get that you're not happy with the changes. I'm not either right now. The only choices any of us ever have are either to continue to play the game or quit.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,165Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    kreatyve said:

    if i want to play mortal kombat or street fighter from the 1990's it will still be the same game.
    enjoyable, fun with friends, I paid for a product to work as the product did in the arcade at my home.

    I put money into neverwinter with the same hopes that it would remain enjoyable and what i put time money and energy into, but its a new game.


    they turned street fighter into ecco the dolphin...

    That is because those games are single player. Neverwinter is an MMO. Show me an MMO older than 5 years old that is the same as it was at launch, please. I'll wait.
    you asked.. here it is..

    knightonline


    this game is the same... no powers got nerfed things were added... not massively changed...
    i can list more,,,,,

    kreatyve said:

    if i want to play mortal kombat or street fighter from the 1990's it will still be the same game.
    enjoyable, fun with friends, I paid for a product to work as the product did in the arcade at my home.

    I put money into neverwinter with the same hopes that it would remain enjoyable and what i put time money and energy into, but its a new game.


    they turned street fighter into ecco the dolphin...

    That is because those games are single player. Neverwinter is an MMO. Show me an MMO older than 5 years old that is the same as it was at launch, please. I'll wait.
    you asked.. here it is..

    knightonline


    this game is the same... no powers got nerfed things were added... not massively changed...
    You just proved @kreatyve's point: That game is NOT the same as it was at launch. There is no MMO that is the same five years later as it was at launch. None. Not one. In fact, in the EULA/TOS that you agree to for this game (and other MMO's), you specifically acknowledge that the game will change over time and accept this as a condition of playing this game (and other MMO's). I get that you're not happy with the changes. I'm not either right now. The only choices any of us ever have are either to continue to play the game or quit.
    i did not prove wrong.. the core of the game and its attacks skills encounters are all the same. new attacks were added for higher levels but nothing lower level was taken away. all quests are intact plus more for higher level players. neverwinter has changed how everything functioned core up more than once. mod 6 was bad and here we go again 10 mods later losing things that were fundamental to our characters.

    i can see items changing yes... but to gut the game and change the boons feats encounters and more.. its not the same game, where as the game i posted is the same game at heart to its core down to every last game mechanic.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 941Member Arc User
    Grand Daddy Ultima Online looks pretty much exactly the same since it did in 1999. As to gameplay? The essential sandbox feel is the same. The ability to personalize your character and abilities is the same. You canstart of as a mage and retrain as a fighter for example. But heck yes some of the mechanics have changed over the years :)
  • tazz4nowtazz4now Posts: 168Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I can't comment much on other MMO's but I can in regards to using console games as an example......a single console game may not change "after" you buy it, but when a popular console game gets any sequels added, all of them change something in every "sequel", this to me is equal to an MMO changing things in their "mods", since this game and other MMOs are ever evolving, they eventually have to change to keep up with other titles (again, no different from a console game)

    If you like this game, you will grumble, maybe take a break and play something else, but then come back, try it out again and adapt to the new ways, like it or not it is here to stay. Right now it's still on preview, this isn't live yet, so go to preview and help fix problems you find or feel need fixing or don't seem to work well, but tell them "why" you feel it needs fixing, they are listening and trying to "fix" things, they have admitted things are broken, there are many bugs, they need community help, but, also remember it "is" changing and helping needs to be done with that in mind.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Posts: 4,151Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Well.. Ive played alot of mmos and while there are many many changes in all of them, I will admit, this one is pretty far reaching..

    Most massive changes in most mmos are actually add ons, adjustments come much quicker in alot of other mmos Ive played (both ups and downs.. so nerf cycle and buff cycle is alot more continuous in those games.. ) but this game , to be frank has had a disadvangate for some time.. they barely have enough staff to operate it.

    While I still like neverwinter.. I mostly see the reason for the changes is the time consuming nature of fixing the game is no longer feasible with the current staff.

    So who to blame? I dont know, I dont see thier #s, do we not spend all that much, so its not warranted, or does parent company suck the well dry to fund other things.. who knows.

    But ya, Im not super thrilled with alot of changes for mod 16.. and while change in every mmo is inevitable.. most of the time its a balancing act. of give and take to players..

    There isnt that much to be super thrilled about for mod 16.. Almost everything they did, was a nerf in one aspect or another.. While I like the idea they did for the companions.. overall I hate they way the implemented it.

    Again.. I DONT really blame the devs.. I blame the company, they simply are not going to spend that much assets on the game to make it exactly what I would like per se..

    Oh well..



  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,124Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 15
    kreatyve said:

    if i want to play mortal kombat or street fighter from the 1990's it will still be the same game.
    enjoyable, fun with friends, I paid for a product to work as the product did in the arcade at my home.

    I put money into neverwinter with the same hopes that it would remain enjoyable and what i put time money and energy into, but its a new game.


    they turned street fighter into ecco the dolphin...

    That is because those games are single player. Neverwinter is an MMO. Show me an MMO older than 5 years old that is the same as it was at launch, please. I'll wait.
    No games are the same, but most are recognisably the same game (usually improved a bit). NW with these changes is not recognisably the same game and to many people worse than it was at launch. It also with the removal of the old dungeons a while back and the foundry now arguably has LESS content than it did before which is rare for a MMO.

    There have been some nice QoL improvements over the years and are some in Mod 16 but they feel like an "Apart from that Mrs Lincoln how did you enjoy the play ?" when put against the complete destruction of solo gameplay in the name of balance and improving teaming. Some of us really don't care about balance, we care about fun, cutting everybody off at the knees in the name of balance is not the right way to go.

    I've so far played my 4 favourite characters on preview solo, 1 is completely unplayable (combat HR), 2 are playable (just barely) but no fun whatsoever (CW/DPS GF), and one I can just about live with (GWF). I find it laughable that in the name of balance, my 15K GWF/HR started out with the GWF marginally better and now in Mod 16 the GWF is at least 10x better, so much so that an encounter in a solo mission that takes <20 seconds barely scratched with the GWF/barb I can't actually do at all with the HR who does it in less than 10 seconds unscratched in Mod 15.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,165Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Let's get this covered right now... I dont blame the devs.... I know mmos change.. but what changes and how is what I am saying is just not right.


    In mod 16 we won't need clerics or paladins. In mod 16 new players are going to have a difficult time getting up to speed if they try to grind out levels and campaigns. The only people that will benefit from mod 16 are those that start fresh lvl 70 characters and use campaign buyout packages. Everyone else is at a loss... I am going to go over 5e rogue guides and rule books. Until mid 16 drops I will just farm rp.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Posts: 4,151Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Its the new stat system, you will need to min/max everything to be useful as a dps at all. which makes it a actually worse experience for new players.. not better per se. Even a Tank will need SIGNIFICANT stats to be semi useful.

    Cant we all just go back to mod 2 .. and cap all enchants at r10..

    Besides the stats, my next biggest complaint is YET another needless rank advancement.. come on..

    You do yourselves no favors when you keep doing this, I know why they do it.. selling power = money .

    I actually get more frustated with rank advancements then anything else.. I took a year off, ground out 60 million to get a set of r14s.. , then they want me to do more.. boring , hate it.

    Im sure r16 is coming. then when does it stop r20? r30.

    Clearly they cant think of other ways of making money, that is thier #1 money maker so they keep doing it.





  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 857Member Arc User
    All MMOs change over time and @kreatyve I will give you one better. Back when ArenaNet made that POS Guild Wars 2, the developers stated they would no longer change or do anything with the original game. They automated the maintenance program to run and swore no more updates or changes. Then they added new pets, weapons, etc.. They kept coming back even with GW2 up and running. We never got more content like we wanted but the game still plays well. Most recently they gave us better graphics and more storage. The population is low but there is no lag and we have groups get together for PvP weekends. While you can play Guild Wars 2 for free, the original remains buy to play, keeping those gold spammers to a minimum. @demonmonger I didn't know Knight Online was still running.
    play.gif
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Posts: 4,151Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    GW2.. base is free to play.. Im pretty sure you have to buy the add ons.

    They dont sell power like cryptic.. which has its good and bad points i guess.


  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 857Member Arc User

    GW2.. base is free to play.. Im pretty sure you have to buy the add ons.

    They dont sell power like cryptic.. which has its good and bad points i guess.

    I was just using Guild Wars original to illustrate that even when companies "swear" the game won't be changed, they do it anyway.

    Off the topic: GW2 was "buy to play" and you still have to buy the "content expansions" to get the whole game. The game is too different from the original and that is why they lost a chunk of the fanbase. It is like they cloned the game mechanics and play style of this game or others like it. There are diamonds to buy and loot boxes to open. I still play Guild Wars original because it is free with the purchase of the game. After that you could get spend more on cosmetics. But there are no loot boxes or diamonds. Also I hook up with friends on Facebook to run old content with on the weekends. Some of the issues with the original is lack of communication (no mail system), limited friends list, and guilds are not as popular as they use to be.
    play.gif
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Posts: 4,151Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I played gw2 for about 3 months at the original release or something , because friends played.. I went back when I went on a year long break from neverwinter.. for like 6 more months.. got all the new mounts opened (except for griffon.. started to, but since the darn combination of bunny, manta and dino could do everything the griffon could do, I didnt see the ultimate point .. and I was up to whether I wanted to take the next grinding step into legendaries.. and decided , naw.. what was the point in the end.

    While overall the game is lovely and the combat is semi ok.. It was like .. super easy up to the real grindy stuff, there is no natural progression at all. Once you get all the super easy stuff done and release the next step .. is just months of grinding for one bauble.. it turned me off. Meh.. couldn't bother. Only so many worldwide meta events I could stomach before I was finally ready to call it quits.

    the nonsense about missing the living seasons.. and then having to pay for them.. was another turn off.. come on, already paying for expansions.. now I have to pay for your free content, because I happen not to long in for a few months =P..

    Forget it.

  • dionchidionchi Posts: 580Member Arc User
    edited March 21
    Granted, all things change...

    But if someone finds something they really like and are later told, "you can't do that any more", realistically the evaluation (or reevaluation) process begins at near neutral, if not slightly negative and players will decide if they still like it and stay - or don't and want to move on.

    When I started playing Neverwinter back in 2012-2013 I liked the game, liked it so much as a matter of fact I decided to make a financial investment in the game by purchasing Zen on multiple occasions over the intervening months/years… I purchased multiple sets of level 60 epic armor and weapons with special attributes to them and the bank slots to keep them. then Mod 6 came out in 2015 and much of what I purchased with my real world cash became immediately obsolete to the point of being worthless.

    Even content I used to be able to run prior to the release, more often than not got me killed with one hit from an opponent I used to be able easily vanquish or at least hold my own against.

    I discovered if I wanted to remain relevant in Neverwinter I would have to spend more real world cash (or grind for hours on end) in an effort to make it back to the same competitive level I was at prior to Mod 6.

    I survived the changes in Mod 6 changes and ultimately determined since I have neither the time or inclination to spend hours grinding for what I needed, I would be willing to make another financial investment to continue playing Neverwinter – but not on the scale I did prior to Mod 6.

    Now with the release of Mod 16 I find myself back in the nearly the same condition I was in when Mod 6 was released in that a good portion of the things I spent my real world cash on will soon become obsolete, ‘dumbed down’ or just removed from the game play together… so I find I’m asking myself do I want to spend more given Cryptic’s history of turning items and services I spend money to purchase of lesser worth than it was when I purchased it or ultimately obsolete and borderline useless?

    I fully understand the need for upgrades and even agree that occasionally there needs to be changes made to ensure the future Survivability of an existing platform. But to take someone’s money and then within what I consider a short period of time, make such drastic change that they regret their previous financial contribution seems to be a poor way of encouraging players to make any future investment in the game.

    I purchased Baldur’s Gate back in 2000, All of the Neverwinter single player releases, the Elder Scrolls: Morrowind in 2002, Skyrim in 2012 and Dragon Age shortly after (and a few more titles like Demon Stone for example) - for probably less than I spent in Neverwinter Online so far and just a few weeks ago on a lark I dusted off my old desktop fired up one of those games and discovered all of the the addons I purchased, items I accumulated, my character rank, stats and characteristics as well as the ancillary items I obtained were right where and as I left them…

    I suspect if I were to sign onto Two Worlds, the first online MMORPG I ever played, the items I accumulated and character I created would still be as they were when I started playing Neverwinter, but I have always liked Neverwinter, I've even met and spoke with R.A. Salvatore at a few conventions back in the day… I liked the books, the old paper D&D board games, whatever but Cryptic is seriously taxing that appreciation. Presently I’m at the point where I wish they’d just charge everyone $39.95 to play the game until they've completed the Elemental Evil campaign (or after) and give people the option to spend more for add-on features and future expansions (with all the associated changes to player character classes, companions, etc.) like we'll see in Undermountain aka Mod-16…

    At least then players have a choice as to whether they want to maintain their characters, companions, and features as they are - or do they want to pay a little more for all of the changes along with the new content.

    But that’s just my 2¢
    Post edited by dionchi on
    DD~
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,165Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    regnum online is the same as it was before... added more to the game and called it champions of regnum. I will be there with my old friends.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,165Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    what stuff do you need for neverwinter?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Posts: 545Member Arc User
    Yeah, not touching that analogy OP...happy wife, happy life.
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