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Foundry Sunset Feedback

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  • polaris1986polaris1986 Posts: 283Member Arc User
    to @nitocris83

    Ok, I may understand the reasons of Foundry sunset. It was a bad idea to try reanimate this without needed knowledges and people's resource.
    Yes, may be it was a difficult choice. but it should be.

    Hopes, we may have some simular redactor in the future. A new rising of Foundry.

    ----------------------

    but now. I'm very very sorry about my french.

    what about Reward? the cape? neck? WTF

    "Players who published 10 or more Foundry missions will receive a cape with the Foundry logo"

    is it joke, @nitocris83 or who *** come up with this? @mimicking#6533
    Will be much better if you just remove this 'Reward'. I guess this is the value how you care about players.

    Not owlbear? not a pet or any good reward? as allways in Foundry.

    Also, autors who have 10+ missions it is mostly a bugusers with *** 0-minutes quests or grind.
    How about a reward for players who made a longest quests? no, forget this.


    People, we can't force to come back the Foundry but we can appeal against this 'handout'.
    Please, give support.



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  • mattachinemattachine Posts: 159Member Arc User
    Well they could have made it a github project or made that part of the code open source or something to bring in people that can fix it and develop it.
  • mattachinemattachine Posts: 159Member Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    They did everything that they could do. And if you think making them take a financial hit to bring it back, that's just going to have the opposite effect. If you really want to try to bring it back, vote with your wallet in the other direction. Give them more money to hire more people to run it. But I don't think that would really help, because I know they did everything that was in their power to keep it going.

    Sorry, but that is a reckless recommendation to people on how to spend their money if they want to see the Foundry kept alive. There is no way to earmark any money spent on this game for development and upkeep of the Foundry. Unless they made it a paid feature. With it's own budget and all revenue was committed to only the costs of maintaining and upgrading the Foundry.

    I know players who put fortunes into Cryptic's games, I'm one of them, but still they keep removing features that I love and enjoy in favor of more grinding, less fun, and more limitations. Sorry, I've spent my last money, that I will give to Cryptic, getting VIP for 18 months. I regret it terribly and wish I could get a refund. That is how strongly this change affects me. It's worse than the removal of the exploration system in STO. Which was a huge turn off for me.

    I might do as others in my guild have done and switch to an other online fantasy game as I am hesitant even logging in to claim my daily lockbox keys. Especially if the Tales of Old is any indication of what's to expect with the next Mod.
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 2,685Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    In an ideal world, the quality of your quests should matter. I guess it doesn't.
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  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 2,685Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 5
    What the game really needs is a separate, opensource offline Foundry editor that output the complete quest as XML. Only then should it be transmitted to a server. All Cryptic would have to do for the editor is specify the XML schema to which the output must conform. Then they could use XSL or some other method to validate and translate it any way they wished. That would at least solve half the problem.

    I'm sorely tempted to take my completed quest, open it up in the editor, meticulously record every setting of the assets I use, and save it as an XML file.
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  • darpendragondarpendragon Posts: 25Member Arc User
    edited March 5
    I'm going to assume that you guys have not seem the twitch stream about this. So I will recap the main points here.

    Most of the devs wanted to keep the foundry and want to find a way to preserve it. However, due to it being some very old code, it keeps breaking every time the try to change the code, wether it is for new content or to fix bugs.

    So in other words, would you rather they shut down the foundry and get new content and bug fixes. Or would you rather they keep the foundry open and not get any new content or bug fixes for the rest of the game.

    However, they did say that they will try to save all of the foundry missions in hope that one day there will be a way to get a new version of the foundry.
  • lindesslindess Posts: 3Member Arc User
    I'm afraid they don't care. The Foundry is what distinguishes Neverwinter from other games, but it seems that they want to unify the game and simplify it as much as possible so that it is one of hundreds of the same. The uniqueness of the Neverwinter is no longer needed, no one thinks about the players, and the quests created by the players are simply thrown into the trash. The merits of the players are not needed. To give worthy gifts is too wasteful.
    It's just business...
  • kreatyvekreatyve Posts: 9,543Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    We have merged multiple threads regarding the Foundry Sunsetting.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I mainly play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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  • nermaleyenermaleye Posts: 8Member Arc User
    I agree, Plus I do not like how they are breaking the powers apart. So you can not use all of them together or pick the ones that you wont. I really think that is going to break the game.
    I love to play MMO's & 1st person shooters. An when I am not playing I rebuild & trouble shoot computers.
  • darpendragondarpendragon Posts: 25Member Arc User
    I am going to assume that you have not watch the twitch stream about this.

    No, you will no be able to access foundry missions after the foundry closes because the foundry will no longer exist.

    However, they did say that they will try to save all of the foundry missions, in hope that one day that there might be a new version of the foundry.
  • mattachinemattachine Posts: 159Member Arc User
    pretya said:

    I'm going to assume that you guys have not seem the twitch stream about this. So I will recap the main points here.



    Most of the devs wanted to keep the foundry and want to find a way to preserve it. However, due to it being some very old code, it keeps breaking every time the try to change the code, wether it is for new content or to fix bugs.



    So in other words, would you rather they shut down the foundry and get new content and bug fixes. Or would you rather they keep the foundry open and not get any new content or bug fixes for the rest of the game.



    However, they did say that they will try to save all of the foundry missions in hope that one day there will be a way to get a new version of the foundry.


    If they wanted to save the foundry... why did they not communicate with the authors? I am building maps for 5 years now and there were bugs from the beginning on. The German community reported them, over and over again. What happened? Nothing. There was not even a statement. Only silence.

    So much for 'wanting to preserve the foundry'...
    Exactly, if they wanted to keep it they wouldn't have stopped developing it. Leaving it with using old code that they no longer know how to handle. No this is about bad company leadership that made the decision a long time ago that the Foundry was not worth it. Thus the knowhow eventually got lost and so was the feature. Trying to backpaddel not to make it sound like they care doesn't feel honest. Rather like they are trying to calm down the players by saying that they are on our side in this. When they aren't.

  • alisandraralisandrar Posts: 1Member New User
    I've been watching PWE slowly gut their games of anything that isn't purely monetized. Here is another excellent example. PWE is about rolling out as much as they can as cheaply as they can. They've gutted any reason to subscribe to champions, they are doing the same here. I am sure the developers have done all they can, just as sure as I am that PWE just said we don't care it doesn't make money cut it.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,464Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    Exactly, if they wanted to keep it they wouldn't have stopped developing it. Leaving it with using old code that they no longer know how to handle. No this is about bad company leadership that made the decision a long time ago that the Foundry was not worth it. Thus the knowhow eventually got lost and so was the feature. Trying to backpaddel not to make it sound like they care doesn't feel honest. Rather like they are trying to calm down the players by saying that they are on our side in this. When they aren't.

    Project management: orders come from above; team has to work on that. The Foundry is a side project as time allows.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • shanefrazier93shanefrazier93 Posts: 26Member Arc User

    I'm going to assume that you guys have not seem the twitch stream about this. So I will recap the main points here.



    Most of the devs wanted to keep the foundry and want to find a way to preserve it. However, due to it being some very old code, it keeps breaking every time the try to change the code, wether it is for new content or to fix bugs.



    So in other words, would you rather they shut down the foundry and get new content and bug fixes. Or would you rather they keep the foundry open and not get any new content or bug fixes for the rest of the game.



    However, they did say that they will try to save all of the foundry missions in hope that one day there will be a way to get a new version of the foundry.

    I'm sorry but I don't buy this for a second. If they wanted to save the Foundry, they could have.

    This is nothing but an empty platitude to try to calm down their angry fanbase. It's not going to work.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Posts: 191Member Arc User
    edited March 6
    kreatyve said:

    They did everything that they could do. And if you think making them take a financial hit to bring it back, that's just going to have the opposite effect. If you really want to try to bring it back, vote with your wallet in the other direction. Give them more money to hire more people to run it. But I don't think that would really help, because I know they did everything that was in their power to keep it going.



    I'm sorry but this is horrible logic. Reward them for killing something off? That makes no sense mate. If you go to Burger King and pay $5 for a combo mean with 3 items and then the next time you show up and they say now the combo meal only comes with 2 items but we want you to give us $6 so we can afford to hire more staff, what do you think most people will do?

    This is the truth, whether you are anyone else wants to admit it. NW like every other FTP MMO gets most of its revenue from 10-20% of it's player base (the whales). Whales (like myself) spend a ton of cash up and until there is no motivation for us to do so. I am friends with a few other whales and we have all agreed we are closing up shop. The cash cow stops now because they keep taking away our motivation for playing any by proxy spending. Why on earth would be sink more money into something that keeps giving is less value for our money and effort?

    My guess is the whole new rework for MOD16 is an attempt to infuse the game with sorely needed cash and possibly new players. But with whales holding on to their purse stings now (or at least waiting until mod 16 drops) NW is going to see ROI drop steeply in the short term. There is no getting around that. But what makes the situation worse is that if that happens NW will have to depend on grooming a whole new group of new players but will they want to drop the cash like the generation before them? Who knows? And even if they do, eventually, will they do it time to stop the bleeding? Again, who knows?

    Perhaps this is an attempt to cull old whales and a player base who have already slowed down on spending. But giving us less for our time and money is not going to make us spend more.

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  • bpstuartbpstuart Posts: 86Member Arc User
    I will sorely miss the foundry even if i played with the mission less than i should have. This one one of the aspects that made it feel like dungeons and dragons. Players creating adventures for people to romp through, a shared joy of story telling. There was always a feeling that you could take a stroll through someone's ideas, then make your own hoping that author might play your story and go " I see i inspired someone." it is a beautiful thing, but now it will fade.
    This makes me profoundly if quietly sad.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • luks707luks707 Posts: 226Member Arc User
    As a manager IRL I have sympathy about having to decide where to relocate resources. But the truth is, you have to look at how to make your $ go as far as it can. The foundry has not been well supported in Neverwinter for years. My suggestion for a random foundry q along with a bit of dev support would turn that around. Moreover my point is - it would turn this game around in terms of CONTENT.
    The new mod seems to be making interesting changes in terms of the mechanics, but it will not fix that the content overall is designed around repitition. The particular weakness of the most recent mod has been having fun one off content to play, stories to engage with etc. Ask yourself why do people still buy and play skyrim?
    Neverwinter could be stand out in MMOs by having the foundry work. As is, it is sadly going remain one among many, despite the huge potential of the DnD IP.
  • wylonuswylonus Posts: 2,137Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    tales of old just dead to me, less fun than dungeon master event.
  • draugkirdraugkir Posts: 61Member Arc User
    Just another brick on the wall..
  • wylonuswylonus Posts: 2,137Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 6
    why closing it, doesnt any "VIP players" doesnt count? they spend 10 bucks a month to keep VIP active for daily keys. not enough? i see cash cow already butchered and downgraded since mod 6. these players been asking for more creative freedom and to make customizable player made adventure packs since 2013.
    i have seen both NWN1 and NWN2 had so much talents with player made contents and they are light years ahead. it is sad to see this NWo cant not meet the legacies with current tech and you need guys at Standing Stones Games, their game engine is peerless, they are semi-out of work since WB bought them out and shut down because the players didnt like that brand, DC Infinity.
    Post edited by wylonus on
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 906Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User



    You're not gonna like what I'm gonna say, but I'm actually glad it's gone. It was a hog of resources for the team, and spending so much time/maintenance for a feature that affected... say... 5% of the player base at best (I'm being generous, I suspect it's actually closer to 0,5% nowadays) is just not fair to the vast majority of the player base who was not touching it at all..

    Ok two points here, and remember I am only talking about STO's foundry and I have no knowledge of NWN. First, there was no resource hog at all, any assets that were put into the foundry were done by Devs in their own time. The only time Cryptic had to plan resources for it was wehn it inevitably broke after a major update, so by closing the foundry they are not going to suddenly see a large influx of dev resource time, their only advantage is that they won't have to fix it next time it breaks.

    Secondly, the figures for STO are very different. Over one third of all players regularly use the foundry, this equates to almost a million players, and perhaps that's why our forums are on fire and these are not.

    I understand, but perhaps STO's foundry missions were better implemented in the game than Neverwinter's and were a much more important part of the game there than they are here. I don't play STO so I wouldn't know about that.
    My post was not directed at STO's foundry. These are Neverwinter's forum and I'm talking about it from Neverwinter's perspective.

    The resource hog is there, because foundry requires maintenance (featured foundries are not selected automatically, someone from the dev team had to playtest and evaluate them regularly) and dedicated servers to run the missions whenever a player "calls" one (if there are no dedicated server for them, it's even worse, as they would overload the servers used by other players, but I doubt this was the case). Now, that guy (or guys?) from the dev team will either be layed off (more financial resources) or will be moved to do something else (more speed/quality in that aspect of that game). A (very) small portion of the player base will lose from this, but pretty much everyone else only has to gain from it, potentially.
    Nah.
    It's only a small number of players NOW because they neutered and neglected it for 3 years.
    4-5 years ago we all used the foundry.

    There was a "Foundry Hour" just like "Dungeon hour".
    Foundry was a daily part of all of our gameplay, much like rEQ and rAQ is today.

    But they left it to rot.
    If every Mod since 2014 included a few minor incentives for running a Foundry once per day and with the slightest bit of maintenance the majority of players would still do a foundry run every day.
    It's a shame and a bad business decision.
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  • gethundgethund Posts: 36Member Arc User
    Whatever people have or have not said on some Twitch feed or other (because that's the best way to communicate with your fanbase!) if they wanted to save this feature they could have. I shall certainly not be supporting the game financially while this is the case, and suggest sufficient others do the same for them to notice that we don't actually want everything dumbed down to pre-school levels.

    :)
  • mattachinemattachine Posts: 159Member Arc User
    greywynd said:


    Exactly, if they wanted to keep it they wouldn't have stopped developing it. Leaving it with using old code that they no longer know how to handle. No this is about bad company leadership that made the decision a long time ago that the Foundry was not worth it. Thus the knowhow eventually got lost and so was the feature. Trying to backpaddel not to make it sound like they care doesn't feel honest. Rather like they are trying to calm down the players by saying that they are on our side in this. When they aren't.

    Project management: orders come from above; team has to work on that. The Foundry is a side project as time allows.
    I'm sorry, but no. No company will let their employees run their product willy nilly on their spare time. Creating the Foundry was something decided on by those in charge of the company, even though the idea might have not been theirs. It is those in charge that made a decision that they no longer liked it and saw no future for it. Thus they let it die from starvation and neglect. Sure some were more invested in its existence then the leadership and fought for its preservation by offering to do the necessary work on their spare time.

    If they had monetized the Foundry, or sold it as an additional separate product, then they could have kept it. As its popularity would tie in with what profits it would generate and in return make developing it profitable. Actually I would even pay to just have the Foundry in a sandbox mode only available to me, only on my computer, that only I (or those I shared the quest file with) could play efter I've made the it. Take this game offline as a choice and keep the Foundry for it. Then let us decide if we want to download your new patches or new Mods.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,464Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Unless you're sitting in on the meetings, it is all speculation as to why.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • steelcrusher92steelcrusher92 Posts: 1Member Arc User
    I really have to agree with everyone who is saying that this is a huge letdown to the Neverwinter community. The Foundry has been a huge aspect of the game for me since the very opening days of it. I've played Neverwinter since the game released, and one of the most absolutely astounding aspects of the game was seeing just how incredibly creative Foundry Authors could be, and what they could come up with, with the Foundry tools. Many of the player made quests that I've played in Neverwinter and STO have honestly been drastically better than the quests that are officially authored by Cryptic and subsequently Perfect World in terms of writing. If they could give us a clear timetable on getting the Foundry system back up and running, I would be less angry, but it definitely seems like they're just trying to play the, 'we had to do sunset it for x, y and z reasons' thing, and make up excuses to placate the community while they scrape the remains of Foundry under the rug to never be seen again. If Foundry does get fully removed with no openly stated timetable on when they plan to readd it then I honestly have little doubt that it'll mean the death of Neverwinter as a game. No amount of 'Quality' dev content is going to keep the player base interested when it's released at a staggeringly slow rate.
  • warrfb#9532 warrfb Posts: 18Member Arc User
    > @darpendragon said:
    > I'm going to assume that you guys have not seem the twitch stream about this. So I will recap the main points here.
    >
    > Most of the devs wanted to keep the foundry and want to find a way to preserve it. However, due to it being some very old code, it keeps breaking every time the try to change the code, wether it is for new content or to fix bugs.
    >
    > So in other words, would you rather they shut down the foundry and get new content and bug fixes. Or would you rather they keep the foundry open and not get any new content or bug fixes for the rest of the game.
    >
    > However, they did say that they will try to save all of the foundry missions in hope that one day there will be a way to get a new version of the foundry.

    _______________________

    last line rocks

    The middle one, im not sure i can agree. I would chose they do get new content and bug fixes but NOT shut down the foundry, if I had a choice.

    Of course, the new system will break the foundry whole, probably beyond repair, and theres nothing anyone can do about it without (drums roll) putting effort and work on it, which is not in the foreseeable future, because "the foundry does not generate revenue". THAT is where things went wrong in my opinion, the foundry should have been a big zen sink, not just a small free side hobby.

    But that had to be done before the majority who loved it gave up on it and left.

    SIGHS

    My salute to the foundry and to the dev team.

    My salute, in special, to this "strange" fellow who kept adding content from new mods to the foundry, despite the editor being mostly abandoned. This person / ppl who did check the bug tickets and fix the reward chest for the foundry after we reported it, when the foundry had just come back online but was unplayable, this person who actually DID bring the foundry back online so many times after each new mod. Whoever you are, thank you.

    I cant bring myself to keep playing after April 11th tho. I was praying so hard that this was Aprils Fools.
  • warrfb#9532 warrfb Posts: 18Member Arc User
    >
    > Nah.
    > It's only a small number of players NOW because they neutered and neglected it for 3 years.
    > 4-5 years ago we all used the foundry.
    >
    > There was a "Foundry Hour" just like "Dungeon hour".
    > Foundry was a daily part of all of our gameplay, much like rEQ and rAQ is today.
    >
    > But they left it to rot.
    > If every Mod since 2014 included a few minor incentives for running a Foundry once per day and with the slightest bit of maintenance the majority of players would still do a foundry run every day.
    > It's a shame and a bad business decision.

    __________________________________________________________________________

    This. The foundry was part of the past of every player of this game, even those who only wanted the rewards.

    The foundry is not perfect and the editor is not perfect, but hey - Be honest, WHAT IS PERFECT? The foundry has no enemy team customization, no stats customization, no in depth allies customization, no if / then / or / else, but overcoming those shortcomings were and still are part of what making a good foundry quest being fun to craft. My campaign is not easy to make, theres no real quest branching based on decisions unless you break those decisions away from the main story, so its a hell to give two endings to your quest, and learning how to do those things, regardless of the difficulties, is absurdly rewarding.

    The foundry is like that strange show you hate to love while others love to hate. People can tell me its "bad" or "broken" all they want, i still love it, and fixing functionality on my own by using tricks is what make me feel like I really designed* something. And I would give anything to preserve that, even if it were to never improve, beats the thought of losing it.
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 2,685Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 6
    They could have simply picked the best dozen quests, set up a Foundry Tales event, and put in a couple chests at the end of each Foundry quest -- one you could always open, and one that required a Legendary Dragon Key (or other special Zen store item). Put items and/or currencies in the chests that are unique to the event. Let the currencies allow a player to buy a unique account-bound legendary mount, one per account. People would run it like mad.

    Here's my suggestion: bring it back a year from now as a 2-week annual event. Then shut it down until the following year. That should take quite a bit of the load off of maintaining it. If I was offering advice to Kael, I'd suggest writing a translator that can turn Foundry quests into standard ones. No need to keep the Foundry engine itself since you already know how to read the files.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
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