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Member Posts: 32 Arc User
This is already in general discussion thread but i re - posted it here as this seems more fitting thread
So I spent the day going through all the quests trying out as much as I possibly could. I reached level 80 and have played around with just about everything. This of course is simply my opinion and other rogues are entitled to their own opinions. By no means is my build the only way a rogue can be done.
So first off I do like the overall interface, boons, companions feats and so on. I do like some of the new skills that have been added. I do like the crit vs resist the awareness stats and just that whole implementation though I do think it need to be adjusted. And that about ends the positive feedback.
For a rogue built as I am i feed off of Shadow of Demise. Whenever I run combat tracker in the old module its is 100% my top dps skill every time I run a hunt or dungeon that allows me to use a full burn scenario. These changes have basicly killed my build. Starting with the fact you have separated too many skills into paths unreachable. The benefit of the old feats chain was that even though i was an Exec rogue I could still put some points into Sabo skill I used. I was able to put 5/5 into both skill that lowered my CD times. Knife Edge and Shady Prep. In the new build you have separated them into separate paths making it impossible to have both. Shadow of Demise only gives you small time frame to hit as many good encounter powers as you can and you have killed my ability to do so by splitting those skills up and by basiclly killing recovry time. Even with using all the new module feats i can to improve my recharge time its still useless. In addition the the severe drop in recharge time, the AP gain is competely horrid with no way to add to it. I get you want to stop some classes from spamming encounters but encounter are a rogues beef skills. Our at wills are filler skills and our dailies are not consistent damage skills. Lurkers being the most important skill which itself does not do damage but rather buff our encounter powers. You really need to adjust rogues ability to improve recharge speed/AP gain, and the little gains from CHA do nothing (or lower encounter CDs and give me both Knives Edge and Shady prep).
Second problem i have is that you have basicly taken all the skills i use and split them up into paths. Glooming Cut and Dazing Strike are Assasin skills that I want but everything else is in Whispering Knife. So basiclly now I have to go WK and use junk throwing skills I cant stand using. About the only good news is that Lashing Blade is available on both paths. Lurkers Assault should be a fundamental rogue skill not just a WK skill. You need to rethink how your separate paths. To be honest for dps classes I dont really like paths at all. It not like dps have a healer . tank path its dps or dps. Let us build whatever skill paths we want to make our dps great. I also am not a fan of the feats A) OR b) path choices. And lastly not a fan of the nerfing of all the feats. Shadow of Demise used to be 6 second and more damage and now its 5 and less damage as an example.
Companions
Not a fan of nerfing all my archon pets. I put alot of time/diamonds into getting those pets and now they will be useless.
Same can be said of making companion gear Comp ONLY. I put alot of dias into my electrum necklace which is now useless.
Same can be said of not allowing pets to wear enchants like Black Ice and so on. Thats 5 more enchants that are now useless.
Bug/Fixes
Strength currently add 0 to my damage
My current weapons have artifact bonuses that do nothing AP gain is still listed there still and is my current choice.
So I spent the day going through all the quests trying out as much as I possibly could. I reached level 80 and have played around with just about everything. This of course is simply my opinion and other rogues are entitled to their own opinions. By no means is my build the only way a rogue can be done.
So first off I do like the overall interface, boons, companions feats and so on. I do like some of the new skills that have been added. I do like the crit vs resist the awareness stats and just that whole implementation though I do think it need to be adjusted. And that about ends the positive feedback.
For a rogue built as I am i feed off of Shadow of Demise. Whenever I run combat tracker in the old module its is 100% my top dps skill every time I run a hunt or dungeon that allows me to use a full burn scenario. These changes have basicly killed my build. Starting with the fact you have separated too many skills into paths unreachable. The benefit of the old feats chain was that even though i was an Exec rogue I could still put some points into Sabo skill I used. I was able to put 5/5 into both skill that lowered my CD times. Knife Edge and Shady Prep. In the new build you have separated them into separate paths making it impossible to have both. Shadow of Demise only gives you small time frame to hit as many good encounter powers as you can and you have killed my ability to do so by splitting those skills up and by basiclly killing recovry time. Even with using all the new module feats i can to improve my recharge time its still useless. In addition the the severe drop in recharge time, the AP gain is competely horrid with no way to add to it. I get you want to stop some classes from spamming encounters but encounter are a rogues beef skills. Our at wills are filler skills and our dailies are not consistent damage skills. Lurkers being the most important skill which itself does not do damage but rather buff our encounter powers. You really need to adjust rogues ability to improve recharge speed/AP gain, and the little gains from CHA do nothing (or lower encounter CDs and give me both Knives Edge and Shady prep).
Second problem i have is that you have basicly taken all the skills i use and split them up into paths. Glooming Cut and Dazing Strike are Assasin skills that I want but everything else is in Whispering Knife. So basiclly now I have to go WK and use junk throwing skills I cant stand using. About the only good news is that Lashing Blade is available on both paths. Lurkers Assault should be a fundamental rogue skill not just a WK skill. You need to rethink how your separate paths. To be honest for dps classes I dont really like paths at all. It not like dps have a healer . tank path its dps or dps. Let us build whatever skill paths we want to make our dps great. I also am not a fan of the feats A) OR b) path choices. And lastly not a fan of the nerfing of all the feats. Shadow of Demise used to be 6 second and more damage and now its 5 and less damage as an example.
Companions
Not a fan of nerfing all my archon pets. I put alot of time/diamonds into getting those pets and now they will be useless.
Same can be said of making companion gear Comp ONLY. I put alot of dias into my electrum necklace which is now useless.
Same can be said of not allowing pets to wear enchants like Black Ice and so on. Thats 5 more enchants that are now useless.
Bug/Fixes
Strength currently add 0 to my damage
My current weapons have artifact bonuses that do nothing AP gain is still listed there still and is my current choice.
0
Comments
So secondly, you can't compare how things are in mod 15 and prior to the new mod. You have to basically forget everything on how it use to be. Your complaints are basically that you want mod 15 for the new mod 16. You will have to adjust like everyone else is to the class changes. The only way you are going to be able to play is to 100% forget what you know about the Rogue and start fresh and quit trying to drag mod 15 into how you "want" mod 16 to be.
> This is already in general discussion thread but i re - posted it here as this seems more fitting thread
>
> So I spent the day going through all the quests trying out as much as I possibly could. I reached level 80 and have played around with just about everything. This of course is simply my opinion and other rogues are entitled to their own opinions. By no means is my build the only way a rogue can be done.
>
> So first off I do like the overall interface, boons, companions feats and so on. I do like some of the new skills that have been added. I do like the crit vs resist the awareness stats and just that whole implementation though I do think it need to be adjusted. And that about ends the positive feedback.
>
>
> For a rogue built as I am i feed off of Shadow of Demise. Whenever I run combat tracker in the old module its is 100% my top dps skill every time I run a hunt or dungeon that allows me to use a full burn scenario. These changes have basicly killed my build. Starting with the fact you have separated too many skills into paths unreachable. The benefit of the old feats chain was that even though i was an Exec rogue I could still put some points into Sabo skill I used. I was able to put 5/5 into both skill that lowered my CD times. Knife Edge and Shady Prep. In the new build you have separated them into separate paths making it impossible to have both. Shadow of Demise only gives you small time frame to hit as many good encounter powers as you can and you have killed my ability to do so by splitting those skills up and by basiclly killing recovry time. Even with using all the new module feats i can to improve my recharge time its still useless. In addition the the severe drop in recharge time, the AP gain is competely horrid with no way to add to it. I get you want to stop some classes from spamming encounters but encounter are a rogues beef skills. Our at wills are filler skills and our dailies are not consistent damage skills. Lurkers being the most important skill which itself does not do damage but rather buff our encounter powers. You really need to adjust rogues ability to improve recharge speed/AP gain, and the little gains from CHA do nothing (or lower encounter CDs and give me both Knives Edge and Shady prep).
>
> Second problem i have is that you have basicly taken all the skills i use and split them up into paths. Glooming Cut and Dazing Strike are Assasin skills that I want but everything else is in Whispering Knife. So basiclly now I have to go WK and use junk throwing skills I cant stand using. About the only good news is that Lashing Blade is available on both paths. Lurkers Assault should be a fundamental rogue skill not just a WK skill. You need to rethink how your separate paths. To be honest for dps classes I dont really like paths at all. It not like dps have a healer . tank path its dps or dps. Let us build whatever skill paths we want to make our dps great. I also am not a fan of the feats A) OR b) path choices. And lastly not a fan of the nerfing of all the feats. Shadow of Demise used to be 6 second and more damage and now its 5 and less damage as an example.
>
>
> Companions
>
> Not a fan of nerfing all my archon pets. I put alot of time/diamonds into getting those pets and now they will be useless.
>
> Same can be said of making companion gear Comp ONLY. I put alot of dias into my electrum necklace which is now useless.
>
> Same can be said of not allowing pets to wear enchants like Black Ice and so on. Thats 5 more enchants that are now useless.
>
>
>
> Bug/Fixes
>
> Strength currently add 0 to my damage
> My current weapons have artifact bonuses that do nothing AP gain is still listed there still and is my current choice.
>
>
>
> Well let me answer your last complaint first. There is still a lot they need to finish so the ability score for strength giving damage bonus isn't working. They are well aware of this.
>
> So secondly, you can't compare how things are in mod 15 and prior to the new mod. You have to basically forget everything on how it use to be. Your complaints are basically that you want mod 15 for the new mod 16. You will have to adjust like everyone else is to the class changes. The only way you are going to be able to play is to 100% forget what you know about the Rogue and start fresh and quit trying to drag mod 15 into how you "want" mod 16 to be.
Hell no.... we are losing what made the game fun and enjoyable. We are losing what we planned and took years to build. You are saying have amnesia and start fresh and rediscover who are meant to be?
We can do that in another game where we dont have a track record of the company going bi polar on how the game functions every so often.
Mod 16 is a breath of fresh air. Lets look at it, we get a campaign without time walls. This hasn't been done since Elemental Evil campaign was released. Sure we get a total class rework and it has been "stream lined" or dumbed down. But who knows what will come out of it. So far I've only tried Cleric and Ranger but I find them fine. I have one of each class, so I'll be playing them all on the new mod to see what suits me now. The companion rework isn't all that bad, sure it stings when you finally got a good companion which is now just meh in the new mod. But from my perspective it gives all those other "junk" companions a use now.
I have spent a lot of money, even on packs that seem so worthless that it is embarrassing to admit how much money I spent. But do you see my crying or complaining about it? Pretty much you have to take the mindset if you are willing to give Cryptic your money that once the transaction goes through you aren't guaranteed anything or the "goodness" of what you got isn't set in stone, it can be obsolete next mod. An example that I gave above is the Hero of North pack. Look it up, totally obsolete and costed $200 usd. Now if I mention I bought that pack people laugh at me and say i'm a sucker. I don't really care, I enjoy the game.
I welcome the changes, I like the new mod. So yes, if you have the right mindset this mod is nothing that hasn't already been done to the players since day one. It gives you a chance to play your favorite class in a new way and discover what little bits you can tweak to get more performance out of it. Who knows, they might continue these tweaks into the future, come mod 17 or 18. So the sky isn't falling. Just forget that anything existed prior to mod 16 and you will be fine.
The game was great fun, in the beginning. It's taken a year or so, but after reaching "endgame" I've realised how broken it is. And for me, that's not fun at all. I was already going to lose "what we planned and took years to build" because I'd built and loved a bunch of toons which are not loved in the current meta. Having a "alive unless you get 1 shot" environment is great fun if you have all the gear to stay alive, but not so for everybody else.
1) yes there have been many changes, i am not saying i want a static game that never evolves into something better. I am saying that you can change many elements of the game without losing the core of how the basic mechanics of the game work.
1a.) class changes have happened, but mainly as small tweaks to what powers did what damage and ranges, not a total revamp of all your powers and removal of combinations that you have used for years.
1b.) mount changes have happened, but for anyone who had the mount when it had whatever "error" got to keep the bonuses of those mounts thus lose nothing.
1c.) companions have not changed much over the years... mind you getting active bonuses or being allowed to use certain bonuses more or less per so many seconds. but the bonuses still remained.
1d.) astral diamond changes don't do anything to your pve or pvp game play experience just your overall buying power of items that could cost zen.
1e.) que changes again... don't do much for pve open zones or pvp for gameplay experience. you could still private que and play as you please.
1f.) dungeon changes don't change your characters ability to roam around or fight monsters in the world, many dungeons are just not played as it is anyway.
1g.) campaign changes again.. do not alter to core of your characters being or how you play in pve or pvp.
1h.) crafting changes also.. do not alter the core of your character skill, feats, encounters, or gameplay for pvp or pve.
we are losing what made the game fun and enjoyable. We are losing what we planned and took years to build. There are some players that are not effected by this change, because their builds and playstyles never included lifesteal, recovery, or mobility from dark enchantments, or even critical chance for that matter. Some builds never used the feats or encounters that are being removed. For those people, you are the few, the lucky, the blessed by the 9. For others like me, we get our booty tickled, then dragon donged. I don't expect you to see our point of view. You never walked the past few years in our shoes. That being said, we live in separate worlds. When our sky is falling and we are feeling the ground quake and rip open beneath our feet, getting swallowed up by the abzu, you in your world don't even feel a tremor.
Will we stay in this game? Most likely we will stay or go and come while playing less. Should we not voice our upset and opinion of the matter just because others say suck it up and shut up. Hell no. If we had time to start over in other games like we did years ago, most of us probably would. If we didn't love this game as much as we do, we wouldn't be so passionate about trying to fix issues or help players in game get up to speed or even ...(sigh)
It really doesn't matter as we have no real say on anything here.
I'm done talking about mod 16.
The bugs I have found, I am not reporting them.
I don't care anymore for the time being.
1a) Class changes are radically different because they just changed the core mechanics of the game. Of course the classes had to change. Also, character building was bloated and overly complex. It allowed to many people to unknowingly gimp themselves and then have to spend zen to fix it.
1b) Keeping the old bonuses that were wrong and broken is stupid. All that gives is a new class of people who "got lucky because they were here before the change" Meaning new players would be discouraged before they even started. Its great for you maybe if you got lucky but not for the future of the game.
1c) Same as the above
1d, e, f) Not sure what this has to do with anything in Mod 16. krumple01 was just making a point that things change. And while they didn't impact you, they might have impacted on other people's idea of fun. Which is what you have complained about.
1g) The Campaigns didnt change. The rewards did. And it was significantly for the better.
1h) This was the biggest most major change to the game for me in the last year. It most definitely impacted on my idea of fun. And the fact that you casually dismissed it only shows that we are playing completely differently. There is nothing wrong with this, but it should highlight how one person's fun is not necessarily the same for all.
There are people who WILL be affected by this, who WILL lose effort/time/money that they have spent but still like the changes. Please don't assume that the only people who are looking forward to this are ones that have lost nothing. There are people that can lose and take a hit and still go on.
Lets face it, if a player asked about a build, they got the response, look on mmominds for a build. So a huge majority of players probably had the same build until a new build was posted. So technically a huge majority of players had the exact same build. Or worse, if a player did experiment and during a dungeon run the rest of the party are yelling at them for not using the meta x power. So they are essentially forced into copying builds based on not wanting other players to yell at them for not having a meta build.
So all they really did was cut out the powers that no one was using, or very few players were using for each class. So this idea about individuality or unique builds is just plain nonsense since we both know one or two players dumped a bunch of time and maybe money into finding out the best build and then posted for other players to cookie cut.
I really like these changes because we are getting far a way from the party being built upon ONE player doing all the killing while the rest of the party are just buff or heal bots for that one player. Its boring being told that your class is a support class and that is all you are allowed to do or else face the wrath of an elitist player.
With these changes it has opened the possibility that there is no sole reliance upon 1 person to do all the killing. Where Clerics and be doing damage while Paladins doing the healing. For example.
Sure I don't like the paper or plastic choices and boons that really don't add anything significant or a whole ton of work to unlock them to only be so slightly better than a player who doesn't have them unlocked. I'm not saying these changes are perfect but they are better than what we have in mod 15 because they open the door to a better dynamic party build.
And even if you ignore all the equipment/gear/enchants they nerfed or ruined, instead of making the small effort to keep them relevant because they know full well what most people are using, they makes go thru the hassle of exchanging once great items for nerfed down shadows of what you owned before.
Then, they take away a few core aspects of the game that made it unique and then change more things that stab at the very core of the spirit of D&D. *staring at you attributes and AC*
But none of that matters because no matter what anyone on here tries to tell me, six months after launch everyone will be running the same exact cookie cutter characters and builds because apparently we are too stupid to be allowed to make out own choices from a complex set of variables. And all battles will be button smashing at wills ad nauseam and running around dodging until we can use encounters or dailies. I'm sorry no matter how "strategic minded" the new system is supposed to be its boring as watching paint dry.
Might as well play Gauntlet. "Barbarian needs food, badly."
As for attributes and AC. Same words, different meanings since the dawn of DnD. A Str stat of 14 was pointless in 2nd ED. Gave you almost nothing. Changed in 3rd Ed. Changed again in 4th Ed, when Str for a Rogue was irrelevant since you could use Dex for all damage modifiers. AC morphed from a low number being good to bigger is better. THACO (remember that) changed to Hit Bonuses. LOL and lets not go to class building. Play SSI's Pools of Radiance (1988) if you want to remind yourself on how completely restrictive and optionless character building was in the beginning.
You've made good points on what you dislike about the Mod 16 NWO game. Good points on how it can be done better. But lets not go into "its not DnD" because you could have said that before the game was even released.
It's obvious they want to move away from a few of the more traditional D&D standards as well. Which they have every right to, its their game. It's just a shame tho because up to MOD16 Neverwinter came closest to giving me that fun and thrill that I have always associated P&P D&D on another medium. Oh well, all good things and all that. Jusy sad to see it go.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1246070/trapper-and-cc-roles-are-missing-in-neverwinter
Same with the invisibility that the game uses to simulate stealth.