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  • rubytruerubytrue Posts: 433Member Arc User

    I am not sure the 1% chance will work as expected with pwards. This seems to be that the value of the streak is higher than the largest stack of wards you can have. This looks to work well on 3% and higher since they are all values under that of a stack of 99.

    You can have multiple stacks of 99....
  • gethundgethund Posts: 36Member Arc User
    "Wow! Finally" Now there's a suggestion :astonished:
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User

    I remember once it took me 150 pwards to give up and make a r11 to a r12 with a coal once. Making it a loss for me .. of like 500k on the enchant.. things like that want to make you drop from the game all together.

    I would hope it would limit that sort of nonsense, but it depends on what their break value is. If its so high that is virtually worthless , then its not worth the coding they put into it.


    I guess you haven't read the posts above you. The break value is 150 for the 1% bracket. Go no idea if that is the bottom line or the upper limit, but I think we can assume something close to it for everything else. Which means it will absolutely avoid the HAMSTER that you just went thru. That's the whole point of the OP.
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User
    manipulos said:

    There are a lot of Quality of Life upgrades in Mod16 that I think are not getting the positive feedback they deserve. Changes to refinement and the way companions and their gear are handled are both much appreciated, by me at least! I was to the point with enchants and companions that any more fine-tuning was too tedious, annoying, and expensive so I just didn't bother.

    Exactly. It's like people are just looking for something to complain about. There are a lot of QoL improvements that are absolutely magnificent ideas. This being one of them. I'm wondering if they should have maybe done the "easy" ones only. Like Refining, Boons and Comps for Mod 16, and then left the bombshell of the class changes for later.
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Posts: 111Member Arc User
    rubytrue said:

    I am not sure the 1% chance will work as expected with pwards. This seems to be that the value of the streak is higher than the largest stack of wards you can have. This looks to work well on 3% and higher since they are all values under that of a stack of 99.

    You can have multiple stacks of 99....
    Not inside of the tool selection. Point should be mute though due to the fact that the item is supposed to keep the count of how many attempts already happened to it. Meaning at worst case that would be 150 attempts.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,453Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    agilesto said:



    So turns out Adinosii's idea of 150% of expected result is correct.

    It could just as easily be 10x the rank you are trying to achieve.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • utookmynickutookmynick Posts: 118Member Arc User
    edited March 15


    Not inside of the tool selection. Point should be mute though due to the fact that the item is supposed to keep the count of how many attempts already happened to it. Meaning at worst case that would be 150 attempts.

    When I tested this today, there was one r14 I tried upgrading where I failed 3 stacks of 99 before I succeeded on the 4th stack, so I don't know where people are getting this 150 streak breaker number from (unless this is a bug or not yet implemented on latest preview)

  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,716Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 15
    ---
  • akemnosakemnos Posts: 452Member Arc User
    noworries did state that it is probably a bug as the streak breaker should be on the actual item and not the stack of wards. he was going to look into it. rank 14 to rank 15 should at max refine on the 151st try
  • utookmynickutookmynick Posts: 118Member Arc User
    akemnos said:

    noworries did state that it is probably a bug as the streak breaker should be on the actual item and not the stack of wards. he was going to look into it. rank 14 to rank 15 should at max refine on the 151st try

    I see, thanks. My bad for not reading the original thread in the preview forum.
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Posts: 111Member Arc User


    Not inside of the tool selection. Point should be mute though due to the fact that the item is supposed to keep the count of how many attempts already happened to it. Meaning at worst case that would be 150 attempts.

    When I tested this today, there was one r14 I tried upgrading where I failed 3 stacks of 99 before I succeeded on the 4th stack, so I don't know where people are getting this 150 streak breaker number from (unless this is a bug or not yet implemented on latest preview)

    The streak breaker is built into the same item so if you were changing enchants on the upgrade attempt using a stack of 99 on one ward, then another, then another you wouldn't actually hit the limit. If you did it on 1 enchantment then yes that would be a bug and needs reporting. I have upgraded about 40 or so enchants to rank 15 on preview and the breaker worked for me. The thing that I was originally discussing was that I was worried that it would keep the limit on enchants that require more than a single stack of 99 which the person who responded to me said they could put more than a stack of 99 into the upgrade window. That was what I originally told them I didn't see where they could do that.
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 580Member Arc User
    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.
    DD~
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 941Member Arc User
    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User

    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
    Now if only they'd do that for all the other HAMSTER I got lying about in my inventories .....
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 580Member Arc User
    edited March 22
    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
    Now if only they'd do that for all the other HAMSTER I got lying about in my inventories .....
    I didn't predict Cryptic would increase the stack cap for preservation wards for player convenience, I think they will increase the P-ward stack size because I hear players will be able to plug in a stack of P-wards, start the "Refine" process and juts walk away. The refinement process will keep attempting to level up the item until:

    1) There is a successful upgrade -

    2) The player runs out of P-wards -
    ***"Surprise! Your stack of 999 P-wards was used up trying to refine your [insert item name here] to level ... while you were gone".

    Then of course most players will have little choice but to buy more P-wards, (looks to me someone discovered a new 'AD sink' and possibly a way to increase revenue for the game)...

    I don't care if they have increased the P-ward stack size to 999 or if it is actually just; 'random chance', I doubt I'll ever be willing to stack 999 P-wards on something and just walk away - hoping - the refinement process doesn't munch them all while I was off doing something else.

    Call me a cynic but there you have my suspicions ~
    DD~
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,716Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
    Now if only they'd do that for all the other HAMSTER I got lying about in my inventories .....
    Well, just curious, what was the inventory lie and who lied to you?
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User
    dionchi said:

    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
    Now if only they'd do that for all the other HAMSTER I got lying about in my inventories .....
    I didn't predict Cryptic would increase the stack cap for preservation wards for player convenience, I think they will increase the P-ward stack size because I hear players will be able to plug in a stack of P-wards, start the "Refine" process and juts walk away. The refinement process will keep attempting to level up the item until:

    1) There is a successful upgrade -

    2) The player runs out of P-wards -
    ***"Surprise! Your stack of 999 P-wards was used up trying to refine your [insert item name here] to level ... while you were gone".

    Then of course most players will have little choice but to buy more P-wards, (looks to me someone discovered a new 'AD sink' and possibly a way to increase revenue for the game)...

    I don't care if they have increased the P-ward stack size to 999 or if it is actually just; 'random chance', I doubt I'll ever be willing to stack 999 P-wards on something and just walk away - hoping - the refinement process doesn't munch them all while I was off doing something else.

    Call me a cynic but there you have my suspicions ~
    Hmm, you might want to read most of the previous comments on this thread. Things like the streak breaker mechanic. Etc. Being able to allow you to stack 999 P-wards is all win. There is no evil reason to do so. There are lots of things to complain about, this is not one of them.
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User

    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
    Now if only they'd do that for all the other HAMSTER I got lying about in my inventories .....
    Well, just curious, what was the inventory lie and who lied to you?
    It was that dirty leprechaun from the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog.
  • bobo#5090 bobo Posts: 150Member Arc User
    havlocke said:

    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
    Now if only they'd do that for all the other HAMSTER I got lying about in my inventories .....
    Well, just curious, what was the inventory lie and who lied to you?
    It was that dirty leprechaun from the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog.
    I have found that you do need additional aggro solo(not into the preview with my PC OP yet). But he runs the free wizard comp you get at lvl10, and without the additional aggro, the enemies follow my comp, and without a sling to hit them from afar, I need the aggro to bring them in range of my mace.
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 580Member Arc User
    edited March 22
    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
    Now if only they'd do that for all the other HAMSTER I got lying about in my inventories .....
    I didn't predict Cryptic would increase the stack cap for preservation wards for player convenience, I think they will increase the P-ward stack size because I hear players will be able to plug in a stack of P-wards, start the "Refine" process and juts walk away. The refinement process will keep attempting to level up the item until:

    1) There is a successful upgrade -

    2) The player runs out of P-wards -
    ***"Surprise! Your stack of 999 P-wards was used up trying to refine your [insert item name here] to level ... while you were gone".

    Then of course most players will have little choice but to buy more P-wards, (looks to me someone discovered a new 'AD sink' and possibly a way to increase revenue for the game)...

    I don't care if they have increased the P-ward stack size to 999 or if it is actually just; 'random chance', I doubt I'll ever be willing to stack 999 P-wards on something and just walk away - hoping - the refinement process doesn't munch them all while I was off doing something else.

    Call me a cynic but there you have my suspicions ~
    Hmm, you might want to read most of the previous comments on this thread. Things like the streak breaker mechanic. Etc. Being able to allow you to stack 999 P-wards is all win. There is no evil reason to do so. There are lots of things to complain about, this is not one of them.
    I think you misunderstood, I'm not "complaining" about P-wards (or anything else) potentially being stacked to 999... It seems you've mistaken my casual speculation for a complaint, nothing could be farther from the truth.

    It is my considered opinion that any item with identical stats (including armor, weapons, apparel, character accessories like rings dyes, transmutes and so forth, along with other items – runestones, enchantments, etc.) should all be able to be stacked to 999. After VIP started giving player ID scrolls, suddenly the stack cap for ID scrolls went from 99 to 999, hence there was a reason for the increase in the stack cap that had little or nothing to do with player convenience...

    After salvage was done away with some ‘treasure’ items were able to be stacked to higher caps (100 from 20) than they were previously, so we all know it can be done – why it hasn’t been done, simply for player convenience, particularly with all of the other “changes” in Mod 16 is just a mystery to me.

    Since it appears players will be able to begin the refinement process for items, which to be successful usually requires P-wards or a coalescent ward, I merely speculate Neverwinter will increase the P-ward stack size so players who would normally become frustrated by the number of failed attempts and consequent loss of P-wars to the point of walking away from the process to try again later (which could potentially positively or negatively effect the chances for success)– will instead stack 999 P-wards into the process and not discover their loss until the process is complete. On items with a higher potential for loss, this increases the impetus to buy C-wards or more P-wards if a player chooses to take the chance of another potential loss, this becoming a potential AD sink or possibly a way to increase revenue sans a player having an abundance of AD's.

    The Neverwinter PTB (powers that be) have repeatedly said they want to find ways to decrease what they consider a “glut” of Astral Diamonds and Gold in the game…

    Neverwinter has easily implemented a Gold sink by eliminating or decreasing drops for several items that are purchased from merchants with gold, from quest, campaign dungeon and skirmish runs and lets not forget some professions chores that now cost gold when they didn't previously… One way they have implemented an AD sink is by eliminating salvage conversions to AD – but I suspect this wasn’t something that effected a majority of players, however the changes to refinement and P-ward stacking will no doubt effect more players... so the AD sink appears to be a work in progress with my speculated stacking of P-wards to 999 being just another step.

    DD~
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User
    bobo#5090 said:

    havlocke said:

    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
    Now if only they'd do that for all the other HAMSTER I got lying about in my inventories .....
    Well, just curious, what was the inventory lie and who lied to you?
    It was that dirty leprechaun from the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog.
    I have found that you do need additional aggro solo(not into the preview with my PC OP yet). But he runs the free wizard comp you get at lvl10, and without the additional aggro, the enemies follow my comp, and without a sling to hit them from afar, I need the aggro to bring them in range of my mace.
    LOL what?? Sorry but what are you talking about when quoting me? Did I miss something?
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User
    dionchi said:

    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
    Now if only they'd do that for all the other HAMSTER I got lying about in my inventories .....
    I didn't predict Cryptic would increase the stack cap for preservation wards for player convenience, I think they will increase the P-ward stack size because I hear players will be able to plug in a stack of P-wards, start the "Refine" process and juts walk away. The refinement process will keep attempting to level up the item until:

    1) There is a successful upgrade -

    2) The player runs out of P-wards -
    ***"Surprise! Your stack of 999 P-wards was used up trying to refine your [insert item name here] to level ... while you were gone".

    Then of course most players will have little choice but to buy more P-wards, (looks to me someone discovered a new 'AD sink' and possibly a way to increase revenue for the game)...

    I don't care if they have increased the P-ward stack size to 999 or if it is actually just; 'random chance', I doubt I'll ever be willing to stack 999 P-wards on something and just walk away - hoping - the refinement process doesn't munch them all while I was off doing something else.

    Call me a cynic but there you have my suspicions ~
    Hmm, you might want to read most of the previous comments on this thread. Things like the streak breaker mechanic. Etc. Being able to allow you to stack 999 P-wards is all win. There is no evil reason to do so. There are lots of things to complain about, this is not one of them.
    I think you misunderstood, I'm not "complaining" about P-wards (or anything else) potentially being stacked to 999... It seems you've mistaken my casual speculation for a complaint, nothing could be farther from the truth.

    It is my considered opinion that any item with identical stats (including armor, weapons, apparel, character accessories like rings dyes, transmutes and so forth, along with other items – runestones, enchantments, etc.) should all be able to be stacked to 999. After VIP started giving player ID scrolls, suddenly the stack cap for ID scrolls went from 99 to 999, hence there was a reason for the increase in the stack cap that had little or nothing to do with player convenience...

    After salvage was done away with some ‘treasure’ items were able to be stacked to higher caps (100 from 20) than they were previously, so we all know it can be done – why it hasn’t been done, simply for player convenience, particularly with all of the other “changes” in Mod 16 is just a mystery to me.

    Since it appears players will be able to begin the refinement process for items, which to be successful usually requires P-wards or a coalescent ward, I merely speculate Neverwinter will increase the P-ward stack size so players who would normally become frustrated by the number of failed attempts and consequent loss of P-wars to the point of walking away from the process to try again later (which could potentially positively or negatively effect the chances for success)– will instead stack 999 P-wards into the process and not discover their loss until the process is complete. On items with a higher potential for loss, this increases the impetus to buy C-wards or more P-wards if a player chooses to take the chance of another potential loss, this becoming a potential AD sink or possibly a way to increase revenue sans a player having an abundance of AD's.

    The Neverwinter PTB (powers that be) have repeatedly said they want to find ways to decrease what they consider a “glut” of Astral Diamonds and Gold in the game…

    Neverwinter has easily implemented a Gold sink by eliminating or decreasing drops for several items that are purchased from merchants with gold, from quest, campaign dungeon and skirmish runs and lets not forget some professions chores that now cost gold when they didn't previously… One way they have implemented an AD sink is by eliminating salvage conversions to AD – but I suspect this wasn’t something that effected a majority of players, however the changes to refinement and P-ward stacking will no doubt effect more players... so the AD sink appears to be a work in progress with my speculated stacking of P-wards to 999 being just another step.

    In that case, yes sorry, I completely misunderstood you. But you might have misunderstood the comments you are basing it on too.

    Firstly, WE are the ones asking for the stack size to increase to 999, not Cryptic. If they were being Machiavellian about it, they'd keep it at 99 so it takes up more inventory space, encouraging ppl to buy more bags.

    Secondly, with the Streak Breaker of 150, this means there will be no refinement that will ever take more than 150 wards.

    And Finally, afaik, if you start the refinement process it will eat halfway thru the 2nd stack of Pwards if you get that unlucky.
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Posts: 1,373Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    dionchi said:

    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    I predict the preservation ward stack cap will be upgraded from 99 to 999 because of this change... we shall see.

    Great call. Good prediction :)
    Now if only they'd do that for all the other HAMSTER I got lying about in my inventories .....
    I didn't predict Cryptic would increase the stack cap for preservation wards for player convenience, I think they will increase the P-ward stack size because I hear players will be able to plug in a stack of P-wards, start the "Refine" process and juts walk away. The refinement process will keep attempting to level up the item until:

    1) There is a successful upgrade -

    2) The player runs out of P-wards -
    ***"Surprise! Your stack of 999 P-wards was used up trying to refine your [insert item name here] to level ... while you were gone".

    Then of course most players will have little choice but to buy more P-wards, (looks to me someone discovered a new 'AD sink' and possibly a way to increase revenue for the game)...

    I don't care if they have increased the P-ward stack size to 999 or if it is actually just; 'random chance', I doubt I'll ever be willing to stack 999 P-wards on something and just walk away - hoping - the refinement process doesn't munch them all while I was off doing something else.

    Call me a cynic but there you have my suspicions ~
    Nice try, but the max p-wqrd use is 150 on a 1% item.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,745Member Arc User
    dionchi said:


    I don't care if they have increased the P-ward stack size to 999 or if it is actually just; 'random chance', I doubt I'll ever be willing to stack 999 P-wards on something and just walk away - hoping - the refinement process doesn't munch them all while I was off doing something else.

    It does not take long for one to see how horrible the RNG can be. The streak-breaker is pretty much required with the auto-upgrade-till-done system. Without the streak-beaker, only an idiot would use it. Even I will use it. but I will wait a few weeks before trying it. If the system ate someone's 999 stack, I'm sure they will scream bloody murder on the forum.
  • havlockehavlocke Posts: 194Member Arc User

    dionchi said:


    I don't care if they have increased the P-ward stack size to 999 or if it is actually just; 'random chance', I doubt I'll ever be willing to stack 999 P-wards on something and just walk away - hoping - the refinement process doesn't munch them all while I was off doing something else.

    It does not take long for one to see how horrible the RNG can be. The streak-breaker is pretty much required with the auto-upgrade-till-done system. Without the streak-beaker, only an idiot would use it. Even I will use it. but I will wait a few weeks before trying it. If the system ate someone's 999 stack, I'm sure they will scream bloody murder on the forum.
    What is it with people's paranoia atm? The streak breaker is 150. If it ate the whole 999 stack then its bugged and is NOT meant to happen. File a ticket. All screaming would get you is more people saying "file a ticket".
  • krumple01krumple01 Posts: 489Member Arc User
    havlocke said:


    What is it with people's paranoia atm? The streak breaker is 150. If it ate the whole 999 stack then its bugged and is NOT meant to happen. File a ticket. All screaming would get you is more people saying "file a ticket".

    At a 1% upgrade success rate it is not improbable that you could use a stack of 999 pres wards and still fail ignoring a 150 streak breaker.

    The thing is with % chance is that you are never guaranteed the upgrade. It just becomes more probable as you spend wards due to the statistical odds.

    I notice that players are more than happy to complain when they go beyond their success odds on an upgrade but are more than happy not to complain if they get an upgrade on the first try. Where are these complaints? If over use of wards going beyond the statistical odds is so bad then why don't players complain when they beat the odds?

    Just shows the hypocrisy in a typical player who complains.

  • dionchidionchi Posts: 580Member Arc User
    edited March 24
    I suppose it's my fault for not knowing about the "streak breaker"... never heard of it and didn't know it exists.

    But it's nice to know no one is going to try to trash someone because they are unfamiliar with something in the game instead of attempting to explain it to them.
    DD~
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,716Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 24
    dionchi said:

    I suppose it's my fault for not knowing about the "streak breaker"... never heard of it and didn't know it exists.

    But it's nice to know no one is going to try to trash someone because they are unfamiliar with something in the game instead of attempting to explain it to them.

    No, "streak breaker" does not exist in the game at this moment. That is the reason I created this thread with the title "wow! Finally" (and posted what it is in the first post) because there will be a streak breaker in mod 16.
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Posts: 1,373Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    krumple01 said:

    havlocke said:


    What is it with people's paranoia atm? The streak breaker is 150. If it ate the whole 999 stack then its bugged and is NOT meant to happen. File a ticket. All screaming would get you is more people saying "file a ticket".

    At a 1% upgrade success rate it is not improbable that you could use a stack of 999 pres wards and still fail ignoring a 150 streak breaker.

    The thing is with % chance is that you are never guaranteed the upgrade. It just becomes more probable as you spend wards due to the statistical odds.

    I notice that players are more than happy to complain when they go beyond their success odds on an upgrade but are more than happy not to complain if they get an upgrade on the first try. Where are these complaints? If over use of wards going beyond the statistical odds is so bad then why don't players complain when they beat the odds?

    Just shows the hypocrisy in a typical player who complains.

    Nope. See havlocke above yours.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,716Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 24
    krumple01 said:

    havlocke said:


    What is it with people's paranoia atm? The streak breaker is 150. If it ate the whole 999 stack then its bugged and is NOT meant to happen. File a ticket. All screaming would get you is more people saying "file a ticket".

    At a 1% upgrade success rate it is not improbable that you could use a stack of 999 pres wards and still fail ignoring a 150 streak breaker.

    The thing is with % chance is that you are never guaranteed the upgrade. It just becomes more probable as you spend wards due to the statistical odds.

    I notice that players are more than happy to complain when they go beyond their success odds on an upgrade but are more than happy not to complain if they get an upgrade on the first try. Where are these complaints? If over use of wards going beyond the statistical odds is so bad then why don't players complain when they beat the odds?

    Just shows the hypocrisy in a typical player who complains.

    This thread is about mod 16 will have a streak breaker and I believe the dev said for 1% chance the streak breaker is 150. If the item is tried 151 times, the 151th times will be and must be a success. You can consider it switches it from 1% to 100%. The streak breaker counter is built into each individual item in mod 16. Hence, for the 1% item, if you don't get it success after 151 times in mod 16, it will be a bug.
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