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Official M16: General Feedback

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    kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    kangkeok said:

    adinosii said:


    To me this looks like a (very misguided) effort to prevent new players from making "bad" choices, but the result is that it removes much of the fun from character building, and may increase the likelihood of veteran players leaving.

    Nah.. they are doing this prevent power creep. They are splitting all the feat up so player could no longer combine all the BIS feat together to create a BIS cookie cutter build. Mod15 is all about picking the best feat and putting them together. Picking the best encounter and spam them together and Wham! 1-2hit boss. No different with playing a high striker. Just gather everything up and smash it.

    If u ask me about build flexibility? I say both mod doesn't have much to look from end game perspective. Mod 16 is restricted by the option given to player. Mod15 is dictate by the meta optimization. Anything that is not in meta, isn't viable. Though the effect that the both generate are quite the opposite. Mod 16 reduces the power creep by dividing powerful feat in sets of option and between paragon. While mod 15 encourage power creep by allowing the player to horde all the best feat together. And the developer no doubt are trying to reduce the power creep.
    so this is why my stealth based build that has nothing to do with powercreep got wiped out?
    ah and why my 20k mobility has been reduced to 9k?
    ... i am super upset.

    edit added here..

    everything i have on mod 15 in feats is important to me.
    I think Asterdahl answered that some where later from my post u quoted. Probably try to read on.
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    obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    kangkeok said:


    While i understand the concern but what's the point of enforcing the 3/1/1 class role rule by asterdahl in the 1st place? when people can just go private que to avoid everything. U might as well propose asterdahl to abolish that rule.

    2 reasons spring to mind:
    Bonus AD - you only get AD from chests for private queue.
    No one is around you normally play with and you want to do a dungeon

    Basically 3/1/1 only matters when the people you are playing with are strangers. Private queue has, since its implementation, existed as a means of ignoring the 3/1/1 restriction.

    There is really no reason for public queues not to enforce a "You must stay on the Loadout you queued in on" rule, that stops a bunch of things and puts everyone on an equal footing. Its important to keep in mind that a significant part of the goal for the Mod is to make it more likely that you and 4 other randoms can clear appropriate content.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
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    kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User

    kangkeok said:


    While i understand the concern but what's the point of enforcing the 3/1/1 class role rule by asterdahl in the 1st place? when people can just go private que to avoid everything. U might as well propose asterdahl to abolish that rule.

    2 reasons spring to mind:
    Bonus AD - you only get AD from chests for private queue.
    No one is around you normally play with and you want to do a dungeon

    Basically 3/1/1 only matters when the people you are playing with are strangers. Private queue has, since its implementation, existed as a means of ignoring the 3/1/1 restriction.

    There is really no reason for public queues not to enforce a "You must stay on the Loadout you queued in on" rule, that stops a bunch of things and puts everyone on an equal footing. Its important to keep in mind that a significant part of the goal for the Mod is to make it more likely that you and 4 other randoms can clear appropriate content.
    So u mean premade group can only que for specific dungeon and no longer able to que for random que to earn bonus AD? If so, then I suppose that's fair.
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    adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User


    There is really no reason for public queues not to enforce a "You must stay on the Loadout you queued in on" rule, that stops a bunch of things and puts everyone on an equal footing. Its important to keep in mind that a significant part of the goal for the Mod is to make it more likely that you and 4 other randoms can clear appropriate content.

    You are probably right there. I was thinking about the need to be able to switch loadouts if the situation demanded it, but yeah....it's really not that much of an issue....so why complicate things for something that may only happen 1% of the time?

    So, yea.... enforce 3/1/1 with no role swapping in random groups, but allow unlimited swapping in private queues.
    Hoping for improvements...
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    silvergryphsilvergryph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User



    Oh heck, I'd forgotten about the fact that my PC is human.

    What changes did they make to races anyway?

    Human racial adjustments are now:

    Versatile Defense:+250 all Offensive and Defensive Stats
    Ability Scores: +3 to any Ability Score
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    durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    > @kangkeok said:
    > While i understand the concern but what's the point of enforcing the 3/1/1 class role rule by asterdahl in the 1st place? when people can just go private que to avoid everything. U might as well propose asterdahl to abolish that rule.

    Isnt the RAD Bonus the reward they give out for doing 3-1-1? Private Queue works just fine ever since it came out.
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    ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    > @deterrant#6687 said:
    > Just force 1 healer, 1 tank, 3 dps, pick what you are when queuing, you cannot que if you are not in the right paragon spec you wish to que as.
    >
    > Ex. If you are in the Cleric DPS paragon you cannot que as healer, if you are a ranger you cannot que anything but DPS, and so on and so forth. how hard would this be?.
    >
    > Or let the system set you a role automated, if you play a tank paragon you will be a tank in the que not DPS, etc.
    >
    > When you que in private, you can bring what you want in the dungeon.

    Listen, im a paladin main and I had a pretty effective dps build until this horrible module. And if I know one thing about this game, NEVER let people only play their paragon path's role, unless you give every class 3 paragon paths, one for each role. Right now, it's a horrible thing to do. And that's what the devs are doing. Cheers
    (Sigh)
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    jawlswyno#5893 jawlswyno Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    There seems to be an occassional issue with companion stats where in zoning doesn't reflect the bonuses provided by my companion until I dismiss and resummon the companion. my usual armor penetration is 36000. It has gone down after I zone into a dungeon and doesn't change until after resummoning.
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    schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    My general thought about the new mod and classes is, that some threads get a feedback and are responded by a dev over100 times and others get no response over tons of pages. Not even a minimum feedback to even get a discussion running, wich just let's them dry out, since digging in the fog is not that encouraging to go on testing stuff on preview.
    Sounds as critzism, true, and it´s ment to be that way.
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    c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    blur#5900 said:

    @noworries#8859 Can you please put a limit of how many Scroll of Mass life can be used in a Dungeon? maybe 3xMass Scroll of Life per character?

    Why? I am curious what this would accomplish?
    People would stop ignoring mechanics and red zones.
    No, they wouldn't. They would instead lash on healer or tank or dps because there's not enough dps, then they would leave or ragequit, then they would come to the forum and rage more on healers and tanks and dps.

    It is a typical thing. Or they would say that they can't see red circles and tell me not to use Icy Terrain because they can't see red circles.

    justalifeofawizard

    You know, people don't even care to learn which buff the little square gives them, but they sure know how to play "meta" and demand things around without knowing anything besides their precious meta. Which changes. And they are sad now. And I'm happy. For the most part, yes.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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    chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    When it comes to role swapping, here is a suggestion @asterdahl .

    For private queues, let people do whatever they want.

    For public queues, let people swap roles, but only after a fixed amount of time has passed. Say, on the order of 45-60 minutes.
    That will cut down on abusing the system, with e.g. a Fighter/Barbie queueing as tank but then switching to DPS, thereby depriving the group of tanking.
    The time limit ensures that pure DPS roles are not excluded from public queue, since average/decent parties would be expected to finish the content anyway before the time limit has been reached, regardless if the DPS players are Wizards or Barbarians. They wouldn't have to take advantage of role swapping anyway and so all DPSers are welcome (all else equal of course).
    But the time limit also permits weaker parties who are struggling at boss fights, and are therefore taking a long time, to adopt a new strategy if necessary that would more fully utilize the group's strengths.
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    littledanger#4115 littledanger Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    bpstuart said:

    I haven't said this explicitly and i know i am not the only one to think this.
    But if y'all use the Mod16 changes to insert dirty monitization schemes and start hampering progress in order to sell solutions to Dev made problems, players will be so monumentally pissed off that it could lead to the end. This has been a persistent fear of mine since i found out about Mod 16.

    Please PLEASE do not do that.

    I love this game and want to stick with it but if i feel like the game is trying to squeeze my coin-purse i am more likely to bail then pay out. My Experiences with the zen shop have not been great and i only engaged in it to support the game. I tolerated and used lock-boxes to support the game but i often get such trash from them, that if lock-boxs are joined by some other insidious cash grab my spending is going to go to zero.

    If you guys need funds, make spending enticing but not compulsory to appreciate the game.

    TL:DR: Don't create problems so you can sell solutions, gaming has more than enough of that and players are tired of it.

    I believe the vast majority of players see it, just as this. And the eventual port to a mobile playing platform.
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    theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    bpstuart said:

    I haven't said this explicitly and i know i am not the only one to think this.
    But if y'all use the Mod16 changes to insert dirty monitization schemes and start hampering progress in order to sell solutions to Dev made problems, players will be so monumentally pissed off that it could lead to the end. This has been a persistent fear of mine since i found out about Mod 16.

    Please PLEASE do not do that.

    I love this game and want to stick with it but if i feel like the game is trying to squeeze my coin-purse i am more likely to bail then pay out. My Experiences with the zen shop have not been great and i only engaged in it to support the game. I tolerated and used lock-boxes to support the game but i often get such trash from them, that if lock-boxs are joined by some other insidious cash grab my spending is going to go to zero.

    If you guys need funds, make spending enticing but not compulsory to appreciate the game.

    TL:DR: Don't create problems so you can sell solutions, gaming has more than enough of that and players are tired of it.

    Well, if something leads to the end of Neverwinter, maybe that means that the Neverwinter franchise will be free for something better and greater! Sounds like a win in my book!

    ::Is clearly still salty that Neverwinter was not Neverwinter Nights 3. C'mon Tomu, get over it already.::
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    bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    Really enjoyed fighting the Syltheed of the Deep T-rex. It was a rather challenging and engaging fight with my Nerfed character. ( Yes it is a nerf, i am weaker though it is not a bad thing in this case )
    Don't know if it is part of a quest or anything but after finally defeating it. all i got was a black pearl, Maybe up the goody drops from the bugger.
    though, as much fun as i had with him. Bug, Syltheed of the Deep will occasionally fully heal and leave combat, no longer being aggressive and becomes immune to damage. I fired an icicle up his butt and it walked off like it was nothing. This occurred twice and it was a little irritating.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
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    lordseth1985lordseth1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 319 Arc User
    Wel,, i still dunno why cap Crit% and Deflect% at 50%... I mean, my main is a Rogue (and even playing with other classes, Rogues are my favorite class/playstile), a class that relies on deflection and high crit chances to win, while "sacrificing" defense and high damage. So, we should be a class with low damage but hi-crit% and deflect% and fast attacks so we could do our job properly, opposed to barbarians/fighters who should do a lot of damage slower than us, but having more damage mitigation.

    My question is why cap Crit% and deflect%? To me it makes no sense at all...
    Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
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    jufesjufes Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    Companion damage far outpaces that of Players. My con artist his for 42k on a crit with each strike consistantly and I can occasionally get a Disintegrate to hit that hard on a far longer CD. The companion is only geared with some +4 equipment and rank 5-8 enchants. The con artist is a level 40 legendary and the CW is 19k with 60k power for comparison.

    The Human racial is in dire need of an overhaul. 250 to all stats, as the only bonus, in nothing in comparison to some of the other classes who gain 1500 to a certain stat in addition to a damage, and or healing bonus. I originally rerolled several of my characters to human for the extra feat points so they are all now suffering due to this.

    As noted above the scaling the some areas such as Dread ring is off as it is easier to kill enemies in the new area than it is in older module zones.
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    kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    lowjohn said:

    kangkeok said:


    So u mean premade group can only que for specific dungeon and no longer able to que for random que to earn bonus AD? If so, then I suppose that's fair.

    Uh, RIGHT NOW your premade group can only queue Random if they go Public, and going Public means having 3 DPS, 1 tank, 1 healer. So this isn't a change.
    Alright, I may have misunderstood the system there somewhere. If that is the case, then I can see no reason to change it. I'm only worried that player might abuse it if there are no difference between public and private. For that I apologize. My intention are to substitute asterdahl locked down role in dungeon run with a more flexible system.

    Instead of getting a role locked down in dungeon which making it impossible to switch sole between during dungeon run mechanically, I'm proposing a debuff system to substitute that lock down. So if someone want to switch role with someone else, they can do so without asking the permission from everyone in the party through voting system. They just need to communicate in chat. The -95% debuff are just there for a guide to maintain the tank, healer and dps condition of running the dungeon.

    In example, if u are the tank and wanna switch role with a dps in ur party in the middle of the dungeon, u just need to tell him. If he agreed, u can just switch to dps and u'll get the -95% debuff for not having a tank in ur party. But once he switches to tank, the debuff is gone. All this are for smoother transition. Yes, it can be done by voting system but if someone is afk, u'll have to wait.


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    kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited March 2019



    It is a typical thing. Or they would say that they can't see red circles and tell me not to use Icy Terrain because they can't see red circles.

    justalifeofawizard

    This is a problem that stretches long before time and have been giving player lots of problem. I could only hope that the developer fix it by making the red zone to overlap the icy terrain animation and not the other way around.
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    mtqualified#8841 mtqualified Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    Not sure where to put this, so ill put it here. Currently the only place to get yellow dye is from an old fashion pack, and its a rare drop to get yellow from it, currently the dye is 80k on the auction house. For obvious reasons Im wondering if there is a plan in the future to add more dyes into the trade bar store, as orange isnt in there either. Its ridiculous to pay 80k for a base color dye in my opinion. As well as there isnt even an orange dye in the game that i could find, seems a bit silly really. Figured id put something here in case noone else had mentioned it.
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    autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,134 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    So I have a question. What the heck should we on console be doing now?

    I have 12 toons. My main is almost 17K and as high as I am going to take her till M16.

    However, I have 11 other toons all in the 12-14K range and I don’t know what to do with them. Many of their gear/enchants/artefacts are geared at stats that are going away (Life steal, recovery, movement, AC, etc) I feel like there is nothing I can do right now except play for boons for the few left I have to get. So, if a dev is reading this, what should I be doing? Just not play for months until Mod16 comes out? Please tell me?

    Also, I have a very hard time believing that you devs made so many changes with the actual player base in mind. For example, why did you make it so we have to trade in enchants? Why not make the current ones relevant/meaningful so people don’t have to trade them in? And why force us not to use them on companions? I have 12 toons all with companions with six enchainments none of them lower than 10, most 12 or higher? And its even worse when you consider now I have 100,000s of RP points that I can’t use for months and months because upgrading them is a waste of money/resources?

    I have a few toons that have all teal artefacts that I spent tons and tons or real money and time upgrading, again with stats that are now being nerfed? Tell me, if you can, how is this fair? Are you going to refund my 100s of dollars I spent on them? Am I going to get something that is equally as usable/relevant in mod16 for them or am I just screwed? Please don’t tell me it wasn’t possible because we all know that is not true. I just really want you to explain how this is being done for our benefit or will you just admit it’s a money grab? I don’t care either way, just be honest with us.

    Tell us, what the heck should be doing?
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
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    dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User

    So I have a question. What the heck should we on console be doing now?

    I have 12 toons. My main is almost 17K and as high as I am going to take her till M16.

    However, I have 11 other toons all in the 12-14K range and I don’t know what to do with them. Many of their gear/enchants/artefacts are geared at stats that are going away (Life steal, recovery, movement, AC, etc) I feel like there is nothing I can do right now except play for boons for the few left I have to get. So, if a dev is reading this, what should I be doing? Just not play for months until Mod16 comes out? Please tell me?

    Also, I have a very hard time believing that you devs made so many changes with the actual player base in mind. For example, why did you make it so we have to trade in enchants? Why not make the current ones relevant/meaningful so people don’t have to trade them in? And why force us not to use them on companions? I have 12 toons all with companions with six enchainments none of them lower than 10, most 12 or higher? And its even worse when you consider now I have 100,000s of RP points that I can’t use for months and months because upgrading them is a waste of money/resources?

    I have a few toons that have all teal artefacts that I spent tons and tons or real money and time upgrading, again with stats that are now being nerfed? Tell me, if you can, how is this fair? Are you going to refund my 100s of dollars I spent on them? Am I going to get something that is equally as usable/relevant in mod16 for them or am I just screwed? Please don’t tell me it wasn’t possible because we all know that is not true. I just really want you to explain how this is being done for our benefit or will you just admit it’s a money grab? I don’t care either way, just be honest with us.

    Tell us, what the heck should be doing?

    Tooks only play support classes, so cannot speak about your DPS toons.
    But you cannot go wrong by focusing on completing all boons and ranking up bonding stones on as many of your main toons as you can.
    boon points and bonding runes are the only absolute "you will still need" in Mod 16.

    Gear is not important as anything you grind for now will be 2nd tier when Mod16 drops on console.

    imho, read the preview Mod16 threads carefully for your main toons.
    You will get a general picture of which enchants you need. Rank those up.
    Also, get companion gear for all your main toons.
    Can't go wrong with those actions.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
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    dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    kangkeok said:



    It is a typical thing. Or they would say that they can't see red circles and tell me not to use Icy Terrain because they can't see red circles.

    justalifeofawizard

    This is a problem that stretches long before time and have been giving player lots of problem. I could only hope that the developer fix it by making the red zone to overlap the icy terrain animation and not the other way around.
    Yeah, icey terrain obscuring red circles has been a complaint since I started playing (2013).
    Not likely to change anytime soon.
    Better question: is Icey Terrain the best encounter for your Mod16 build?
    I don't know the answer to that. Been busy on Fighter and cleric preview.
    I suggest reading the Wizard preview thread start to finish.
    Get a feel for your optimal loudout. Focus on your ideal build first.
    Then, if Icey Terrain is still best for your loudout, consider that question.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
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    dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User

    My general thought about the new mod and classes is, that some threads get a feedback and are responded by a dev over100 times and others get no response over tons of pages. Not even a minimum feedback to even get a discussion running, wich just let's them dry out, since digging in the fog is not that encouraging to go on testing stuff on preview.
    Sounds as critzism, true, and it´s ment to be that way.

    I've only had time to follow main preview thread, Fighter and Cleric so cannot speak for all preview threads.

    On the former two @asterdahl has been reading and responding like a beast.
    He is on until 4AM PT every night, personally responding to dozens of our comments.

    Not being a company shill, here.
    I criticize CS as much (or more) then most players.
    Just want to be fair. Asterdahl at least has been very responsive.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
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    kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    .

    kangkeok said:



    It is a typical thing. Or they would say that they can't see red circles and tell me not to use Icy Terrain because they can't see red circles.

    justalifeofawizard

    This is a problem that stretches long before time and have been giving player lots of problem. I could only hope that the developer fix it by making the red zone to overlap the icy terrain animation and not the other way around.
    Yeah, icey terrain obscuring red circles has been a complaint since I started playing (2013).
    Not likely to change anytime soon.
    Better question: is Icey Terrain the best encounter for your Mod16 build?
    I don't know the answer to that. Been busy on Fighter and cleric preview.
    I suggest reading the Wizard preview thread start to finish.
    Get a feel for your optimal loudout. Focus on your ideal build first.
    Then, if Icey Terrain is still best for your loudout, consider that question.
    It doesn't matter. Its still an inconvenience that the developer need to look at regardless especially its so long over due. Its only fair to everyone, be it the person who use icy terrain or the group he is in.
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    autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,134 Arc User


    Tooks only play support classes, so cannot speak about your DPS toons.
    But you cannot go wrong by focusing on completing all boons and ranking up bonding stones on as many of your main toons as you can.
    boon points and bonding runes are the only absolute "you will still need" in Mod 16.

    Gear is not important as anything you grind for now will be 2nd tier when Mod16 drops on console.

    imho, read the preview Mod16 threads carefully for your main toons.
    You will get a general picture of which enchants you need. Rank those up.
    Also, get companion gear for all your main toons.
    Can't go wrong with those actions.
    A great place to get comp gear is the undying lock box's Bloodied Companion Pack I am pretty sure they upped the drop rate in those as I am getting great stuff and I am already nearly set for that thank goodness.

    But what I am supposed to do with the normal enchants (non-bonding stones) already using for them? I don't have a need for them and will end up with dozens of 10+ ranked enchants I can't use.

    Thanks for the input I will try to figure out what enchants I should be upgrading.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
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    jufesjufes Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    Additionally the nerf to the legendary snail mount dropping it from a 25% AP gain over 10 seconds down to 10% seems to remove its usefulness altogether. The active for the snail was already underwhelming in comparison to other legendary mounts. As it take about 40-50 seconds now to charge a daily power, saving 4-5 seconds in the process seems pointless when you could add a mount with power or crit and see the effects constantly in addition to having a useful active mount power.
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    bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    Honestly this entire eliminating primary stats thing makes absolutely no sense alongside the " We want to reduce wrong choices" sentiment i have heard presented to back it up. Now there are more variables than before to consider since a player starting off isn't going to know what stats do what and how they effect gameplay. Having a suggested " This class benefits from this" indication is more accessible. Asterdahl has twice argued against the meta optimizing aspect iin replies to me but you are just shifting the meta to something else. Suddenly it is ability scores instead of feats and the Meta-masterminds continue on their old schtick with a new system and noting has changed in that regard but it has drasticly changed in information conveyed to the player.

    Also the bonuses the stats give make no sense, How is Intelligence giving me control resistance but instead of something like strength or dexterity? You could argue "you are reasoning out of it" but the same could be arguement made for the others stats "you are nimble enough to keep your feet" or "You are strong enough to pull free"

    Tying preferred stats to classes made sense for the sake of continuity of D&D but since that is going away you are going to have to come up with a new way to explain what each does and how it effects you. You took our feats but then made stat effects less intuitive and have done nothing to eliminate the Meta-gaming and everything to confuse people new to the system which is the opposite of your intended goal.

    so what gives? Is there another reason you are doing it like this? if so tell us. Be honest, is it to simplify the code needed and reduce maintenance? Is it to make designing new classes easier so you don't have to code for different stats doing different things for different classes? Be upfront because the reasons i keep hearing don't ring true to me.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
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