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M16 announcements. This is exactly what the game needs! Finally!

dolreydolrey Posts: 614Member Arc User
edited February 24 in Player Feedback (PC)
Few minutes earlier I read all of official announcements of m16. And after all time playing broken content and after all threads with feedback at this forum I can say just one thing... FINALLY!!! THANK YOU!!!




------
I realise which problems this game has from the point of view of mmorpg player. Of course these 2 problems consist of much much more number of different small mechanics which were broken for all these years but still here is a short generalised list:

1) Broken class system. Actually this is the only game where no one needs healers to heal. Now there are no tanks there are no healers only supports. If you think that this is normal then you probably don't know anything about how classes in mmorpgs should work.
2) Overcap of stats wich trivialise most part of content. Needless to say a lot of words here. Of course new players don't face with this problem but experienced players do.

No matter how developers are going fix 1-2 classes with each module no matter which dungeons they will create no matter how they are going to rework mastercraft or something else till the moment when they will rework battle process because 90% of gameplay is fighting and these 90% are broken.

Few days earlier developers announced that they finally are going to fix these 90% of the game. It had NEVER happened before. NEVER BEFORE!! I read all of their announcements and as player with experience in this game I am absolutely agree with EVERYTHING written there because game will never be fixed and will never become interesting and challenging again for everyone till the momemt when all those things will be reworked.

That is why I thank them. For finally making right decisions.
Post edited by dolrey on

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Comments

  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 999Member Arc User

    Yes they've listened to the 1% of elitists. Most of my alliances are up in arms and probably leaving.

    For me, the WORST thing you can do is to force people to completely relearn and rebuild characters they've played in broadly similar fashion for 4-6 years (depending on when the class came out). Also levelling, respecing and relearning 16 characters just has no attraction for me.

    Removing lifesteal for example is going to turn SW into a completely different class, and ruin a lot of lower IL peoples' solo experience in places like Chult.



    Maybe the sky is falling? Who knows :)

    But removing lifesteal does seem to hit solo players hard. I live [and die] by it. Lets wait and see.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Posts: 3,748Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Ha, thanking the devs prematurely?

    For all we know they've dumbed down everything and toke away the identity of classes and builds.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    tom#6998 said:

    Yes they've listened to the 1% of elitists. Most of my alliances are up in arms and probably leaving.

    For me, the WORST thing you can do is to force people to completely relearn and rebuild characters they've played in broadly similar fashion for 4-6 years (depending on when the class came out). Also levelling, respecing and relearning 16 characters just has no attraction for me.

    Removing lifesteal for example is going to turn SW into a completely different class, and ruin a lot of lower IL peoples' solo experience in places like Chult.



    They acutally listened to Players who play the game. Wait with the complaining until u actually can try out the stuff on Preview (which jugding by your comment u will prolly be to lazy to do anyways). Mod 16 might be what saves the game afterall.
    I've actually been unable to use preview up to now, but recently got a new laptop which will allow me to get on there (small and full SSD on my desktop). I intend to take a look.

    My plan was not to leave on release, but to play one character through all the new content and see what the new world is like.

    As somebody who has played this game several hours a day since beta, and sunk many £s into it, I really don't want to leave, I hope it works, but my pet hate is devs saying "We're rendering your entire playstyle you've had for years invalid".
  • dolreydolrey Posts: 614Member Arc User
    edited February 20
    Currently everything associated with battle mechanics in this game is completely broken. And I don't understand what is bad in fact that developers finally decided to improve battle process and fix mechanics of all classes what never happened before.

    Ofcourse you will have to change your builds but otherwise if these changes would not happen we would continue splashing in sh*t called overcap of stats broken mechanics and trivial content etc.

  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    dolrey said:

    Currently everything associated with battle mechanics in this game is completely broken. And I don't understand what is bad in fact that developers finally decided to improve battle process and fix mechanics of all classes what never happened before.



    Ofcourse you will have to change your builds but otherwise if these changes would not happen we would continue splashing in sh*t called overcap of stats broken mechanics and trivial content etc.

    And this is what you don't see, content is not trivial for 90%+ of the playerbase. I've not seen stats from this game, but I used to play another MMO where the devs in defence against the elitists complaining about lack of meaningful and challenging endgame did publish some. It was a somewhat different game model so not directly comparable (levelling was actually fun, there were multiple paths to do it, it was VERY alt friendly). I forget the exact numbers, but a very small percentage (certainly <5, might have been <1) of active accounts actually had an endgame ready character and most didn't even have a max level character. The elitists were a VERY vocal minority.

    Changing a build is fine, completely changing playstyle is not in my book.
  • dolreydolrey Posts: 614Member Arc User
    > @minotaur2857
    You just have to equip your character till 15-16k and you will understand all the problems of this game.

  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    dolrey said:

    > @minotaur2857

    You just have to equip your character till 15-16k and you will understand all the problems of this game.

    Before the removal of 500 IL from the PvP SH boon I had a 13K+ of each class, and I have 4 or 5 between 15 and 16K. I understand some of the problems, but I happen to think most of the issues are created right at the top end by the way buffs force multiply, and that stuff is not broken for a large majority of the playerbase, just in very high end teams.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,108Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    You think this is what the game needs? An overhaul players didn't ask for, promising things we have not asked for?

    More power and HP creep? More forcing us to rely on support classes when there aren't enough to fill the needs of people queueing? Taking away lifesteal so we'll die all the time in solo content and have to buy consumable healing items for zen? Ignoring longstanding bugs while they lie to us and tell us they're working as intended, as they have with +! crafting items, still not fixed after three months?

    No. What this game needs is a dev team that listens to player input. It needs one that takes accountability for its mistakes and then fixes them before launching new content. It needs class balancing, a ton of bug fixes, and a huge turn away from forcing players to rely on a clique of friends and guildies to run content above the intermediate queue level. What it needs is to become fun and playable again for people who have to work and sleep 8 hours a day and socialize in real life.

    This team couldn't handle something as simple as mod 15 and they haven't fixed it after three months. They certainly can't handle this.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 2,064Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    You think this is what the game needs? An overhaul players didn't ask for, promising things we have not asked for?

    More power and HP creep? More forcing us to rely on support classes when there aren't enough to fill the needs of people queueing? Taking away lifesteal so we'll die all the time in solo content and have to buy consumable healing items for zen? Ignoring longstanding bugs while they lie to us and tell us they're working as intended, as they have with +! crafting items, still not fixed after three months?

    No. What this game needs is a dev team that listens to player input. It needs one that takes accountability for its mistakes and then fixes them before launching new content. It needs class balancing, a ton of bug fixes, and a huge turn away from forcing players to rely on a clique of friends and guildies to run content above the intermediate queue level. What it needs is to become fun and playable again for people who have to work and sleep 8 hours a day and socialize in real life.

    This team couldn't handle something as simple as mod 15 and they haven't fixed it after three months. They certainly can't handle this.

    Weren't you in the playtest?



    If you were and it wasn't a farce by the dev team, maybe you can make your qq productive by doing it on the Owlbear specific forums.

  • dolreydolrey Posts: 614Member Arc User
    edited February 20
    Oh goodness.. So many top 1 dps here crying about recovery and changes which finally will bring back game to tank+support+3dd team comp from broken 4 supp groups.

    What you play now is absolutely casual game where the only thing you have to do is to donate for bis equipment and roll your face on your keyboard having buffs from 4 supports increasing strengths of your character almoust in 10 times.

    If you can't do so? Then just go and donate a little bit more. That is how it all works now.

    Developers clearly described true problems of the game which they are going to decide in m16. And don't forget that damage of monsters and bosses will be changed too there no longer will be oneshots so..
    Post edited by dolrey on

  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    dolrey said:

    Oh goodness.. So many top 1 dps here crying about recovery and changes which finally will bring back game to tank+support+3dd team comp from broken 4 supp groups.

    What you play now is absolutely casual game where the only thing you have to do is to donate for bis equipment and roll your face on your keyboard having buffs from 4 supports increasing strengths of your character almoust in 10 times.

    If you can't do so? Then just go and donate a little bit more. That is how it all works now.

    Developers clearly described true problems of the game which they are going to decide in m16. And don't forget that damage of monsters and bosses will be changed too there no longer will be oneshots so..

    Clearly what you want from the game is absolutely NOT what many other people want. My background is in a game where pretty much any team could at least have a good go at all content other than the absolute most difficult. It made for a much more interesting game as rather than always doing an encounter the same exact way you might actually have to think outside the box because of your team composition.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,108Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    You think this is what the game needs? An overhaul players didn't ask for, promising things we have not asked for?

    More power and HP creep? More forcing us to rely on support classes when there aren't enough to fill the needs of people queueing? Taking away lifesteal so we'll die all the time in solo content and have to buy consumable healing items for zen? Ignoring longstanding bugs while they lie to us and tell us they're working as intended, as they have with +! crafting items, still not fixed after three months?

    No. What this game needs is a dev team that listens to player input. It needs one that takes accountability for its mistakes and then fixes them before launching new content. It needs class balancing, a ton of bug fixes, and a huge turn away from forcing players to rely on a clique of friends and guildies to run content above the intermediate queue level. What it needs is to become fun and playable again for people who have to work and sleep 8 hours a day and socialize in real life.

    This team couldn't handle something as simple as mod 15 and they haven't fixed it after three months. They certainly can't handle this.

    Weren't you in the playtest?

    If you were and it wasn't a farce by the dev team, maybe you can make your qq productive by doing it on the Owlbear specific forums.
    If you'd actually bothered to read the thing you're quoting, you'd have learned that I was expressing my reasons for deciding not to take part in the test. So to answer your question, obviously, I was and am not in the test. Maybe you could make your time productive by reading to the end of a sentence and responding when thereby supplied with actual information.

  • pteriaspterias Posts: 661Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I find the breadth and depth of the changes a very exciting prospect. For me, this game has been in a coffin for the last 6 months or so, slowly being lowered into the cold dark earth. At this point, an overhaul on this scale seems like the only thing that could bring it back to life. I've got nothing left to lose. On top of that, there's very little proposed that looks bad to me. Lifesteal concerns me as a solo player, but doesn't have to be a problem at all if handled properly.

    Going a bit further, a simmering lack of faith in Cryptic is giving all of us at least a little bit of heartburn (ranging up to ulcers and dysentery). Even the best changes on paper could be disastrous if done poorly. I'm extremely interested to see a lot of this stuff on preview.

    Another thing to keep in mind, there is always going to be some splash damage with this many changes. There are going to be at least a few things totally botched at first. I'm willing to try and roll with that for a while if I feel like they are making a good faith effort. However, given their track record, I TOTALLY understand other folks not willing to be so patient.
  • dolreydolrey Posts: 614Member Arc User
    edited February 21

    dolrey said:

    Oh goodness.. So many top 1 dps here crying about recovery and changes which finally will bring back game to tank+support+3dd team comp from broken 4 supp groups.

    What you play now is absolutely casual game where the only thing you have to do is to donate for bis equipment and roll your face on your keyboard having buffs from 4 supports increasing strengths of your character almoust in 10 times.

    If you can't do so? Then just go and donate a little bit more. That is how it all works now.

    Developers clearly described true problems of the game which they are going to decide in m16. And don't forget that damage of monsters and bosses will be changed too there no longer will be oneshots so..

    Clearly what you want from the game is absolutely NOT what many other people want. My background is in a game where pretty much any team could at least have a good go at all content other than the absolute most difficult. It made for a much more interesting game as rather than always doing an encounter the same exact way you might actually have to think outside the box because of your team composition.
    And this "at least have a good go" can be reached only with right battle mechanics. Because now there is only one thing deciding can you do "at least a good go" or not. It's do you have enough damage buffs and stats or not. And when devs told that they are going to change this you said that it is bad..
    Post edited by dolrey on

  • rannxeroxxrannxeroxx Posts: 168Member Arc User
    ghoulz66 said:

    Ha, thanking the devs prematurely?

    For all we know they've dumbed down everything and toke away the identity of classes and builds.

    Its like giving Obama the Nobel Prize for.... nothing. Might be great, just what the game needed, more than likely it will be a disaster going on the track record of the past year.
  • rannxeroxxrannxeroxx Posts: 168Member Arc User
    pterias said:

    I find the breadth and depth of the changes a very exciting prospect. For me, this game has been in a coffin for the last 6 months or so, slowly being lowered into the cold dark earth. At this point, an overhaul on this scale seems like the only thing that could bring it back to life. I've got nothing left to lose. On top of that, there's very little proposed that looks bad to me. Lifesteal concerns me as a solo player, but doesn't have to be a problem at all if handled properly.

    Going a bit further, a simmering lack of faith in Cryptic is giving all of us at least a little bit of heartburn (ranging up to ulcers and dysentery). Even the best changes on paper could be disastrous if done poorly. I'm extremely interested to see a lot of this stuff on preview.

    Another thing to keep in mind, there is always going to be some splash damage with this many changes. There are going to be at least a few things totally botched at first. I'm willing to try and roll with that for a while if I feel like they are making a good faith effort. However, given their track record, I TOTALLY understand other folks not willing to be so patient.

    If Cryptic is trying to think long term, they I give them kodos for trying. My concern is not that they will break the current game, you have to crack eggs to make an omelet. It is that they will sacrifice their current player base to do so.

    The changes to professions comes to mind where they ripped out the old system, put in the new, and the compensations for stuff from the old into the new was a slap in the face for players who spent hundreds of hours to acquire. Heck, in a smaller example they ripped out the fishing in Winter fest that people actually were OK with and plugged in a despised SKT one, took the Legendary fishing pole and snapped it in half and gave your garbage for it.

  • sjk2603sjk2603 Posts: 37Member Arc User
    Speaking as one of the 1% dps someone spoke of earlier, I can say im in favour of all these changes. The game as become rather one sided recently with all the buffs. I agree the power creep is ridiculous. i can get 100k power myself with my own buffs gear and bondings, and upwards of 200k power in a dungeon. That doesnt require team synergy, It just requires me to press a couple of buttons and mobs dissappear. This isnt gameplay. This is tedium.

    At last we are going to see healers that heal and tanks that tank. If I have to completely rework my toon then so be it. This Mod, as long as it's impletmented properly, will now require proper strategies and team play within dungeons. No more running ahead to melt the next mobs. Healers will only be able to heal until their divinity runs out. Tanks can only take damage to their shield until that runs out and then they take damage directly to their own HP pool. So if the GWF (Barbarian) runs ahead and continually dies, the healer may just refuse to heal that player to save the healing pool for the rest of the team.

    I understand to alot of people that this smacks of MOD 6 all over again. Give it time people..At least let it go live, level your main upto 80, take your time to sort the build out, THEN see how you feel. IT MIGHT BE THE BEST THING CRYPTIC HAS EVER DONE. Might also be the worst. But to rant on the basis of little info we have atm is not constructive now is it.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 489Member Arc User
    It's a bold move, and I give them credit for that.
    Speaking of power creep, this gives them a great opportunity to finally address it.
  • dolreydolrey Posts: 614Member Arc User
    edited February 21

    ghoulz66 said:

    Ha, thanking the devs prematurely?

    For all we know they've dumbed down everything and toke away the identity of classes and builds.

    Its like giving Obama the Nobel Prize for.... nothing. Might be great, just what the game needed, more than likely it will be a disaster going on the track record of the past year.
    I realise which problems this game has from the point of view of mmorpg player. Of course these 2 problems consist of much much more number of different small mechanics which were broken for all these years but still here is a short generalised list:

    1) Broken class system. Actually this is the only game where no one needs healers to heal. Now there are no tanks there are no healers only supports. If you think that this is normal than you probably don't know anything about how classes in mmorpgs should work.
    2) Overcap of stats wich trivialise most part of content. Needless to say a lot of words here. Of course new players don't face with this problem but experienced players do.

    No matter how developers are going fix 1-2 classes with each module no matter which dungeons they will create no matter how they are going to rework mastercraft or something else till the moment when they will rework battle process because 90% of gameplay is fighting and these 90% are broken.

    Few days earlier developers announced that they finally are going to fix these 90% of the game. It had NEVER happened before. NEVER BEFORE!! I read all of their announcements and as player with experience in this game I am absolutely agree with EVERYTHING written there because game will never be fixed and will never become interesting and challenging again for everyone till the momemt when all those things will be reworked.

    That is why I thank them. For finally making right decisions.

  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,539Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    As a longer term player than I really want to consider, I'm fine with having to "re-learn my class" it's not rocket science let's face it.

    The game has needed a shake up for a while, particularly pvp. So yeah, pleasantly surprised. Gwfs becomming barbarians..? They've always been barbarians lol. Let's hope the only armor available is furry pants for at least 5 mods. And a sky-clad option.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 754Member Arc User
    LOL. I figured you'd be estatic at these changes @dolrey. I think they gave you almost everything you asked for.
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  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    dolrey said:

    dolrey said:

    Oh goodness.. So many top 1 dps here crying about recovery and changes which finally will bring back game to tank+support+3dd team comp from broken 4 supp groups.

    What you play now is absolutely casual game where the only thing you have to do is to donate for bis equipment and roll your face on your keyboard having buffs from 4 supports increasing strengths of your character almoust in 10 times.

    If you can't do so? Then just go and donate a little bit more. That is how it all works now.

    Developers clearly described true problems of the game which they are going to decide in m16. And don't forget that damage of monsters and bosses will be changed too there no longer will be oneshots so..

    Clearly what you want from the game is absolutely NOT what many other people want. My background is in a game where pretty much any team could at least have a good go at all content other than the absolute most difficult. It made for a much more interesting game as rather than always doing an encounter the same exact way you might actually have to think outside the box because of your team composition.
    And this "at least have a good go" can be reached only with right battle mechanics. Because now there is only one thing deciding can you do "at least a good go" or not. It's do you have enough damage buffs and stats or not. And when devs told that they are going to change this you said that it is bad..
    You misunderstand me, a full team of "healers" or "CW"s could make a very decent job of most of the high level dungeons there, but would need different tactics to your classic mixed team with a tank. The holy trinity basically didn't exist. These changes will drive this game back to the holy trinity. The strange thing was that this was also a Cryptic game, and they were on the point of killing it with their "You WILL play our way only", in the end they sold it and it flourished for a long while under better management till the devs and producer fell out while it was still making money.
  • jizzu#6891 jizzu Posts: 53Member Arc User
    personally i don't think it can be denied that the game has gotten stale....after a certain il game play becomes defined by the mad dash to get the new shiny shiny.....thats all that was left, and i was no different. the same dungeon mechanics over and over, for what? this wasn't the fault of the player base it was the trajectory devs pushed it down and in the process paid little heed to player opinion.

    many are going to feel this huge overhaul is devs ignoring their wants once again and from the howls of anguish for many it is; but, i can see some hope in these changes. if players are going to have to begin considering how they approach dungeons etc again then surely that re-injects challenge and purpose to runs and the game as a whole?

    giving back classes that play how those classes is supposed to play can only be good. hopefully it will remove the redundancy of many paths forcing teams to be composed around the very definite skills and purpose a class is supposed to have.

    yes it is going to be hard rebuilding chars but again surely there is worthwhile challenge in that?

    in saying this devs need to consider that many players have poured real money into this game to build chars that could operate in the sterile world they created; if such wholesale changes mean that the enchants etc that people have invested so heavily in no become worthless to their build/new build then there should be serious consideration given to how they are going to be recompensed. there needs to be some system where certain items can be traded in for equivalents that fit the new direction. there is precedent for this in the huge changes to crafting/workshops.

    i do have fears though that such huge change has not been given sufficient time in the planning and implementation. compared to this AI was a tiny undertaking and there was/is such huge issues with it (aside from the concept).

    i hope people will give the changes a chance; and though from past actions faith in the devs has been pushed to the limit i think if this is done correctly it could be the saviour of the game.
  • mat44444mat44444 Posts: 116Member Arc User
    edited February 22
    error sorry
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 999Member Arc User
    dolrey said:

    What you play now is absolutely casual game where the only thing you have to do is to donate for bis equipment and roll your face on your keyboard having buffs from 4 supports increasing strengths of your character almoust in 10 times.

    This actually made me laugh out loud - thank you :)

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