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Mod 16 - Once again a failure a proper communication

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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,053Member Arc User
    edited February 21





    Overall I find that this update will have many cost related items for players and if that is the case some players maybe tired of constantly needing to invest with each mod. As someone who mains a CW, every mod I have had to change 1-2 items that cost in game resources and sometimes real money do to how bad my luck is when I try to upgrade an item from epic to legendary or legendary to mythical. Forget going from a R10 to R14 enchantment. This seems like it is a major cost sink and I have a gut feeling we may see other changes that have not yet been announced that may impact our characters further.

    IMO we didn't need both a level cap and redoing all the character classes. I would have introduce one in one mod and the other in another mod. I would have staged the rollout they have planned for mod 16. It also would be easier to catch and fix bugs.

    Dude, can you give the lottery numbers for this weekend while you're at it?

    You "FIND" that this update will...

    At best you should be using the word "speculate," "guess", or probably "worry"...

    If English is your second or third language I apologise, but with the evidence so far available there's nothing TO find.

    Some of the outrage and assumption being displayed here is worse than when they announced the title of the fourth Harry Potter book without a full synopsis, and people went mad about underage school kids drinking Flaming Sambucas.*


    (*that didn't really happen... I made it up to illustrate a point.)
    "Keep your eyes open while delving the layers of Undermountain, not just for dangers and traps, but for the glint of treasure hidden throughout. As players advance to level 80 so does the gear. Undermountain brings new equipment ranging from level 71 to 80, new seal gear, new dungeon equipment, and even new higher item level artifacts for players to enjoy."

    Speculation? I think not. The very last part of the quote above from the post by the dev clearly shows that players will have to invest in game resources or real world money, depending upon their luck, to upgrade the new higher IL artifacts. Now keep in mind artifacts in this game includes regular artifacts, weapons, neck and waist. Therefore my speculation is not speculation given this. I simply read what was written and expressed my concern over the fact that the company is once again pushing newer and shiny items our way that quite a few players will use real funds to acquire or to reach its max IL.

    As someone who just did this I'm not all that happy about needing to do it so soon. I was hoping my weapons would last a year like the Fey weapon did.


    I don't want to get bogged down in linguistic semantics, but even if you start a sentence with "I find" and then go to say "May be tired of." you are still speculating.
    (You didn't FIND that there will be new gear... it's right there in front of your eyes, it wasn't lost or hidden, it took no effort to uncover, the speculation comes in your conclusion as what that information may or may not mean.)

    Let me break it down.
    "I find that this new Mod will have new content... which means new gear... which means... I'll need to somehow EARN that stuff." (Objective data, which everyone can see.)
    "And maybe some people won't like that". (Subjective assumption, or opinion.)
    See how it works?
    Tying an objective and subjective into one statement doesn't strengthen the objectivity of the assumption.


    But, anyway, on to the wider complaint.

    So... there will be new gear?
    Isn't what you would expect in ANY NEW CONTENT. Irrespective of level cap increase.
    I'd hope there was something worth having after grinding an entire new NWO campaign.

    Invest "in game resources"???????
    What do you think they exist for????

    It's like moaning about Easter. "I find that some people may be tired of chocolate, ergo Easter is BAD." Who are these people? Let them go somewhere and eat carrots, not moan about how the announcement that Easter is coming round in a few months is somehow bad news for everyone else who quite likes chocolate. (That's a simile. Just in case anyone wonders what the hell carrots have to do with anything...)

    Maybe consider that such a situation will allow players to actually do MORE than shower rinse and repeat the same content over and over in a bid to fast track to BiS so they can... run the same content over and over once a week, complaining that there's not enough to do?

    BiS is about to get better. Much better.
    And that will mean that people will find it harder to get their four best buddies, buy a bunch of Campaign Advancement packs, fast track the campaign and ram raid the new Dungeon, gain all the new gear, vivify it and sit back and wait for the next mod to drop.
    I'm sure there will be a few who have the money to fast track to 80, (Hell, there will probably be a Zen bundle...) and also buy most of the associated gear.
    Personally, I'd rather the campaigns be better, and play the game and get there eventually.
    But if they have the money and that's how they enjoy playing, fair play to them. Those are the people who are paying far more of Cryptic's bills than I ever will, so I'm not going to criticise them for covering my end of the costs.

    But since it looks like L71-80 will be EARNED through campaign participation rather than chasing dire bears in the Stronghold, it won't be so easy to just throw freebies at alts to get them up there.

    There will be LOADS of new stuff to do. How the hell is THAT a bad thing? Who are the people who want new content, but without new rewards and better gear?
    Are they after content that they don't have to invest anything in? I suppose those guys LOVE the new Professions... new content that they can choose to completely and utterly ignore.

    In summary... if you are tired of grinding and refining for new and better gear... it's not a problem with Mod 16.

    I find that some players may be tired of playing a linear progression MMO. Maybe they just don't get the way these things work and might be better off trying a different type of game.


    that was tl/dr

    but just getting the gist of it.. the problem isn't that there is new gear. or progression or anything like that. it's that you can't honestly choose to keep any of your old gear going forward. it isn't a new set of weapons, it isn't a new hat and pair of shoes. it's EVERYTHING. things that we just spent millions on are worthless. new plus one weapon sets for people were literally running 8 to 10 million ad a set. the neck and waist were running about 4 to 6mil for plus one. things should be good for more than one mod. even if it's no longer the hot bis'ness... it still should be serviceable if you choose to forgo the grind.

    raising the level cap just sucks. lol. it's that we have to start over when many of us are pretty happy with what we have over all. and tbh I wouldn't personally be that twisted about it except for that they JUST gave us updated mw stuff. people have literally spent millions and millions on gear that has no lifespan at all. (I didn't personally but I just got lucky in that I was waiting for a better professions worker that had stats i liked better)

    i'm grateful that I know enough in advance that I didn't personally fall down that hole.. but i did just buy a tensers for my cw.. literally last week.. now what.. is it worthless is it not worthless I don't know. that's 8 mil possibly down the drain.

    maybe they'll update the level of mw again. maybe they won't. it would be nice to know if the investment is down the hole after a 1 maybe 2 month period. same with enchants. what are they replaced with? is it a desirable stat or.... what?

    it would just be nice to have communication. we have hours and hours of our real life invested in farming this silly game. it would be very nice to have some assurances from the source when a bombshell like this one is dropped.


    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • silvershard#4275 silvershard Posts: 95Member Arc User
    edited February 21
    You don't have to start over.
    You just have a new goal to aim for.
    I know some people think that's bad, but I'm happy to say it; "I don't care." If L71-80 isn't your thing stay in Barovia and Chult.

    I said several times, I didn't see a need for a new level cap, but people with far more understanding of the game than any of the people moaning about it believe it can prolong the life, and improve the quality of the game.

    And I'm more inclined to believe people with a wider interest in the game, who happen to know more about what's happening than people who have read a couple of headline notifications and just assumed that everything is going to be bad.

    I still don't get why people are moaning about having to get new gear more than normal just because its going to have a different level number.

    The same applies to everyone, yet only a few people seem to have this concern specific to post L70 gear.

    Here comes a new expansion that allows you to explore five new zones, improve your character, gain new skills, powers, feats and better gear!
    That's not fair... I already earned some good gear. Now they are making me earn more?

    YES.
    And as long as the new gear isn't as mind numbingly gated behind many multiple runs of the same one dungeon in order to "Restore" it, following weeks of repetitive dailies and weeklies unlocking that dungeon, I'll be perfectly happy with that.


    And the communication WILL come.

    Do you think that this is it?
    That the announcements made the other day are the sum total of the information that we will get before Mod 16 goes live?
    Please... don't think that.
    Because it's not true. More information will come... and then more, and possible more... it might come as an umanageable single data dump, but more likely will come out in packs of relevant info, so wait... wait and see what the FACTS are.
    Then lose your HAMSTER over how bad you know its all going to be.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,611Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Yes, that is called an "AD sink".
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Posts: 1,012Member Arc User
    rjc9000 said:


    Recovery was a major part of the game for FIVE years. A bit more courtesy from developers/higher-ups wouldn't hurt as far as the terms of explanations go. A blog post can't possibly cover it.

    I am no dev, but here is my insight: Recovery has devalued the point daily attacks and made encounter powers extremely spammable to the point where there is not much of a need to pay attention.

    Daily attacks are intuitively supposed to be similar to ultimates or super moves, the most powerful attacks a player can use that is balanced (in theory) by not being able

    In practice, top end players get so much Recovery (and Action Point gain) that daily attacks can be spammed with relative impunity. Right now, you have DCs dropping AA every 7-10 seconds, CWs using Ice Knife every 8-10 seconds, OP putting out Shield of Faith every 5 secs with the right setup, SW firing Brood of Hadar every 10 seconds, even TRs getting dailies within under 15 seconds (even post powerlooping). Daily attacks are currently no more than "encounters with a different cooldown". The only classes* that don't spam dailies all day every day are GWF (loluseless dailies) and GF (because you press one daily and lol3hit bosses).

    To keep up with this spammage, daily attacks had to (mostly) be toned down in effects due to being really easy to obtain.

    *HRs were designed around daily spam, given the weird AP useage of things like Disruptive Shot and Forest Ghost, but to compensate, their daily attacks are so meh that they aren't that big of a deal.

    Encounter powers just turned into just harder hitting At-wills with a small cooldown. CW can toss out Disintegrate every 2 seconds with enough Recovery, GFs can keep up ITF 24/7, GWFs can fire IBS every 5 seconds, SW is firing Killing Flames every 6 seconds, DC can refresh Exalt every 5 seconds, and even HR has practically permanent Flurry (or only 3-4 seconds of Flurry downtime with something like 5000 Recovery). There is not much strategy to using encounters besides "get the order right for max DPS".

    With Recovery gone, I suspect that the dev team will try to make daily attacks much more powerful and more unique (rather than Ice Knife being "double damage disintegrate with a cooldown that procs combustive action/arcane power field, maybe Ice Knife will be something like 8x the damage of Disintegrate that can only be fired every 2 minutes). Same for encounters, I suspect they will be re-tooled so cooldown time vs. damage becomes a factor. I suspect something similar might happen for Encounters: now you may need to hold (x) in storage to make sure you can take out a certain add/do a certain mechanic in time, or will need to judge encounters based off damage and cooldown time.

    I don't think it should have been completely removed, but I think something should have been done to address the devaluing of encounter powers/daily attacks.
    I agree with what you state as it has been my issue for some time now, too. When I stressed out that Disintegrate needs to be toned down in terms of its use, I usually got verbally attacked.

    I do not mind new changes, as someone else stated on some topic > "I have been waiting for this since MOD3".

    But I also agreed with what someone else stated on another topic > "I'm unsure whether current dev team can make this slick enough for this sort of a transition"

    Based solely on a blog post, it appears as a completely new type of mechanics.

    However, if it makes future progress to not use as hard dungeons and actually allow something else rather than 4support1dps meta, I'm all up for it.

    Personally, I wouldn't remove life-steal as I enjoy playing a bit more dangerously without a tank/healer in PT. I wish I had the option to do so without dying, but as developers say here it might be possible to do so in the upcoming months, so I am all up for it. I wish that tank+healer is optional, not mandatory. This is why life-steal's removal is a bad choice, I think.

    However, mount insignia bonuses as well as other forms of healing over time might be another way to go around the problem.

    I do not like the removal of AC, either. I actually used it for solo content where I wasn't playing too seriously.

    I am curious to see what and how Wizard plays onward and forward. And I hope that devs will include a shop where certain Enchants could be changed. Although someone would surely try to exploit that, too...

    I've seen some people in this topic selling their enchantments some months ago.

    I also think that DCs will be extremely valuable onward.
    True Neutral
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,641Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 21
    ilithyn said:

    I will be blunt here. I went into the module 16 playtest expecting it to be bad. I did not have high expectations at all and if it was anything like module 15 was to me, that would have been the last straw and I would have quit. Instead I was pleasantly surprised and I am very eagerly awaiting the arrival of module 16. Take that as you will, but right now I am looking forward to it.

    So it'll be good for the CWs and screw the rest of us. Great thanks, that's good info to have.
    Actually, I have given a lot of feedback to try and get classes relatively well balanced. But hey, I see people don't like being reasonable and just want to assume the worst. I have no incentive to favour 1 class over another, I have enough AD to bis any class the very moment module 16 goes live, so if it was a case of, "I want to play whats better," currency and class is not a concern for me.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,157Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    I will be blunt here. I went into the module 16 playtest expecting it to be bad. I did not have high expectations at all and if it was anything like module 15 was to me, that would have been the last straw and I would have quit. Instead I was pleasantly surprised and I am very eagerly awaiting the arrival of module 16. Take that as you will, but right now I am looking forward to it.

    Because is different doesnt mean is good.
  • ragequittingdc#8599 ragequittingdc Posts: 229Member Arc User
    edited February 21
    even for those of us that can afford to class hop on a whim, that doesn't mean we want to lol. personally I see some nerf hammers in the distance, very discrete ones, despite it being a total revamp. no point being bis in a role that might be useless for pve content(in before mod16 will be perfectly balanced), for those that are in those circles, and a pity for those that are stuck grinding to make a switch.

    that said, I'm actually back on the side of high hopes. plainly speaking, the changes look very good so far now that I have more context behind things like lifesteal and recovery being taken. in my view it's a huge step in the right direction in the style of "sandbox" play, but I'm not going to get too excited. it could just as easily be terrible as the next few weeks pass by.
    im actually the gwf carry
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,053Member Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Yes, that is called an "AD sink".

    the only ad sink I am aware of in mw is in rushing a task. purchasing multimillion dollar items has a small sink on the ah but other than that is not a sink. it's not enough money sank to be worth making your player base sad
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,611Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Copper farthings add up.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • onlymatonlymat Posts: 207Member Arc User
    the new lvl cap is needed - more and more players in my guild are borded myself included.
    I play 2 chars on console a18.2k do/dc (i always played do) only util slots to upgrade what makes no sense atm and a 17.5k cw.

    The main problem I have is: I can´t get anything from dungeons - every drop i can sell for AD but AD is not my problem i have enough AD. So the players like me NEED something new because i also startet to play alot less because i get bored very quickly - i run if guildies needs me but thats it and most other BIS people feel the same.

    So i hoped for a lvl cap increase so i have to reach something. will it be good? I don´t know but I think this is the neede change to keep the game alive. I don´t know much about the new mod some rumors i heard.

    What I really hope is:

    If paragon pathes are not there anymore - i want to select all feats from all current paragon pathes - so i have much more choice what to use.
    If I can use AA on my dc (the only thing missing atm and needed for some groups) that would be perfect.
    Also I hope that ALL dps classes gets viewable - not gwf ist the bis one - for eveyone who goes the dps route should be able to be best DPS. AOE or single target.
    If it´s true that crit is capped at 50% this i would really hate - there is no need for it. The devs can introduce gear and stuff where you can get power OR crit and only some special Items give both - so everyone needs to check what to reach high power or high crit.

    to remove lifesteal makes sense because my cw is unkillable - only oneshots can kill him and with bark shield also it doesn´t happen too often..... so you need some external heals.
    I read about the mechanics from pallys witha a guard - i would like a similar one to dc´s. So if I overheal a pool gets filled and if someone looses health it gets refilled from this pool. Why a pool? Because with the remove of recovery and the jumping around from hr´s i have a big prob as dc. If I use bation of health on my teammates and the hunter ranger is not near the teammates - how can i heal him? next bastion is ready in 10 second hr is dead :(
    Cool would be a mechanik similar to templocks - when doing damage then you heal - so for example if I crit with my dc I heal the whole group with percentage of this damage or I fill this pool. So as DC you have to decide how to heal - do damage and a high crit build or share power and use healing spells or or or.

    Not sure about the remove of recovery - ist a option needed for the cooldowns - with new lvl cap to 80 they can introduce this high recovery you need that it´s almost impossible to have power crit AND recovery on very high lvls.

    Most important thing I hope for the next mod:
    pls introduce gear for ALL classes what ALL classes can use - the hr still needs dext belt an neck because there is no better otion. If you introduce new weapon ench and you know only 1 class can use it - introduce others for other classes too.
    Best would be if you could reroll your sets like your artifact powers on weapons. So for demo set i reroll and get 2 dex 2 whatever instead of the fixed things - this way ALL sets could be viewable and yiou would see even more different classes with different sets.

    If mod 16 safes the game? I don´t know but in its current state ist dead for most players who reached the cap nothing to do only get AD. I welcome the changes :)
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Posts: 4,201Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I will sum up my expectations as thus..

    If its fun and I can make it work I will stay.
    If its not fun and its too grindy.. I will leave.. maybe I will come back again.. maybe not.

    I dont like the idea of having to re grind enchants out.. as I perceive all of my enchants I just got to r14 are now worthless..

    It took me months of hard grinding getting those babies back up there. But whats the point of crit/pwer enchants, or crit/power/recovery enchants. My brutals will be worth 50% less I think.. black ice.. maybe ok.. maybe not. Azures still appear to be junk and that leaves.. everyone going to want radiant and whatever new enchants slap on their silly check stats (yes to me they are a silly trend.. check stats.. what the heck, just another arp , but new arp.. checking against other stats.. boring to me)

    Until of course we can test them.. only the alpha testers know.

    That is the only part that is semi frustrating to me.. the rest I could deal with.. but the moment that its going to take me another 60 million of earnings to gear up another toon.. meh.. I think I will be out again.

    This is such a massive change up on the game level.

    I would semi hope they would allow a enchant exchange.. for 13s and up or something.. this would make any sort of re calibration of the game go down much more smoothly. That would alleviate alot of fears imo. I know they might lose money, but they are going to lose money ayways.. so I guess its their choice.. maybe keep some active people who spend some money, or just write off some people and hope enough who remain will spend to re calibrate their class.

    I have a feeling , and this is without any testing.. that my gwf and hr are going to be useless as well as a tr, (not really a class I ever played that much) making the choice between, cw, sw, dc, op as the top new classes and gf as a middle of the road type.

    That is pure speculation on my part.. without enough solid evidence.. based on what I can read between the lines so far. I dont even really know about dc, depends on whether power share is being removed.. if it is.. its a healer then can heal without attacking.. so has a spot I guess.

    my cw and dc are mostly booned out (like 98%).. I could swap some r14s around immediately and make cw okish.. depending on what is going on.. but , I will have way too much crit.. but since I dont know what I need, hard to make adjustments yet.

    Again.. THE biggest need to me is a enchant swap person.. allowing that will solve almost all of our fears.

    I dont care about any one particular class all that much.. and would play anyone a bit more then others.. recently that has been my gwf.. as I could solo hunts and gear up other toons with it with a bit more ease then some of the other classes I have.

    Some people like to play just one class more then all others.. I in particular started on a DC and played it more then any other toon up to mod 7.. then the changes to the game , making it basically a buff rotation bot, was boring to me, I know others who enjoy that.. but I never did.

    IDK..

    angst , anxiety are part of life unfortunately.

    But it boils down to this.. dont spend a dime until you think you will have enough fun..

    if you dont have any.. leave..


    In the end its only a game.. even these changes dont solve everything , same issues we have today.. they will have in 2-3 years.. its every mmo, not just this one.

    Most mmos are in their "best" or waxing moments, in the first 2-3 years of existence.. everything is fresh, new, players grow together , communities flourish , bloom ect.. then after that, there is a maybe a pinnacle release of some sort.. then it starts to wane.

    as far as I can tell.. most mmos after year 4.. are sort of meh after that..

    Too much power.. the best mmos Ive ever played had a 5% different in bis vs next slot gear.. not 30-40% differences.. so most people could play together still. This game is crazy power saleing.. always has been, probably will always be that way.





  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,694Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I have a full set of R14 enchants for my main (partially shared between several different loadouts) I cannot go into details (due to the NDA) but I can say that for the most part I just will need to switch enchants around a bit, although I will eventually have to replace 6 of them, but as I will be sharing more enchants between my different loadouts, I will end up with several surplus ones, which might become "hand-me-downs" for some of my lesser-played alts. If I sell them (assuming prices do not totally collapse) I will have a nice pile of AD left over after buying replacements for the 6 I will no longer be using.

    So, no....it's not the end of the world, but some adjustments are needed. No reason to panic.
    Time for a break. Will be back later to see if things have improved.
  • jdetrimentaljdetrimental Posts: 16Member Arc User
    > @adinosii said:
    > I have a full set of R14 enchants for my main (partially shared between several different loadouts) I cannot go into details (due to the NDA) but I can say that for the most part I just will need to switch enchants around a bit, although I will eventually have to replace 6 of them, but as I will be sharing more enchants between my different loadouts, I will end up with several surplus ones, which might become "hand-me-downs" for some of my lesser-played alts. If I sell them (assuming prices do not totally collapse) I will have a nice pile of AD left over after buying replacements for the 6 I will no longer be using.
    >
    > So, no....it's not the end of the world, but some adjustments are needed. No reason to panic.

    I'm sure some classes get screwed harder than DPS. Tac full silveries, ac Dom brutality insigs all rads and 6silveries.

    A bunch of people I know end game are quitting if they have to buy all new because the games too dead to sell what you have to get what you need thanks to devs releasing broken content since preview then banning half end gamers on Xbox I'm sure PS4 took a hit too. There is one active alliance on Xbox now, and it's been dying down as well.
  • luffyhaki123luffyhaki123 Posts: 20Member Arc User
    ilithyn said:

    rubytrue said:

    I will be blunt here. I went into the module 16 playtest expecting it to be bad. I did not have high expectations at all and if it was anything like module 15 was to me, that would have been the last straw and I would have quit. Instead I was pleasantly surprised and I am very eagerly awaiting the arrival of module 16. Take that as you will, but right now I am looking forward to it.

    Coming from thefabricant, that's really all you need to know....
    And that's supposed to mean what exactly? I don't know the person so I'm going to take it to mean that it'll be absolute shti because they're a habitual liar.
    lol ur still crying like a baby? what so funny is ur gonna cry all over the place, but yet ur gonna still be playing the game mod 16 and then ur gonna cry about something else.
  • ashbury#6333 ashbury Posts: 24Member Arc User
    People need to relax a little. Why all the bashing of the devs decisions all the time? This is one of the best games out there to play. Because of the devs and their effort making it. So let's maybe give them a little credit where credit is due. Yeah there are many many bugs in the game that need to be addressed and hopefully they will be. Even with the bugs it's still one of the best games ever made. People always complain when a change is coming and then after the change has happened it's usually good. I've caught myself questioning their decisions before only to agree with it after. So lets just chill for a bit. Everyone will lose something but we will also gain. This is probably going to make the game that much better and it's already pretty freakin awesome!
  • cold#5127 cold Posts: 6Member Arc User
    I think BiS players and play testers here failed to adress the only complaint many of us have. I/We dont care so much about whales, dumb enchantments, obsolete gear and who is supporting the devs or not. Grinding/real money will take care of the problems, eventually. What i need to know is WHEN all classes will be balanced? My 15k HR archery-combat hybrid/combat build doesnt do the damage a similar geared GWF is capable of doing. I dont want to be on top of paingiver every time, but i will like to kill stuff as fast as many of the barbarians or that my effort for the team is recognized in some way. So, the question is - do mod 16 solved this issue? If not, this is the real reason many people will move on.
  • draugkirdraugkir Posts: 75Member Arc User
    Pretty sure a loadcrap of an already small playerbase will leave with this mod. Killing builds a lot of player took years and dedication to produce usually has that effect.

    Theres almost noeone putting rl cash in the game atm ( look to zen ad Exchange ) so, bringing a mod like this doesnt seem to be a very clever idea.

    But hey.. someone contracted someone to have theese genial ideas so they must know better.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,051Member Arc User
    edited February 23
    In case my toons/classes will get downgraded in power and the effect is that I need to take more care about teamplay and groupcomposition I am fine.
    Rebalance means also redefine classes roles, same as tone down other aspects same time, being a striker, tank, supporter or healer.
    It would be very annoying to step into mod 16 and recognize that my OP is allmighty doing all at once, like dps, tank, aggromanagement and buff everything into the roof, same as other classes are only reduced to deal dps and be from minor interest beside that and others dps, buff and cc at once.

    Some classes/trees need an overhaul I think.
    Actually classes are way more balanced than in former mods, some might need a small push like GF tank.
    If I grind solo on my paladin I should have a dps tree that can´t tank and share insane buffs same time.
    A DO-DC should group as dps, the paragon/tree might need a further push to be viable again without getting too powerfull concernig groupbuffs and debuffs/mitigation.
    A GF might benefit from a dps-tree without being tanky same time for soloplay or maybe a pure dps role.
    A GWF might need an alternative beside that 24/7 striker aspect without any options.
    Croudcontrol aspects did nearly vanish in endcontent, a complete role that is from minor to no interest, there should be a way to get that aspect back- Wizard ! Otherwise there is nothing left than tank-dps-support, control aspects are an important part, concernig fun and coordination in a game.
    Some classes allready are in a spot to choose at least between 2 options/roles.

    About stats and and new caps, I hope they will find a solution without breaking everything.
    Crit will still be important but maybe some new builds might be born out of the upcoming changes, I am optimistic and I think it´s time to get soem fresh air into classbuilds.
    Atm everyone at any time runs a 100% critbuild except a powerbuffer, because 100% crit is the only way to maximise your dps, wich is the only thing from interest in most setups, since there is not much to care about beside dps.
    even running a 50% critbuild, having like 200% critseverity will overcome a pure non crit build these days I am sure, did not the math to prove it though, same as crit is from importance for some classfeats and other boni for warlock, CW, DC and others. A huge task and a risk to also break classbalance tbh. An overhaul of weaponenchants will be unavoidable agreed.

    I only hope mod 16 will not destroy all made improvements, but reaches a higher level of class-definitions and roles, otherwise it will cause a huge downgrade and break the game for years again.
    I stay optimistic, looking at made decisions and improvements during the last mods.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,053Member Arc User
    draugkir said:

    Pretty sure a loadcrap of an already small playerbase will leave with this mod. Killing builds a lot of player took years and dedication to produce usually has that effect.

    Theres almost noeone putting rl cash in the game atm ( look to zen ad Exchange ) so, bringing a mod like this doesnt seem to be a very clever idea.

    But hey.. someone contracted someone to have theese genial ideas so they must know better.

    they are running advertisments thru the playstation store. they're probably doing that on steam and xbox as well. they might get a boatload of new.. tourists..... tourists spend cash
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,053Member Arc User

    In case my toons/classes will get downgraded in power and the effect is that I need to take more care about teamplay and groupcomposition I am fine.
    Rebalance means also redefine classes roles, same as tone down other aspects same time, being a striker, tank, supporter or healer.
    It would be very annoying to step into mod 16 and recognize that my OP is allmighty doing all at once, like dps, tank, aggromanagement and buff everything into the roof, same as other classes are only reduced to deal dps and be from minor interest beside that and others dps, buff and cc at once.

    Some classes/trees need an overhaul I think.
    Actually classes are way more balanced than in former mods, some might need a small push like GF tank.
    If I grind solo on my paladin I should have a dps tree that can´t tank and share insane buffs same time.
    A DO-DC should group as dps, the paragon/tree might need a further push to be viable again without getting too powerfull concernig groupbuffs and debuffs/mitigation.
    A GF might benefit from a dps-tree without being tanky same time for soloplay or maybe a pure dps role.
    A GWF might need an alternative beside that 24/7 striker aspect without any options.
    Croudcontrol aspects did nearly vanish in endcontent, a complete role that is from minor to no interest, there should be a way to get that aspect back- Wizard ! Otherwise there is nothing left than tank-dps-support, control aspects are an important part, concernig fun and coordination in a game.
    Some classes allready are in a spot to choose at least between 2 options/roles.

    About stats and and new caps, I hope they will find a solution without breaking everything.
    Crit will still be important but maybe some new builds might be born out of the upcoming changes, I am optimistic and I think it´s time to get soem fresh air into classbuilds.
    Atm everyone at any time runs a 100% critbuild except a powerbuffer, because 100% crit is the only way to maximise your dps, wich is the only thing from interest in most setups, since there is not much to care about beside dps.
    even running a 50% critbuild, having like 200% critseverity will overcome a pure non crit build these days I am sure, did not the math to prove it though, same as crit is from importance for some classfeats and other boni for warlock, CW, DC and others. A huge task and a risk to also break classbalance tbh. An overhaul of weaponenchants will be unavoidable agreed.

    I only hope mod 16 will not destroy all made improvements, but reaches a higher level of class-definitions and roles, otherwise it will cause a huge downgrade and break the game for years again.
    I stay optimistic, looking at made decisions and improvements during the last mods.

    you should read all the blogs. all classes have been overhauled. none of them are what they are at this moment. there are still two paragon paths but they don't have the feat trees we have now. they only have one path per paragon. they have new roles assigned to them. everyone has slightly new names.
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • silvershard#4275 silvershard Posts: 95Member Arc User
    edited February 23

    You don't have to start over.
    You just have a new goal to aim for.
    I know some people think that's bad, but I'm happy to say it; "I don't care." If L71-80 isn't your thing stay in Barovia and Chult.

    I said several times, I didn't see a need for a new level cap, but people with far more understanding of the game than any of the people moaning about it believe it can prolong the life, and improve the quality of the game.

    And I'm more inclined to believe people with a wider interest in the game, who happen to know more about what's happening than people who have read a couple of headline notifications and just assumed that everything is going to be bad.

    I still don't get why people are moaning about having to get new gear more than normal just because its going to have a different level number.

    The same applies to everyone, yet only a few people seem to have this concern specific to post L70 gear.

    Here comes a new expansion that allows you to explore five new zones, improve your character, gain new skills, powers, feats and better gear!
    That's not fair... I already earned some good gear. Now they are making me earn more?

    YES.
    And as long as the new gear isn't as mind numbingly gated behind many multiple runs of the same one dungeon in order to "Restore" it, following weeks of repetitive dailies and weeklies unlocking that dungeon, I'll be perfectly happy with that.


    And the communication WILL come.

    Do you think that this is it?
    That the announcements made the other day are the sum total of the information that we will get before Mod 16 goes live?
    Please... don't think that.
    Because it's not true. More information will come... and then more, and possible more... it might come as an umanageable single data dump, but more likely will come out in packs of relevant info, so wait... wait and see what the FACTS are.
    Then lose your HAMSTER over how bad you know its all going to be.


    you are blithely missing the point of the concern with a studied air of condescension. If you think you're gaining points with someone somewhere by drinking the koolaid.. then yay, I guess , for you.


    Why should I place my trust in others to know what is best for me or what I'll enjoy more? am I five? are the rest of the players who think a level cap raise is not a great idea? (which is the majority I am aware of) lol. good grief. and if they did know what was best for retention of players they'd be practicing much better communication than they have done over the last 5 years. how you get outrage among your base is by giving partial information or none and letting rumors grow and fears spread instead of tackling why it's good and the why hows and whens. if they just came out with information about how our investments in the game are protected or lost going forward then there would be a lot less to be upset or concerned about. this game has shown very little know how in player retention and good will imo. we've been trying to get across the message of MORE and CLEAR and concise communication for YEARS now. every now and again a small effort is made that lasts about a month and then it goes away again.

    I've never understood your brand of gamer who mindlessly defends corporations against their own best interests and gets down on others who do try to defend their own and others best interests.

    as far as the concerns about gear, you're just in outer space with your counter point. your take on the concerns that I have at least is so far off the truth that I don't even know how to reply. it's been stated numerous times now.. and you're coming away with an IL concern? it's a waste of ad concern. we just SPENT and in some cases REAL MONEY LOTS OF REAL MONEY buying new gear.. that is good for part of one mod. that's the problem. there is no choice to continue using it like there has been for the better part of five years. a purchase that has been made is now being taken back with no refund (As far as I know) it's that there should be some lon.... yah know what. I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over.. so never mind. I'm not going to complete that thought. you just don't get it.

    but it was wrong of them to update mw to current levels right before doing a raised level cap. it encouraged a lot of expensive activity that they knew before hand was pointless.
    You're funny.
    You say that you argue the gist of posts you haven't read, and then talk about blithe ignorance.
    There's a word for that.
    It's "Hypocrite"

    I don't care who or what you trust.
    That's down to your own insecurities, and no amount of advising you to wait and see what actually happens before MAMSTERting the bed seems to help.

    If you think that advocating patience over blind anger and bandwagon negativity is akin to cult suicide then... yeah Ok... that's not an over reaction at all.
    But making normal leaps of coherent thought, clearly, isn't a thing you aspire to.

    So, I'll join the cult of common sense and me and Rev Jim will watch your ranting about... stuff you probably haven't bothered to read properly... from a distance.

    You seem to know exactly what is happening with new gear and now, it seems, Master Work.
    Cool. Is there any evidence you are basing your comments on or are those conclusions also the product of a fever dream?

    If you spent REAL MONEY LOTS OF REAL MONEY and didn't expect the stuff you spent it on to become redundant, as new content appears in a long running MMO, then you have my sympathy. Maybe you'll know better next time, and either spend less, or temper your expectations.

    I like the way you rant and bang on about stuff you don't know, and qualify it by slipping in a little "(As far as I know)" to cover your HAMSTER.
    The thing is, you know nothing about how the changes will happen. None of us do. Except the people who are responsible for doing it. And... drum roll... when they tell us, we WILL know, then we'll be able to discuss it properly.

    And THAT is the problem... it should read "(As far as I choose to believe based on getting the gist of some stuff from an undetailed announcement of something that will happen later that I probably didn't read all the way through coz they were too long.)"

    Edited because: "Mods… dudes... you let THAT get through the profanity filter?????"
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,051Member Arc User
    edited February 23
    @thefiresidecat

    I did not recognize that those blogs were allready up, but in the sum there are things that needed to be done, and to some degree my post exactly supports those changes. Classroles hopefully get more strictly designed.
    The neverending discussions about "My trapper build is useless", " I can´t run my damnation lock in endgame content" and so on... time consuming walls of text about "unpopular builds" in one mod switching to popular next mod.
    How many builds are viable for actual classes in PVE? GWF=1, GF=2 (more or less), OP=2, Warlock=2-(3), DC=1-(2), TR 1

    Now you can center your game play arroud two options , do I run a grouporientated build or more soloplay designed, wich role do I pick heal or dps etc..
    Less options devs can focus on instead of wasting time in nerverending disussions arround pro and contra of 1 out of 10 possible builds. Reality shows, there is allways one or two dominating builds anyway, so nothing will change except the fact that discussions will end and player can center arround those two pathes and trees to discuss pro and contra.
    A pretty logical step after years of "megathreads" about classes, builds and balance.
    In case this company had 100 designer to care about all those smaller problem, things could stay as now, but they don´t.
    Things get more straight and easy. I don´t have to run 5 loadouts with my char only to run the optimum setup depending on the dungeon or the challenge, trash/single boss, boss with adds... at least I hope so.
    I remeber some points were allready mentioned in dev-posts long time ago, so no big surprise in my eyes and some of this is very welcome , bc I hope it will lead to solvable tasks for devs in further mods, concerning balance and roles, not that I hate build-variety, but the reality shows us it often leads to anger and frustration on players side.

    Recovery was a problem since long in PVE same as PVP, some classes did get huge advantage some didn´t, the solution to simply cut it off is a pretty hard but maybe sane decision.

    Btw. classroles do not change that much imo:
    Warlock = dps/heal
    DC = heal/dps -good choice
    GF = tank/dps
    GWF = dps/tank
    OP =tank/heal
    etc.
    Actual mod:
    warlock dps/heal
    DC heal/dps missing
    GF 2. degree tank /tanky dps
    OP tank/heal
    GWF dps/tank missing
    TR-Hunter-CW dps or dps/support

    I hate those threads digging in the fog, before having any clue about how things gonna look like anyway, wasted time and hysteria arround "unlayed eggs". The core of those changes are not bad at all, waiting for the implementation.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • cold#5127 cold Posts: 6Member Arc User
    I am sorry, but walls of text do not make the problem go away. My question is simple - is my hr going to be equal with a gwf? Also, why normal players cant test the mod, gaining insight on changes and avoiding the terrible losses on AH like play testers? You know what i am implying and ppl have friends who get hints.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,302Member Arc User
    cold#5127 said:

    I am sorry, but walls of text do not make the problem go away. My question is simple - is my hr going to be equal with a gwf? Also, why normal players cant test the mod, gaining insight on changes and avoiding the terrible losses on AH like play testers? You know what i am implying and ppl have friends who get hints.

    You're implying that play testers are cheating.
    And you want to be in on it.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Posts: 1,012Member Arc User

    Why all the bashing of the devs decisions all the time? This is one of the best games out there to play. Because of the devs and their effort making it.

    Let me guess, you came here after MOD10 : ) ) )

    True Neutral
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,302Member Arc User
    @schietindebux

    Nicely put.

    I'd agree with most, if not all, of what you said.

    The one thing I might disagree with slightly is around the use of situational Load outs.

    As soon as the data-miners know the stat balance for a given zone, we will all publicly know the stats for the monsters across the whole game in the same way that we have always known the AP score needed to hit the required Resistance Ignored total for all damage to get past the monsters' DR.

    As they said in the announcement the example of 1600 across the board will be how things are from here-on-in.
    So you will be able to to tweak your character on every zone/content to achieve the cap for Crit, ResIg, and so on. Thereby allowing you to redirect resources to increase say, Power, (if youre a DPS) in a lower level dungeon possibly helping offset some of the new Scaling reductions.
    (Remember, as soon as you hit L71 whenever you queue for a L70 dungeon, you'll be hit with the new scale back system based on IL...)

    You might get fed up of tweaking, and all those load outs become Zonal rather than "PVE" "PVP" "Boss" or "Mob".

    Of course, some people will hate the idea of changing anything, and we kind of already know who they are, but it won't deny them sticking to using a cookie cutter loud out, it will just offer another way to fine tune your character on a case by case basis... (and here's the important bit...) IF you want to.
  • cold#5127 cold Posts: 6Member Arc User

    cold#5127 said:

    I am sorry, but walls of text do not make the problem go away. My question is simple - is my hr going to be equal with a gwf? Also, why normal players cant test the mod, gaining insight on changes and avoiding the terrible losses on AH like play testers? You know what i am implying and ppl have friends who get hints.

    You're implying that play testers are cheating.
    And you want to be in on it.
    No, I dont want to be *in*. I want a fair chance for everyone since this is NWN 2.0. After the cryptic lines about recovery and life steal being out of fashion, the pc market should be flooded with items using those stats, right? Nope, it didnt happen. Care to guess why?
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,302Member Arc User
    cold#5127 said:

    cold#5127 said:

    I am sorry, but walls of text do not make the problem go away. My question is simple - is my hr going to be equal with a gwf? Also, why normal players cant test the mod, gaining insight on changes and avoiding the terrible losses on AH like play testers? You know what i am implying and ppl have friends who get hints.

    You're implying that play testers are cheating.
    And you want to be in on it.
    No, I dont want to be *in*. I want a fair chance for everyone since this is NWN 2.0. After the cryptic lines about recovery and life steal being out of fashion, the pc market should be flooded with items using those stats, right? Nope, it didnt happen. Care to guess why?
    Because the Earth is flat, and Lizard people run the world?
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