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K Team Optimal Compositions: "Tanks FTW"

dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
edited March 21 in General Discussion (PC)
Applies only to harder, high 1-death probability dungeons (FBI, mSP, CR...).

As we all know, in KTeam, DPS takes a back seat to survivability.
Simply no reason to bring multiple buffs and DPSers into a potential "one-hit" K team like FBI.

My crew are having great success w the "overtank" approach.

1) OP- Protection
2) GF- Tactician (running KV)
3) OP- Devotion
4) DPS- any ... possibly GF Conqueror for tanky DPS
5) DC- AC

All playing full mitigation/defense/healing (Astral Shield, Divine Protector, Knight's Valor, healing word/Have Faith, Blessing of Battle, Anointed Armor, Divine Armor, etc).

Takes a bit longer to finish, but having much lower fail rates (~ 2 tries/win so far) with this combo.

What other compositions are working for you?

Post edited by dread4moor on
JrUzbQw.jpg?1
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
«1

Comments

  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 999Member Arc User
    Out of interest how does the GF running KV stay alive on the hill climb?
  • dupeksdupeks Posts: 1,789Member Arc User

    Out of interest how does the GF running KV stay alive on the hill climb?

    They run with a team that minds their footwork. But yes, it's a risky business that.
  • eion311eion311 Posts: 322Member Arc User
    edited January 30

    Out of interest how does the GF running KV stay alive on the hill climb?

    I have high action point gain/recovery, couple that with Steel Defense, know when to use your shield, lets me be immune to dmg most of the hill climb when things are going down.
  • unthoughtknownunthoughtknown Posts: 96Member Arc User
    No TR.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 999Member Arc User
    eion311 said:

    Out of interest how does the GF running KV stay alive on the hill climb?

    I have high action point gain/recovery, couple that with Steel Defense, know when to use your shield, lets me be immune to dmg most of the hill climb when things are going down.
    Respect to you mate. And wow I have to say I am impressed - as Dupeks says above, gotta run a great team to stop that GF getting splatted. Excellent play
  • dragonlorddrmdragonlorddrm Posts: 3Member Arc User
    During my successful FBI K-Team run with the "Took" we actually went in with two Oathbound Paladin Protectors plus the Guardian Fighter for the triple tank action.

    I was strategically casting Absolution to add extra shielding to everyone in the party and we used alternating paladin bubbles to great effect particularly when fighting against the Dragon Turtle.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Out of interest how does the GF running KV stay alive on the hill climb?

    Good question. A few years ago, before invention of the wheel, when GF Protectors were still a thing I wrote a entire guide on shield use that explains this.

    [R.I.P. Bowser IV "Spiked Turtle". You are missed.]

    Steel Defense with high AP recovery, good timing of daily
    Teammates who are not COLOR BLIND (yes, looking at you, GWFs)
    High defense
    high stamina ("Permashield" was glorious in it's day, but no longer)
    Strafe with shield up at all times (side to side motion)
    constant tab-marking
    keep shield up
    stay facing your party (to keep them in CA).
    Stamina low? shield slam, shield bash or Enforced Threat.
    Strafe out of red.

    Do all of those things and KV will keep your party alive without killing your GF.


    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    During my successful FBI K-Team run with the "Took" we actually went in with two Oathbound Paladin Protectors plus the Guardian Fighter for the triple tank action.

    I was strategically casting Absolution to add extra shielding to everyone in the party and we used alternating paladin bubbles to great effect particularly when fighting against the Dragon Turtle.

    Thanks, DragonLord ("DL").

    Public praise and "shout-out" to The DragonLord ("DL").
    DL is a long-time veteran of NW.
    I met him years ago on his main (a face-melting GWF). But turns out his alts, including his OP, are solid. Great player, DL.

    True, DL, the MOST extreme application of "3 Tanks FTW" is exactly as DL describes:
    2x OP Prot, 1x GF Tact.

    I said as much on an OP forum last week.
    But you would not believe how much hateful negation I received proposing this on an OP forum! Not sure why.
    Not an expert in OPs so I gave no argument.
    Therefore, went with the 1 Prot 1 Devo 1 Tactician proposal.

    Now, I am empowered to say my original thought. I agree with DL:

    1 Prot, 1 Devo is fine for "hard" K Team.
    2 Prots are better for "hard" K Team.


    OPs out there... speak up and explain why we are right or wrong.

    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    No TR.

    I am very glad you spoke up, @unthoughtknown .
    My friends and I had a long discord chat about TRs in this "3 Tanks FTW" K Team theory.

    The most common criticism: What about TRs and SWs?

    In the recent Meta, TRs and (to a lesser degree) SWs seem to play second-fiddle.
    I agree with you. This is is unfair.

    But I would argue that, in the narrow thesis of this thread, TRs are MORE desirable then SWs.

    SWs have highest LFG demand for the Temp build's excellent buffing potential.
    Buff and DPS builds are (out of Meta-norm) LOW priority for K Team compositions.
    Buff is even less important then DPS build in K Team.

    Therefore, for the sole DPS slot in our proposed "3 Tanks FTW" composition...
    ... a TR is just as (if not more) desirable then a SW.

    @unthoughtknown , you cannot say that about any other LFG situation, can you?



    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • unthoughtknownunthoughtknown Posts: 96Member Arc User
    @dread4moor thanks for the feedback. I guess my comment was a little tongue in cheek as on main PVE channels I've seen things like LFM - DC, OP, GWF, SW, CW, HR :o

    So my feedback was more about TR in PVE then K team specifically.
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 2,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Makes me tempted to switch my HR main back into turtle-shell maximum survivability mode and try to get in a group. I think her damage resistance climbs past 130% in that mode.
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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,190Member Arc User
    edited February 1
    Hm, thanks for the threat. It indicates how unthought and unbalanced parts of this game still are... 3 tanks, one DC (another tank) and a GWF last tank
    PS : my warlock can switch into tank pvp mode as well and can show up with more HP etc than most PVE tanks show up with in KT groups, magic lords surcoat is awesome. Anyone run Ring of inpenetrability in KT, didn't try yet.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Hm, thanks for the threat. It indicates how unthought and unbalanced parts of this game still are... 3 tanks, one DC (another tank) and a GWF last tank

    PS : my warlock can switch into tank pvp mode as well and can show up with more HP etc than most PVE tanks show up with in KT groups, magic lords surcoat is awesome. Anyone run Ring of inpenetrability in KT, didn't try yet.

    I completely agree with your concern, @schietindebux .
    All my toons are support: GF tact (previously protector lol), DC, MoF...
    I am no stranger to being left out of the Optimal party.

    But this is a "guide" or "goal" (super tanky KTeam) not a hard fast rule.
    That last slot could be a SW-Temp , HR buffer or MoF just as easily as a DPS.

    In fact, my post said 'DPS- any".

    But I feel your frustration. As a GF tank purist, I had my job stolen by OPs years ago lol.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    Makes me tempted to switch my HR main back into turtle-shell maximum survivability mode and try to get in a group. I think her damage resistance climbs past 130% in that mode.

    I think a HR could fill that 5th slot in either your "tanky HR" or HR=DPS mode just fine.
    This was not intended to exclude any particular class.
    Just wanted to stimulate discussion on how we all can minimize KTeam wipes... which are VERY frustrating.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Posts: 535Member Arc User
    Not speaking of the optimal class but for a SW in K-Team, what is better: Damnation as it has better self preservation or Temptation for group healing and group buffs? I lean toward Damnation as I don't want to be "that guy" that dies and runs out the clock. I'm assuming Spark for both but that might be a wrong assumption.

    Thoughts?
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 5

    Not speaking of the optimal class but for a SW in K-Team, what is better: Damnation as it has better self preservation or Temptation for group healing and group buffs? I lean toward Damnation as I don't want to be "that guy" that dies and runs out the clock. I'm assuming Spark for both but that might be a wrong assumption.

    Thoughts?

    We've run several "3T-FTW" Kteams with a SW in the 5th slot and they did fine.
    Whichever one is best for whole-party survivability. Temp I think.

    I don't play SW @pitmonster#5684 , but as a GF and DC I felt much sturdier with a Temp in the 5th slot.
    Temp seems to fit the immortality motif of this KTeam theory.
    iirc, we ran OP-Prot, GF-tact(KV), OP-Devo, DCAC, SW-Temp with no wipes on etos and only 1 or 2 wipes on FBI and mSP.
    I will defer to the SW experts in the forum.

    edit: no wipes on etos Kteam w SW temp
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Posts: 535Member Arc User



    We've run several "3T-FTW" Kteams with a SW in the 5th slot and they did fine.
    Whichever one is best for whole-party survivability. Temp I think.

    I don't play SW @pitmonster#5684 , but as a GF and DC I felt much sturdier with a Temp in the 5th slot.
    Temp seems to fit the immortality motif of this KTeam theory.
    iirc, we ran OP-Prot, GF-tact(KV), OP-Devo, DCAC, SW-Temp with no wipes on etos and only 1 or 2 wipes on FBI and mSP.
    I will defer to the SW experts in the forum.

    edit: no wipes on etos Kteam w SW temp

    Thanks for the feedback.

  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,110Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

  • chemjeffchemjeff Posts: 425Member Arc User

    While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

    exactly. I love my GWF but he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 394Member Arc User
    chemjeff said:

    While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

    exactly. I love my GWF but he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.
    most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps :D , same reason i gave up on my HR years ago, fighting for dps position sucked, and people were too uneducated to know HR is excelent support.
    As for dream team, dont run 2x OP, auras and powershare gets wasted, its better to put OP DEVO on support duty, have support GF tank, while getting absolution from OP and KV on, should be easy that way.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    > @chemjeff said:
    > While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?
    >
    >
    >
    > exactly. I love my GWF but >he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.

    No argument from me about that. Factual.
    ITT, just coming up with objectively most successful compositions. No judgements of fairness or right/wrong intended.

    But if we started another thread on DPS woes, my response would be "market economics". Supply and demand.
    We simply have waaaay too many DPS mains for a game designed to be 60% support class.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Posts: 535Member Arc User

    While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

    90% of the games content is geared towards DPS and allowing DPS toons to get through content almost 2x as fast. Seems kinda odd to complain about that 10% content not geared toward DPS. Let the support toons have their 10%, there are players that actually enjoy playing support, healers, and tanks.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    leonidrex said:

    chemjeff said:

    While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

    exactly. I love my GWF but he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.
    most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps :D , same reason i gave up on my HR years ago, fighting for dps position sucked, and people were too uneducated to know HR is excelent support.
    As for dream team, dont run 2x OP, auras and powershare gets wasted, its better to put OP DEVO on support duty, have support GF tank, while getting absolution from OP and KV on, should be easy that way.
    @leonidrex , this seems to answer my question from 1/31/19 (scroll up) about having 2xOP-Prot vs 1Devo+1Prot in KTeam.

    Excuse my OP ignorance.
    I am a GF main since 2013 (and you OPs STOLE OUR JOBS after all... jk) .
    I do not understand something you said:
    You say that OP Absolution is augmented by (or synergistic with) GF Knight's Valor?
    I am always open to new synergies.
    Please explain that relationship.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 394Member Arc User

    leonidrex said:

    chemjeff said:

    While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

    exactly. I love my GWF but he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.
    most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps :D , same reason i gave up on my HR years ago, fighting for dps position sucked, and people were too uneducated to know HR is excelent support.
    As for dream team, dont run 2x OP, auras and powershare gets wasted, its better to put OP DEVO on support duty, have support GF tank, while getting absolution from OP and KV on, should be easy that way.
    @leonidrex , this seems to answer my question from 1/31/19 (scroll up) about having 2xOP-Prot vs 1Devo+1Prot in KTeam.

    Excuse my OP ignorance.
    I am a GF main since 2013 (and you OPs STOLE OUR JOBS after all... jk) .
    I do not understand something you said:
    You say that OP Absolution is augmented by (or synergistic with) GF Knight's Valor?
    I am always open to new synergies.
    Please explain that relationship.
    hi and no worries, its not about synergy per sey, it simply gives you 50% max hp as a temp hp, and since Devotion is supposed to have good recovery, you can simply get shielded with it time and time and time again, also devotion provides good heals and Shield of Faith that makes everyone take 30% less dmg, team takes less, less KV transfers, that amount transfered is reduced futher by 30% again, so abso shield + heals + shield of faith + KV should keep everyone alive and happy, i have succesfully compleated CR that way, and even survived vampire slam, without any temp HP.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    leonidrex said:

    leonidrex said:

    chemjeff said:

    While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

    exactly. I love my GWF but he's been reduced to just professions and guild mark farming. Parties will ask for my 15k OP over my 16.7k GWF all the time.
    most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps :D , same reason i gave up on my HR years ago, fighting for dps position sucked, and people were too uneducated to know HR is excelent support.
    As for dream team, dont run 2x OP, auras and powershare gets wasted, its better to put OP DEVO on support duty, have support GF tank, while getting absolution from OP and KV on, should be easy that way.
    @leonidrex , this seems to answer my question from 1/31/19 (scroll up) about having 2xOP-Prot vs 1Devo+1Prot in KTeam.

    Excuse my OP ignorance.
    I am a GF main since 2013 (and you OPs STOLE OUR JOBS after all... jk) .
    I do not understand something you said:
    You say that OP Absolution is augmented by (or synergistic with) GF Knight's Valor?
    I am always open to new synergies.
    Please explain that relationship.
    hi and no worries, its not about synergy per sey, it simply gives you 50% max hp as a temp hp, and since Devotion is supposed to have good recovery, you can simply get shielded with it time and time and time again, also devotion provides good heals and Shield of Faith that makes everyone take 30% less dmg, team takes less, less KV transfers, that amount transfered is reduced futher by 30% again, so abso shield + heals + shield of faith + KV should keep everyone alive and happy, i have succesfully compleated CR that way, and even survived vampire slam, without any temp HP.
    Best OP power practical explanation I have heard in a long time.
    You may have stolen my job, but you just won my respect. Cheers.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Posts: 535Member Arc User
    leonidrex said:



    hi and no worries, its not about synergy per sey, it simply gives you 50% max hp as a temp hp, and since Devotion is supposed to have good recovery, you can simply get shielded with it time and time and time again, also devotion provides good heals and Shield of Faith that makes everyone take 30% less dmg, team takes less, less KV transfers, that amount transfered is reduced futher by 30% again, so abso shield + heals + shield of faith + KV should keep everyone alive and happy, i have succesfully compleated CR that way, and even survived vampire slam, without any temp HP.

    Someone told me that Relentless Avenger procs AP, which is not listed as one of its attributes. I have switched to that on my OP Dev and it really does keep my AP pot filled and keeps Shield of Faith up 100%. Depends on how strong your party is, if they are strong then knocking enemies back irritates the melee DPS'ers. But under Devotion, you can target a allies and that helps when someone is in trouble.

  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 394Member Arc User
    @pitmonster#5684 RA gives AP for each target hit, and since it can hit allies as devo its very easy to get 1/4 - 1/3 ap bar per cast.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 987Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    leonidrex said:

    @pitmonster#5684 RA gives AP for each target hit, and since it can hit allies as devo its very easy to get 1/4 - 1/3 ap bar per cast.

    Interesting. That puts GF Tactician's Martial Mastery to shame.

    Still, a Prot, Devo, Tactician, ACDC, DPS combination will be busting one hell of alot of dailies in K Team.

    The resultant spam of AA, Divine Armor and/or HG makes for a very cozy KTeam run.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,110Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?

    90% of the games content is geared towards DPS and allowing DPS toons to get through content almost 2x as fast. Seems kinda odd to complain about that 10% content not geared toward DPS. Let the support toons have their 10%, there are players that actually enjoy playing support, healers, and tanks.
    No one is trying to take your game away from you. Practically ALL the content at RAQ level or above requires more than two support classes (at minimum entry IL) so it's a lot more than 10% of the game. It's all of the game as far as high-level enchantment and gear upgrades or decent loot.

    And there's no reason that a support class should have to be over-represented in any of it.
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Posts: 193Member Arc User
    I have seen Relentless Avenger give me over 2/3 of my AP back in a single hit. Used it on the first mob on the bridge in CN.

    No one is forcing anyone to take any support classes.
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