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For all of those hiding behind pillars now have to learn the actual mechanics.

I have a gut feeling as the this game continues to move forward content will become harder as the devs seem keen on removing the stacking of multiple buff roles. I have a gut feeling soon we will lose the private Q all together once all classes get two roles.

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  • spidey#3367 spidey Posts: 396Member Arc User
    vorphied said:

    <
    It's not about "learning mechanics"; it's about the fact that classes like SW and TR that inflict heavy damage over time while attacking normally are disproportionately affected by the mechanic.
    It's easy enough to say that players should pay attention and adapt, but it's unnecessarily annoying to have ticking DoT effects and SoD be reflected. Stopping any significant DoT-inducing DPS on her for long stretches of time in anticipation of her next Spite is not a fun way to play when the primary DPS in the party depends on certain powers and feats just to perform at par.

    They dont took away all possibilities to hide. Just let you know ^^ .
    But what i saw is they changed the whole event. After the patch you have a lot of time to stop your dot dammage. After she says "How dare you .bla bla bla..." she gives you now plenty of time to stop your dots.
    New thing:
    Now its very often 2 players getting chains.
    Another new thing:
    No adds at third sister.
    Still a bad thing:
    Bats!


  • sengir0#3465 sengir0 Posts: 54Member Arc User
    vorphied said:

    For all of those hiding behind pillars now have to learn the actual mechanics.

    I have a gut feeling as the this game continues to move forward content will become harder as the devs seem keen on removing the stacking of multiple buff roles. I have a gut feeling soon we will lose the private Q all together once all classes get two roles.

    It's not about "learning mechanics"; it's about the fact that classes like SW and TR that inflict heavy damage over time while attacking normally are disproportionately affected by the mechanic.

    It's easy enough to say that players should pay attention and adapt, but it's unnecessarily annoying to have ticking DoT effects and SoD be reflected. Stopping any significant DoT-inducing DPS on her for long stretches of time in anticipation of her next Spite is not a fun way to play when the primary DPS in the party depends on certain powers and feats just to perform at par.
    Don't worry bro, they got you this time. I heard TR was nerfed on next mod so the deflect won't hurt as much now
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    scarabman said:

    We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.

    Does this mean content will have leveling, regular and master? Or is the new higher difficulty feature just limited to the new skirimishes, similar to Gambit and being able to move up to gold with higher difficultly?

    For example we have
    Cloak Tower - Leveling
    Cloak Tower - Regular - Level 70
    Cloak Tower - Master
    vorphied said:

    For all of those hiding behind pillars now have to learn the actual mechanics.

    I have a gut feeling as the this game continues to move forward content will become harder as the devs seem keen on removing the stacking of multiple buff roles. I have a gut feeling soon we will lose the private Q all together once all classes get two roles.

    It's not about "learning mechanics"; it's about the fact that classes like SW and TR that inflict heavy damage over time while attacking normally are disproportionately affected by the mechanic.

    It's easy enough to say that players should pay attention and adapt, but it's unnecessarily annoying to have ticking DoT effects and SoD be reflected. Stopping any significant DoT-inducing DPS on her for long stretches of time in anticipation of her next Spite is not a fun way to play when the primary DPS in the party depends on certain powers and feats just to perform at par.
    It is about mechanics as I see tanks and melee dps classes die all the time on the sisters. Other than myself I have yet to see a tank or melee DPS not die on the sisters because the players are not playing to mechanics. The mechanics are easy if you pay attention to them. About the dot, again, it is simple if you know how to play within the mechanics. The whole excuse of it hits etc....I had PoP down on my SW and other DoT and when she spoke I stopped attacking and it did not kill anyone. Same on my CW with CoI, IT, etc....

    When content is buggy and causes you to waste unneeded scrolls if you play within mechanics that is the devs fault but if you burn through scrolls but are not playing to the content mechanics that is on the player.

    CR is one of the easier dungeons in the game, you just have to know how to play the the content.

    For instance, to many tanks on the 2nd boss move him right to the 3rd piallar immediately after the 2nd pillar is destroyed. If played correctly you move him towards the middle and fight him there so when he does his spin attack you can easily get him to one of the pillars.

    This game and its content is actually one of the easiest MMOs I have played. Honestly I just don't get all of the fuss about simple changes that encourages players to play more to the game mechanics. The devs work hard on creating content and all of these meta groups tend to avoid them by burning things without ever really playing to mechanics.
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,520Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    > @mebengalsfan#9264 said:
    > We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.
    >
    > Does this mean content will have leveling, regular and master? Or is the new higher difficulty feature just limited to the new skirimishes, similar to Gambit and being able to move up to gold with higher difficultly?
    >
    > For example we have
    > Cloak Tower - Leveling
    > Cloak Tower - Regular - Level 70
    > Cloak Tower - Master For all of those hiding behind pillars now have to learn the actual mechanics.
    >
    > I have a gut feeling as the this game continues to move forward content will become harder as the devs seem keen on removing the stacking of multiple buff roles. I have a gut feeling soon we will lose the private Q all together once all classes get two roles.
    >
    >
    >
    > It's not about "learning mechanics"; it's about the fact that classes like SW and TR that inflict heavy damage over time while attacking normally are disproportionately affected by the mechanic.
    >
    > It's easy enough to say that players should pay attention and adapt, but it's unnecessarily annoying to have ticking DoT effects and SoD be reflected. Stopping any significant DoT-inducing DPS on her for long stretches of time in anticipation of her next Spite is not a fun way to play when the primary DPS in the party depends on certain powers and feats just to perform at par.
    >
    >
    > It is about mechanics as I see tanks and melee dps classes die all the time on the sisters. Other than myself I have yet to see a tank or melee DPS not die on the sisters because the players are not playing to mechanics. The mechanics are easy if you pay attention to them. About the dot, again, it is simple if you know how to play within the mechanics. The whole excuse of it hits etc....I had PoP down on my SW and other DoT and when she spoke I stopped attacking and it did not kill anyone. Same on my CW with CoI, IT, etc....
    >
    > When content is buggy and causes you to waste unneeded scrolls if you play within mechanics that is the devs fault but if you burn through scrolls but are not playing to the content mechanics that is on the player.
    >
    > CR is one of the easier dungeons in the game, you just have to know how to play the the content.
    >
    > For instance, to many tanks on the 2nd boss move him right to the 3rd piallar immediately after the 2nd pillar is destroyed. If played correctly you move him towards the middle and fight him there so when he does his spin attack you can easily get him to one of the pillars.
    >
    > This game and its content is actually one of the easiest MMOs I have played. Honestly I just don't get all of the fuss about simple changes that encourages players to play more to the game mechanics. The devs work hard on creating content and all of these meta groups tend to avoid them by burning things without ever really playing to mechanics.

    I and many other players are aware of how the mechanics work.

    My point was that the mechanics themselves are, in this case in particular, clunky and irritating. Add in the boring and tedious Tome and Doppelgänger mechanics that remove players from the fight, and you have even more “fun”.

    While the intention may have been good, CR is already tedious and unprofitable compared to the other useful (read: UES) activities with all of its unskippable cutscenes, running around, and inconveniently placed early campfires.

    Anything that risks making CR take even more time is a bad idea, because players who got what they needed initially have little motivation to return.
    Sacrilege - SW
    Contagion - DC
    Testament - CW
    Pestilence - HR
    Dominion - OP

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User
    vorphied said:

    > @mebengalsfan#9264 said:

    > We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.

    >

    > Does this mean content will have leveling, regular and master? Or is the new higher difficulty feature just limited to the new skirimishes, similar to Gambit and being able to move up to gold with higher difficultly?

    >

    > For example we have

    > Cloak Tower - Leveling

    > Cloak Tower - Regular - Level 70

    > Cloak Tower - Master For all of those hiding behind pillars now have to learn the actual mechanics.

    >

    > I have a gut feeling as the this game continues to move forward content will become harder as the devs seem keen on removing the stacking of multiple buff roles. I have a gut feeling soon we will lose the private Q all together once all classes get two roles.

    >

    >

    >

    > It's not about "learning mechanics"; it's about the fact that classes like SW and TR that inflict heavy damage over time while attacking normally are disproportionately affected by the mechanic.

    >

    > It's easy enough to say that players should pay attention and adapt, but it's unnecessarily annoying to have ticking DoT effects and SoD be reflected. Stopping any significant DoT-inducing DPS on her for long stretches of time in anticipation of her next Spite is not a fun way to play when the primary DPS in the party depends on certain powers and feats just to perform at par.

    >

    >

    > It is about mechanics as I see tanks and melee dps classes die all the time on the sisters. Other than myself I have yet to see a tank or melee DPS not die on the sisters because the players are not playing to mechanics. The mechanics are easy if you pay attention to them. About the dot, again, it is simple if you know how to play within the mechanics. The whole excuse of it hits etc....I had PoP down on my SW and other DoT and when she spoke I stopped attacking and it did not kill anyone. Same on my CW with CoI, IT, etc....

    >

    > When content is buggy and causes you to waste unneeded scrolls if you play within mechanics that is the devs fault but if you burn through scrolls but are not playing to the content mechanics that is on the player.

    >

    > CR is one of the easier dungeons in the game, you just have to know how to play the the content.

    >

    > For instance, to many tanks on the 2nd boss move him right to the 3rd piallar immediately after the 2nd pillar is destroyed. If played correctly you move him towards the middle and fight him there so when he does his spin attack you can easily get him to one of the pillars.

    >

    > This game and its content is actually one of the easiest MMOs I have played. Honestly I just don't get all of the fuss about simple changes that encourages players to play more to the game mechanics. The devs work hard on creating content and all of these meta groups tend to avoid them by burning things without ever really playing to mechanics.



    I and many other players are aware of how the mechanics work.



    My point was that the mechanics themselves are, in this case in particular, clunky and irritating. Add in the boring and tedious Tome and Doppelgänger mechanics that remove players from the fight, and you have even more “fun”.



    While the intention may have been good, CR is already tedious and unprofitable compared to the other useful (read: UES) activities with all of its unskippable cutscenes, running around, and inconveniently placed early campfires.



    Anything that risks making CR take even more time is a bad idea, because players who got what they needed initially have little motivation to return.

    You like many players in many MMO games want things to be easy. That is all I am hearing. I left another game where the devs released a 8 man raid that had a normal and master version. I played both and beat both. The problem is that more than 70% of that game player base when that was released could not beat the normal. The normal required team work 100% and master version was 2x as hard. I loved it but I also defended the average player as it was a tough piece of content. I didn't want the master to be adjust just the normal. And like CR the reward for completion was not all that good.

    The mechanics in that raid was 100x harder than CR. CR is a joke as is all NWO mechanics. If you pay attenion it is as easy to beat content. I ran with a 15K group through CR and we beat it in under 40 minutes with 1 wipe.

    As for getting the gear from CR: DPS require the head piece and OP/DC require the chest and feet. There should be enough DPS and support players to help each other acquire the needed pieces. As for the rewards, I know one player that got 6 UES from 5 runs, so that isn't that bad.

    At the same time lets talk about CoDG. Yes it takes about 10 minutes to beat but there are day where you may spend 2 hours forming a group. When that happens you could have ran 3+ CRs.

    The only other end game content worth mentioning is T9 and well I know plenty of players that simply are taking a break from NWO as they are bored of running T9, waiting around for CoDG and simply don't see the value of grinding out CR to get slightly better gear than what they currently have. These players are now playing other games.

    CR mechanics are not that bad and quite frankly, I rather see the devs reduce our damage further across the board, reduce buffing and debuffing and than run CR. That would be where I would want things. I simply like content to be a being challenging and not a cake walk. IMO no one should be hitting Orcus 3-4 times in T9 and have him dead, this applies to any boss other than maybe CloakTower leveling missing. I like it when we actually have to play the game and simply not bam kill things.

    What I'm hearing is we want to steamroll content and any changes that does not allow us to beat all content in under 20 minutes should be adjusted so we can do just that. Honestly I hope the devs don't give in.

  • muratttimurattti Posts: 409Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    it didn't solve the problem of lag inside when you teleported up to the last stage of inclusion.
  • What's gonna be a problem isn't the mechanics. If they remove multiplicative buffs for instance, and all of the current dungeons are designed for them, it will create elitism worse than ever before. How much HP does the 2nd boss have? And how much time does it take to kill him?

    Well, make that time about 5x longer at the very least. We'd have chase items and dungeons that take 5 days to complete. No one would ever reach near end-game if they're not already there or are willing to wallet warrior it.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User
    murattti said:

    it didn't solve the problem of lag inside when you teleported up to the last stage of inclusion.

    That is different than mechanics where you need to stop attack, do object A, B, C, etc...

    The issue you mention is performance related to the game.

    I seen an issue where I got teleported to the middle and was instantly killed by an executioner that was standing right in front of me. That should not have happened but it did. A bug/glitch that caused me to use unneeded scrolls.

    On the sisters if I don't stop attacking and kill a group member or I don't turn away after 9 to 10 stacks that is on me as I did not play within mechanics. Just like on the 2nd boss, if I put him right between two pillars and he destroys both that is on me as a tank; bad decision resulting in a group wipe.
  • rafaeldarafaelda Posts: 517Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    scarabman said:

    We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.

    will that increased dificulty increase prizes or just for fun ?
  • brewaldbrewald Posts: 168Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    scarabman said:

    We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.

    Hi @scarabman
    That's a good job, I think private queues killed a part of the game but some new problems appear with this adjustment like:
    - one of my DPS is a GF --> Is he fragged as DPS or TANK?
    - my healer is a SW Templock ---> is he flagged as DPS or HEAL?
    - ...

    This issues are already present, it's why we played mainly in private Q.

    Have you find a solution to flag player by their build or it's impossible to do?

    Brew.
    Brewald - GWF 18.3k
    Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k
    Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k
    Valrik - DC AC 18.2k
    Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 3,983Member Arc User
    Pfff.
    It's not the difficulty, it's those bugs that kill fun inside that end content.
    And after last patch bugs got even worse... In all 3 boss fights.
  • burnthedead#7732 burnthedead Posts: 7Member Arc User
    K, are you serious? CR is a nightmare to random que.

    Most new runs see immediate requests to "kick me", or guys simply bail with abandon button and wait penalty to get a TONG.

    Anyone under 15k gs is leeching, their contributions almost unoticable.

    The doppelgangers prevent you from attacking maybe 30-40% of the time, (approx)

    10 seconds is barely enough time to get to the book after you kill a Sister, let alone destroy it, and if you can't=well do another 20 minute grind to get another try.

    Arcolith absolutely requires elite dps players, no one else does more than partial dmg. before the pillars run out.

    The "easy" part is the count himself, dodge and burn is standard.

    As to mechanics, simple equation;
    perfect mechanics + low gear score=wipe.
    Hi dps/buff+average mechanics=higher likelihood, or at least a chance!

    Proposed solution #1 No doppelgangers at Sisters. 15 seconds to destroy tome, up from 10. Not 4 but 6 pillars at Arcolith. (Use the two Developers removed from Sisters area.) and keep the Lame drops at the end the same.

    Proposed solution #2 15 thousand gear score minimum, plus one 18 thousand. Improved prizes!

    I'd also recommend a nice old cheddar cheese to go with my whine. :)
  • spidey#3367 spidey Posts: 396Member Arc User

    Pfff.

    It's not the difficulty, it's those bugs that kill fun inside that end content.

    And after last patch bugs got even worse... In all 3 boss fights.

    THIS!
    Totally agree!
  • hypergorila2hypergorila2 Posts: 73Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Dumb question here from an unskilled player.
    During the sisters fight we occasionally get targeted by those bat thingies.
    There used to be some wall mounted lamps on those evil pillars, were we could stood under and loose the bats.
    How do we do it now?
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,154Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2018
    5> @tgwolf said:
    > We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.
    >
    > Private Queues are one of the worst things ever added to the game, elitism is rampant and disgustingly overgeared players are beginning to actually think they are experienced at content when in fact they know absolutely nothing about the dungeons.
    >
    > All End game content needs not only a Minimum iLvL requirement but a MAXIMUM one as well so that players actually LEARN the mechanics instead of brute-forcing their way through content and far from encouraging Private Queue use, much more emphasis needs to be placed on using the Public Queue feature.
    >
    > Otherwise you'll be left with a game population of 40-50 players in maxed out gear who don't actually know how to play and everyone else will have left due to being sick of exclusion from content.
    >
    > Using CR as an example, a run should be performed by no more than 14k iLvL players, any higher cheapens the experience and removes any challenge, benefit, right to claim knowledge of the content and results in intolerable elitist players.
    >
    > If you're determined to push Private Queue use then at the very least adjustments need to be made to make people question if it's really worth it, such as vastly increasing the difficulty of any content run by a private group. If there are 18k players running a 13k dungeon like CR then MAKE it play like a challenge for 18k players. More enemies, harder enemies, less forgiving mechanics.
    >
    > Make players suffer for running content overgeared instead of rewarding them with pathetically easy runs.

    I'm almost 17k, and cr is no walk in the park. It all depends on your build not your item level.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,520Member Arc User
    edited October 2018

    Dumb question here from an unskilled player.
    During the sisters fight we occasionally get targeted by those bat thingies.
    There used to be some wall mounted lamps on those evil pillars, were we could stood under and loose the bats.
    How do we do it now?

    Barring some possible glitch with line-of-sight on the bat mechanic, that was just a myth. The bats have behaved unpredictably since CR came out, and sometimes they do nothing at all regardless of whether or not you are stacked with your party, hugging a lamp post, or hopping up and down on one foot.
    Sacrilege - SW
    Contagion - DC
    Testament - CW
    Pestilence - HR
    Dominion - OP

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,154Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Please remember when requesting stuff.. not everyone is using your mega powershare bonding builds...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • scarabmanscarabman Posts: 29 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer
    brewald said:

    scarabman said:

    We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.

    Hi @scarabman
    That's a good job, I think private queues killed a part of the game but some new problems appear with this adjustment like:
    - one of my DPS is a GF --> Is he fragged as DPS or TANK?
    - my healer is a SW Templock ---> is he flagged as DPS or HEAL?
    - ...

    This issues are already present, it's why we played mainly in private Q.

    Have you find a solution to flag player by their build or it's impossible to do?

    Brew.
    We will add more role options in the future but it's not something that will happen for Heart of Fire.
  • romromeroromromero Posts: 24Member Arc User
    tgwolf said:

    scarabman said:

    We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.

    Private Queues are one of the worst things ever added to the game, elitism is rampant and disgustingly overgeared players are beginning to actually think they are experienced at content when in fact they know absolutely nothing about the dungeons.

    I think private queues are important to the game. They allow family and friends to play together, figure out dungeons together and practice their play styles without the danger of getting "kicked out" by other players who do not know how to work together. You are right that there is elitism but it has nothing to do with private queues.
  • romromeroromromero Posts: 24Member Arc User
    scarabman said:

    brewald said:

    scarabman said:

    We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.

    Hi @scarabman
    That's a good job, I think private queues killed a part of the game but some new problems appear with this adjustment like:
    - one of my DPS is a GF --> Is he fragged as DPS or TANK?
    - my healer is a SW Templock ---> is he flagged as DPS or HEAL?
    - ...

    This issues are already present, it's why we played mainly in private Q.

    Have you find a solution to flag player by their build or it's impossible to do?

    Brew.
    We will add more role options in the future but it's not something that will happen for Heart of Fire.
    Or you can add player titles that say the type of build that they are playing (so that everyone in the team can adjust)... You know that line under the name that shows the "title" of the player? you can add titles like Tac GF or DPS GF or Healadin etc. I think that will at least communicate to the other team players what type of class they are getting so that they can adjust their play style or change their build to have a better balanced team.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User
    scarabman said:

    brewald said:

    scarabman said:

    We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.

    Hi @scarabman
    That's a good job, I think private queues killed a part of the game but some new problems appear with this adjustment like:
    - one of my DPS is a GF --> Is he fragged as DPS or TANK?
    - my healer is a SW Templock ---> is he flagged as DPS or HEAL?
    - ...

    This issues are already present, it's why we played mainly in private Q.

    Have you find a solution to flag player by their build or it's impossible to do?

    Brew.
    We will add more role options in the future but it's not something that will happen for Heart of Fire.
    I have to state that there was a very big miss with mod 15 announcement. You do all of these changes but leave us with the thought of why are these happening. Coming from a tech background where I am constantly communicating I find that communication is key with any development, not just in technology but in anything a company creates.

    Like I stated in another thread a communication should have occurred 1-2 days prior to releasing mod 15 on test preview stating that there is a long term goal and mod 15 is a move in that direction. That big miss really hurt the imagine of the company and many players that I talked to that have since walked away just from the September announcement would probably be here today if something was communicated prior to mod 15.

    Also, I am one of those that want Private Q removed or modify so that private Q is not the best way to Q up for content. IMO, just removing the treasure chest and seal awards from private q would encourage players to run the standard Q system and get more classes into content than what we see today. Making private Q simply a way for players to earn bragging right about how fast they completed content. In fact, I would bring in some type of award just for that so that way if you are in one of the groups that beat one of the end game dungeons the fastest that month you would get a title and say a R14 enchantment BtA pack or something. I mean it would be a nice change of pace to really show off how good you are as a player.

    romromero said:

    tgwolf said:

    scarabman said:

    We're unlikely to remove the private queue feature. In The Heart of Fire, we're even adding features to the queue that will encourage players to form their own parties to tackle content at a higher difficulty level.

    Private Queues are one of the worst things ever added to the game, elitism is rampant and disgustingly overgeared players are beginning to actually think they are experienced at content when in fact they know absolutely nothing about the dungeons.

    I think private queues are important to the game. They allow family and friends to play together, figure out dungeons together and practice their play styles without the danger of getting "kicked out" by other players who do not know how to work together. You are right that there is elitism but it has nothing to do with private queues.
    You can still do this with standard Q if your group consist of 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 DPS classes. The difference between private and standard Q system is private allows for a full group of tanks to play together, a full group of healers to run together or a full group a DPS or anything in between. Private Q is why there are meta group with 2 DCs, OP, and a GF. You remove private Q and the group becomes 1 healer, 1 tank and 3 DPS.

    Removing private Q would upset the masses as that would mean no 10 minute CoDG, no 12 minute T9 and 20 minute CR. Private Q ruins the game due to players stacking buffers to the point where content becomes to easy. Removing Private Q would make content a bit more challenging, even if you do preformed groups.

  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Posts: 74Member Arc User

    What's gonna be a problem isn't the mechanics. If they remove multiplicative buffs for instance, and all of the current dungeons are designed for them, it will create elitism worse than ever before. How much HP does the 2nd boss have? And how much time does it take to kill him?

    Well, make that time about 5x longer at the very least. We'd have chase items and dungeons that take 5 days to complete. No one would ever reach near end-game if they're not already there or are willing to wallet warrior it.

    Doesn't matter how long it would take as you gonna wipe after 4th pillar. Same issue in T9. For 12 minutes groups is easy. Can't beat Orcus before temporary HP runs out. Wipe. 2nd boss takes too long and he eventually does his stupid epilepsy inducing stuff. Bleh. That's not how you create difficulty. It's simply cheap, artificial difficulty. There's no difficulty at all. Not easy, not hard. You either are fast enough or not. Difficult and challenging is eGWD boss (at dunno 8k iLvl) while you're figuring out how to actually beat the boss and why she's invisible. You can go on for hours, whereas every recent boss means wipe at some point. Sisters. Wipe. Arcolith. Wipe. Strahd. Wipe. Tong-guy. Wipe. Withers. Epilepsy. Orcus. Wipe. Nostura. Wipe.

    Before they increase difficulty they have to create difficulty. "Mechanics" lol

    I like the executioner mechanics. Literally feels like a threat even if elites in CR are not that much of a challenge for endgame groups. And also when one player gets abducted into Strahds basement. These mechanics can be challenging but they can be overcome and are not too punishing like lag-induced forced wipes.

    I agree, however I wouldn't mind longer dungeons. T9 without the stairs and puzzle is pretty short. CR is beautiful, but then you are stuck during long tedious boss fights and cutscenes while in many of the corridors mobs are strangely absent. MSPC is beautiful as well (minus the lag and glitches) I could run it for hours with increasing difficulty after each completion.

  • spidey#3367 spidey Posts: 396Member Arc User

    And also when one player gets abducted into Strahds basement.

    Hide. No threat. Problem solved.
    CRs only problems? Bugs....god damnit bugs. 2nd sis, bats and loot that i wouldnt decribe as loot. 10 runs and 9 of them you get blue stuff? Srly?? Suxx..
  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Posts: 74Member Arc User
    True, being the abducted sucks no matter if you hide or run in circles. The other 4 party members have to actually coordinate their assault on nightmares while being under attack by explosions and bats to clear the phase as smooth as possible.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User

    What's gonna be a problem isn't the mechanics. If they remove multiplicative buffs for instance, and all of the current dungeons are designed for them, it will create elitism worse than ever before. How much HP does the 2nd boss have? And how much time does it take to kill him?

    Well, make that time about 5x longer at the very least. We'd have chase items and dungeons that take 5 days to complete. No one would ever reach near end-game if they're not already there or are willing to wallet warrior it.

    Doesn't matter how long it would take as you gonna wipe after 4th pillar. Same issue in T9. For 12 minutes groups is easy. Can't beat Orcus before temporary HP runs out. Wipe. 2nd boss takes too long and he eventually does his stupid epilepsy inducing stuff. Bleh. That's not how you create difficulty. It's simply cheap, artificial difficulty. There's no difficulty at all. Not easy, not hard. You either are fast enough or not. Difficult and challenging is eGWD boss (at dunno 8k iLvl) while you're figuring out how to actually beat the boss and why she's invisible. You can go on for hours, whereas every recent boss means wipe at some point. Sisters. Wipe. Arcolith. Wipe. Strahd. Wipe. Tong-guy. Wipe. Withers. Epilepsy. Orcus. Wipe. Nostura. Wipe.

    Before they increase difficulty they have to create difficulty. "Mechanics" lol

    I like the executioner mechanics. Literally feels like a threat even if elites in CR are not that much of a challenge for endgame groups. And also when one player gets abducted into Strahds basement. These mechanics can be challenging but they can be overcome and are not too punishing like lag-induced forced wipes.

    I agree, however I wouldn't mind longer dungeons. T9 without the stairs and puzzle is pretty short. CR is beautiful, but then you are stuck during long tedious boss fights and cutscenes while in many of the corridors mobs are strangely absent. MSPC is beautiful as well (minus the lag and glitches) I could run it for hours with increasing difficulty after each completion.

    Orcus HP temp buff can be extended by an OP tank. Even with a slow burn group if you run with an OP tank you should be able to get through Orcus no problem. Though Orcus is a DPS check. My rule of thumb if you are at Orcus and not completed by the 15 minute mark, just leave T9.

    As for Withers, again, there are mechanics to this fight just most people don't know them. When they do, even the longer fights you won't get all of the crazy animation.

    As for creating difficulty it is hard to do when a group is near BiS and running 4 buffers. One of the bigger problems with NWO is that buffs do not have a soft or hard cap. If it did, than the current meta would change and groups would run with more DPS but slowing down a group due to soft cap on buffs.

    As for CR, it is easy when it does not bug.
  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Posts: 74Member Arc User

    Orcus HP temp buff can be extended by an OP tank. Even with a slow burn group if you run with an OP tank you should be able to get through Orcus no problem. Though Orcus is a DPS check. My rule of thumb if you are at Orcus and not completed by the 15 minute mark, just leave T9.

    As for Withers, again, there are mechanics to this fight just most people don't know them. When they do, even the longer fights you won't get all of the crazy animation.

    As for creating difficulty it is hard to do when a group is near BiS and running 4 buffers. One of the bigger problems with NWO is that buffs do not have a soft or hard cap. If it did, than the current meta would change and groups would run with more DPS but slowing down a group due to soft cap on buffs.

    As for CR, it is easy when it does not bug.

    My groups rarely wipe, sometimes the orbs bug or orb curse bearer lags or disconnects or afks and orb kills main DPS but that's basically it, I think it's also weird a wipe at Orcus makes the dinosaur room more difficult (why is everything basically double punishing if your team struggles a bit?). Due to the fact I'm usually on my DC every now and then I get the honor to get into "stuck at boss, need DC" groups.

    I like Wither mechanics but other then epilepsy there's little incentive to do them. In general I like all mechanics that require multiple targets, kinda wish the engine would support boss with multiple hitboxes similar to hunting games or some ARPGs. This would allow a lot more strategies for boss fights, also make classes with high AoE damage and/or range stronger. And if you nuke bosses you won't be able to get the best possible drops. I think during the Barovia BHE you can kill the roots and deal damage to boss that way (I think it works that way, it doesn't do that much damage), it's pretty interesting mechanics but weird you can't do anything similar to any dungeon bosses, except maybe in eToS final boss using one of the giant spiders.

    CR doesn't have many interesting mechanics. You either wipe at some point if you fail to do certain things at the right time or as you said if you don't wipe runs are usually relatively smooth and "easy" since wipe mechanics or very high damage within a second or less + using scrolls possible is the only (artificial) challenge. Sisters are messy due to bugs and also lag just having half a second more latency makes it from no problem to you killing your teammates during the chains "attack me of you dare" phase. Tanks need to watch the stacks on de/buff bar which in general otherwise is entirely useless at least on console so that's another very unintuitive thing to do.

    There should be more in between. Buffs do allow for faster burn runs, but from my point of view lowering damage and buffs without introducing more interesting (and less buggy and lag-dependant) mechanics doesn't solve anything, it just makes runs take a few minutes longer.

    For current content, yeah, it's not just external buffs, also having all gear, comps, self-buffs, Soul Sight Crystal (which is exponentially stronger in burn groups if you kill bosses within 10 seconds) makes current endgame teams a bit stronger then they should be for running content as it's supposed to be designed. An average 13k group on the other hand isn't suddenly too strong for CR or even T9 running a full buff group and any changes to how buffs and self-buffs work would make lots of them run into problems with said mechanics and also increase the chance to run into bugs or lag-related problems. So while your suggestion maybe sounds good under ideal circumstances I don't see it improving things in general.

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