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AD exchange Back Log solution

mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User
To solve the backlog of AD exchange without much fuss or confusion is actually a pretty easy method.

1) create a time window for AD Exchange - make it no longer than 5 days.
2) All backlog items are given a 5 day window
3) Communicate this by a massive in game email to all characters
4) Communicate this by social media
5) Implement
6) Backlog is removed after 5 days
7) Pray that the servers don't crash due to the backlog

To me this is a straight forward way to resolve the backlog issue.

What the devs did in mod 13 instead is upset players who invested time or real world money by buying additional character slots to gain additional AD. The change in mod 13 really did not hurt botters as many already manage more than one account.
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Comments

  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 2,968Member Arc User
    zephyriah said:

    To solve the backlog of AD exchange without much fuss or confusion is actually a pretty easy method.

    1) create a time window for AD Exchange - make it no longer than 5 days.
    2) All backlog items are given a 5 day window
    3) Communicate this by a massive in game email to all characters
    4) Communicate this by social media
    5) Implement
    6) Backlog is removed after 5 days
    7) Pray that the servers don't crash due to the backlog

    To me this is a straight forward way to resolve the backlog issue.

    What the devs did in mod 13 instead is upset players who invested time or real world money by buying additional character slots to gain additional AD. The change in mod 13 really did not hurt botters as many already manage more than one account.

    How does this remove the backlog? I don't understand it. This may remove the appearance of a backlog for a short interval, but probably not even that.

    If you are simply removing unfilled orders after 5 days, players will relist them and backlog is back. It seems you are just suggesting using the AH listing policy in the exchange. As for number 7, the backlog puts no more strain on the servers than AH listings, probably much less. If I am misunderstanding, perhaps some more details will help.

    I don't recall if you ever played on PC. If you haven't, it's hard to get a good picture of the workings of the backlog as Xbox has never really had this issue, yet. The backlog is caused when the demand for Zen from AD exceeds the amount of Zen offered for sale. I would get really peeved if my listing request for Zen at 500 to 1 was removed without being filled and I had to relist and start all over hoping it will be filled within 5 days or I need to do it again. The backlog is often measured in weeks during specials (Jubilee, winterfest, black friday etc) and about a week at other times.
    yeah essentially it's just allowing others to cut in front of your place in line. I'd be peeved. I've sat in there for 2 weeks for orders to be filled before. it's just a que at 500ad per zen. the way for them to easily take care of it is just to seed the zax with some zen instead of waiting for someone to sell some zen. frankly i don't know why they don' t manipulate the market a little that way. it's not like zen is a legally traded tender lol
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  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,251Member Arc User
    zephyriah said:

    To solve the backlog of AD exchange without much fuss or confusion is actually a pretty easy method.

    1) create a time window for AD Exchange - make it no longer than 5 days.
    2) All backlog items are given a 5 day window
    3) Communicate this by a massive in game email to all characters
    4) Communicate this by social media
    5) Implement
    6) Backlog is removed after 5 days
    7) Pray that the servers don't crash due to the backlog

    To me this is a straight forward way to resolve the backlog issue.

    What the devs did in mod 13 instead is upset players who invested time or real world money by buying additional character slots to gain additional AD. The change in mod 13 really did not hurt botters as many already manage more than one account.

    How does this remove the backlog? I don't understand it. This may remove the appearance of a backlog for a short interval, but probably not even that.

    If you are simply removing unfilled orders after 5 days, players will relist them and backlog is back. It seems you are just suggesting using the AH listing policy in the exchange. As for number 7, the backlog puts no more strain on the servers than AH listings, probably much less. If I am misunderstanding, perhaps some more details will help.

    I don't recall if you ever played on PC. If you haven't, it's hard to get a good picture of the workings of the backlog as Xbox has never really had this issue, yet. The backlog is caused when the demand for Zen from AD exceeds the amount of Zen offered for sale. I would get really peeved if my listing request for Zen at 500 to 1 was removed without being filled and I had to relist and start all over hoping it will be filled within 5 days or I need to do it again. The backlog is often measured in weeks during specials (Jubilee, winterfest, black friday etc) and about a week at other times.
    I agree... The current backlog on PC is already back up over 5 million. This solution would not work for us as it is laid out in OP.
  • pteriaspterias Posts: 657Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    zephyriah said:

    To solve the backlog of AD exchange without much fuss or confusion is actually a pretty easy method.

    1) create a time window for AD Exchange - make it no longer than 5 days.
    2) All backlog items are given a 5 day window
    3) Communicate this by a massive in game email to all characters
    4) Communicate this by social media
    5) Implement
    6) Backlog is removed after 5 days
    7) Pray that the servers don't crash due to the backlog

    To me this is a straight forward way to resolve the backlog issue.

    What the devs did in mod 13 instead is upset players who invested time or real world money by buying additional character slots to gain additional AD. The change in mod 13 really did not hurt botters as many already manage more than one account.

    How does this remove the backlog? I don't understand it. This may remove the appearance of a backlog for a short interval, but probably not even that.

    If you are simply removing unfilled orders after 5 days, players will relist them and backlog is back. It seems you are just suggesting using the AH listing policy in the exchange. As for number 7, the backlog puts no more strain on the servers than AH listings, probably much less. If I am misunderstanding, perhaps some more details will help.

    I don't recall if you ever played on PC. If you haven't, it's hard to get a good picture of the workings of the backlog as Xbox has never really had this issue, yet. The backlog is caused when the demand for Zen from AD exceeds the amount of Zen offered for sale. I would get really peeved if my listing request for Zen at 500 to 1 was removed without being filled and I had to relist and start all over hoping it will be filled within 5 days or I need to do it again. The backlog is often measured in weeks during specials (Jubilee, winterfest, black friday etc) and about a week at other times.
    I agree... The current backlog on PC is already back up over 5 million. This solution would not work for us as it is laid out in OP.
    Over 9 million actually...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User
    edited August 2018

    zephyriah said:

    To solve the backlog of AD exchange without much fuss or confusion is actually a pretty easy method.

    1) create a time window for AD Exchange - make it no longer than 5 days.
    2) All backlog items are given a 5 day window
    3) Communicate this by a massive in game email to all characters
    4) Communicate this by social media
    5) Implement
    6) Backlog is removed after 5 days
    7) Pray that the servers don't crash due to the backlog

    To me this is a straight forward way to resolve the backlog issue.

    What the devs did in mod 13 instead is upset players who invested time or real world money by buying additional character slots to gain additional AD. The change in mod 13 really did not hurt botters as many already manage more than one account.

    How does this remove the backlog? I don't understand it. This may remove the appearance of a backlog for a short interval, but probably not even that.

    If you are simply removing unfilled orders after 5 days, players will relist them and backlog is back. It seems you are just suggesting using the AH listing policy in the exchange. As for number 7, the backlog puts no more strain on the servers than AH listings, probably much less. If I am misunderstanding, perhaps some more details will help.

    I don't recall if you ever played on PC. If you haven't, it's hard to get a good picture of the workings of the backlog as Xbox has never really had this issue, yet. The backlog is caused when the demand for Zen from AD exceeds the amount of Zen offered for sale. I would get really peeved if my listing request for Zen at 500 to 1 was removed without being filled and I had to relist and start all over hoping it will be filled within 5 days or I need to do it again. The backlog is often measured in weeks during specials (Jubilee, winterfest, black friday etc) and about a week at other times.
    I agree... The current backlog on PC is already back up over 5 million. This solution would not work for us as it is laid out in OP.
    The backlog you are probably referencing includes former inactive players in the game. My recommendation would remove all of the backlog that is older than 5 days old. Players that are not playing the game any more that are sitting in the backlog would be removed. Players converting AD to Zen daily/weekly would be able to update their AD exchange info without much impact to their request. My recommendation is not a perfect solution but it definitely will help reduce some of that backlog that exist.

  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,443Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    You're assuming that people no longer playing still have AD or zen in the exchange. Turnover, as slow as it can sometimes be, pretty much ensures that only active players have any resources in the exchange. So you'd be pretty much HAMSTER everyone over in the hopes of getting theirs faster.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,745Member Arc User
    edited August 2018
    People get upset over the most inane things. Don't think people will get angry at losing their place in line? And that is the best case scenario. Some will think the system ate their order and gave them nothing.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User

    People get upset over the most inane things. Don't think people will get angry at losing their place in line? And that is the best case scenario. Some will think the system ate their order and gave them nothing.

    That is why communicating is key. One you announce it social media, on the forums and by an in game email. You give players enough time to react to the announcement, a month time. Every week you post a reminder. This way, no one can feel cheated. Communication is key in making the blow softer for the majority. The issues I see that arise up in MMO games is lack of communication by the developer. Being pro-active will make it easier on their support team.
  • zephyriahzephyriah Posts: 2,893Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    People get upset over the most inane things. Don't think people will get angry at losing their place in line? And that is the best case scenario. Some will think the system ate their order and gave them nothing.

    That is why communicating is key. One you announce it social media, on the forums and by an in game email. You give players enough time to react to the announcement, a month time. Every week you post a reminder. This way, no one can feel cheated. Communication is key in making the blow softer for the majority. The issues I see that arise up in MMO games is lack of communication by the developer. Being pro-active will make it easier on their support team.
    I think you missed his point. In the case of a bad idea that does nothing to solve the problem, communication would not be a solution. It would simply build firestorm of protest in advance with players repeating the things I've already posted.

    Players will get angry for being removed from the exchange without their order being filled, even if they know in advance. I certainly would be angry for being removed in a move that will do nothing to reduce the backlog. As Nameless hero implied, people do not like waiting in a line and then losing their place, for any reason. Players who miss the announcement, and there will be many, are the ones who are likely to think their AD was taken and no Zen given. In fact, if this was done, that 30 day advance period may cause an increase in exchange listings, leading to an increase in the backlog, as players try to beat the removal date.

    You based your suggestion on a fallacy that inactive players are part of the backlog. Starting with a faulty premise leads to faulty solution. Your goal was to remove inactive players from the backlog, there are no inactive players in the backlog making this a faulty solution.

    There are really only 4 things that may reduce the backlog. The first three focus on possible ways of lowering the exchange rate and reducing the backlog by getting it under 500 and listings competitive. Reducing demand for Zen, reducing the amount of AD available, increasing the amount of available Zen for purchase, and removing the exchange cap so that the market settles at a stable level (somewhere over 500 at first).

    Each of these "solutions" has its own problems and concerns. As reducing the demand for Zen (less Zen sold) and raising the cap (Will make if more difficult for low income and ftp players, losing players) will have the most severe adverse affects on company income, they use the other 2 methods. They keep trying to reduce the amount of Ad (unsuccessfully so far, and this can also lead to player loss) and run periodic Zen sales to boost Zen in the economy.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User
    zephyriah said:

    People get upset over the most inane things. Don't think people will get angry at losing their place in line? And that is the best case scenario. Some will think the system ate their order and gave them nothing.

    That is why communicating is key. One you announce it social media, on the forums and by an in game email. You give players enough time to react to the announcement, a month time. Every week you post a reminder. This way, no one can feel cheated. Communication is key in making the blow softer for the majority. The issues I see that arise up in MMO games is lack of communication by the developer. Being pro-active will make it easier on their support team.
    I think you missed his point. In the case of a bad idea that does nothing to solve the problem, communication would not be a solution. It would simply build firestorm of protest in advance with players repeating the things I've already posted.

    Players will get angry for being removed from the exchange without their order being filled, even if they know in advance. I certainly would be angry for being removed in a move that will do nothing to reduce the backlog. As Nameless hero implied, people do not like waiting in a line and then losing their place, for any reason. Players who miss the announcement, and there will be many, are the ones who are likely to think their AD was taken and no Zen given. In fact, if this was done, that 30 day advance period may cause an increase in exchange listings, leading to an increase in the backlog, as players try to beat the removal date.

    You based your suggestion on a fallacy that inactive players are part of the backlog. Starting with a faulty premise leads to faulty solution. Your goal was to remove inactive players from the backlog, there are no inactive players in the backlog making this a faulty solution.

    There are really only 4 things that may reduce the backlog. The first three focus on possible ways of lowering the exchange rate and reducing the backlog by getting it under 500 and listings competitive. Reducing demand for Zen, reducing the amount of AD available, increasing the amount of available Zen for purchase, and removing the exchange cap so that the market settles at a stable level (somewhere over 500 at first).

    Each of these "solutions" has its own problems and concerns. As reducing the demand for Zen (less Zen sold) and raising the cap (Will make if more difficult for low income and ftp players, losing players) will have the most severe adverse affects on company income, they use the other 2 methods. They keep trying to reduce the amount of Ad (unsuccessfully so far, and this can also lead to player loss) and run periodic Zen sales to boost Zen in the economy.
    The problem is the platform and the fact the devs did nothing when people were abusing glitches to gain AD. The third issue I see is that PC probably has a harder time to attract new players to NWO than consoles. Consoles have less MMOs to pick from and due to that, NWO has a higher probably of adding new players for PS and XBox. As more MMOs on PS and XBox are added, the Zen exchange will reach similar levels to that of the PC. Overall though, the whole idea of exchange in game currency for a currency purchased with real world money should not even have exited. Instead the devs should have created an AD store for Zen purchasable items.

    For instance, make an enchanted key available for AD but make it cost 68,750 AD and make it in the WB and allow it to get the discount of other items but bound to account. The items added this way would cost !0% more AD but instead of waiting for the exchange, players can use their AD to buy the zen items they want.

  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 2,602Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    zephyriah said:

    People get upset over the most inane things. Don't think people will get angry at losing their place in line? And that is the best case scenario. Some will think the system ate their order and gave them nothing.

    That is why communicating is key. One you announce it social media, on the forums and by an in game email. You give players enough time to react to the announcement, a month time. Every week you post a reminder. This way, no one can feel cheated. Communication is key in making the blow softer for the majority. The issues I see that arise up in MMO games is lack of communication by the developer. Being pro-active will make it easier on their support team.
    I think you missed his point. In the case of a bad idea that does nothing to solve the problem, communication would not be a solution. It would simply build firestorm of protest in advance with players repeating the things I've already posted.

    Players will get angry for being removed from the exchange without their order being filled, even if they know in advance. I certainly would be angry for being removed in a move that will do nothing to reduce the backlog. As Nameless hero implied, people do not like waiting in a line and then losing their place, for any reason. Players who miss the announcement, and there will be many, are the ones who are likely to think their AD was taken and no Zen given. In fact, if this was done, that 30 day advance period may cause an increase in exchange listings, leading to an increase in the backlog, as players try to beat the removal date.

    You based your suggestion on a fallacy that inactive players are part of the backlog. Starting with a faulty premise leads to faulty solution. Your goal was to remove inactive players from the backlog, there are no inactive players in the backlog making this a faulty solution.

    There are really only 4 things that may reduce the backlog. The first three focus on possible ways of lowering the exchange rate and reducing the backlog by getting it under 500 and listings competitive. Reducing demand for Zen, reducing the amount of AD available, increasing the amount of available Zen for purchase, and removing the exchange cap so that the market settles at a stable level (somewhere over 500 at first).

    Each of these "solutions" has its own problems and concerns. As reducing the demand for Zen (less Zen sold) and raising the cap (Will make if more difficult for low income and ftp players, losing players) will have the most severe adverse affects on company income, they use the other 2 methods. They keep trying to reduce the amount of Ad (unsuccessfully so far, and this can also lead to player loss) and run periodic Zen sales to boost Zen in the economy.
    The problem is the platform and the fact the devs did nothing when people were abusing glitches to gain AD. The third issue I see is that PC probably has a harder time to attract new players to NWO than consoles. Consoles have less MMOs to pick from and due to that, NWO has a higher probably of adding new players for PS and XBox. As more MMOs on PS and XBox are added, the Zen exchange will reach similar levels to that of the PC. Overall though, the whole idea of exchange in game currency for a currency purchased with real world money should not even have exited. Instead the devs should have created an AD store for Zen purchasable items.

    For instance, make an enchanted key available for AD but make it cost 68,750 AD and make it in the WB and allow it to get the discount of other items but bound to account. The items added this way would cost !0% more AD but instead of waiting for the exchange, players can use their AD to buy the zen items they want.

    1. How anything of that is relevant to the brought up fact that the suggestion will not fix the backlog is any form, shape, or way.

    2. The ZAX with a cap, is the main thing that maintains ADs minimal value. In a simplification: Remove the ZAX and AD is worthless. Here in video form:
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  • zephyriahzephyriah Posts: 2,893Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    zephyriah said:

    People get upset over the most inane things. Don't think people will get angry at losing their place in line? And that is the best case scenario. Some will think the system ate their order and gave them nothing.

    That is why communicating is key. One you announce it social media, on the forums and by an in game email. You give players enough time to react to the announcement, a month time. Every week you post a reminder. This way, no one can feel cheated. Communication is key in making the blow softer for the majority. The issues I see that arise up in MMO games is lack of communication by the developer. Being pro-active will make it easier on their support team.
    I think you missed his point. In the case of a bad idea that does nothing to solve the problem, communication would not be a solution. It would simply build firestorm of protest in advance with players repeating the things I've already posted.

    Players will get angry for being removed from the exchange without their order being filled, even if they know in advance. I certainly would be angry for being removed in a move that will do nothing to reduce the backlog. As Nameless hero implied, people do not like waiting in a line and then losing their place, for any reason. Players who miss the announcement, and there will be many, are the ones who are likely to think their AD was taken and no Zen given. In fact, if this was done, that 30 day advance period may cause an increase in exchange listings, leading to an increase in the backlog, as players try to beat the removal date.

    You based your suggestion on a fallacy that inactive players are part of the backlog. Starting with a faulty premise leads to faulty solution. Your goal was to remove inactive players from the backlog, there are no inactive players in the backlog making this a faulty solution.

    There are really only 4 things that may reduce the backlog. The first three focus on possible ways of lowering the exchange rate and reducing the backlog by getting it under 500 and listings competitive. Reducing demand for Zen, reducing the amount of AD available, increasing the amount of available Zen for purchase, and removing the exchange cap so that the market settles at a stable level (somewhere over 500 at first).

    Each of these "solutions" has its own problems and concerns. As reducing the demand for Zen (less Zen sold) and raising the cap (Will make if more difficult for low income and ftp players, losing players) will have the most severe adverse affects on company income, they use the other 2 methods. They keep trying to reduce the amount of Ad (unsuccessfully so far, and this can also lead to player loss) and run periodic Zen sales to boost Zen in the economy.
    The problem is the platform and the fact the devs did nothing when people were abusing glitches to gain AD. The third issue I see is that PC probably has a harder time to attract new players to NWO than consoles. Consoles have less MMOs to pick from and due to that, NWO has a higher probably of adding new players for PS and XBox. As more MMOs on PS and XBox are added, the Zen exchange will reach similar levels to that of the PC. Overall though, the whole idea of exchange in game currency for a currency purchased with real world money should not even have exited. Instead the devs should have created an AD store for Zen purchasable items.

    For instance, make an enchanted key available for AD but make it cost 68,750 AD and make it in the WB and allow it to get the discount of other items but bound to account. The items added this way would cost !0% more AD but instead of waiting for the exchange, players can use their AD to buy the zen items they want.

    While absolutely none of that is relevant to your solution to reducing the backlog, I will address that this is also only speculation.

    The PS4 exchange, in spite of being in existence for a shorter period of time than Xbox and possibly having the largest player base currently of the three systems, is at 476 to 1 as I type this. It is also frequently, leading up to and during special events, at the 500 to 1 cap. PS4 had none of the PC issues you stated, but still managed to get a very high exchange rate. For comparison, the Xbox rate is 385 to 1(Checked after maint today). This should help to demonstrate that although PS4 and Xbox share a platform type, there can still be issues similar to PC problems and that glitches and abuse are not the only contributing factors.

    There are(Sgt Knox) and have been multiple threads suggesting AD sinks. Your key suggestion should be discussed in one of those. Those discussions to occur more frequently in the preview and PC forums.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,251Member Arc User

    zephyriah said:

    To solve the backlog of AD exchange without much fuss or confusion is actually a pretty easy method.

    1) create a time window for AD Exchange - make it no longer than 5 days.
    2) All backlog items are given a 5 day window
    3) Communicate this by a massive in game email to all characters
    4) Communicate this by social media
    5) Implement
    6) Backlog is removed after 5 days
    7) Pray that the servers don't crash due to the backlog

    To me this is a straight forward way to resolve the backlog issue.

    What the devs did in mod 13 instead is upset players who invested time or real world money by buying additional character slots to gain additional AD. The change in mod 13 really did not hurt botters as many already manage more than one account.

    How does this remove the backlog? I don't understand it. This may remove the appearance of a backlog for a short interval, but probably not even that.

    If you are simply removing unfilled orders after 5 days, players will relist them and backlog is back. It seems you are just suggesting using the AH listing policy in the exchange. As for number 7, the backlog puts no more strain on the servers than AH listings, probably much less. If I am misunderstanding, perhaps some more details will help.

    I don't recall if you ever played on PC. If you haven't, it's hard to get a good picture of the workings of the backlog as Xbox has never really had this issue, yet. The backlog is caused when the demand for Zen from AD exceeds the amount of Zen offered for sale. I would get really peeved if my listing request for Zen at 500 to 1 was removed without being filled and I had to relist and start all over hoping it will be filled within 5 days or I need to do it again. The backlog is often measured in weeks during specials (Jubilee, winterfest, black friday etc) and about a week at other times.
    I agree... The current backlog on PC is already back up over 5 million. This solution would not work for us as it is laid out in OP.
    The backlog you are probably referencing includes former inactive players in the game. My recommendation would remove all of the backlog that is older than 5 days old. Players that are not playing the game any more that are sitting in the backlog would be removed. Players converting AD to Zen daily/weekly would be able to update their AD exchange info without much impact to their request. My recommendation is not a perfect solution but it definitely will help reduce some of that backlog that exist.

    The backlog I am referring to is the (currently) 9 million Zen waiting to be purchased with AD. As I understand it, those purchases are processed in the order that they are received. Whether the player is online is irrelevant. So, there are probably not any orders from QQ players waiting in the Queue. There IS an estimate of 1 day of processing time per 1 million Zen in the backlog. Which means it will (currently) take 9 days for players to receive their Zen. Soooooo.... If all pending orders are removed after 5 days, then players 5,000,001 - 9,000,000 will be removed. And then they have to go back to the end of the line... to queue up again... to possibly be removed again... and NOT GET THEIR HAMSTERING ZEN!!! AGAIN!!!

    Hamster that. Right in the kitten. With a puppy.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User
    zephyriah said:

    zephyriah said:

    People get upset over the most inane things. Don't think people will get angry at losing their place in line? And that is the best case scenario. Some will think the system ate their order and gave them nothing.

    That is why communicating is key. One you announce it social media, on the forums and by an in game email. You give players enough time to react to the announcement, a month time. Every week you post a reminder. This way, no one can feel cheated. Communication is key in making the blow softer for the majority. The issues I see that arise up in MMO games is lack of communication by the developer. Being pro-active will make it easier on their support team.
    I think you missed his point. In the case of a bad idea that does nothing to solve the problem, communication would not be a solution. It would simply build firestorm of protest in advance with players repeating the things I've already posted.

    Players will get angry for being removed from the exchange without their order being filled, even if they know in advance. I certainly would be angry for being removed in a move that will do nothing to reduce the backlog. As Nameless hero implied, people do not like waiting in a line and then losing their place, for any reason. Players who miss the announcement, and there will be many, are the ones who are likely to think their AD was taken and no Zen given. In fact, if this was done, that 30 day advance period may cause an increase in exchange listings, leading to an increase in the backlog, as players try to beat the removal date.

    You based your suggestion on a fallacy that inactive players are part of the backlog. Starting with a faulty premise leads to faulty solution. Your goal was to remove inactive players from the backlog, there are no inactive players in the backlog making this a faulty solution.

    There are really only 4 things that may reduce the backlog. The first three focus on possible ways of lowering the exchange rate and reducing the backlog by getting it under 500 and listings competitive. Reducing demand for Zen, reducing the amount of AD available, increasing the amount of available Zen for purchase, and removing the exchange cap so that the market settles at a stable level (somewhere over 500 at first).

    Each of these "solutions" has its own problems and concerns. As reducing the demand for Zen (less Zen sold) and raising the cap (Will make if more difficult for low income and ftp players, losing players) will have the most severe adverse affects on company income, they use the other 2 methods. They keep trying to reduce the amount of Ad (unsuccessfully so far, and this can also lead to player loss) and run periodic Zen sales to boost Zen in the economy.
    The problem is the platform and the fact the devs did nothing when people were abusing glitches to gain AD. The third issue I see is that PC probably has a harder time to attract new players to NWO than consoles. Consoles have less MMOs to pick from and due to that, NWO has a higher probably of adding new players for PS and XBox. As more MMOs on PS and XBox are added, the Zen exchange will reach similar levels to that of the PC. Overall though, the whole idea of exchange in game currency for a currency purchased with real world money should not even have exited. Instead the devs should have created an AD store for Zen purchasable items.

    For instance, make an enchanted key available for AD but make it cost 68,750 AD and make it in the WB and allow it to get the discount of other items but bound to account. The items added this way would cost !0% more AD but instead of waiting for the exchange, players can use their AD to buy the zen items they want.

    While absolutely none of that is relevant to your solution to reducing the backlog, I will address that this is also only speculation.

    The PS4 exchange, in spite of being in existence for a shorter period of time than Xbox and possibly having the largest player base currently of the three systems, is at 476 to 1 as I type this. It is also frequently, leading up to and during special events, at the 500 to 1 cap. PS4 had none of the PC issues you stated, but still managed to get a very high exchange rate. For comparison, the Xbox rate is 385 to 1(Checked after maint today). This should help to demonstrate that although PS4 and Xbox share a platform type, there can still be issues similar to PC problems and that glitches and abuse are not the only contributing factors.

    There are(Sgt Knox) and have been multiple threads suggesting AD sinks. Your key suggestion should be discussed in one of those. Those discussions to occur more frequently in the preview and PC forums.
    At launch and until recently PS4 had many ways to glitch and bug the game to gain AD. I personally never used any such method. I do know a few players that bragged about making such gains and they even screen shared and showed me. To my disgust the devs allowed these glitches to stay on the PS4 for quite some time and some players could have easily earned millions a day. The player that screen shared, he earned over 250K AD in a matter of a minute or two. Than he did it again within another minute or two. So within 5 minutes or so a player earned 500K AD and never did any salvaging, AH sale, etc....

    Other players used other glitches to garner AD but these typically took some AD off the market. Also the PS4 did allow use to pray and earn at launch. I was talking to a few different people I knew and many maxed out there character slots just to pray and earn AD. Than when that was taken away, they would simply salvage 1 item a day on said characters for the bonus AD. These players know the trick on how to earn max AD and keep the influx of AD high.

    PS4 is closer to PC because there are more players out there and more players equals more AD in the market and more AD means more zen exchange request. More request means the rate of AD to Zen will grow over time and hit the cap faster. That along with the bugs as I pointed out is why the PS4 zen exchange is the way it is. I cannot speak for the XBox side of things as I don't play on XBox.

    The issue with the Zen Exchange comes from bad management of bugs and glitches. The devs are now trying to correct the backlog issue but this issue comes from the devs not taking care of bugs or glitches when they come up and resolving them immediately. If they would have, the exchange might be in a better place. They were not proactive but reactive and reactive solutions always have a way to take their time before you see the positive change of the solution.





  • zephyriahzephyriah Posts: 2,893Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited August 2018




    The issue with the Zen Exchange comes from bad management of bugs and glitches. The devs are now trying to correct the backlog issue but this issue comes from the devs not taking care of bugs or glitches when they come up and resolving them immediately. If they would have, the exchange might be in a better place. They were not proactive but reactive and reactive solutions always have a way to take their time before you see the positive change of the solution.





    It has become apparent that you are not interested in defending or modifying your proposed solution, but would rather deflect the topic to the cause. I was only interested in seeing if you could defend or modify your solution to actually work. There are more than enough threads for discussing the cause already.
  • omegarealities#7219 omegarealities Posts: 1,004Member Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Could you imagine what would if this "solution" was used in a real life situation? Imagine if on Black Friday a store went outside a stated, "Sorry you've been in line too long, you must leave". They would have to call the National Guard.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,251Member Arc User

    Could you imagine what would if this "solution" was used in a real life situation? Imagine if on Black Friday a store went outside a stated, "Sorry you've been in line too long, you must leave". They would have to call the National Guard.

    If they did this, I would actually participate in Black Friday. I would sell popcorn.
  • strathkinstrathkin Posts: 1,219Member Arc User

    zephyriah said:

    To solve the backlog of AD exchange without much fuss or confusion is actually a pretty easy method.

    1) create a time window for AD Exchange - make it no longer than 5 days.
    2) All backlog items are given a 5 day window
    3) Communicate this by a massive in game email to all characters
    4) Communicate this by social media
    5) Implement
    6) Backlog is removed after 5 days
    7) Pray that the servers don't crash due to the backlog

    To me this is a straight forward way to resolve the backlog issue.

    What the devs did in mod 13 instead is upset players who invested time or real world money by buying additional character slots to gain additional AD. The change in mod 13 really did not hurt botters as many already manage more than one account.

    How does this remove the backlog? I don't understand it. This may remove the appearance of a backlog for a short interval, but probably not even that.

    If you are simply removing unfilled orders after 5 days, players will relist them and backlog is back. It seems you are just suggesting using the AH listing policy in the exchange. As for number 7, the backlog puts no more strain on the servers than AH listings, probably much less. If I am misunderstanding, perhaps some more details will help.

    I don't recall if you ever played on PC. If you haven't, it's hard to get a good picture of the workings of the backlog as Xbox has never really had this issue, yet. The backlog is caused when the demand for Zen from AD exceeds the amount of Zen offered for sale. I would get really peeved if my listing request for Zen at 500 to 1 was removed without being filled and I had to relist and start all over hoping it will be filled within 5 days or I need to do it again. The backlog is often measured in weeks during specials (Jubilee, winterfest, black friday etc) and about a week at other times.
    I agree... The current backlog on PC is already back up over 5 million. This solution would not work for us as it is laid out in OP.
    The backlog you are probably referencing includes former inactive players in the game. My recommendation would remove all of the backlog that is older than 5 days old. Players that are not playing the game any more that are sitting in the backlog would be removed. Players converting AD to Zen daily/weekly would be able to update their AD exchange info without much impact to their request. My recommendation is not a perfect solution but it definitely will help reduce some of that backlog that exist.

    Sadly you miss understand how it works. No one would ever be able to sell Diamonds for ZEN then if they did what your suggesting. At least now you can always list but you may have to wait 1 day or so for every million AD backlog there is.

    If there is a 5m backlog it works out to about 5 days, or 9m backlog about 9 days, 15m backlog perhaps 15 days... But the current system is FAIR cause you can only request 5000 ZEN at a time. I'm pretty sure that's a total pending order not the maximum you can list and then repeat that two, three or four or more times...

    Yet I've also never tested if you could exceed 5000 ZEN if you made 3 order's of 5000 ZEN each. Now I would support they limiting the total pending quality of ZEN being requested to certainly no more than 5000. But perhaps it already works that way I'd at least imagine.
  • @wintersmoke
    LOL.... "Hamster that. Right in the kitten. With a puppy."
    You made my day! I laughed until I cried. :D
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,745Member Arc User


    The issue with the Zen Exchange comes from bad management of bugs and glitches. The devs are now trying to correct the backlog issue but this issue comes from the devs not taking care of bugs or glitches when they come up and resolving them immediately. If they would have, the exchange might be in a better place. They were not proactive but reactive and reactive solutions always have a way to take their time before you see the positive change of the solution.

    What bugs and glitches? The exchange is working like any other price-time priority exchanges you see in the real world. You put in an order and it will fill when all other better priced orders and older older orders at the same price gets filled. No surprises. There are no issues with the zax.

    The "problem" is order imbalance - way too many buyers and not enough sellers. They need to do something to encourage selling and discourage buying. With the price cap, there is no reason for zen holders to sell unless they needs AD. If the market was allowed to rise, then people would sell at some point, barring another cap. Of course, this hurts newer players.

    And to people with lots of spare AD, with no cost to acquire and hold zen, there is every reason to buy all the zen you can because if you ever need it, you won't have to wait. And if they ever lift the cap, cha ching!
  • zephyriahzephyriah Posts: 2,893Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    The issue with the Zen Exchange comes from bad management of bugs and glitches. The devs are now trying to correct the backlog issue but this issue comes from the devs not taking care of bugs or glitches when they come up and resolving them immediately. If they would have, the exchange might be in a better place. They were not proactive but reactive and reactive solutions always have a way to take their time before you see the positive change of the solution.

    What bugs and glitches? The exchange is working like any other price-time priority exchanges you see in the real world. You put in an order and it will fill when all other better priced orders and older older orders at the same price gets filled. No surprises. There are no issues with the zax.

    The "problem" is order imbalance - way too many buyers and not enough sellers. They need to do something to encourage selling and discourage buying. With the price cap, there is no reason for zen holders to sell unless they needs AD. If the market was allowed to rise, then people would sell at some point, barring another cap. Of course, this hurts newer players.

    And to people with lots of spare AD, with no cost to acquire and hold zen, there is every reason to buy all the zen you can because if you ever need it, you won't have to wait. And if they ever lift the cap, cha ching!
    To be fair, I don't think he meant bugs and glitches on the exchange. I understood him to mean that mismanagement of various bugs, glitches and cheats (Things like the gateway,those lockbox things that located AD and more) that allowed for more generation of AD than intended were dealt with, or often not dealt with, until and only when the problem became too large to ignore and even then, often with little to no consequences. This, in his opinion, caused the backlog.

    As someone who has been around since almost the beginning and experienced almost all the bugs, glitches, exploits etc (I missed Caturday, but was here for the Nightmare Inferno debacle.), I'd have to agree that it was a contributing factor to some degree. But, I don't plan to even guess the degree and we'll never see the numbers to know.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User


    The issue with the Zen Exchange comes from bad management of bugs and glitches. The devs are now trying to correct the backlog issue but this issue comes from the devs not taking care of bugs or glitches when they come up and resolving them immediately. If they would have, the exchange might be in a better place. They were not proactive but reactive and reactive solutions always have a way to take their time before you see the positive change of the solution.

    What bugs and glitches? The exchange is working like any other price-time priority exchanges you see in the real world. You put in an order and it will fill when all other better priced orders and older older orders at the same price gets filled. No surprises. There are no issues with the zax.

    The "problem" is order imbalance - way too many buyers and not enough sellers. They need to do something to encourage selling and discourage buying. With the price cap, there is no reason for zen holders to sell unless they needs AD. If the market was allowed to rise, then people would sell at some point, barring another cap. Of course, this hurts newer players.

    And to people with lots of spare AD, with no cost to acquire and hold zen, there is every reason to buy all the zen you can because if you ever need it, you won't have to wait. And if they ever lift the cap, cha ching!
    On PS4 one bug was you could setup an exchange and if you timed it right you would get back 2x what you placed. I mentioned earlier that someone generated 250K in under 2 minute than again within a few more minutes. That glitch allowed this player to max his character out, he admitted to it. He also was able to open 2 LB with 1 key every time earning him additional AD.

    How are these not glitching the game impacting AD and the exchange.

    What about the guild maps; players who simply leave what is in the cache to change zone is abusing a glitch to gain AD by changing zone to acquire the item that sells more. The player that just picks up the cache is losing out on the extra AD and that player is acquiring the items as intended.

    This game has plenty of bugs and glitches that allowed others to acquire unfair and unacceptable AD. Another glitch is the AH listing an item as epic but it was only uncommon. I got ripped off a few times like this, different seller taking advantage of an in game glitch gaining additional AD unethically.

    My real solution is so much harsher than what I wrote here. What I wrote here is more of a pain that a kick to the crotch. My real solution is this. Shut the zen exchange down for 3 months. Cryptic pulls data and analysis to see who abused the game and has gained unfair AD. Penalize any player who exceeds 500K AD from such glitches in form of removing AD equal to what they gained and communicate this after they remove the AD. After removal of unfair AD gains is gone from the system turn back on the AD exchange, change max AD from character to account and drop the amount from 100M to 50M, and add new market designed around styles including mounts that cost some AD as another AD sink.

    If Cryptic cannot acquire the AD that a player has glitched, they will be ban for 1 day for each 10K earned through unfair means.

    That is how I would solve the problem, it would remove at least most of the AD gained through unethical means.
  • agilestoagilesto Posts: 385Member Arc User


    My real solution is so much harsher than what I wrote here. What I wrote here is more of a pain that a kick to the crotch. My real solution is this. Shut the zen exchange down for 3 months. Cryptic pulls data and analysis to see who abused the game and has gained unfair AD. Penalize any player who exceeds 500K AD from such glitches in form of removing AD equal to what they gained and communicate this after they remove the AD. After removal of unfair AD gains is gone from the system turn back on the AD exchange, change max AD from character to account and drop the amount from 100M to 50M, and add new market designed around styles including mounts that cost some AD as another AD sink.

    If Cryptic cannot acquire the AD that a player has glitched, they will be ban for 1 day for each 10K earned through unfair means.

    That is how I would solve the problem, it would remove at least most of the AD gained through unethical means.

    Shut the ZAX down, for a period of time long enough for devs to do so. You mean by this way that the game no longer stays a free-to-play, since you can't acquire Zen outside of real money anymore. How do you think that'll work out, both for playerbase (prepare for a bigger scandal than coalgate, keygate, bondings and random queues combined) and the company's reputation?

    And on your idea, why begin at 500k from such glichtes? 499.999 doesn't seem that different. It's either you track all players (supposing there are such ZAX glichtes existing in game) and punish everyone that did it, or you don't do anything.

    I also wonder why changing the limit per character down to 50M? I mean only 2 types of items exceed that amount on AH: legendary profession assets, that no longer would be listed on AH because their value is far greater than 50M ; and the recent Sergeant Knox AD sink that went 2 times for over that amount.
    You think that limiting 50M per character will change a thing? But we have a way to transfer AD to other characters, be it ZAX from pre-M14, or shared bank from M14. So even with that change you can technically still have unlimited AD on an account. So what would this change.



  • athena#9205 athena Posts: 575Member Arc User
    The solution i see is the remove the greatest need for Zen in the first place. Some items can be placed into the bazaar, and some have been. But much of what is bought with zen is sold in AH to make a profit with AD. The items that are NOT turned around to sell on AH should be 'bought' in a different way. For instance, character slots. I spent over a month waiting for a few hundred zen to get character slots. If this instead was placed into the bazaar for a certain amount of AD then that would eliminate the need to get zen for that item. Also, IMHO, when you buy zen from AD any item bought with that zen should be bound to account. This will force more people to buy zen with money and not through ZAX to make their profit, as was intended in the first place. The coders can do this by changing ZAX to give you a different currency and those items then can be bought with zen or that new currency, just the new currency item is BTA. This can be made more alluring by reducing the cost of the new currency (call it 'C' ) price by 10% or such. For example: (i don't have the figures out right now) SKT campaign 5000 zen or 4500 C, before coupons AH sells that 5k zen item for 2.5 million AD while it can be exchanged to C for 2.25 million. Advantage going C is that its guaranteed, its instant and it helps the economy. Going ZAX means you want to buy/sell stuff an not use it for your self. I estimate that about a third of the zen requests are for items for personal use and not for selling on AH. Doing this means that 3rd of the the backlog just got eliminated. 9 million becomes 6 million. If my reasoning isn't sound please tell me.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User
    agilesto said:


    My real solution is so much harsher than what I wrote here. What I wrote here is more of a pain that a kick to the crotch. My real solution is this. Shut the zen exchange down for 3 months. Cryptic pulls data and analysis to see who abused the game and has gained unfair AD. Penalize any player who exceeds 500K AD from such glitches in form of removing AD equal to what they gained and communicate this after they remove the AD. After removal of unfair AD gains is gone from the system turn back on the AD exchange, change max AD from character to account and drop the amount from 100M to 50M, and add new market designed around styles including mounts that cost some AD as another AD sink.

    If Cryptic cannot acquire the AD that a player has glitched, they will be ban for 1 day for each 10K earned through unfair means.

    That is how I would solve the problem, it would remove at least most of the AD gained through unethical means.

    Shut the ZAX down, for a period of time long enough for devs to do so. You mean by this way that the game no longer stays a free-to-play, since you can't acquire Zen outside of real money anymore. How do you think that'll work out, both for playerbase (prepare for a bigger scandal than coalgate, keygate, bondings and random queues combined) and the company's reputation?

    And on your idea, why begin at 500k from such glichtes? 499.999 doesn't seem that different. It's either you track all players (supposing there are such ZAX glichtes existing in game) and punish everyone that did it, or you don't do anything.

    I also wonder why changing the limit per character down to 50M? I mean only 2 types of items exceed that amount on AH: legendary profession assets, that no longer would be listed on AH because their value is far greater than 50M ; and the recent Sergeant Knox AD sink that went 2 times for over that amount.
    You think that limiting 50M per character will change a thing? But we have a way to transfer AD to other characters, be it ZAX from pre-M14, or shared bank from M14. So even with that change you can technically still have unlimited AD on an account. So what would this change.



    Removal of the ZAX would not remove the F2P model of NW. F2P is when the game is 100% open to the public without any paywall to play all content and you can obtain max gear score without making any purchase; NW would still have this even without the ZAX exchange. The only thing F2P player would miss out on is being able to purchase VIP by exchanging AD for Zen. Now you would have to buy it with real world currency, so what, that type of transaction is very common in other F2P games where the membership of added perks cost real world money but the rest of the game is 100% free which is how a game can be labeled as F2P. Players willing to buy items and sell them on the AH still can do that, etc and it would be for a limited time for the devs to remove any AD gains through glitches and bugs.

    As for you unlimited exchange using ZAX that is not true given you are limited on the number of exchange you can have at once and we are going from 100M on one character to 50M on the account. Combine that with the ZAX exchange limit being account bound you will be limited on the amount of AD you can have on your account vs. now.

    Since I buy with real world currency what I want for key, mount, VIP, etc...I see no issue here from my end. I don't rely on AD to get what I want in this game. I realized a while ago that I get more getting a job and buying what I want than grinding it out on NWO. I do play and have gotten items that you can only get from playing but I will not grind it out for AD and believe I should be able to swap it for zen to buy VIP or other things in the zen store. I use my AD for SMOP, UMOP, etc... things I know I can buy with them without relying for an exchange. That is just me, a supporter of the game by actually using real world currency to buy things.


  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,443Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    And all the zen in the game is there because someone did spend real money to get it...
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,745Member Arc User
    edited August 2018


    On PS4 one bug was you could setup an exchange and if you timed it right you would get back 2x what you placed. I mentioned earlier that someone generated 250K in under 2 minute than again within a few more minutes. That glitch allowed this player to max his character out, he admitted to it. He also was able to open 2 LB with 1 key every time earning him additional AD.

    How are these not glitching the game impacting AD and the exchange.

    Bugs happen. Devs seem to be able to find and fix them relatively fast. That's the best you can hope for. As for the ill-gotten wealth, probably only a small percentage of the population took advantage of them. I've been around since mod 2 and I've never gotten wind of any exploit and was able to take a advantage of it just a bit. Good thing many people are stupid. They find an exploit and can't help but tell others about it. Then they all exploits the HAMSTER out of it and get busted. Thank goodness for stupid greed.

    I think where things went wrong was someone thought it was a good idea to allow accounts with 50+ toons. They couldn't just take it away since many people paid money for them.Then they took they time shutting down leadership AD and the gateway. But there was still the daily RAD each toon can get. By that time, with the power creep, people were able to stitch together trashy toons to get carried in 2xeToS and 2xeSoT and be able to earn more than the 36K/toon refinement limit. That's been stopped now.

    Unless some draconian measure is taken, like closing the zax, or a wealth tax, it's going to take time for the excess AD to work its way through the system. Think more people would be comfortable giving it time.
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