demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited August 2018
> @scarabman said: > We've talked about adding more maps to PvP and we'd love to do it. However, we recognize there have been issues with PvP balance and we have decided to put our PvP focus on that problem, first. We've been working toward that goal over the last couple of expansions by hitting some of the largest problems faced in PvP and there are more changes in the pipeline that will come in M15. > > The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking. > > What kinds of new things would you most be interested in seeing? Personally, I'd like to see a 3v3 deathmatch option and a PvP boons rework.
Lifesteal is not an issue anymore due to the lifesteal nerf that took place. Wheel of elements is more of an issue than lifesteal. It heals much more than those with super lifesteal.
Recovery can be fixed just by giving all daily powers a fixed cool down not based on recovery.
I would personally love to see mounts with combat powers much like the skeleton knight in barovia. Along with this new mount weapons that we can aquire to use on our beasts.
E.g. encounter powers will all be based on type of mount we have. At will powers will be based on the Mount weapon we aquire.
It could work well...
Perhaps mythic mounts could be like this?
Also instead of being knocked off the mount based on the damage done or so many hits, give the mounted player a second hit points bar that when depleted the player is knocked off the mount. If you're knocked off a mount the penalty should be prone for 2 to 3 seconds.
Mount weapons example Joust/Lance At will 1 = thrust Knocks the enemy back 20m and prones for 2 seconds At will 2 = impale Stabs the enemy and lifting them into the air (if the enemy is killed in this fashion let the body stay on the joust and until player respawns).
Post edited by demonmonger on
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I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
We've talked about adding more maps to PvP and we'd love to do it. However...
How difficult would it be to say... take some existing pve maps, and slap 3 nodes on it? Or just have no nodes with an introduction of a new 3v3 deathmatch gametype, which is something i think most would welcome, and which shouldn't require much work at all.
The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking.
I don't understand how that could be the biggest hurdle. If it's a consensus out of control, then just put a cap on the percentage where it wouldn't be out of control. Recovery is a problem, namely on trs with 100% deflect and cc immunity via an encounter power on almost no cooldown + an aoe cc encounter power with no downtime. But lifesteal? The healing derpression in pvp makes lifesteal pretty pathetic, and with the new 25% deflection enchant, i dont see any reason not to stack deflect to the sky. Deflection, and severity of trs deflections, are much more out of control than lifesteal. If we are talking about out of control healing, then look no further than gift of faith with no cooldown, and heals for more than an entire players healthbar.
What kinds of new things would you most be interested in seeing? Personally, I'd like to see a 3v3 deathmatch option and a PvP boons rework.
Both of those sound good. Also, i don't see why maps cant be recycled from pve, and quickly revamped for pvp. Rewards will be be tough, and i could see this being your biggest hurdle, well... maybe 2nd biggest hurdle only behindd complete class balance. Rewards will be challenging namely because of class balance, as well as boosting, and possibly botting (pc only). Also, i dont have a problem with stun items or proc on daily items, but just make sure they have cooldowns, and that the cooldowns actua... nevermind, no more stun items or items that have procs on dailies.
Also, it would be nice to be able to play with friends again on the same team (3v3 deathmatch would be good). Ever since the release of solo q, regular q has been dead, unless you want to wait 30 mins (being generous here) to instantly campfire 5k iL scrubs, who probably don't even realise that there's a solo q.
Exclusive (relevant ) rewards acquired ONLY through PVP.
Barebones mode where its simply stats from gear. No bonuses from any sources.
Singles ladder mode
A fix to the que synching issue.
Is it possible to integrate a auto kick function like Call of DUty has for those that like to just camp out at the campfire?
If you can only select/work on one issue I'd say that bare bones mode or just outright disable pve gear bonuses in pvp would be a very good first step.
Overall im on console. We havent gotten mod 14 yet, but im hearing good things pvp wise outside of cowl. That doesnt seem to be a huge issue from what ive seen though since its not at the level of the mane multi proc
Exclusive (relevant ) rewards acquired ONLY through PVP.
Barebones mode where its simply stats from gear. No bonuses from any sources.
Singles ladder mode
A fix to the que synching issue.
Is it possible to integrate a auto kick function like Call of DUty has for those that like to just camp out at the campfire?
If you can only select/work on one issue I'd say that bare bones mode or just outright disable pve gear bonuses in pvp would be a very good first step.
Overall im on console. We havent gotten mod 14 yet, but im hearing good things pvp wise outside of cowl. That doesnt seem to be a huge issue from what ive seen though since its not at the level of the mane multi proc
IMO reward should be made unsalvageable so that no AD could be made from pvp. Without profit, there is no reason for botter to be in pvp.
PvP used to give AD and it was swarmed with bots, I'm glad they removed the reward. It would be a mistake to re-introduce AD rewards. Stuff like dyes, fashion, titles etc. would be a much better reward.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Pvp still gives ad.....
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I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking.
I don't understand how that could be the biggest hurdle. If it's a consensus out of control, then just put a cap on the percentage where it wouldn't be out of control. Recovery is a problem, namely on trs with 100% deflect and cc immunity via an encounter power on almost no cooldown + an aoe cc encounter power with no downtime. But lifesteal? The healing derpression in pvp makes lifesteal pretty pathetic, and with the new 25% deflection enchant, i dont see any reason not to stack deflect to the sky. Deflection, and severity of trs deflections, are much more out of control than lifesteal. If we are talking about out of control healing, then look no further than gift of faith with no cooldown, and heals for more than an entire players healthbar.
Life steal and stat stacking is absolutely a problem. You get unkillable GWFs and TRs when they stack high enough lifesteal, as they also dish out a truckload of damage and heal up fully while killing the enemy.
The faithful DC can't kill any enemies or clear nodes, and does nothing besides healing.
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited August 2018
> @vordayn said: > The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking. > > I don't understand how that could be the biggest hurdle. If it's a consensus out of control, then just put a cap on the percentage where it wouldn't be out of control. Recovery is a problem, namely on trs with 100% deflect and cc immunity via an encounter power on almost no cooldown + an aoe cc encounter power with no downtime. But lifesteal? The healing derpression in pvp makes lifesteal pretty pathetic, and with the new 25% deflection enchant, i dont see any reason not to stack deflect to the sky. Deflection, and severity of trs deflections, are much more out of control than lifesteal. If we are talking about out of control healing, then look no further than gift of faith with no cooldown, and heals for more than an entire players healthbar. > > > Life steal and stat stacking is absolutely a problem. You get unkillable GWFs and TRs when they stack high enough lifesteal, as they also dish out a truckload of damage and heal up fully while killing the enemy. > > The faithful DC can't kill any enemies or clear nodes, and does nothing besides healing. > > Your comparison is laughable.
I tried to tell them this in mod 6.... It's not so.bad now with lifesteal nerf
Tr that heal up now have mount bonus heals and boons that heal them on deflection plus super deflection. It's not lifesteal.. oh yeah and wheel of elements...
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I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
i personally think that PVP should also be a part of the game maybe even have a mix of PVP and PVE content like old gauntlgrym did (too bad i joined after it was taken down so i never got ot play it ) i beileivethat PVP should be big part of any game because PVE can only provide so much contentt while PVP dosn't need to be provided with huge content update other than maps and few things to keep it active and it's the go to when players have reached the goal of a current expansion end game so it should be given a lot of importance
PvP used to give AD and it was swarmed with bots, I'm glad they removed the reward. It would be a mistake to re-introduce AD rewards. Stuff like dyes, fashion, titles etc. would be a much better reward.
stuff like this nobody will bother play PVP for it
How to make both PvErs and PvPers angry at once 101. Majority of the players don't care about one or the other, so forcing it onto them won't make them suddenly like it.
The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking.
I don't understand how that could be the biggest hurdle. If it's a consensus out of control, then just put a cap on the percentage where it wouldn't be out of control. Recovery is a problem, namely on trs with 100% deflect and cc immunity via an encounter power on almost no cooldown + an aoe cc encounter power with no downtime. But lifesteal? The healing derpression in pvp makes lifesteal pretty pathetic, and with the new 25% deflection enchant, i dont see any reason not to stack deflect to the sky. Deflection, and severity of trs deflections, are much more out of control than lifesteal. If we are talking about out of control healing, then look no further than gift of faith with no cooldown, and heals for more than an entire players healthbar.
Life steal and stat stacking is absolutely a problem. You get unkillable GWFs and TRs when they stack high enough lifesteal, as they also dish out a truckload of damage and heal up fully while killing the enemy.
The faithful DC can't kill any enemies or clear nodes, and does nothing besides healing.
Your comparison is laughable.
Appreciate the response. Your comment is laughable. And if the above scenario is true in all cases, and it's a problem, then they should remove lifesteal from pvp as its too effective at doing what the stat should do. clearly. lol.
I think you could benefit from testing lifesteal out on someone who actually has gear and is hitting back so you get the healing depression debuff on you, not on a training dummy 5k pug where every hit may do 50-200k, and they likely aren't even able to hit back to give you the debuff. Bottom line is stacking lifesteal is sacrificing stacking much better defensive stats like hp and deflection, or even possibly defense. And as long as solo q is the only game to q for, gwf should be near the bottom of the concerns pile when it come to being a problem for other players.
I have all characters besides a tr and gwf nearly maxed (so i cant speak to the effectiveness of lifesteal on those two classes directly), but i can say none of my characters are worried about getting killed by a gwf; however, i know those gwf are worried about getting killed by other classes, so if they think stacking lifesteal to an 'out of control' amount is a good way to live longer (it's not when fighting competent players) then let them. And balancing anything around/within the tr class just seems like an inside joke at this point. "Yeah, we're are rrrreeaaaalllly going to re-balance the tr next mod guys" -devs
And faithful dc does nothing besides healing you say? Ok, thanks for clearing that up, bud. He says gift of faith is fine boys, move on.
The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking.
I don't understand how that could be the biggest hurdle. If it's a consensus out of control, then just put a cap on the percentage where it wouldn't be out of control. Recovery is a problem, namely on trs with 100% deflect and cc immunity via an encounter power on almost no cooldown + an aoe cc encounter power with no downtime. But lifesteal? The healing derpression in pvp makes lifesteal pretty pathetic, and with the new 25% deflection enchant, i dont see any reason not to stack deflect to the sky. Deflection, and severity of trs deflections, are much more out of control than lifesteal. If we are talking about out of control healing, then look no further than gift of faith with no cooldown, and heals for more than an entire players healthbar.
Life steal and stat stacking is absolutely a problem. You get unkillable GWFs and TRs when they stack high enough lifesteal, as they also dish out a truckload of damage and heal up fully while killing the enemy.
The faithful DC can't kill any enemies or clear nodes, and does nothing besides healing.
Your comparison is laughable.
Appreciate the response. Your comment is laughable. And if the above scenario is true in all cases, and it's a problem, then they should remove lifesteal from pvp as its too effective at doing what the stat should do. clearly. lol.
I think you could benefit from testing lifesteal out on someone who actually has gear and is hitting back so you get the healing depression debuff on you, not on a training dummy 5k pug where every hit may do 50-200k, and they likely aren't even able to hit back to give you the debuff. Bottom line is stacking lifesteal is sacrificing stacking much better defensive stats like hp and deflection, or even possibly defense. And as long as solo q is the only game to q for, gwf should be near the bottom of the concerns pile when it come to being a problem for other players.
I have all characters besides a tr and gwf nearly maxed (so i cant speak to the effectiveness of lifesteal on those two classes directly), but i can say none of my characters are worried about getting killed by a gwf; however, i know those gwf are worried about getting killed by other classes, so if they think stacking lifesteal to an 'out of control' amount is a good way to live longer (it's not when fighting competent players) then let them. And balancing anything around/within the tr class just seems like an inside joke at this point. "Yeah, we're are rrrreeaaaalllly going to re-balance the tr next mod guys" -devs
And faithful dc does nothing besides healing you say? Ok, thanks for clearing that up, bud. He says gift of faith is fine boys, move on.
So I guess we're LOL'ing at each other. Good one.
I don't know which platform you play on, but on PC, there are GWFs that can one-rotate my faithful DC, and you say nerf the DC some more ... riiiight. In the top 100 players, there are 5 DCs, and there are 30 TRs, and then you say the most problematic form of healing is gift of faith from the DCs? Umm ... so you want to nerf an already under-represented class further? Does that make any sense to you?
The "lifesteal depression" also affects "healing depression". Healing has already been nerfed a number of times. I dunno what you have against the DC class, but it seems out of whack with what else is going on in PvP right now. Calling for nerfs for the DC, when you have major imbalances with the TR and other over-represented classes in PvP is just strange. That's why I LOL'd.
We've talked about adding more maps to PvP and we'd love to do it. However, we recognize there have been issues with PvP balance and we have decided to put our PvP focus on that problem, first. We've been working toward that goal over the last couple of expansions by hitting some of the largest problems faced in PvP and there are more changes in the pipeline that will come in M15.
The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking.
What kinds of new things would you most be interested in seeing? Personally, I'd like to see a 3v3 deathmatch option and a PvP boons rework.
Hey there Scarabman (nice name) and thank you for taking the time to actually come and say something on the PvP Forum, kudos my man.
Neverwinter is by far the best combat experience on X1 and other platforms too, but with each passing Mod it gets further and further away from how good it can actually be. I have actually completely dropped PvP due to the last couple of Mods bringing items etc that just completely ruin any kinf of fun you can have.
I mean nobody in their right mind goes into PvP thinking ok I am going to spend half my game stunned and watching myself slowly die... if I attack I have a very good chance of just being instakilled. That is prety much the current state of play at the moment, you can jump into a PvP game on the X1 and just try it... Also I suggest not saying anything in chat that people are "glitch cheating" as you will just get called all sorts of things.
Anyhoo the MAIN things that really destroy PvP at the moment are : 1. broken items that multiproc and instakill you. 2. Items/Powers/Procs etc that have any kind of stun/daze on them at all, really only class that should be able to Control you is a CW. 3. Un-killable classes with rediculas damage to go with it 4. So much healing from everywhere and too high damage being done, there should be more tactics involved. DC and Pally should be the only sources of decent healing. Everyone else should have minimal healing abilities at best. 5. Maps... seriously 2 maps since the start is beyond a joke now. There are literally hundreds of maps in the game most of which are hardly used. It shouldnt be too difficult to take a few maps, stick some Dom flags in there and let us just play and worry about bugs/glitches as they pop up... we would rather have a bunch of glitchy maps than none!
Edit... oh and a request, is there no way to get ACT onto the console at all. Like somehow it pops up at the end of a dungeon run etc... I really want to know how much damage certain things actually do in the long run etc. I know for a fact it would keep a lot of players playing so much longer. I know whole groups of people who would just play and play to test things out, including myself.
Post edited by wdj40 on
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
We've talked about adding more maps to PvP and we'd love to do it. However, we recognize there have been issues with PvP balance and we have decided to put our PvP focus on that problem, first. We've been working toward that goal over the last couple of expansions by hitting some of the largest problems faced in PvP and there are more changes in the pipeline that will come in M15.
The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking.
What kinds of new things would you most be interested in seeing? Personally, I'd like to see a 3v3 deathmatch option and a PvP boons rework.
i'd like to see a version that is completely stripped down. basically level 30 for all. no enchants no nuffin. it's the only way that it seems like could ever be actually balanced. otherwise I'd like to just see no more pvp in this game. almost no one plays it.. so why waste the effort on it. the attitudes you get in iwd when you're trying to level a toon are off the rails. you get these groups of bullies basically hanging out in the school yard. lol. waste of resources imo.
@vordayn what are the stats of your pvp dc and who was the gwf? Getting your toon 1 rotated sounds unlikely, you'd need to be debuffed and or cc'ed and/or maybe that gwf was buffed to the moon by teammate(s)
I believe @icexnine 's point is (and I agree with him) that a faithful dc can make half decent geared players + nigh unkillable and besides healing like that, they are a formidable force multiplier which can leqve the other team helpless more often than not, especially if they lack a faithful dc. I that healing was all a faithful dc could would be semi-acceptable but the massive damage boost is far too much of an advantage.
Having a faithful dc in the team is comparable to having former 20 seconds bubble paladin: the team that lacks one is dead meat gg more often than not, there's less survability than with 20 secs bubble paladin in exchange for a lot more damage.
I think your main target concidering PVP should be centered completely arround the fun factor, keeping out any kind of financial aspect if possible. PVP at it´s current state is a small number most player would not even waste one second to think about. No player these days would spend bigger ammounts of money in this part of the game... I hope so.
Atm there are too many variables, impossible to cover by your dev-team and it´s getting more every mod. Since there is no way to cover all those issues caused by broken gear, boons, overperforming mounts, Insigniaboni, statinflation/SH boons, Glyphs etc. you really should think about a clean cut and cancel all those unnecessary stuff. I know a lot of player invested a lot of time and AD in their builds, but that´s completely vasted if they are honest for a second and face the truth : " There is no PVP and no community any more, there is no competition on a healthy level, nada" Even enchants should be discussed imho, since it´s a big annoyance to shuffle all your enchants for and back to get a PVP focussed setup or simply stick with your PVE build, since you only go here once a week if at all.
It´s ll about time. Do I invest into a PVP and a seperate PVE stuffed loadout ? No I never will do so atm, it takes me hours to swap enchnat for and back for a negative experience, a "fun-killing-scrub-party", since PVP is dead .... but could be revived by downgearing and balancing in a second step with ease. Armor-/Weaponset, Armor-/Weaponenchants, some PVP boons (account wide), maybe some smaller boni from armor enhancements, buffood, a new map, new PVP event, deathmatch 1 vs 1 / 3 vs 3, fix leaderboards , done. You can switch to PVP whenever, wherever you want and with any class you like to, everyone can jump on a fotm class and don´t have to level/gear that toon 2-3 years. In case PVP looks like 5 TR vs 5 GF all day it is on you to balance stuff without taking 1 million variables into account. A daily should be a daily and not spammable every 3 seconds, put a CD on dailies in PVP, once every 30 seconds is far enough, deal with it. No chance to abuse classfeats and others to focus on AP gain and spam dailies, basta.
@vordayn what are the stats of your pvp dc and who was the gwf? Getting your toon 1 rotated sounds unlikely, you'd need to be debuffed and or cc'ed and/or maybe that gwf was buffed to the moon by teammate(s)
I believe @icexnine 's point is (and I agree with him) that a faithful dc can make half decent geared players + nigh unkillable and besides healing like that, they are a formidable force multiplier which can leqve the other team helpless more often than not, especially if they lack a faithful dc. I that healing was all a faithful dc could would be semi-acceptable but the massive damage boost is far too much of an advantage.
Having a faithful dc in the team is comparable to having former 20 seconds bubble paladin: the team that lacks one is dead meat gg more often than not, there's less survability than with 20 secs bubble paladin in exchange for a lot more damage.
That build create massive balance issues.
You play on console?
I'm on PC, even if I were to tell you, I doubt you'd know them.
Healing was already nerfed again these past few mods, and astral shield was nerfed. If you take away the Faithful DC capstone, then they have nothing left.
And no, if a team lacks a faithful DC, they are not dead. Believe me, I don't only play a DC in PvP, but when I do, and I'm the only DC, I don't win all the matches. And I've been up against a team with the only Faithful DC, and no, they don't win all matches.
If you are talking about healing, then a Devo OP has large healing output as well, and can tank better than any DC, with a Tab function with better control resist than any DC.
A good TR will win the match for you. I can't believe you are even considering taking away something which can help survive against TRs, when TRs are wiping the floor clean with any and every class, and usually multiple classes at once vs that 1 TR.
Yes I am but I have seen some of the big names of pc pvp on quite a few youtube videos, at least a while ago.
Healing nerf is largely pointless if 1 player still can make his teammates night unkillable + being able to increase their damage by huge amount, that leaves the other team at a significant disadvantage (note that these examples asume players actually are good)
Non massive burst classes are rendered ineffective vs gift of faith'ed rivals to the point of being completely unable to kill, that's terrible.
Dc buffs far more than devo paladin and still is a healing machine.
Pvp TR is unbelievably overpowered indeed (and needs addressing for sure) but, in the sense of party utility, so is Gift of Faith, it is just way too good considering how good dc is at buffing.
I never claimed a faithful dc would win every single match for the team by the way, it is undeniable it grants a very significant advantage though.
Out of everything here (though there are some good points) I think the main thing that needs done is the complete removal of an item from the game if it is broken.
Example, mane of manticore was not a BiS item for pve. It however, was bis in pvp because it is broken (hugely exploitable). Removing it from the game after the complaints (and posted video proof) would probably have been the best move. I think going forward, if item "x" is only used in PvP and is broken, just remove it. The only ones who will care are the ones using broken items.
Having to wait 3-6 months for a fix to something so game breaking literally leads people to stop playing for a while.
Yes I am but I have seen some of the big names of pc pvp on quite a few youtube videos, at least a while ago.
Healing nerf is largely pointless if 1 player still can make his teammates night unkillable + being able to increase their damage by huge amount, that leaves the other team at a significant disadvantage (note that these examples asume players actually are good)
Non massive burst classes are rendered ineffective vs gift of faith'ed rivals to the point of being completely unable to kill, that's terrible.
Dc buffs far more than devo paladin and still is a healing machine.
Pvp TR is unbelievably overpowered indeed (and needs addressing for sure) but, in the sense of party utility, so is Gift of Faith, it is just way too good considering how good dc is at buffing.
I never claimed a faithful dc would win every single match for the team by the way, it is undeniable it grants a very significant advantage though.
I don't know if you play a DC, but when I go full healing, I go full healing and make a conscious choice to use healing encounters vs buffs/debuffs. The faithful DC does not have righteous buffs or debuffs, nor does it powershare like the virtuous or righteous DCs, it doesn't have any offensive output. It prioritises recovery, defense, HP and deflect, and has next to no armor penetration, low critical chance. It doesn't buff using AA because even minor hits of 1 HP damage will remove a stack of AA. It channels everything into healing, healing output and defense.
A very significant advantage is granted by a lot of classes, the Devo OP, even the Protection OP, the unkillable one-shot or one-rotating TR, the unkillable SW because of self-healing, deflect, shadowslip and exceptional movement speed.
If you remove the capstone of gift of faith, or nerf it, then you've just got to look at everything else which other classes use to win:
1) Reduce the duration that a GF can block with shield, or let it be reduced with incoming attacks so that they cannot hide behind their second layer of mitigation forever. 2) Reduce the stealth duration from TRs, or allow them to be CC or interrupted when blood bathing. Put a timer on dailies like blood bath and limit impossible to catch. 3) Limit the amount of self healing from Soulbinder SWs, and reduce the speed of their shadowslip, reduce the duration of Grasp of Hadar. 4) Remove the Shield on Mastery of the CW, and the amount of damage it mitigates. 5) Reduce the control of HR roots, and reduce the amount of damage that aimed shot does, reduce the 30% critical chance when they are far away. 6) Reduce the self healing of Devo OPs, and the ability of Prot OPs to keep up their shield forever. 7) Reduce the speed of GWFs Sprint, especially when using their class feature.
What is clear is that before you touch a class, you've got to balance everything else which is overpowered.
And with healing, remove the healing granted when you deflect e.g. boons and insignias. Reduce the healing from the other classes as well - SW (self-healing soulbinder or templock build), OP Devo, GF daily, lifesteal from hard hitting classes like the GWF/HR/TR/SW/CW, wheel of elements. Just remove healing altogether! Like WTF. If you remove healing from a class which heals, why should every other player then retain all the other healing sources currently in the game?
And I still do not see the logic behind nerfing a class which is only representative of 5% of the top 100, when there is a class which is representing 30% of the top 100.
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
God I'm tired of all this bickering... it all began when one class got nerfed due to complaints on forums. Then everyone wanted to.nerfed everyone else. Does it ever end? Some of you are hell bent on continuing this nerfed war until you feel vindicated for your own classes past nerfs. Stop please... just accept this is how the game works and is and play.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
1) Reduce the duration that a GF can block with shield, or let it be reduced with incoming attacks so that they cannot hide behind their second layer of mitigation forever.
Our shield has already been trough several nerfs. It used to be only drained when attacked, block 100% of the incoming damage and last much longer. Please don't nerf our tankiness anymore, we're a tank class after all, and the weaker one at that.
Also you complained about every classes stamina but forgot DCs who can just dash>dash>dash>push>dash>dash>dash and repeat ad infinitum.
My shield only lasts 8 seconds from completely filled to empty and takes 16 seconds to go back up to full with gladiators guile. The issue of "infinite stamina" isn't the unique to GF, it's due to certain stamina boons that affect all classes and allow them to dodge/dash/teleport forever. If shield gets nerfed anymore it will be pretty much impossible for low geared GFs to tank PvE content, it is already an order of magnitude more difficult than doing so with an OP.
My shield only lasts 8 seconds from completely filled to empty and takes 16 seconds to go back up to full with gladiators guile. The issue of "infinite stamina" isn't the unique to GF, it's due to certain stamina boons that affect all classes and allow them to dodge/dash/teleport forever. If shield gets nerfed anymore it will be pretty much impossible for low geared GFs to tank PvE content, it is already an order of magnitude more difficult than doing so with an OP.
Cryptic should disable all those boons honestly and balance classes on what is left, otherwise this is a never ending story no dev could ever handle. Drains, boons, broken gear, mounts, insignia boni, powercreep ->not needed in PVP... no that´s what killed PVP during the last years. Dailies need to be capped in PVP , so AP gain is not from bigger interest any more -it´s called a Daily! - not a perma-active power you should spam every 3 seconds.
Comments
> We've talked about adding more maps to PvP and we'd love to do it. However, we recognize there have been issues with PvP balance and we have decided to put our PvP focus on that problem, first. We've been working toward that goal over the last couple of expansions by hitting some of the largest problems faced in PvP and there are more changes in the pipeline that will come in M15.
>
> The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking.
>
> What kinds of new things would you most be interested in seeing? Personally, I'd like to see a 3v3 deathmatch option and a PvP boons rework.
Lifesteal is not an issue anymore due to the lifesteal nerf that took place. Wheel of elements is more of an issue than lifesteal.
It heals much more than those with super lifesteal.
Recovery can be fixed just by giving all daily powers a fixed cool down not based on recovery.
I would personally love to see mounts with combat powers much like the skeleton knight in barovia. Along with this new mount weapons that we can aquire to use on our beasts.
E.g. encounter powers will all be based on type of mount we have.
At will powers will be based on the Mount weapon we aquire.
It could work well...
Perhaps mythic mounts could be like this?
Also instead of being knocked off the mount based on the damage done or so many hits, give the mounted player a second hit points bar that when depleted the player is knocked off the mount. If you're knocked off a mount the penalty should be prone for 2 to 3 seconds.
Mount weapons example
Joust/Lance
At will 1 = thrust
Knocks the enemy back 20m and prones for 2 seconds
At will 2 = impale
Stabs the enemy and lifting them into the air (if the enemy is killed in this fashion let the body stay on the joust and until player respawns).
Also, it would be nice to be able to play with friends again on the same team (3v3 deathmatch would be good).
Ever since the release of solo q, regular q has been dead, unless you want to wait 30 mins (being generous here) to instantly campfire 5k iL scrubs, who probably don't even realise that there's a solo q.
Barebones mode where its simply stats from gear. No bonuses from any sources.
Singles ladder mode
A fix to the que synching issue.
Is it possible to integrate a auto kick function like Call of DUty has for those that like to just camp out at the campfire?
If you can only select/work on one issue I'd say that bare bones mode or just outright disable pve gear bonuses in pvp would be a very good first step.
Overall im on console. We havent gotten mod 14 yet, but im hearing good things pvp wise outside of cowl. That doesnt seem to be a huge issue from what ive seen though since its not at the level of the mane multi proc
The faithful DC can't kill any enemies or clear nodes, and does nothing besides healing.
Your comparison is laughable.
> The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking.
>
> I don't understand how that could be the biggest hurdle. If it's a consensus out of control, then just put a cap on the percentage where it wouldn't be out of control. Recovery is a problem, namely on trs with 100% deflect and cc immunity via an encounter power on almost no cooldown + an aoe cc encounter power with no downtime. But lifesteal? The healing derpression in pvp makes lifesteal pretty pathetic, and with the new 25% deflection enchant, i dont see any reason not to stack deflect to the sky. Deflection, and severity of trs deflections, are much more out of control than lifesteal. If we are talking about out of control healing, then look no further than gift of faith with no cooldown, and heals for more than an entire players healthbar.
>
>
> Life steal and stat stacking is absolutely a problem. You get unkillable GWFs and TRs when they stack high enough lifesteal, as they also dish out a truckload of damage and heal up fully while killing the enemy.
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> The faithful DC can't kill any enemies or clear nodes, and does nothing besides healing.
>
> Your comparison is laughable.
I tried to tell them this in mod 6....
It's not so.bad now with lifesteal nerf
Tr that heal up now have mount bonus heals and boons that heal them on deflection plus super deflection. It's not lifesteal.. oh yeah and wheel of elements...
i beileivethat PVP should be big part of any game because PVE can only provide so much contentt while PVP dosn't need to be provided with huge content update other than maps and few things to keep it active and it's the go to when players have reached the goal of a current expansion end game
so it should be given a lot of importance
Majority of the players don't care about one or the other, so forcing it onto them won't make them suddenly like it.
I think you could benefit from testing lifesteal out on someone who actually has gear and is hitting back so you get the healing depression debuff on you, not on a training dummy 5k pug where every hit may do 50-200k, and they likely aren't even able to hit back to give you the debuff. Bottom line is stacking lifesteal is sacrificing stacking much better defensive stats like hp and deflection, or even possibly defense. And as long as solo q is the only game to q for, gwf should be near the bottom of the concerns pile when it come to being a problem for other players.
I have all characters besides a tr and gwf nearly maxed (so i cant speak to the effectiveness of lifesteal on those two classes directly), but i can say none of my characters are worried about getting killed by a gwf; however, i know those gwf are worried about getting killed by other classes, so if they think stacking lifesteal to an 'out of control' amount is a good way to live longer (it's not when fighting competent players) then let them. And balancing anything around/within the tr class just seems like an inside joke at this point.
"Yeah, we're are rrrreeaaaalllly going to re-balance the tr next mod guys" -devs
And faithful dc does nothing besides healing you say? Ok, thanks for clearing that up, bud. He says gift of faith is fine boys, move on.
Yet no 1 saying anything about non-tr classes how good they perform in pve.
Mod removed a lot of extra space.
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I don't know which platform you play on, but on PC, there are GWFs that can one-rotate my faithful DC, and you say nerf the DC some more ... riiiight. In the top 100 players, there are 5 DCs, and there are 30 TRs, and then you say the most problematic form of healing is gift of faith from the DCs? Umm ... so you want to nerf an already under-represented class further? Does that make any sense to you?
The "lifesteal depression" also affects "healing depression". Healing has already been nerfed a number of times. I dunno what you have against the DC class, but it seems out of whack with what else is going on in PvP right now. Calling for nerfs for the DC, when you have major imbalances with the TR and other over-represented classes in PvP is just strange. That's why I LOL'd.
Neverwinter is by far the best combat experience on X1 and other platforms too, but with each passing Mod it gets further and further away from how good it can actually be. I have actually completely dropped PvP due to the last couple of Mods bringing items etc that just completely ruin any kinf of fun you can have.
I mean nobody in their right mind goes into PvP thinking ok I am going to spend half my game stunned and watching myself slowly die... if I attack I have a very good chance of just being instakilled. That is prety much the current state of play at the moment, you can jump into a PvP game on the X1 and just try it... Also I suggest not saying anything in chat that people are "glitch cheating" as you will just get called all sorts of things.
Anyhoo the MAIN things that really destroy PvP at the moment are :
1. broken items that multiproc and instakill you.
2. Items/Powers/Procs etc that have any kind of stun/daze on them at all, really only class that should be able to Control you is a CW.
3. Un-killable classes with rediculas damage to go with it
4. So much healing from everywhere and too high damage being done, there should be more tactics involved. DC and Pally should be the only sources of decent healing. Everyone else should have minimal healing abilities at best.
5. Maps... seriously 2 maps since the start is beyond a joke now. There are literally hundreds of maps in the game most of which are hardly used. It shouldnt be too difficult to take a few maps, stick some Dom flags in there and let us just play and worry about bugs/glitches as they pop up... we would rather have a bunch of glitchy maps than none!
Edit... oh and a request, is there no way to get ACT onto the console at all. Like somehow it pops up at the end of a dungeon run etc... I really want to know how much damage certain things actually do in the long run etc. I know for a fact it would keep a lot of players playing so much longer. I know whole groups of people who would just play and play to test things out, including myself.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
I believe PVP needs and deserve attention as none are more special than the other but PVE has definitley had more focus for a longtime.
Yes some classes need some work and that is a given.
My request still stands.
I believe @icexnine 's point is (and I agree with him) that a faithful dc can make half decent geared players + nigh unkillable and besides healing like that, they are a formidable force multiplier which can leqve the other team helpless more often than not, especially if they lack a faithful dc. I that healing was all a faithful dc could would be semi-acceptable but the massive damage boost is far too much of an advantage.
Having a faithful dc in the team is comparable to having former 20 seconds bubble paladin: the team that lacks one is dead meat gg more often than not, there's less survability than with 20 secs bubble paladin in exchange for a lot more damage.
That build create massive balance issues.
PVP at it´s current state is a small number most player would not even waste one second to think about.
No player these days would spend bigger ammounts of money in this part of the game... I hope so.
Atm there are too many variables, impossible to cover by your dev-team and it´s getting more every mod.
Since there is no way to cover all those issues caused by broken gear, boons, overperforming mounts, Insigniaboni, statinflation/SH boons, Glyphs etc. you really should think about a clean cut and cancel all those unnecessary stuff.
I know a lot of player invested a lot of time and AD in their builds, but that´s completely vasted if they are honest for a second and face the truth :
" There is no PVP and no community any more, there is no competition on a healthy level, nada"
Even enchants should be discussed imho, since it´s a big annoyance to shuffle all your enchants for and back to get a PVP focussed setup or simply stick with your PVE build, since you only go here once a week if at all.
It´s ll about time. Do I invest into a PVP and a seperate PVE stuffed loadout ? No I never will do so atm, it takes me hours to swap enchnat for and back for a negative experience, a "fun-killing-scrub-party", since PVP is dead .... but could be revived by downgearing and balancing in a second step with ease.
Armor-/Weaponset, Armor-/Weaponenchants, some PVP boons (account wide), maybe some smaller boni from armor enhancements, buffood, a new map, new PVP event, deathmatch 1 vs 1 / 3 vs 3, fix leaderboards , done.
You can switch to PVP whenever, wherever you want and with any class you like to, everyone can jump on a fotm class and don´t have to level/gear that toon 2-3 years. In case PVP looks like 5 TR vs 5 GF all day it is on you to balance stuff without taking 1 million variables into account.
A daily should be a daily and not spammable every 3 seconds, put a CD on dailies in PVP, once every 30 seconds is far enough, deal with it.
No chance to abuse classfeats and others to focus on AP gain and spam dailies, basta.
I'm on PC, even if I were to tell you, I doubt you'd know them.
Healing was already nerfed again these past few mods, and astral shield was nerfed. If you take away the Faithful DC capstone, then they have nothing left.
And no, if a team lacks a faithful DC, they are not dead. Believe me, I don't only play a DC in PvP, but when I do, and I'm the only DC, I don't win all the matches. And I've been up against a team with the only Faithful DC, and no, they don't win all matches.
If you are talking about healing, then a Devo OP has large healing output as well, and can tank better than any DC, with a Tab function with better control resist than any DC.
A good TR will win the match for you. I can't believe you are even considering taking away something which can help survive against TRs, when TRs are wiping the floor clean with any and every class, and usually multiple classes at once vs that 1 TR.
*facepalm*
Yes I am but I have seen some of the big names of pc pvp on quite a few youtube videos, at least a while ago.
Healing nerf is largely pointless if 1 player still can make his teammates night unkillable + being able to increase their damage by huge amount, that leaves the other team at a significant disadvantage (note that these examples asume players actually are good)
Non massive burst classes are rendered ineffective vs gift of faith'ed rivals to the point of being completely unable to kill, that's terrible.
Dc buffs far more than devo paladin and still is a healing machine.
Pvp TR is unbelievably overpowered indeed (and needs addressing for sure) but, in the sense of party utility, so is Gift of Faith, it is just way too good considering how good dc is at buffing.
I never claimed a faithful dc would win every single match for the team by the way, it is undeniable it grants a very significant advantage though.
Example, mane of manticore was not a BiS item for pve. It however, was bis in pvp because it is broken (hugely exploitable). Removing it from the game after the complaints (and posted video proof) would probably have been the best move. I think going forward, if item "x" is only used in PvP and is broken, just remove it. The only ones who will care are the ones using broken items.
Having to wait 3-6 months for a fix to something so game breaking literally leads people to stop playing for a while.
You guys have a policy against exploits right...?
A very significant advantage is granted by a lot of classes, the Devo OP, even the Protection OP, the unkillable one-shot or one-rotating TR, the unkillable SW because of self-healing, deflect, shadowslip and exceptional movement speed.
If you remove the capstone of gift of faith, or nerf it, then you've just got to look at everything else which other classes use to win:
1) Reduce the duration that a GF can block with shield, or let it be reduced with incoming attacks so that they cannot hide behind their second layer of mitigation forever.
2) Reduce the stealth duration from TRs, or allow them to be CC or interrupted when blood bathing. Put a timer on dailies like blood bath and limit impossible to catch.
3) Limit the amount of self healing from Soulbinder SWs, and reduce the speed of their shadowslip, reduce the duration of Grasp of Hadar.
4) Remove the Shield on Mastery of the CW, and the amount of damage it mitigates.
5) Reduce the control of HR roots, and reduce the amount of damage that aimed shot does, reduce the 30% critical chance when they are far away.
6) Reduce the self healing of Devo OPs, and the ability of Prot OPs to keep up their shield forever.
7) Reduce the speed of GWFs Sprint, especially when using their class feature.
What is clear is that before you touch a class, you've got to balance everything else which is overpowered.
And with healing, remove the healing granted when you deflect e.g. boons and insignias. Reduce the healing from the other classes as well - SW (self-healing soulbinder or templock build), OP Devo, GF daily, lifesteal from hard hitting classes like the GWF/HR/TR/SW/CW, wheel of elements. Just remove healing altogether! Like WTF. If you remove healing from a class which heals, why should every other player then retain all the other healing sources currently in the game?
And I still do not see the logic behind nerfing a class which is only representative of 5% of the top 100, when there is a class which is representing 30% of the top 100.
That just doesn't make sense.
Stop please... just accept this is how the game works and is and play.
Also you complained about every classes stamina but forgot DCs who can just dash>dash>dash>push>dash>dash>dash and repeat ad infinitum.
If shield gets nerfed anymore it will be pretty much impossible for low geared GFs to tank PvE content, it is already an order of magnitude more difficult than doing so with an OP.
Drains, boons, broken gear, mounts, insignia boni, powercreep ->not needed in PVP... no that´s what killed PVP during the last years.
Dailies need to be capped in PVP , so AP gain is not from bigger interest any more -it´s called a Daily! - not a perma-active power you should spam every 3 seconds.