greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
Then don't spend all your time hunting.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I love how people argue that this benefits casual players, but fail to recognize that a 100k rAD Limit that doesn’t carry forward or roll over, completely screws casual players. How does this benefit a person who can, and does, play only 8 hours a week, only on Sunday? That’s casual. Or a person who only plays 3 hours a day, on Tue, Wed, Sat? Casuals often do not play every day, but play decent amounts 1-3 times a week. Because it is a daily limit, this means they can earn only 100-300k per week, or about 400-1.2 million per month. Nice to say this is for the casuals, somehow, but not admit that casuals are pretty screwed by it.
but fail to recognize that a 100k rAD Limit that doesn’t carry forward or roll over
What? You do realize that whatever you can't refine today, you can refine tomorrow, and the next and so forth. Didn't you see the posts of people who said they racked up 700K in one or two days playing. They don't need to play for the next few days. They only need to log in daily to refine the 100K for the rest of the week.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,218Arc User
I love how people argue that this benefits casual players, but fail to recognize that a 100k rAD Limit that doesn’t carry forward or roll over, completely screws casual players. How does this benefit a person who can, and does, play only 8 hours a week, only on Sunday? That’s casual. Or a person who only plays 3 hours a day, on Tue, Wed, Sat? Casuals often do not play every day, but play decent amounts 1-3 times a week. Because it is a daily limit, this means they can earn only 100-300k per week, or about 400-1.2 million per month. Nice to say this is for the casuals, somehow, but not admit that casuals are pretty screwed by it.
What do you mean by not carry forward or roll over? Do you mean they cannot log in the character and exit once per day? If the person cannot spend (say) 3 minutes on the "not playing" day, yes, they are screwed by it.
But, casual player wouldn't have N alts to spread the salvage before mod 14. They probably have 1 or 2 characters. In that case, they had 36K or 72K refinement cap before. Now, they have 100K.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Yes, some people have schedules, and agreements, etc, to spend only certain days doing anything with games, and the others with family/friends, etc. In my experience, that is the vast majority of adults over 30. Yes, some can log in, do whatever they want, etc, but, most people don't even touch their games on those days, and have specific days set up as 'gaming days'. This is why they are casual, and the rest are not. Those people also make up the majority of an MMO's populace. Yes, we have the ones we all know, and see, every day online, but that's not the largest chunk, those are the 20% or so of the millions that play. So, yeah, the casuals get screwed. They aren't logging in every single day, NW is not a major part of their life, it is purely a game. That does not mean they don't have a wish to actually progress, though.
The point is, that those with time and motivation should be able to progress as fast as their motivation/time allows. And that time should not be judged based on a daily basis. If there are people who can play 10-12 hours on each day on the weekend, but cannot log in for the other 5 days, they should have the same benefits as anyone else that logs in 20-24 hours a week. It's fairly HAMSTER to assume that every person playing your game can log in for even a single minute every single day. When that assumption is made, you are laying claim to their life and making a hook into their daily life, it is no longer a voluntary hobby, it is more of a daily requirement. I feel much the same way about VIP Keys, too.
And, yes, it can be really annoying on some of the busy days that even I have to log in just to get a favor of sune and do basic maintenance and grab a key. Work a long day, play with kids with last few moments I have that I'm not sleeping... but, most days, I'm good. And, I have a fairly blah life. I know people that sometimes work 16+ hours a day and have families. They barely get to sleep on work days, so, really, you're saying they should be worried about logging in every day, and if they don't then, guess they don't matter or something, even though they play a ton on their off days? Come on, guys, understanding, sympathy, etc... all types play, and just because they don't log into an MMO every day does not mean they can't be hardcore. Casuals are even worse a lot of times... So, no, it's dumb to start making parts of the game completely against the typical lifestyles, and only cater to elites. It's even worse to go against both elites AND the others, which is what this does.
The only lucky part of this, is that most players won't ever care, because they spend their time dancing on tables, trying to explore, and taking weeks to get from 1-30, let alone further. This hurts the casuals that have ambition, and the hardcores who have busy lives. It really plays well to people who have hours every day and money to spend.
@nunya If you ran 8 characters through RQ and only got ~100k R/AD something is wrong no? I was getting ~25k from 2 queues per character x 8 = ~200k per day x 7 = ~1.4mil per WEEK from queues. If I went to previous cap that is 288k p/w and ~2mil p/week. You only ran 1 queue per character?
Its not unreasonable to say having more then 2 characters (Which are Free anyways) is not uncommon for a game of this nature or age. The basic F2P model of this game is not one of which relies on a one sided transaction but for mutual benefit for both parties which ultimately benefits the company. Its is not new, it is not unique and has existed for a long time in other games too. You say its nice that people sell c.wards? Imo no its not its just what we have though. Its nice for the company. Those who have no time to play the game can "rely" on others to sell their AD. Was C.wards always on/intended to be on the Zen store only? I am returning player so idk but that is a major progression feature they worked into their monetisation.
The fact is..... if no one spent money on this game there wouldn't be any opportunities for any players without the fundamental F2P business model this game has being destroyed.
If you had 8 characters through RQ you would know that is petty AD for what the Devs were targeting but anyone with over 2 Free characters is now affected by this change. If you got a character past 9k iL and are trying to progress it to end game to play with others and experience new Mods etc you will know the iL wall and what it takes to get past it.
I joined a lovely guild with brilliant people and spent millions of AD (from the queues over months and a lot of time) on upgrades to only get to 14k iL on ONE character. Outside of nice friends/guilds this is generally deemed near or just acceptable iL for end game without being carried. With these changes I have basically halted progress on my alts cos theyr not getting any where near that even if got all campaign boons they need serious AD investment.
I understand the OP is making 700k+ salvage in 2 days lol and is one of the rare players Devs were probably trying to target with the changes but it has affected more then those, a lot more. Anyone with experience or who can see past their own nose would be able to tell.
That is correct: I ran one queue per character per day. That's what I had time for. I think even if I'd had time for more, I would have preferred epic dungeons to more queues. They weren't fun and I am already sick of running Throne of the Dwarven Gods and Prophecy of Madness, which tells me I wouldn't have enjoyed the skirmish queue for very long.
I said it was nice that shadoewrayth was able to generate enough rough astral diamonds every month to play entirely for free by relying on other people spending their money on the game instead of him/her spending his/her money on the game. For the time I've been playing, coalescent wards have been Zen store only. From what I have read, they were in the Wondrous Bazaar for a while, then removed from there and placed in the Tarmalune Trade Bar store, and finally removed from there, too. I don't know the reasoning behind this and I don't really care. Cryptic can do whatever it wants for whatever reason it chooses. I'm not going to subscribe to conspiracy theories. I'll give my feedback about proposed changes and then either live with them or stop spending money on the game (though if I stop spending money on this as entertainment, then I've probably stopped playing).
I have a 13.4k IL warlock, a 12.4k paladin, and a 12.4k ranger. I also have a 10k cleric and several other <9k characters (one for each class). I've raised the warlock and paladin by about 2k item level each just since the start of June. Progress has slowed again, but that's pretty normal for me; it'll creep up for a couple of months and then there'll be a burst of refining. My progress will probably be slow until November this time because I want to use my astral diamonds to help level my guild. In fact, I'm going to be spending money on the game between now and then for this explicit purpose.
Honestly, the people who were generating 2+ million new astral diamonds per day are the reason why the economy is the way it is in this game. I mean, think about it: 2 million per day is <b class="Bold">60 million per month! Can I understand why they would be upset about going from 60+ million per month to 3 million per month? Yes, absolutely. Would I be upset? Yes, absolutely. Would I quit playing over it? No, I would not - and so I don't care that they're upset. I have a bit of empathy for people like you who were grinding the random queues so hard. At the same time, I think the developers did you a favor because I know of no one who enjoyed grinding the random queues even as hard as I did - to say nothing about how hard you were. My wife and I are having a lot more fun running epic dungeons than we were in random queues before. Random queues were and still are a chore, but it's a chore we still engage in to generate some dungeoneer's shards for the guild. If there were a different way to get those as reliably, we would do that. (I am aware of the Maze Engine daily. It takes five days to generate a Gauntlgrym Bounty box and then you have to wait for a 2x shards event to get 20.)
I'm choosing to ignore the insult/personal attack in your final sentence...
It's fairly HAMSTER to assume that every person playing your game can log in for even a single minute every single day. When that assumption is made, you are laying claim to their life and making a hook into their daily life, it is no longer a voluntary hobby, it is more of a daily requirement. I feel much the same way about VIP Keys, too.
One are not "required" to do anything for the game. One can play the game how they want. Whining about having to take one minute once a day to log in is a bit absurd. Seems this is more about getting the VIP keys. If you want more keys now, you can buy packs of them. If you compare the price of VIP vs a pack of keys, you should see that they are not selling you keys in VIP, but the right to claim a key each day you log in.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,218Arc User
edited July 2018
For those who can match the schedule the game requires, they always will have advantage as expected, as simple as that. Many go for Christmas vacation and they will not be able to take full advantage for Winter festival. I am not saying they should skip their vacation.
e.g. The person who can do 6 invocations per day has an advantage over those who can only do 1 invocation per day and this group has an advantage over those who can do none.
My point is if whoever can match the game schedule, they will always have an edge. It is also not about how much time you spend on the game. It is more about when you spend time on the game.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Can't see past the end of (one's) nose: So preoccupied with oneself and one's situation as to be unaware or uncaring of other people or the bigger picture in life.
It was not meant as a personal attack. Regardless if you take it as one or not, that sentence is not directed at you and isn't written as such. It is as much what you done when you started writing about "people like you", lumping everyone into one general box since it started with... "Anyone". Yes you were tagged in the beginning but it drifts off in places and comes back in others so I can see the misunderstanding.
Conspiracy theories? ~200K a day for one character self improvement lumped in with people who are targeted to buy 100 mil AD companions or making mil++ AD per day as you say.
This was my main aim: Quickly answer op and then show other sides to what some players and Devs state intentions/effects are/will be and what also actually happened as a result of the changes. Treat it as conspiracy if you want but what I said in regards to that was factual.
Anyway enough on that topic from me, I done what I wanted and showed other sides to it here and in other threads. I am not trying to get it changed or want it changed lol. It was announced well ahead of implementation and gave players ample time to prepare and adjust for it anyways. So good day to you and I hope the devs allow you to make conscious decisions like an adult who can manage their own free time and finances whilst playing the game and enjoying it without limiting others (for their own good!) too much. Gl with the guild.
... to keep the appearance of F2P, while in reality the game has become P2P if you want to get to the end-game past 13k or so. Up til then, still F2P, though.
All F2P MMOs are like this (others I've tried are actually much harder). F2P has never meant non-profit or charity. In an extreme example, if AD became so easy to make that very few people spend, the game would cut back or shut down completely.
Ideally, MMOs should be subscription based, but very few games can actual compete using the subscription model.
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
it just look so stupid that some player cry when it comes to the 100k cap, this is a huge help on qol, and if they make a price reduction on wondorous bazaar store even better, also help reduce the pressure on the players going on a random queue for all his alts, talking from personal experience
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
Why would they reduce Bazaar prices? That's AD out of the system.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Why would they reduce Bazaar prices? That's AD out of the system.
one reason is because 90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar...
Even if they drop the price in WB, 90% of the time the AH price will still be cheaper because of VIP discount.
It does not really matter if AH price is below WB price as long as the item is single-sourced from WB. In that case someone just have bought it with diverse discounts so they can sell low. It still is a WB transaction that will send AD out of the system.
It is worse if there are alternate sources for items in the WB. In that case you get no WB purchase and the AD drain effect is lost beyond the standard AH 10% fee.
Gaining rad trough hunts is just way to much and way to easy. abit over 2 hours of hunting and u are done for the week.
But you don't have to salvage all of your items. You can sell it in the AH for straight AD and direct profit. For example; I get a ring worth 2000 salvage, I can post it for 2222 AD and some one will buy it for salvage + bonus AD and get 3000 AD yes they made 778 AD profit but you got 2000 clean AD and not added to your 100K cap. If the ring is a POS, then sell it for 1500 AD for a fast return, it is still a 100% profit for you!
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,218Arc User
Why would they reduce Bazaar prices? That's AD out of the system.
one reason is because 90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar...
Even if they drop the price in WB, 90% of the time the AH price will still be cheaper because of VIP discount.
It does not really matter if AH price is below WB price as long as the item is single-sourced from WB. In that case someone just have bought it with diverse discounts so they can sell low. It still is a WB transaction that will send AD out of the system.
It is worse if there are alternate sources for items in the WB. In that case you get no WB purchase and the AD drain effect is lost beyond the standard AH 10% fee.
"It does not really matter if AH price is below WB price" is exactly my point of my post because "AH price is below WB price" itself is NOT a REASON to drop WB price. There may be many reasons to drop WB price but that one is not.
My post is about I disagreed with the following statement: one reason is because 90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar.
I agree: "90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar." I disagree: that is a reason to drop WB price.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Why would they reduce Bazaar prices? That's AD out of the system.
one reason is because 90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar...
Even if they drop the price in WB, 90% of the time the AH price will still be cheaper because of VIP discount.
It does not really matter if AH price is below WB price as long as the item is single-sourced from WB. In that case someone just have bought it with diverse discounts so they can sell low. It still is a WB transaction that will send AD out of the system.
It is worse if there are alternate sources for items in the WB. In that case you get no WB purchase and the AD drain effect is lost beyond the standard AH 10% fee.
"It does not really matter if AH price is below WB price" is exactly my point of my post because "AH price is below WB price" itself is NOT a REASON to drop WB price. There may be many reasons to drop WB price but that one is not.
My post is about I disagreed with the following statement: one reason is because 90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar.
I agree: "90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar." I disagree: that is a reason to drop WB price.
Yes, and you said that the reason not to change the price was because it was an AD sink. Which almost no one uses... because the WB price is higher than the items can be bought on the AH. We do NOT need to sink AD's from newbies that haven't figured out how to search the AH yet...
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,218Arc User
Why would they reduce Bazaar prices? That's AD out of the system.
one reason is because 90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar...
Even if they drop the price in WB, 90% of the time the AH price will still be cheaper because of VIP discount.
It does not really matter if AH price is below WB price as long as the item is single-sourced from WB. In that case someone just have bought it with diverse discounts so they can sell low. It still is a WB transaction that will send AD out of the system.
It is worse if there are alternate sources for items in the WB. In that case you get no WB purchase and the AD drain effect is lost beyond the standard AH 10% fee.
"It does not really matter if AH price is below WB price" is exactly my point of my post because "AH price is below WB price" itself is NOT a REASON to drop WB price. There may be many reasons to drop WB price but that one is not.
My post is about I disagreed with the following statement: one reason is because 90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar.
I agree: "90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar." I disagree: that is a reason to drop WB price.
Yes, and you said that the reason not to change the price was because it was an AD sink. Which almost no one uses... because the WB price is higher than the items can be bought on the AH. We do NOT need to sink AD's from newbies that haven't figured out how to search the AH yet...
No, I did not make this statement at all.
"the reason not to change the price was because it was an AD sink"
1. I did not say the WB price should not be changed. 2. My comment is: regardless what the WB price will be lowered to, the AH will always be lower than the new WB price unless it is 0 or close to 0. 3. If the price happens to be higher, it is only because the newbies only knows to use AH and doesn't know about other vendors such as WB.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
But you don't have to salvage all of your items. You can sell it in the AH for straight AD and direct profit. For example; I get a ring worth 2000 salvage, I can post it for 2222 AD and some one will buy it for salvage + bonus AD and get 3000 AD yes they made 778 AD profit but you got 2000 clean AD and not added to your 100K cap. If the ring is a POS, then sell it for 1500 AD for a fast return, it is still a 100% profit for you!
Blues get posted. Unused purples get mulched.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
"the reason not to change the price was because it was an AD sink"
1. I did not say the WB price should not be changed. 2. My comment is: regardless what the WB price will be lowered to, the AH will always be lower than the new WB price unless it is 0 or close to 0. 3. If the price happens to be higher, it is only because the newbies only knows to use AH and doesn't know about other vendors such as WB.
Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry, I got your comment confused with greywynd's.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
My comment is: regardless what the WB price will be lowered to, the AH will always be lower than the new WB price unless it is 0 or close to 0.
Indeed. Many players stock up on WB items when there is a discount - and that discount stacks with the VIP discount, Anything which you do not need for your own use you can sell on the AH a month or two later at a lower price than the WB one, but still make a nice profit.
Comments
Do you mean they cannot log in the character and exit once per day?
If the person cannot spend (say) 3 minutes on the "not playing" day, yes, they are screwed by it.
But, casual player wouldn't have N alts to spread the salvage before mod 14. They probably have 1 or 2 characters. In that case, they had 36K or 72K refinement cap before. Now, they have 100K.
The point is, that those with time and motivation should be able to progress as fast as their motivation/time allows. And that time should not be judged based on a daily basis. If there are people who can play 10-12 hours on each day on the weekend, but cannot log in for the other 5 days, they should have the same benefits as anyone else that logs in 20-24 hours a week. It's fairly HAMSTER to assume that every person playing your game can log in for even a single minute every single day. When that assumption is made, you are laying claim to their life and making a hook into their daily life, it is no longer a voluntary hobby, it is more of a daily requirement. I feel much the same way about VIP Keys, too.
And, yes, it can be really annoying on some of the busy days that even I have to log in just to get a favor of sune and do basic maintenance and grab a key. Work a long day, play with kids with last few moments I have that I'm not sleeping... but, most days, I'm good. And, I have a fairly blah life. I know people that sometimes work 16+ hours a day and have families. They barely get to sleep on work days, so, really, you're saying they should be worried about logging in every day, and if they don't then, guess they don't matter or something, even though they play a ton on their off days? Come on, guys, understanding, sympathy, etc... all types play, and just because they don't log into an MMO every day does not mean they can't be hardcore. Casuals are even worse a lot of times... So, no, it's dumb to start making parts of the game completely against the typical lifestyles, and only cater to elites. It's even worse to go against both elites AND the others, which is what this does.
The only lucky part of this, is that most players won't ever care, because they spend their time dancing on tables, trying to explore, and taking weeks to get from 1-30, let alone further. This hurts the casuals that have ambition, and the hardcores who have busy lives. It really plays well to people who have hours every day and money to spend.
I said it was nice that shadoewrayth was able to generate enough rough astral diamonds every month to play entirely for free by relying on other people spending their money on the game instead of him/her spending his/her money on the game. For the time I've been playing, coalescent wards have been Zen store only. From what I have read, they were in the Wondrous Bazaar for a while, then removed from there and placed in the Tarmalune Trade Bar store, and finally removed from there, too. I don't know the reasoning behind this and I don't really care. Cryptic can do whatever it wants for whatever reason it chooses. I'm not going to subscribe to conspiracy theories. I'll give my feedback about proposed changes and then either live with them or stop spending money on the game (though if I stop spending money on this as entertainment, then I've probably stopped playing).
I have a 13.4k IL warlock, a 12.4k paladin, and a 12.4k ranger. I also have a 10k cleric and several other <9k characters (one for each class). I've raised the warlock and paladin by about 2k item level each just since the start of June. Progress has slowed again, but that's pretty normal for me; it'll creep up for a couple of months and then there'll be a burst of refining. My progress will probably be slow until November this time because I want to use my astral diamonds to help level my guild. In fact, I'm going to be spending money on the game between now and then for this explicit purpose.
Honestly, the people who were generating 2+ million new astral diamonds per day are the reason why the economy is the way it is in this game. I mean, think about it: 2 million per day is <b class="Bold">60 million per month! Can I understand why they would be upset about going from 60+ million per month to 3 million per month? Yes, absolutely. Would I be upset? Yes, absolutely. Would I quit playing over it? No, I would not - and so I don't care that they're upset. I have a bit of empathy for people like you who were grinding the random queues so hard. At the same time, I think the developers did you a favor because I know of no one who enjoyed grinding the random queues even as hard as I did - to say nothing about how hard you were. My wife and I are having a lot more fun running epic dungeons than we were in random queues before. Random queues were and still are a chore, but it's a chore we still engage in to generate some dungeoneer's shards for the guild. If there were a different way to get those as reliably, we would do that. (I am aware of the Maze Engine daily. It takes five days to generate a Gauntlgrym Bounty box and then you have to wait for a 2x shards event to get 20.)
I'm choosing to ignore the insult/personal attack in your final sentence...
e.g. The person who can do 6 invocations per day has an advantage over those who can only do 1 invocation per day and this group has an advantage over those who can do none.
My point is if whoever can match the game schedule, they will always have an edge.
It is also not about how much time you spend on the game. It is more about when you spend time on the game.
Can't see past the end of (one's) nose:
So preoccupied with oneself and one's situation as to be unaware or uncaring of other people or the bigger picture in life.
It was not meant as a personal attack. Regardless if you take it as one or not, that sentence is not directed at you and isn't written as such. It is as much what you done when you started writing about "people like you", lumping everyone into one general box since it started with... "Anyone". Yes you were tagged in the beginning but it drifts off in places and comes back in others so I can see the misunderstanding.
Conspiracy theories? ~200K a day for one character self improvement lumped in with people who are targeted to buy 100 mil AD companions or making mil++ AD per day as you say.
This was my main aim: Quickly answer op and then show other sides to what some players and Devs state intentions/effects are/will be and what also actually happened as a result of the changes. Treat it as conspiracy if you want but what I said in regards to that was factual.
Anyway enough on that topic from me, I done what I wanted and showed other sides to it here and in other threads. I am not trying to get it changed or want it changed lol. It was announced well ahead of implementation and gave players ample time to prepare and adjust for it anyways. So good day to you and I hope the devs allow you to make conscious decisions like an adult who can manage their own free time and finances whilst playing the game and enjoying it without limiting others (for their own good!) too much. Gl with the guild.
Ideally, MMOs should be subscription based, but very few games can actual compete using the subscription model.
It is worse if there are alternate sources for items in the WB. In that case you get no WB purchase and the AD drain effect is lost beyond the standard AH 10% fee.
My post is about I disagreed with the following statement:
one reason is because 90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar.
I agree: "90% of the time the AH price is cheaper than the Bazaar."
I disagree: that is a reason to drop WB price.
"the reason not to change the price was because it was an AD sink"
1. I did not say the WB price should not be changed.
2. My comment is: regardless what the WB price will be lowered to, the AH will always be lower than the new WB price unless it is 0 or close to 0.
3. If the price happens to be higher, it is only because the newbies only knows to use AH and doesn't know about other vendors such as WB.
"the reason not to change the price was because it was an AD sink"
1. I did not say the WB price should not be changed.
2. My comment is: regardless what the WB price will be lowered to, the AH will always be lower than the new WB price unless it is 0 or close to 0.
3. If the price happens to be higher, it is only because the newbies only knows to use AH and doesn't know about other vendors such as WB.
Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry, I got your comment confused with greywynd's.