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The UI wishlist + some bugs

ibz4ez#9773 ibz4ez Posts: 117Member Arc User
@midnightlight#2361
You asked for it on stream :) (I'll word it nicely xDD)

***Updated 19/07/2018 I'm British stop judging me on the date format -_-

Quick bugs/unintended effects:
- Yeah the numerical ordering for charcters on preview is a little odd. Here's a screenshot of how it currently works:
Numerical_ordering
Thought it should be in numerical value, so the characters that are 95th should be before those who are 200th.
*** This problem is probably irrelevant to people on the live server so I'm going to say leave it, who names their characters Jango 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 & 10 anyway amiright?

- Occassionally the login takes a really long time right before the character list is shown. (Maybe because of the new cinematic)
*** This is not because of the 350 odd characters on my account don't let that fool you, however after the recent updates the issue appears to have been fixed - I believe it was due to the cinematic.

- Something weird happens when ordering by date last played if you copy characters across from live or have a lot of characters. They seem to begin to order alphanumerically after about 20 characters being swapped to in succession. (So if you're copying keys or something let's just say the order becomes quite confusing.) Also with this method of sorting characters copied from live can get mixed about. Say you've copied 20 CWs. Then swap to sorting by date last played and copy another 20, what you end up with is the 14th character being ordered before the 12th character. (This might be just because I tend to open 20 tabs when I copy my characters across) but might be worth looking in to.
*** This has everything to do with my 20 Chrome tabs open. If you transfer or create characters one by one instead of 50 by 50 then this doesn't happen.

Feedback:
- More main characters would be really nice. 3 would be perfect. I guess sorted alphabetically? Or main characters sorted according to the criteria entered in.
- *** I would also like a new sorting method to be added that might be easier than the above suggestion of more * or main characters: Order by item level.

- The general aesthetic of the new title screen is amazing and if you change it I'll throw my PC out the window, but for some reason if you hold ALT+TAB the FPS of the title screen drops like a rock. So for multi-monitor setups swapping between windows using alt+tab causes some weird things to happen to both sound and animations (only on preview). *** Thank you so much to that dev whose name alludes me who told me the most life saving console command of all time ever that fixes this issue - the only one to rival its value being /makeMeADragonREEEEEE but I don't think that's a thing yet.
-
- The console that allows you to type in commands using ¬ key is in a really awkward position and doesn't let you scroll upwards, would it be possible to move it and be able to scroll up?
- ^^^ You fixed it!!! Much love for that :) also Page Up and Page Down for scrolling, really feel like I should've realised that.
Post edited by ibz4ez#9773 on

Comments

  • cdnbisoncdnbison Posts: 762Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    With regards to the Character Selection screen - it'd be nice if we could just simply lock certain characters into position, and let the rest float. I have a 70 of each class that I slide gear to when it shows up (via drops), and I'd like to keep them up top. The others I don't care that much about, but I'd *really* like some sort of "Assign to slot #X" / "Lock in this slot" option.
  • cilginordekcilginordek Posts: 438Member Arc User
    Character Bio could use some love. A title counter for example would be very nice.
  • uimavenuimaven Posts: 28 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer
    Hey, sorry for the delay in responding here.

    1) The "ordering by name" is alphabetical, not numerical. Numbers are treated as their alphabetical value, not their numerical value (this is pretty standard). So if you sort "Apple1, Apple2, Apple100, Apple12" alphabetically, you'll get "Apple1, Apple100, Apple12, Apple2" just like if you sort "AppleA, AppleC, AppleABB, AppleAC" you'll get "AppleA, AppleABB, AppleAC, AppleC".

    2) "Occasionally the login takes a really long time right before the character list is shown." Is this with your 350 character list? I might see the problem. :)

    3) "Something weird happens when ordering by date last played" Our best guess is that it is because you have 20 tabs open and are doing that all at once (having 350 characters probably isn't helping either). The transactions aren't really designed to be used like that since it's not a typical case.

    4) "More main characters would be really nice." We're working on it. Multiple mains and the ability to custom sort were two things that were part of the initial design, but that got cut for time. We figured you'd rather have some improvements now rather than wait some indeterminate amount of time for *all* the improvements.

    5) "for some reason if you hold ALT+TAB the FPS of the title screen drops like a rock." Yes, alt+tab switches you out of the game window and into another Windows window. Our game is designed to drop its framerate then, so that it doesn't slow down the other application that you're presumably trying to use. If you want Neverwinter to be running full tilt even when its not in your focused window, try typing "maxinactivefps 60" into the console. Your other applications might not appreciate this, though! The default is 5, so use "maxinactivefps 5" to reset it to normal.

    6) "The console that allows you to type in commands using ¬ key is in a really awkward position and doesn't let you scroll upwards, would it be possible to move it and be able to scroll up?" If you press 'alt' before you press "~" you have always been able to move your mouse cursor to the bottom edge of the console and drag it up. It's a bit tricky to find the spot, though. The tooltip "Click and drag to resize console" will appear when you've got it. The PageUp/PageDown keys will let you scroll through the console content.
  • brewaldbrewald Posts: 168Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    uimaven said:



    4) "More main characters would be really nice." We're working on it. Multiple mains and the ability to custom sort were two things that were part of the initial design, but that got cut for time. We figured you'd rather have some improvements now rather than wait some indeterminate amount of time for *all* the improvements.

    Good new, thx :dizzy:
    Brewald - GWF 18.3k
    Eleonore - CW Mof Renegade 17.5k
    Harlgard le Vieux - OP Prot 18.3k
    Valrik - DC AC 18.2k
    Furiela - SW Temp 18.1k
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,960Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    uimaven said:



    2) "Occasionally the login takes a really long time right before the character list is shown." Is this with your 350 character list? I might see the problem. :)

    3) "Something weird happens when ordering by date last played" Our best guess is that it is because you have 20 tabs open and are doing that all at once (having 350 characters probably isn't helping either). The transactions aren't really designed to be used like that since it's not a typical case.

    Are we talking about the same game? Where does the 350 character come from? I think the max is less than 60 characters. Is 350 for humor purpose?
  • dupeksdupeks Posts: 1,789Member Arc User

    uimaven said:



    2) "Occasionally the login takes a really long time right before the character list is shown." Is this with your 350 character list? I might see the problem. :)

    3) "Something weird happens when ordering by date last played" Our best guess is that it is because you have 20 tabs open and are doing that all at once (having 350 characters probably isn't helping either). The transactions aren't really designed to be used like that since it's not a typical case.

    Are we talking about the same game? Where does the 350 character come from? I think the max is less than 60 characters. Is 350 for humor purpose?
    Preview does not have character limits that I'm aware of (except for the performance degradation described in the OP). And if for some reason you feel the need to keep all of the old ones around...

    People repeatedly copy characters in order to duplicate resources for testing, leveling up guilds on preview, etc.
  • therealprotextherealprotex Posts: 395Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    uimaven said:

    Hey, sorry for the delay in responding here.

    1) The "ordering by name" is alphabetical, not numerical. Numbers are treated as their alphabetical value, not their numerical value (this is pretty standard). So if you sort "Apple1, Apple2, Apple100, Apple12" alphabetically, you'll get "Apple1, Apple100, Apple12, Apple2" just like if you sort "AppleA, AppleC, AppleABB, AppleAC" you'll get "AppleA, AppleABB, AppleAC, AppleC".

    If you do not sort Apples but Windows, it goes "Window1, Window2, Window3, ... Window9, Window10, Window11". Rather natural and standard.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Posts: 1,010Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    uimaven said:

    Hey, sorry for the delay in responding here.

    1) The "ordering by name" is alphabetical, not numerical. Numbers are treated as their alphabetical value, not their numerical value (this is pretty standard). So if you sort "Apple1, Apple2, Apple100, Apple12" alphabetically, you'll get "Apple1, Apple100, Apple12, Apple2" just like if you sort "AppleA, AppleC, AppleABB, AppleAC" you'll get "AppleA, AppleABB, AppleAC, AppleC".

    If you do not sort Apples but Windows, it goes "Window1, Window2, Window3, ... Window9, Window10, Window11". Rather natural and standard.
    Uh, no, you'd get "Window1, Window10, Window11, Window2"

    Because alphabetically, "1" comes before "10" comes before "11" comes before "2".

    If it was all two-digit numbers - Window01, Window02, etc - it would work except when you hit Window100, which would come after Window10 and before Window11.
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Posts: 1,229Member Arc User
    lowjohn and uimaven have explained the sorting very well. The issue is a perception problem.

    We're talking about sorting character names here and a developer would naturally use an alphabetical sorting method.

    Who would have thought through that people would start naming their characters "Storage1, Storage2, Storage3, etc."

    On the flipside...it's not an unsolvable problem. It would just take a lot more time and effort to break character names up so the strings are split into alphabetical and numerical components to sort everything the way we assume they naturally would.
  • earlgreybeardearlgreybeard Posts: 322Member Arc User
    the ghosting graphics still bad on certain ground surfaces

    much of the ground in various parts of chult.. barovia is not so bad.. the big mound of bad ground you need to cleanse is the worst ... when you kill the first lot of enemy it is fine.. looks normal ,before you hit f and sanctify the ground but after when you fight the next mob that springs up.. whoa , graphic ghosting to the max, this gets very disorienting and has pretty uncomfortable feeling about it.. I just can't get away from it quick enough

    is this ghosting ever going to be addressed?
    is there something I change in the options to get rid of it?

    do people just ignore it maybe or am I the only one that gets it?
    Guild Leader Den of the Misfits
  • lowjohnlowjohn Posts: 1,010Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    lowjohn and uimaven have explained the sorting very well. The issue is a perception problem.

    We're talking about sorting character names here and a developer would naturally use an alphabetical sorting method.

    Who would have thought through that people would start naming their characters "Storage1, Storage2, Storage3, etc."

    On the flipside...it's not an unsolvable problem. It would just take a lot more time and effort to break character names up so the strings are split into alphabetical and numerical components to sort everything the way we assume they naturally would.

    It's more a problem on Preview, where every time you copy your character from Live you get a new character with a number after it.

    So if your main toon is Joe Fighter, you copy him to preview and get Joe Fighter, fine. Copy him again a week later, you have Joe Fighter 2. Copy him 9 more times over the next year or so and you get Joe Fighter 3, 4, 5, 6, etc, and eventually Joe Fighter 10 and Joe Fighter 11.

    And the issue is *those* don't sort well.
  • therealprotextherealprotex Posts: 395Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2018
    lowjohn said:

    uimaven said:

    Hey, sorry for the delay in responding here.

    1) The "ordering by name" is alphabetical, not numerical. Numbers are treated as their alphabetical value, not their numerical value (this is pretty standard). So if you sort "Apple1, Apple2, Apple100, Apple12" alphabetically, you'll get "Apple1, Apple100, Apple12, Apple2" just like if you sort "AppleA, AppleC, AppleABB, AppleAC" you'll get "AppleA, AppleABB, AppleAC, AppleC".

    If you do not sort Apples but Windows, it goes "Window1, Window2, Window3, ... Window9, Window10, Window11". Rather natural and standard.
    Uh, no, you'd get "Window1, Window10, Window11, Window2"

    Because alphabetically, "1" comes before "10" comes before "11" comes before "2".

    If it was all two-digit numbers - Window01, Window02, etc - it would work except when you hit Window100, which would come after Window10 and before Window11.
    No, you get "Window1, Window2, Window3, … Window9, Window10". It was changed long time ago and is ordered in a more natural way of reading (where 2 comes before 10) and thus created a new standard.

    image


    Post edited by therealprotex on
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,960Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Interesting. I have just checked with Windows 10 Windows Explorer.

    It is in the following order:
    windows1, windows002xx, windows02xx, windows2, windows2xx, windows10, windows10xx, windows0020xx.

    Use 'dir' in cmd shows:

    windows002xx, windows002xx, windows02xx, windows1, windows10, windows10xx, windows2, windows2xx
  • dupeksdupeks Posts: 1,789Member Arc User
    https://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-numerical-file-name-sorting-and-enable-classic-literal-sorting-in-windows-xp-vista-and-7-explorer/

    Came about in XP, but that's only if you're used to listing files in a windows environment. In my experience, most non-windows environments have stuck to literal sort order, vs "intuitive numerical" order.

    In this context, it's pretty clear to see that they would have to build out a name parser to identify when there is a number at the end of the name, then sort by the "base" name and number. Given this is only an issue on preview, I think there are probably higher priority issues that devs should put resources against first.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,960Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2018
    dupeks said:

    https://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-numerical-file-name-sorting-and-enable-classic-literal-sorting-in-windows-xp-vista-and-7-explorer/

    Came about in XP, but that's only if you're used to listing files in a windows environment. In my experience, most non-windows environments have stuck to literal sort order, vs "intuitive numerical" order.

    In this context, it's pretty clear to see that they would have to build out a name parser to identify when there is a number at the end of the name, then sort by the "base" name and number. Given this is only an issue on preview, I think there are probably higher priority issues that devs should put resources against first.

    If you use Windows as a reference, the numeric can be anywhere in the name, can be multiple numeric and not just limited to the end of the name.
  • therealprotextherealprotex Posts: 395Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    dupeks said:

    https://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-numerical-file-name-sorting-and-enable-classic-literal-sorting-in-windows-xp-vista-and-7-explorer/

    Came about in XP, but that's only if you're used to listing files in a windows environment. In my experience, most non-windows environments have stuck to literal sort order, vs "intuitive numerical" order.

    In this context, it's pretty clear to see that they would have to build out a name parser to identify when there is a number at the end of the name, then sort by the "base" name and number. Given this is only an issue on preview, I think there are probably higher priority issues that devs should put resources against first.

    Actually noone needs to reinvent the wheel. There are more than enough (free) libraries that provide what would be needed, e.g. http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qcollator.html
  • dupeksdupeks Posts: 1,789Member Arc User

    dupeks said:

    https://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-numerical-file-name-sorting-and-enable-classic-literal-sorting-in-windows-xp-vista-and-7-explorer/

    Came about in XP, but that's only if you're used to listing files in a windows environment. In my experience, most non-windows environments have stuck to literal sort order, vs "intuitive numerical" order.

    In this context, it's pretty clear to see that they would have to build out a name parser to identify when there is a number at the end of the name, then sort by the "base" name and number. Given this is only an issue on preview, I think there are probably higher priority issues that devs should put resources against first.

    Actually noone needs to reinvent the wheel. There are more than enough (free) libraries that provide what would be needed, e.g. http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qcollator.html
    Sure, I should have said "integrate" instead of "build out".

    I'm not certain the effort level is any lower, especially on such a "simple" feature / enhancement. The bulk of the effort is likely not actually writing the code, but all of the logistics / infrastructure that goes into making and testing code changes.

    I guess my point is that there are many items that I would hope the devs prioritize over solving this particular problem. I appreciate that it was called out and reported, but allowing us to choose multiple mains will be a good enough solution in my book.
  • ibz4ez#9773 ibz4ez Posts: 117Member Arc User
    uimaven said:

    Hey, sorry for the delay in responding here.

    1) The "ordering by name" is alphabetical, not numerical. Numbers are treated as their alphabetical value, not their numerical value (this is pretty standard). So if you sort "Apple1, Apple2, Apple100, Apple12" alphabetically, you'll get "Apple1, Apple100, Apple12, Apple2" just like if you sort "AppleA, AppleC, AppleABB, AppleAC" you'll get "AppleA, AppleABB, AppleAC, AppleC".

    2) "Occasionally the login takes a really long time right before the character list is shown." Is this with your 350 character list? I might see the problem. :)

    3) "Something weird happens when ordering by date last played" Our best guess is that it is because you have 20 tabs open and are doing that all at once (having 350 characters probably isn't helping either). The transactions aren't really designed to be used like that since it's not a typical case.

    4) "More main characters would be really nice." We're working on it. Multiple mains and the ability to custom sort were two things that were part of the initial design, but that got cut for time. We figured you'd rather have some improvements now rather than wait some indeterminate amount of time for *all* the improvements.

    5) "for some reason if you hold ALT+TAB the FPS of the title screen drops like a rock." Yes, alt+tab switches you out of the game window and into another Windows window. Our game is designed to drop its framerate then, so that it doesn't slow down the other application that you're presumably trying to use. If you want Neverwinter to be running full tilt even when its not in your focused window, try typing "maxinactivefps 60" into the console. Your other applications might not appreciate this, though! The default is 5, so use "maxinactivefps 5" to reset it to normal.

    6) "The console that allows you to type in commands using ¬ key is in a really awkward position and doesn't let you scroll upwards, would it be possible to move it and be able to scroll up?" If you press 'alt' before you press "~" you have always been able to move your mouse cursor to the bottom edge of the console and drag it up. It's a bit tricky to find the spot, though. The tooltip "Click and drag to resize console" will appear when you've got it. The PageUp/PageDown keys will let you scroll through the console content.

    maxinactivefps has actually cured all disease in my life. Thank you.
    Also PU and PD should have been obvious shouldn't it? ;(

    Anyway I was away from this game for a while and now I have no clue what has happened with patches so I'm gonna go read that and then update this thread, thanks for the reply.
  • sobacsobac Posts: 376Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Would like to see a manual sorting, for example: select toon -> press PgUp/PgDwn to move up/down selected toon within the list.
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