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CW is BROKEN... Again! Plz fix SS

I got a 17k3 SS CW and nobody will pick me up in LFG! All they want is MOF now. Although MOF is useful but I chose CW for DPS. Why would they nerf one side to make the other side usable 2 years later. If I wanted to be a buffer or be a support class, I would have chose one. How is this not a cash grab move? Why all of a sudden is SS deemed unnecessarily by PWE? Why are more classes becoming Buff now but the almighty GWF?
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  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 3,166Member Arc User

    I got a 17k3 SS CW and nobody will pick me up in LFG! All they want is MOF now. Although MOF is useful but I chose CW for DPS. Why would they nerf one side to make the other side usable 2 years later. If I wanted to be a buffer or be a support class, I would have chose one. How is this not a cash grab move? Why all of a sudden is SS deemed unnecessarily by PWE? Why are more classes becoming Buff now but the almighty GWF?

    First, all classes but TR can provide some type of group buffing, though a GWF buffing is smaller when compared to a CW Oppressor or Renegade build. If you want to be a DPS still should swap over to the Oppressor path as it does offer a 10% group damage buff. On bosses run a similar build but as a MoF for additional debuffing. I do just fine as a SS/MoF Oppressor. I still have my old SS Thaum build but never use it as it is inferior when running solo or running groups.

    Group wants buffing DPS over pure DPS for the sole fact of increasing damage not only for yourself but for the group. This is why the Oppressor build is the way to go, it offers both DPS and buffing.

    You should use both of your loadouts as Oppressor. One for SS AoE build and the MoF one for Single Target. I use the SS Oppressor for solo play and group play up to bosses and on bosses I swap over to my MoF. I like the changes to the CW; it gave us additional builds outside of the old build of Thaum DPS and Renegade Buffer. Now CW have 8 total various builds available to us. I have all 8 for my loadouts but only use the two I listed above given that I rarely need to fully buff or go full DPS any more.

  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,779Member Arc User
    edited June 2018

    I got a 17k3 SS CW and nobody will pick me up in LFG! All they want is MOF now. Although MOF is useful but I chose CW for DPS. Why would they nerf one side to make the other side usable 2 years later. If I wanted to be a buffer or be a support class, I would have chose one. How is this not a cash grab move? Why all of a sudden is SS deemed unnecessarily by PWE? Why are more classes becoming Buff now but the almighty GWF?

    Quick response:

    I agree that SS is strangely disenfranchised and CW needs a few more fixes overall. Generally speaking, the only time an SS build will shine for end-game bosses is when there is a supporting MoF in the group to provide Smolder debuffs.

    That being said, if you want to be HDPS CW, make a MoF DPS single-target build. My CW is similar in ilvl to yours and can be main DPS for tong or Cradle with no issue.

    Edit: I agree with mebengalsfan's recommendation for Oppressor. For dungeons I don't see the point in running MoF for trash even in a supporting role unless group DPS is slow enough that it's worth debuffing enemies instead of just applying damage more quickly with Storm Spell procs. For bosses, as I mentioned above, a MoF DPS build is superior to SS except in the case that another CW is providing MoF debuff.

    Post edited by vorphied on
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  • sgtpostal#4408 sgtpostal Posts: 314Member Arc User
    lol i agree with poster..... nobdy wants you in group as a cw if you aint mof..... and if you aint mof better be hdps. ya somebdy in game told me "its the same for all classes.... one or the other....." well actualy its not.... with cw most only want the one (mof) an if u aint mof... you aint good nough for "my" group...... with the other classes its either or.... ppl prefer "this" type or "that" type... but if they r either or and r decent at it....."heey ur good nough for the group". i play straight cw ss op for dps and donot mof. as result i have only run codg a handful of times and tong only been in 1 time an all this with guild no pug or lfg. way i see it.... why b forced to play smethin i dont want to? jus bc im not hdps dps doesnt mean im bottm fodder dps either (if i was all cmpns wouldnt be complete) lol.just my 2 cents.... why be forced to play a role the "society" wants just bc thats what "society" wants? "society" wants you to jump off the empire state building you gunna do that too?
  • kisakeekisakee Posts: 193Member Arc User
    I totally disagree, not being the chosen one for a dungeon doesn't mean your class is broken. I've seen groups with a CW, TR, GWF and a GF as main DD, even two TRs worked perfectly fine in Tong. Most people looking for group members are already DDs so they don't need another one, that's the simple answer. If you're not happy with being rejected just build your own group, this way you're making the rules.
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  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 3,166Member Arc User

    lol i agree with poster..... nobdy wants you in group as a cw if you aint mof..... and if you aint mof better be hdps. ya somebdy in game told me "its the same for all classes.... one or the other....." well actualy its not.... with cw most only want the one (mof) an if u aint mof... you aint good nough for "my" group...... with the other classes its either or.... ppl prefer "this" type or "that" type... but if they r either or and r decent at it....."heey ur good nough for the group". i play straight cw ss op for dps and donot mof. as result i have only run codg a handful of times and tong only been in 1 time an all this with guild no pug or lfg. way i see it.... why b forced to play smethin i dont want to? jus bc im not hdps dps doesnt mean im bottm fodder dps either (if i was all cmpns wouldnt be complete) lol.just my 2 cents.... why be forced to play a role the "society" wants just bc thats what "society" wants? "society" wants you to jump off the empire state building you gunna do that too?

    First, a HDPS is any class that can produce high damage in a dungeon. This typically are all classes not called OP or DC that are 15KIL+ when the class is properly built and played, including CW.

    My 16K CW plays with 15-17K SW, HR, GWF, etc... as a SS Oppressor I ruin all of those classes up to a boss. When we get to a boss, I take a drop in my damage but I providing debuff and buff and that outweighs the slight boost in damage I would get as a full on CW DPS. By the end of T9 I am usually around 700-850M vs. the other player at 1-1.3B in damamge. Given that I don't take the dmg buff on Orcus I must state that I'm doing just as much as a standard 2nd DPS in T9; however, I am providing a 10% consistent damage buff on adds and boss and when on bosses I provide additional buffing from RoE and SoD as a MoF. I could squeeze more damage out of my CW if I ran the Fey but the boost for the cost is not worth it for an alt I play.

    Oppressor build CWs are not just buffers, they also do damage. Having the right gear and know the right rotation all come into play when playing as a MoF Oppressor. I liked the Oppressor build even before this update and I'm happy the dev did make these changes to the Oppressor path.

    The CW has three true builds...Oppressor as the Hybrid, Thaum as pure selfish DPS and Renegade as pure buffing/debuffing. Knowing how there is diminishing returns for debuffs the Renegade is only useful when you don't run two 2 DCs; that is when the Hybrid build comes into play for groups. The only time a pure DPS build should be used is if there are 3 CW in a group with one running MoF Renegade/Oppressor, the 2nd CW running SS Oppressor and than the 3rd CW can run the Thaum build.

    I rarely see two CWs in a group, I rarely see groups not running 2 DC so MoF Oppressor and SS Oppressor are the two builds that should be a priority to setup for CWs. Even without 2 DC's the Oppressor path still provide buffing that is better than no buffs at all.

  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,779Member Arc User
    You aren’t giving up any damage by going MoF DPS build if you are the only CW. On the contrary, MoF DPS beats SS on bosses both in personal damage and group utility except in the aforementioned case.

    In many cases it’s not worth it to run a full support MoF even as secondary DPS; dropping Combustive Action for Chilling Presence is the better option if you’re providing a large chunk of the total DPS.
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  • sgtpostal#4408 sgtpostal Posts: 314Member Arc User
    lol @mebengalsfan ..... nvr said nuttin abt anythin like wht ur sayin far as the HDPS is concerned..... all i stated was that most ppl want mof cw's or nuttin at all bc of the combat advantage a mof cw can provide wen in q........ that being said another thing i mentioned was.... why am "i" (whoevr "i" is) guna b forced to play a role that "i" dont want to play (mof buff/debuff hybrid) was my only point.... when said person is not hdps in a cw's case.... better be mof.... u aint either u aint gettin in..... reg dps jus aint good nough no more nowa days or evn mediumn lvl dps (abve reg below hdps).... was my only point.... but heeeey like i also said in previous quote... jus my 2cents.... not that it matters lol 2 cents to a dollar aint much in comparison (or in other words.... 1 voice in the mob crowd) lol
  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    Once again, how is that not a cash grab move? Now I have to get enchants, artifacts, gear, kits, etc... to run a MOF build to be relevant, and switch loadouts at a campfire... o wait.... there isn’t a campfire to switch in CODG is there? That’s even if you get picked up as a SS. What other DPS classes have to switch paragons to be kinda almost relevant just to be picked up in groups? What happened to class leveling to make them more “equal”? I mean... tanks do better dmg (GF). HR’s, TR’s, SW’s and GWF don’t have to run multiple loadouts... but CW’s do. I went from being picked up regularly for end game dungeons with ease as a SS to getting private tells saying “switch to MOF or it’s a “no go”. Once again, I’m forced to run my CW that’s almost 2 years old as a buff role now but wasn’t before!
  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    Once again... if I wanted to play a support role I would have! No other DPS class is being forced to play as a support role just to be picked up for end game dungeons... why should the CW all of a sudden be forced to? How is this not a cash grab move once again?
  • kisakeekisakee Posts: 193Member Arc User
    What's your problem? There's no cash grab. Just get another loadout if you want to have a MoF, no need for switching any equipment. MoF is all about feats and skills.

    And if you don't want to play a supporter just don't do it but don't cry instead when a supporter is wanted, no dev will ever buff SS till it's competitive to the buffs/ debuffs a MoF can provide. Deal with it.
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  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    edited June 2018
    A good MOF build requires high recovery. As a SS, I was not required to have high recovery. Therefore to run the loadouts as stated above (SS and MOF) that requires 2 sets of gear, silvery enchants and recovery kits etc... which means more money! How do you not understand these things? Do you even play a CW?
  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    Also.... I don’t want MOF, don’t care for it. So... why should I be forced to play MOF just to run end game dungeons when before the last DLC, it wasn’t a issue. If I wanted to be a support class, I would have chosen a support class.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 2,865Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 2018

    Once again, how is that not a cash grab move? Now I have to get enchants, artifacts, gear, kits, etc... to run a MOF build to be relevant, and switch loadouts at a campfire... o wait.... there isn’t a campfire to switch in CODG is there? That’s even if you get picked up as a SS. What other DPS classes have to switch paragons to be kinda almost relevant just to be picked up in groups? What happened to class leveling to make them more “equal”? I mean... tanks do better dmg (GF). HR’s, TR’s, SW’s and GWF don’t have to run multiple loadouts... but CW’s do. I went from being picked up regularly for end game dungeons with ease as a SS to getting private tells saying “switch to MOF or it’s a “no go”. Once again, I’m forced to run my CW that’s almost 2 years old as a buff role now but wasn’t before!

    What is this nonsense...

    TRs, GWFs, etc.. Do NOT HAVE viable support loadouts.

    You want to join the single loadout crowd, like the rest of us, make the party...
    No one holding a gun to your head. You want to count as DPS, then enjoy the joys of no room in parties as DPS, like the rest of the DPS classes.

    This is not mod4 with 5 CW parties.
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  • kisakeekisakee Posts: 193Member Arc User
    There is absolutely no need for extremly high stats or something like that, i'm running Tong with 8k revocery on my CW and it's no problem. I already had a random queue in there with 3 people around 14k, one on 13,3k and one on 14,3k and we managed it in fantastic 26 minutes without any problem. It's not about being the best but to know how to play your class and being helpful for your current group, this is way more important than item level.

    There are way more supporter than damage dealer needed for now and you made your choice, don't blame others if they need a specific class or spec to get their runs done. The game is changing all the time, maybe you could be the hero in the next module. Until then avoid dungeons runs, build your own groups or get yourself another loadout but don't complain about not being the number one.
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  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    Before the recent changes to CW, I didn’t have to have multiple loadouts. I WAS in the single load out crowd. Now... I’m being forced to.
  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    I never said anything about being number 1, those are your words and yours only. I do agree with you about there being more supporters than damage dealers tho. Thing is that was a option for them. When’s the last time you just sat in the PORT and watched the chat and saw someone requesting a CW DPS that did not indicate MOF? It used to happen but not anymore.
  • kisakeekisakee Posts: 193Member Arc User
    Before the recent changes to CW there was no Omu and no CoDG so yeah, no need for a second loadout i guess. And with number one i meant being the main damage dealer of the group. Buffs and Debuffs are more usefull than another DD, that's just what it is. You can't change it, no way. You can't blame anyone for this.

    And for me i don't care what class the DD is, if s/he is doing the job i'm totally fine with everything. Just play with friends or guild / alliance members to avoid things that happened to you recently and maybe you'll find out other groups working with more DDs or whatever. Not your class is broken, only your believe in it. Just wait for the new day and get yourself some light for the dark night, that's all i can tell you.
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  • kisakeekisakee Posts: 193Member Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    TRs [...] Do NOT HAVE viable support loadouts.

    Objection!

    Dazing mobs with Smoke Bomb, Dazing Strike, Impact Shot, Talisman of Shadows etc., making the enemy taking more damage with Sly Flourish and Wicked Reminder, controlling and debuffing bosses with Courage Breaker, having some 'tanking' aspect with Bait and Switch - i totally call this viable support, even if not the best you can get.^^
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  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    My point is that before recent changes to the CW, I regularly got into end game material and now, hardly ever. Yes... I can run with guild and alliance some but I do enjoy LFG and Zone and meeting and chatting with new players. Now, that’s kinda been taken away from me. Also, why cripple one side just to make the other paragon viable?
  • jdizzle4469#7877 jdizzle4469 Posts: 17Member Arc User
    I agree. I personally did not create a cw to be a buff/support!!! I built a mage a cloth wearing burst dps with control. Now I like the idea that seems to be coming to the game with characters. Having choice in paragon paths are great. But there is absolutely no need or want for a dps ss cw as it is last in dmg. With that being said I'm on ps4 prove me wrong. Even mof single target is clunky feeling and no wear near enough dmg output to be called into a group to dps. Ss and mof are never called for dps. I hate mof as it has the worst feel ever. I see these changes that PWE are implementing to benefit them. More loadouts new debuff artifacts companions ect ect...
    A gameplay,DPS,Lightning creating burst dmg of koolness that I spent a lot of money on trashed!!! What I really want to know is when is the cw going to be looked at. Seems one mod came, changes were made and left for dead. I understand Devs that storm spell isn't what you wanted to make up for alot of the dmg as a personal.But What happened to buffing the encounter powers! Storm spell and its effects ARE Awsomeness,Koolness!!! You have a control wizard, Fire/Lightning class of Awsomeness! Please don't leave it for dead...Buff the encounter powers. Buff the weak at-wills! Something! Just do something... BUT whatever you do DONT break it!!!!
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,779Member Arc User
    edited June 2018
    On a side note about recovery, the best boss DPS builds for CW spec full Oppressor with three tiers in Thaum. If you want to maximize your damage as either MoF or SS, you need a certain minimum of recovery so that you can skip Spell Twisting and take Elemental Reinforcement instead.

    More challenging to build for early on, but achievable with the right combination of equipment and enchants without sacrificing ArP or crit, and without using any Silvery.
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  • sgtpostal#4408 sgtpostal Posts: 314Member Arc User
    lol jus lol.... the problem is with the changes made to the cw.... and the fact that while ppl are requesting supporter roles for a given dungeon.... they still need the dd portions of the grp but are not evn considering cw's in their choices for those spots unless the cw is an hdps.... that being said..... for say codg... 10 ppl more than 1 dd.... not all hdps's yes sme r but sme r standout hdps'ers (1-2b vs 8-900millersor evn k'ers) but with cws.... if u aint mof u better be one of those standouts or millers bc nobdy will want u in if ur a k'er dd wen they can jus as easily get a miller dd gwf or sw or op or acdc or evn tr..... point being since the changes to the cw ppl want most cw's to b moffers or they wont evn look ur way.... evn if more than 1 dd is required for the grp.... unless of course ur a standout dd or miller dd...... so the k'er dd cws are left to bite the dut or go mof. and not evryone cares to play mof (or whtevr their allt role is) and as such is pretty unfair u ask me... but again jus my 2cents lol an 2cents on a dollar dnt make a differencce much lol.
  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    I promise you, I’m not alone feeling this way. My CW is nearing 2 years old on PS4. I’m a member of the FB CW page and keep up to date on what the “Experts” have to say in the group. Since the changes, there is a overwhelming change from SS to MOF because we are being left out. The game is losing ppl at a alarming rate due to the changes. Devs.... please fix it!
  • sgtpostal#4408 sgtpostal Posts: 314Member Arc User

    I promise you, I’m not alone feeling this way. My CW is nearing 2 years old on PS4. I’m a member of the FB CW page and keep up to date on what the “Experts” have to say in the group. Since the changes, there is a overwhelming change from SS to MOF because we are being left out. The game is losing ppl at a alarming rate due to the changes. Devs.... please fix it!

    lol the overwhelming change from ss to mof is due to the nerf cw's recieved at the launch of this mod.... they nerfd a certain power an slightly buffed a certain power. so its bc of this nerf/buff the cw class got that spiked this overwhelming switch from ss to mof..... that an the new epic trial (codg) ppl want mof bc of the combat advantage a cw can provide wen in mof.



  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    I know why the change is lol, it’s pretty obvious. As I stated before, I try and keep up to date on the CW. Still my question is the same tho. Why nerf one paragon to buff the other? It wasn’t like the CW was the best DPS class or the 2nd. Why was it deemed necessary to nerf one side to make the other viable besides the obvious to force people to switch costing the CW users more money/AD? I’m not saying that the MOF CW isn’t good at what’s it was intended for but why nerf SS tho?
  • spidey#3367 spidey Posts: 399Member Arc User
    kisakee said:

    There is absolutely no need for extremly high stats or something like that, i'm running Tong with 8k revocery on my CW and it's no problem.

    And thats without any companion. Kudos for that. Thats the spirit. so /sign to kisas post.
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  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    edited June 2018
    I totally agree about that statement. I’m not saying it is impossible either. I’m saying what is obvious once again! When is the last time you saw anyone shout for a CW and they didn’t indicate MOF? It used to happen but not anymore. Also.... why was SS nerfed when we were not even a TOP 2 DPS class? Care to answer that one?
  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    Can someone help me out here? I have a hard time understanding why they nerfed one paragon (SS) to buff the other paragon (MOF).
    I think it’s awesome that they made the MOF paragon usable but why nerf SS tho? I could understand nerfing SS if it was a top DPS but the CW wasn’t even top 2 DPS classes and arguably not even a top 3 DPS class.
    I don’t get why they would do it other than to make a cash grab move to get cW’s to switch from one paragon to the other costing more AD/money. Although the MOF is good for what it was intended to do, some (including myself) don’t care for MOF.
    Can anyone give any explanations?
  • sgtpostal#4408 sgtpostal Posts: 314Member Arc User
    lol anoter thread man? lol yo sent u a freind request but anyways.... as to my understanding wen the nerf went on.... they did it to from wht they said.... bring mof more up to par with ss.... requireing the ss nerf as im guessin that the mof buff still woulda left it far below the ss capabilites in game..... least thats wht i remmber readin yo
  • nevian#0931 nevian Posts: 31Member Arc User
    I gonna keep on till I get some answers lol.
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