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SW Needs a Buff [Mod14-Relevent] [PC] - Into the HDPS category please.

ibz4ez#9773 ibz4ez Posts: 117Member Arc User
edited September 2018 in The Nine Hells
Recently, there has been a positive effort to revitalise the SW class for use as a buffer/debuffer support role in dungeons in MOD13.
But in all honestly, nobody in their right mind is going to take an end-game dungeon of players through Castle Ravenloft with a SW as main DPS, especially when the outstanding burst DPS of GF, or all round solid DPS of GWF, still exists.


So I'd like to propose some small changes to the Fury Feat line of SW Hellbringer paragon and some Powers in order to bring it up to standard with the rest of the DPS classes, especially seeing as the description of this class is "You want to deal damage."

Current Change list:

Firstly, unlike GFs and GWFs SW abilities still don't all crit. Therefore my first change would be to Creeping Death
- Enable this feat's DoT effect to crit.
Another issue with the DoT of this feat is, well, it's a bit slow. In competitive DPS dungeons a GWF or GF is going to be pushing the 100-300k damage instantly with at-wills whereas warlocks are having to wait a fantastic 1.5 odd seconds between ticks of the DoT.
- Accelerate the ticks of this DoT, I honestly couldn't tell you how much this should be accelerated by because Crit will change the numbers. But i'd start with 1.2¬0.8 seconds and see how that goes.
- (Personally if I were coding this specific feat I would have the DoT tick speed increased for every stack of creeping death.)

The power Killing Flames seems to be on a really crazy DPS multiplier as the target's health decreases, but is a pee shooter when the target is at 50% HP of more.
- Flatten out the curve of this power so it doesn't go completely overboard on damage when targets have very little HP and increase the damage it does to targets above 50% HP.
- At the moment it's doing between 700k¬1.5mil on my own buffs as the target approaches 1% HP. Then goes ahead and deals between 90k-150k any other time.

9 times out of 10 in Neverwinter these days you're facing enemies that are CC resistant.
This sort of puts Hadar's Grasp totally out of range for boss fights and actually most situations. So the proposed change is:
- If the target is CC immune the target takes the full damage of this power instantly, cooldown is reduced by [Rank 1/2/3/4 (1s/2s/3s/4s)]
- This effect should not work in PvP including the cooldown reduction
- Tooltip should now read: "You lift your foe into the air, dealing damage to them over time and stunning them. If your foe is CC resistant, deal this power's damage instantly and reduce the cooldown by 1s. (Does not affect CC resistant targets in PvP)".
This power's animation is also so damn CLUNCKY.
- Animation speed increased by a factor of 1.5x

*Edit 1
One of the things I see most commonly when browsing other suggested buffs for SW is that the class itself has relatively few self-buffs or at least none that can stack.
My suggestion to help with this would be yet another change to Creeping Death.
- For each stack you deal an additional 1% damage to the target.
Now on reading that myself it seems a little overpowered, especially vs bosses, but let's all be honest here and say that right now SW needs a little overpowered.

*Edit 2 18/09/2018
I've been reading through the discussion about some glitch causing HDPS 100mil hits in codg with the SW or something.
A couple issues with this argument as a reason to not buff the SW.
Firstly it's probably due to an interaction between lots of buffer classes, potentially 9 others doing buffs, and nothing to do with the SW themself.
Secondly it doesn't really effect the dungeon grind as a SW main DPS, which is currently not doable.

Also, for bonus cookies, does anybody know who is running the show for the SW changes come MOD15? I assume it would be Balanced but I could be wrong.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm hoping these changes will help put SW near Tier 1 for HDPS.

If you have any other suggestions, or think some of these changes are a little overpowered, do let me know in the comments.

#MakingSWGreatAgain...Again

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post edited by ibz4ez#9773 on
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Comments

  • mirajanesitrimirajanesitri Posts: 32Member Arc User

    Recently, there has been a positive effort to revitalise the SW class for use as a buffer/debuffer support role in dungeons in MOD13.
    But in all honestly, nobody in their right mind is going to take an end-game dungeon of players through Castle Ravenloft with a SW as main DPS, especially when the outstanding burst DPS of GF, or all round solid DPS of GWF, still exists.


    So I'd like to propose some small changes to the Fury Feat line of SW Hellbringer paragon and some Powers in order to bring it up to standard with the rest of the DPS classes, especially seeing as the description of this class is "You want to deal damage."

    Current Change list:

    Firstly, unlike GFs and GWFs SW abilities still don't all crit. Therefore my first change would be to Creeping Death
    - Enable this feat's DoT effect to crit.
    Another issue with the DoT of this feat is, well, it's a bit slow. In competitive DPS dungeons a GWF or GF is going to be pushing the 100-300k damage instantly with at-wills whereas warlocks are having to wait a fantastic 1.5 odd seconds between ticks of the DoT.
    - Accelerate the ticks of this DoT, I honestly couldn't tell you how much this should be accelerated by because Crit will change the numbers. But i'd start with 1.2¬0.8 seconds and see how that goes.
    - (Personally if I were coding this specific feat I would have the DoT tick speed increased for every stack of creeping death.)

    The power Killing Flames seems to be on a really crazy DPS multiplier as the target's health decreases, but is a pee shooter when the target is at 50% HP of more.
    - Flatten out the curve of this power so it doesn't go completely overboard on damage when targets have very little HP and increase the damage it does to targets above 50% HP.
    - At the moment it's doing between 700k¬1.5mil on my own buffs as the target approaches 1% HP. Then goes ahead and deals between 90k-150k any other time.

    9 times out of 10 in Neverwinter these days you're facing enemies that are CC resistant.
    This sort of puts Hadar's Grasp totally out of range for boss fights and actually most situations. So the proposed change is:
    - If the target is CC immune the target takes the full damage of this power instantly, cooldown is reduced by [Rank 1/2/3/4 (1s/2s/3s/4s)]
    - This effect should not work in PvP including the cooldown reduction
    - Tooltip should now read: "You lift your foe into the air, dealing damage to them over time and stunning them. If your foe is CC resistant, deal this power's damage instantly and reduce the cooldown by 1s. (Does not affect CC resistant targets in PvP)".
    This power's animation is also so damn CLUNCKY.
    - Animation speed increased by a factor of 1.5x

    *Edit 1
    One of the things I see most commonly when browsing other suggested buffs for SW is that the class itself has relatively few self-buffs or at least none that can stack.
    My suggestion to help with this would be yet another change to Creeping Death.
    - For each stack you deal an additional 1% damage to the target.
    Now on reading that myself it seems a little overpowered, especially vs bosses, but let's all be honest here and say that right now SW needs a little overpowered.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm hoping these changes will help put SW near Tier 1 for HDPS.

    If you have any other suggestions, or think some of these changes are a little overpowered, do let me know in the comments.

    #MakingSWGreatAgain...Again

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    if they do that to hadars gasp they should give every crit power(dailys/at wils/feats) the ability to always fill spark bar on crit hits..that way we dont have to relay on bova or hadars gasp or a weapon damage enchant for that matter
    when you look at dps you should refere to soulbinder...the hellbringer should be more party focused with the ability to do dps to some extent

    i might add the current content is not bad for a sw soulbinder to play the dps role with 4x support(yes im excluding the effectivenss bug because you dont need it to do sub 13min tong runs) but as you mentioned the new dungeon..buffing sws dps will help there alot..cause the hp those bosses have..god cancer for us
  • mirajanesitrimirajanesitri Posts: 32Member Arc User
    might aslo add a gwf friend of mine do ravenloft 30min with pure buffers...i do it 40min with pure buffers but they are not that wonderfull compare to his party....so all im saying is not to overpower sw to much..and yes this gwf is not a pushover he can 1 fase orcus with only buffers no dps gf rubish
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,139Member Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Looks like even Hellbringer SW and CW´s did Orcus one-phase-kills in Tong on PC following google, at least in mod 13.
    It all depends on your buffer-team in the end (GF/buffhunter-devo-2xDC).
    I think the warlock is not in the right spot since long, concerning the striker role.
    Atm every class, played by a skilled player, fills that role better somehow, CW is maybe on par I´d say.

    Honestly I did not meat any Soulbinder in mod 14 (running my DC in about 200 codg´s) who did compareable dps than those other classes by running SB and skipping that effect.-bug in tong/codg.
    Maybe due to the fact that near noone runs his warlock as a striker these days and the number of stuffed locks is pretty small in generell.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    @schietindebux

    The thing with SW in that video is that it had the dps exploit + a top tier dps GF assisting with burning the boss + good buffers.


    @ibz4ez#9773

    Killing Flames is a joke indeed, min damage is nearly 3 times lower than max damage and the latter is only reached when the fight is almost nearing its end (enemy at 24.99% hp) and it's weak compared to those of other strikers because our damages scales worse (almost no self-buffs), we are the only class with one of our relevant encounter powers having such flat out insulting limitations @balanced#2849


    As for your suggestions and even though Fury is the main dps spec, making Creeping Death a self-buff mechanic leaves Damnation and Temptation out of play there, our Class Features and feats need to be changed to actual buffs (not debuffs!) Now you could argue @balanced#2849 could change CD from being a slow dot (as it is now) to become a large damage multiplier.

    Balanced, hopefully you know Flames of Empowerment is a debuff, not a buff, so merely increasing its effectiveness by a few % is not a solution to address this underperforming Class Feature, it needs to be true +% damage increase, other passive powers and feats should be given this treatment as well, for example Damnation tree is very lacking, feats (and capstone) need to be reworked to provide large damage bonuses for both the puppet and the warlock.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,139Member Arc User
    edited June 2018

    @schietindebux



    The thing with SW in that video is that it had the dps exploit + a top tier dps GF assisting with burning the boss + good buffers.





    @ibz4ez#9773



    Killing Flames is a joke indeed, min damage is nearly 3 times lower than max damage and the latter is only reached when the fight is almost nearing its end (enemy at 24.99% hp) and it's weak compared to those of other strikers because our damages scales worse (almost no self-buffs), we are the only class with one of our relevant encounter powers having such flat out insulting limitations @balanced#2849





    As for your suggestions and even though Fury is the main dps spec, making Creeping Death a self-buff mechanic leaves Damnation and Temptation out of play there, our Class Features and feats need to be changed to actual buffs (not debuffs!) Now you could argue @balanced#2849 could change CD from being a slow dot (as it is now) to become a large damage multiplier.



    Balanced, hopefully you know Flames of Empowerment is a debuff, not a buff, so merely increasing its effectiveness by a few % is not a solution to address this underperforming Class Feature, it needs to be true +% damage increase, other passive powers and feats should be given this treatment as well, for example Damnation tree is very lacking, feats (and capstone) need to be reworked to provide large damage bonuses for both the puppet and the warlock.

    I did that calculation about KF vs a fully buffed Griffon from a GF.... :) nothing else to say.
    I think GWF, GF and TR are capable to hit 100 mio+ with IBS, GW, SoD. You need to be lucky and the boss near dead but won´t get in range f those classes anyway.
    KF is a joke and since i do not run Soulbinder, due to the fact that the circumstances are not given in 99% , I have to run HB and use the options cryptic gave us -> bugs.
    Running a striker, I do better using HG+WB+HR and optimise my AP gain and Daily frequence by running Sigil of Devoted.
    I can´t wait 2 hours to get a setup that favours a Soulbinder with a crystal doing 1 phase or 2 phase kills, since you need "special friends" to do so, otherwise SB mostly sucks vs HB in a random group.
  • darkan#3756 darkan Posts: 141Member Arc User
    SW right now need rework SB and retweak damnation path and basic powers if u not use PoP losses mouch damage that mean PoP is needed for you rotation and SB not have power can buff that way SB need at least one own power that selfbuff and make more basic powers selfbuff. The last feat of damnation is ridiculous not represent a increase of your damage substancial compared with creeping death and feats not represent none interaction with your powers compared with Temptation. The playstyle for damnation suppos based in direct damage and effects debuff with synergy curses but not have feats make this bind. I test SB fury without orcus set currently like a main DPS and 2DC/GF/OP and time marked when orcus finished was 18 min while damnation HB with orcus set was 15 min and i see GWF and TR no longer more this set bonus intead carried masterwork for make dps if even HR popular build is not carried set artiffact bonus while SW still depend of his gear more than others class DPS because not have enought own powers wich effect increase own damage and unperformed feats
  • naoqueroforumnaoqueroforum Posts: 225Member Arc User

    @schietindebux



    The thing with SW in that video is that it had the dps exploit + a top tier dps GF assisting with burning the boss + good buffers.





    @ibz4ez#9773



    Killing Flames is a joke indeed, min damage is nearly 3 times lower than max damage and the latter is only reached when the fight is almost nearing its end (enemy at 24.99% hp) and it's weak compared to those of other strikers because our damages scales worse (almost no self-buffs), we are the only class with one of our relevant encounter powers having such flat out insulting limitations @balanced#2849





    As for your suggestions and even though Fury is the main dps spec, making Creeping Death a self-buff mechanic leaves Damnation and Temptation out of play there, our Class Features and feats need to be changed to actual buffs (not debuffs!) Now you could argue @balanced#2849 could change CD from being a slow dot (as it is now) to become a large damage multiplier.



    Balanced, hopefully you know Flames of Empowerment is a debuff, not a buff, so merely increasing its effectiveness by a few % is not a solution to address this underperforming Class Feature, it needs to be true +% damage increase, other passive powers and feats should be given this treatment as well, for example Damnation tree is very lacking, feats (and capstone) need to be reworked to provide large damage bonuses for both the puppet and the warlock.

    I wouldn't trust every dev understands the difference between buffs and debuffs given an unforgettable change to hadar's grasp during mod 10.

    Self debuffs are a really stupid thing that sw provides. Infernal wrath, despite being a debuff is at least instance wide. Things like darkness for example, "10%" extra damage, but it's a personal debuff, making it pointless pve wise at least. In the case of darkness though I would argue the change should be from being personal to being party wide, not from debuff to buff. But things like flames of empowerment, a personal debuff, really should change to personal buff.

    Still, it seems that some devs really underestimate how much of an improvement it is to change all of our self-debuffs into self buffs.
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,757Member Arc User
    I would love for them to fix the Brood of Hadar DPS efficiency bug so as to establish a consistent baseline for damage and at the same time make some of the suggested fixes to increase the number/quality of +% personal damage buffs for the DPS trees and leave the major focus on debuffs to the Temptation spec.

    Having Damnation be functional would be a nice bonus so as to present an alternative to Fury DPS, but I suspect they would need to majorly overhaul the tree and possibly the entire Soul Puppet mechanic to make it viable.

    Finally, I would like to see some of the same personal buff fixes applied to CW so that the boss performance gap between magical Strikers and the rest of the field can be reduced. SW and CW are both fully capable of being main DPS, but they should really be comparable at least to GWF if not to burst specialists like GF, TR or HR. The fact that a tank class has burst damage enough to outperform most of the actual DPS classes in the game is an ongoing issue, and the magic Strikers don't deserve a huge damage cut due to their ranged abilities since all-ranged gameplay is not a remotely viable option.

    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,139Member Arc User
    edited July 2018
    vorphied said:

    SW and CW are both fully capable of being main DPS, but they should really be comparable at least to GWF if not to burst specialists like GF, TR or HR. The fact that a tank class has burst damage enough to outperform most of the actual DPS classes in the game is an ongoing issue, and the magic Strikers don't deserve a huge damage cut due to their ranged abilities since all-ranged gameplay is not a remotely viable option.

    Soulbinder should be top dps compareable to TR, Hellbringer slightly behind being able to buff the hole team with pop/debuff.
    SB>HB (both in the end) need a significant selfbuff (class feature at best) and Soul Scorch might get toned down (the Dot) to improve the burst aspect.
    I would prefer more burst for the SW anyway, since DOT´s suck in so many ways in this game.

    Compareable at least to GWF (?..that´s a burst class) same as GF is, who should not be able to be in range of a pure striker like SW at all.
    I met dps CW´s in mod 13+14 who were on par with a "buglock", wich indicates that CW´s are not that bad as allways mentioned in terms of dps, it´s all about your build and maybe the ability to master that class also.
    TR is the best DOT class and best focusdamage ingame (SoD) I´d say, wich is ok, since that class is squishy and seems to be more difficult to master.
    I did not group with any GWF, GF or Hunter so far, that was able to overcome actual TR-dps. But maybe it´s only because good GWF (same as dps GF ) are rare.
    Atm i avoid to run with any GWF in CR. If I group with a TR I am relaxed, Hunter ok, allready run with a dps CW... but GWF, the majority is too bad in this game, pressing all keys at once maybe ? I don´t know, a dying former fotm class, time to leave that ship :)
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,757Member Arc User
    edited July 2018

    vorphied said:

    SW and CW are both fully capable of being main DPS, but they should really be comparable at least to GWF if not to burst specialists like GF, TR or HR. The fact that a tank class has burst damage enough to outperform most of the actual DPS classes in the game is an ongoing issue, and the magic Strikers don't deserve a huge damage cut due to their ranged abilities since all-ranged gameplay is not a remotely viable option.

    Soulbinder should be top dps compareable to TR, Hellbringer slightly behind being able to buff the hole team with pop/debuff.
    SB>HB (both in the end) need a significant selfbuff (class feature at best) and Soul Scorch might get toned down (the Dot) to improve the burst aspect.
    I would prefer more burst for the SW anyway, since DOT´s suck in so many ways in this game.

    Compareable at least to GWF (?..that´s a burst class) same as GF is, who should not be able to be in range of a pure striker like SW at all.
    I met dps CW´s in mod 13+14 who were on par with a "buglock", wich indicates that CW´s are not that bad as allways mentioned in terms of dps, it´s all about your build and maybe the ability to master that class also.
    TR is the best DOT class and best focusdamage ingame (SoD) I´d say, wich is ok, since that class is squishy and seems to be more difficult to master.
    I did not group with any GWF, GF or Hunter so far, that was able to overcome actual TR-dps. But maybe it´s only because good GWF (same as dps GF ) are rare.
    Atm i avoid to run with any GWF in CR. If I group with a TR I am relaxed, Hunter ok, allready run with a dps CW... but GWF, the majority is too bad in this game, pressing all keys at once maybe ? I don´t know, a dying former fotm class, time to leave that ship :)
    GWF is high, consistent damage; not burst in the sense that the other non-magical DPS and GF can be.

    CW is indeed far more viable as DPS than most believe, but it still requires far more investment and skill to compete with other non-magical DPS, in which case the CW will still fall behind where skill and equipment are comparable.

    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
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    NIGHTSWATCH
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  • darkan#3756 darkan Posts: 141Member Arc User
    edited July 2018
    I agree @vorphied but the SW have a common problem the best of your powers dealt a very wide range damage killing flames soul puppet and lesser curse when feated with scornful curse they are get inexactly damage for exemple tested damnation tree in dummys alone whitout buffs and mínimum damage was 28915 and then tested in party and mínimum damage was 12152 and the weapon damage spirit fire have same problem some times dealt less damage than 75% weapon damage buffed https://imgur.com/a/HM9JjBl
  • hrakhhrakh Posts: 45Member Arc User

    With my 17k sw i have no problem completing CR in 20-30mins. The main thing is the buffers/debuffers if they do a good job, this applies for all classes ofcourse.
    Hellbringer is more of a 'aoe' cleaner but lacks compared to other aoe heavies such as cw/gwf.
    Soul Binder is your single target sweeper.

    The hdps is there, if you can't find it i suggest you look more in depth before suggesting SW isn't HDPS.
    #WhatIsSoulScorch

    So, beyond stroking your ego and perpetuating your personal feelings of superiority, what does your message accomplish? Or add to this debate? Honestly curious...
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,757Member Arc User
    Overlooking the sidebar for the moment, the actual issue, IMO, is in bringing SW (and CW) up to par with other DPS and GF.

    SW can absolutely be HDPS, no question. If you factor out DPS bug/exploit, SW could use some further attention to make it more competitive and provide for more than one viable DPS tree.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • hrakhhrakh Posts: 45Member Arc User


    If a common pleb like me can do it so can anyone else.
    Also I was trying to point out that the HDPS is nothing without the other 4 members. Dungeons aren't a solo effort.

    I can ask you the same thing, apart from pointing out my self stroking in order to make you feel superior to someone you claim wants to feel superior, what did your message accomplish?

    Now if you had said THAT, it would still have been of limited, but at least some, use. And it would have been a better veiled version of "you're doing it wrong, I am doing it right". I am fine with ego, but cannot stand lack of creativity when presenting it. And no, I do not feel superior, i AM superior :) (irony, its a thing)

    Sure, under the right circumstances SW can be HDPS, but those circumstances are either likely unintended (bug/exploit) or a lot of work for all party members involved to create. Other DPS (H or otherwise) do not require that much work, I would go as far as to state that compared to getting HDPS from an SW, most other DPS classes can just roll their face across the keyboard and get better results. And that is the state of the SW class that needs to be addressed.

    And apart from me and you people are doing a pretty good job of outlining the details of the underlying flaws.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,139Member Arc User
    edited July 2018

    With my 17k sw i have no problem completing CR in 20-30mins. The main thing is the buffers/debuffers if they do a good job, this applies for all classes ofcourse.
    Hellbringer is more of a 'aoe' cleaner but lacks compared to other aoe heavies such as cw/gwf.
    Soul Binder is your single target sweeper.

    The hdps is there, if you can't find it i suggest you look more in depth before suggesting SW isn't HDPS.
    #WhatIsSoulScorch

    hrakh said:

    With my 17k sw i have no problem completing CR in 20-30mins. The main thing is the buffers/debuffers if they do a good job, this applies for all classes ofcourse.
    Hellbringer is more of a 'aoe' cleaner but lacks compared to other aoe heavies such as cw/gwf.
    Soul Binder is your single target sweeper.

    The hdps is there, if you can't find it i suggest you look more in depth before suggesting SW isn't HDPS.
    #WhatIsSoulScorch

    So, beyond stroking your ego and perpetuating your personal feelings of superiority, what does your message accomplish? Or add to this debate? Honestly curious...
    If a common pleb like me can do it so can anyone else.
    Also I was trying to point out that the HDPS is nothing without the other 4 members. Dungeons aren't a solo effort.

    I can ask you the same thing, apart from pointing out my self stroking in order to make you feel superior to someone you claim wants to feel superior, what did your message accomplish?
    Every class can be "hdps" meeting the right setup of buffer, that´s no argument at all in this discussion. It´s not you that clears that dungeon in 20min, it´s your pretty good team of supporter who do the work, SW is not a mystery to play.
    Do some random runs and maybe you get down on earth.
    When did you read " lfm hdps, warlock or TR please?" anyone? This indicates the state of a class more than any words could do.
    And even a slightly arrogant comment, claiming "every pleb with some skill should be able to be hdps-lock" can´t change a thing about it.

    There are near no warlocks running endcontent as striker, some are and doing fine. But those who does, run with a "bugged setup", wich nearly doubles effectivness of HR, HG, WB the capstone and more. 70%+ of the overall focusdamage bugged !
    The number of competetive SB tend to zero and even meeting one of them, you have to recognize ... they also cheat, using BoH combined with SS creating double effectivness from that encounter, the following DOT, the associated Creeping Death proc, and more.
    So if a big part of the dealt damage is "faked-dps" at 400-500%+ effectiveness it´s not a good position and a poor argument to me.

    You are obviously Scorpione from Italy on PC/Dragon server. I met harder hitting striker (TR/GF/GWF/Hunter) so far on PC , and those dish out legit dps, that´s what I talk of.
    I´d like to see your SB in comparison to a TR like Resenberg (PC), wich I found to be a pretty good player, him running also random.
    I can melt any boss with a "HB-Buglock", Bugbinder is not the only way, and I am equal or near equal to a Hunter/GF/GWF doing so, TR is ahead all of them atm, but maybe you are right and I am wrong and Warlock needs no attention at all.
    There allready were player "onephasing" 1. Boss tong with HB and a bunch of good buffer ... but that´s fake dps and we want a fix + a buff.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • darkan#3756 darkan Posts: 141Member Arc User
    @scorpioneitaa damnation not is usless for all with correct feats on damnation path can get finish a TONG in 23 min with all party buff/debuff and if even still underperforming feats and weapon damage plgued buggs like alredy are. But need fixed bugss and need maybe more retweak than fury for get competitive damage agnist others any class DPS The description class on charácter creation say is damage dealer that case any new player hope have at least 2 playstyles for choose DPS
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,757Member Arc User
    Side question, since we're talking more about bugs impacting SW gameplay:

    Is there a way to use BoH normally without accidentally causing the increased DPS bug? It's difficult to compare the impact of different build choices when damage is completely skewed.

    Also I prefer not to become accustomed to a bug like that when it really should be fixed. I'm just hoping at this point that the fact that they haven't yet fixed it is because they plan to do so at the same time they implement more tweaks.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • spidey#3367 spidey Posts: 399Member Arc User
    Nice SW @bellkazi
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,139Member Arc User
    edited July 2018
    vorphied said:

    Side question, since we're talking more about bugs impacting SW gameplay:

    Is there a way to use BoH normally without accidentally causing the increased DPS bug? It's difficult to compare the impact of different build choices when damage is completely skewed.

    Also I prefer not to become accustomed to a bug like that when it really should be fixed. I'm just hoping at this point that the fact that they haven't yet fixed it is because they plan to do so at the same time they implement more tweaks.

    AS far as I know it only works in Tong, Codg, CR (did not run ACT so far).
    You can skip BoH or avoid to use powers like Hellish Rebuke, Soul Scorch, Warlocks Bargain and Hadar Grasp.
    Every associated Creeping death proc and every Lesser Curse is also bugged.
    I do not understand why this is happening tbh, but ACT shows up with effectiveness 500%+ in ordinary buffruns.
    Hellbringer can be hdps like that. Soulbinder is also bugged, but it depends more on your timing how much dps you can pull out that bug as Soulbinder.
    A fix will lead to a sifnificant dps drop for HB and for SB also but not that much I guess.
    Warlock is bugged since the beginning, even after endless fixes and reworks the class still relies to bugs , you have to deal with it (I do) or simply switch to another class, looks like TR is the upcoming champion.
    So if you want to play legit the only option is to run a Hellbringer-templock without BoH and as dps the "Tab-machine" without BoH -> FoP or IS is also an option, as long as you enter endcontent. But doing so you are inferior to other striker imo.
    I dislike the mechanic, "tabbing" your way all through dungeons, since it´s controverse killing your best selfbuff, reapplying it, killing it, reapplying it and so on -taht´s Soulbinder in short- , personal taste.

    My personal opinion about legit or not in this game: If core mechanics and powers are bugged for years I take them as WAI, I can´t wait another 4 years to play a class legit, even though I say "fix it and buff it"... but we all know how slow things get addressed, except last SoD patch. Sometimes you get a fix and the buff waits for another 2 years.
    Running with a TR before fix , noone said: "You should not play that class until SoD got fixed" or "avoid stealth to prevent capstone from proccing, wait for fix", everyone said "enjoy until it´s over", since otherwise there is no need for other striker-classes in the game any more.
    As long as it lasted, the hole group grinded and abused that bug in codg, since it just speeded things up.
    If I enter Codg and someone write, "yeah, buglock-power" and we end up in melting that endboss, everyone is ok with it, noone cries.
    A player that is capable to run empowered FF and empowered Exalt at once is more or less "talented" in my eyes, since he "mastered" that bug, many fail doing so. Honestly most player, especially the ones that writes in chat "I can handle it" only got a big mouth and normally he can´t handle it 24/7, since it´s a pain in the ...
    But about those who do, I don´t see the difference between him and a GF that dishes out constant 100mio+ GW or a TR dealing 300mio+SoD, same category, they do good.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • silence1xsilence1x Posts: 1,489Member Arc User
    Just a thought - if Paingiver was removed, would DPS chasing still be a thing? Honest question, not judging. I think the SW does need some adjustments but, without a metric to use, would we be as adamant about said adjustments being done sooner rather than later?
    I aim to misbehave
  • yirarax#1742 yirarax Posts: 27Member Arc User
    silence1x said:

    Just a thought - if Paingiver was removed, would DPS chasing still be a thing? Honest question, not judging. I think the SW does need some adjustments but, without a metric to use, would we be as adamant about said adjustments being done sooner rather than later?

    I'd guess the great mass would not, though we have tools like ACT to measure the exact values. It's not even an issue about paingiver though, that just helps you measure up to others. The overall run time is more important, since the health of enemies should not change, so faster time equals more dps.
  • ibz4ez#9773 ibz4ez Posts: 117Member Arc User
    Well this thread exploded rather unexpectedly. Thank you all very much for such intuitive responses. I've just got back from ignoring this game and I'll read over comments and reply soon - update to the changelist expected soon as well.
  • chimeraxchimerax Posts: 170Member Arc User
    I just want our Cast time/Windup on abilities reduced, I have died a few times because I cast something, only to be in a red area and can't move because the spell is still casting.
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Posts: 262Member Arc User
    edited July 2018


    If I enter Codg and someone write, "yeah, buglock-power" and we end up in melting that endboss, everyone is ok with it, noone cries.

    It was me expressing my joy :D
    I enjoy seeing SWs being invited as HDPS.

  • spidey#3367 spidey Posts: 399Member Arc User

    ... but that´s fake dps and we want a fix + a buff.

    /sign!!!
    10000%
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,956Member Arc User
    I run with a SW all the time. His rotation prior to mod 13 was and is the same as the one causing SW to produce massive damage from a bug/glitch. Prior to mod 13 hitting PS4 my CW and his SW were similar in damage in most content. Since the Mod 13 he is now full of himself thinking he is the best thing since the wheel was invented.

    As for content where the bug does work... All content. The one thing we did learn is that the SW bug tends to be most effective on single targets and the longer the fight the better the damage produced by a SW.

    The devs need to fix this so any SW thinking that they are a god as DPS can come back to reality.

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