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[Mod 12b./13] Slyef's all-round guide to SW

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  • vincentr6669vincentr6669 Posts: 150Member Arc User
    edited March 22
    As far my little knowledge of SW goes this seems a nice guide overall.

    Just pointing out that you don't have descriptions for Dark Spiral at-will and Flame of Pleghetos daily.

    You also called the Deadly Curse class feature "Brutal Curse" which is wrong, Brutal Curse is a feat from Fury tree. Deadly deals damage each time Curse is applied and Brutal boosts your Curse debuff (from 20% to 30% if i'm not mistaken).

    When you talk about Encounters, more specifically about PoP you say that on mod 13 there is a bug of PoP proccing Lesser Curse, but i guess that's just All-Consuming Curse proccing now that PoP can crit.

    I have a question: on the Temptation HB you went with 10 feat points on Damnation to get the feat that keeps your PoP buffs even after you move out of it. Wouldn't be better to go 15 feat points on Fury to get Infernal Wrath (Lesser Curse applies a 5% debuff on enemies)? In this case you take away 5 points from Compounded Soul. This seems more fitting to the "buffing/debuffing" role of Warlock, but the Warlock and his/her allies should stay inside of PoP.
  • dairyzeusdairyzeus Posts: 228Member Arc User
    I think your math is a little off in the combat advantage section:

    (15 + 14 + 9) * 1.1 = 41.8

    instead of the 52.8 you have listed.

    Great guide I'll probably finish reading it tomorrow, just wanted to throw that out their quick.

  • slyef#6396 slyef Posts: 31Member Arc User
    edited March 22
    Yup there are some mistakes with Brutal / Deadly curse (got the name mixed up in there), Thank you for pointing that out.

    About the Pop, yes it comes from ACC and its new ability to crit, but the actual bug is, YOU DON'T NEED it slotted (just to learn it).
    I plan to add a description for Flames daily eventually, but I don't feel like adding Dark Spiral Aura, as I don't use it at all. (But maybe some SW will come in and tell me it is awesome for whatever reason, and that I will add it to the list)

    On your question about feat choice I believe going 10 points in Damnation is still the better choice.
    PoP is by far your better team-buffing tool (after Soul Bonding), so you have to make sure your party members always benefit from it. On tank and spank boss fights you probably don't need Pot9H and Infernal Wrath is a decent choice, but the gain is so small compared to what you would lose in almost every other situation it is not worth it. But you can take points out of Compounded soul anyway.
    dairyzeus said:

    I think your math is a little off in the combat advantage section:

    (15 + 14 + 9) * 1.1 = 41.8

    instead of the 52.8 you have listed.

    Great guide I'll probably finish reading it tomorrow, just wanted to throw that out their quick.

    Silly me :D
  • etelgrinetelgrin Posts: 1,501Member Arc User
    Solid enough to give basic understanding of the class and possible variants. Thanks for posting!

    Pug Panther - PvP SW

    Youtube Channel
    Scourge Warlock Haven - Build Videos - PvP Content - Other Features.

    R.I.P
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Posts: 3,008Member Arc User

    va8Ru.gif
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Posts: 7Member Arc User
    Hey @slyef#6396 ,
    Gj bro, finally a well written and complete overview on SW (blame on all the busy/lazy of us that still didn't wrote one xD ), smth i really suggest to read any1, both nub and exped, a solid basys for constructive criticism and to correct many of the mistakes I'm seeing in pugging.
    I kinda agree 100% what you posted, just like to add some consideration:
    - Gear: as feet piece, I use to run Primal on trash, switching to boots of the willed on bosses, both to close the ArPen gap and as primal bonus is pretty poor in a 1-man fight. That's a really good add on HB, as HR is being nicely buffed;
    - WE: I made some rough test and, as I was convinced Vorp was slightly better than Fey in m13 on HB; I can confirm your impression that the fixes / buffs seems to have reverted the response in an high-end build/group;
    - Temptlock: As suggestion to fill the w/e spot in encounter rotation: WB (great heals in a DoT build), with WS (dmg debuff in low runs and hard hitting bosses), HG (in a proc-build with lightning) and KF (mainly for AP gain) as nice options. In the w/e paragon: Dark's one Blessing for ppl that wants to multiclass, as with guild boons allows u to reach 50%+ LS with a full dps gear (so more heals too); Shadow walk or FoE as further options, but TBH there's not a realy best option or 2nd slot;
    - Feats: I like to get 4/5 on rentless curse with 1/5 on parting blasphemy. Feat is quite unstable, but sometimes the proc has nice effects. IDK if bugged, but offering to the prisoners used to be a +5% dmg, sure u need to kill a coursed target to proc, but in a high-debuff pty may be better than the two t3 feats, mainly on AoE and against bosses with spawns.
    See you in game,
    Ram.
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 756Member Arc User
    @slyef#6396

    Great guide!

    @ramesh84

    You don't need 50%+ LS as templock, that's far too much. Mine (still in mod 12b mind you) has less than 20% and has no problem keeping teammates at max hp (unless they get 1 shotted) and I run full dps gear. You're much better off with hp boon as well, more survability and Aura of Courage damage (which HG and DT can multiproc).
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 3,473Member Arc User
    edited March 28
    Nice guide and some good general infos carried together, lot´s of work , thy.

    I run DR-boon and a modified PVP setup in CoDG to be more tanky and to lower my costs on scrolls :)
    40% LS seems to be enough, never tried 20% though.
    I also run Warlocks Bargain for the healing component beside PoP and DT, but @ramesh84 reminds me to test Wraith Shadow

    Btw , did anyone check that debuff lately ?
    In all my tests month ago on preview in Well of dragons, I could not get the prove for that debuff to work.
    At least those elite mobs had no lowered effectivenes or lowered damage against me (act), and somehow that debuff/icon vanished infight after 1-2 seconds.
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Posts: 7Member Arc User

    I run DR-boon and a modified PVP setup in CoDG to be more tanky and to lower my costs on scrolls :)
    40% LS seems to be enough, never tried 20% though.

    Did some (very) rough math and actually in some conditions as [silly mode: on] u run with an OP [silly mode: OFF] and AoC is more than 10% of overall dmg (easy to get for temptation), 20% LS may be give more returns than 40%+. But this is math and, as usual, optimal setup is personal/situational. I totally agree with u: tankiness is an important variable to consider too.

    I also run Warlocks Bargain for the healing component beside PoP and DT, but @ramesh84 reminds me to test Wraith Shadow
    Btw , did anyone check that debuff lately ?
    In all my tests month ago on preview in Well of dragons, I could not get the prove for that debuff to work.
    At least those elite mobs had no lowered effectivenes or lowered damage against me (act), and somehow that debuff/icon vanished infight after 1-2 seconds.

    TBH as I heard/saw WB healing the atropal in acerack phase, I slotted once WS in cradle and it seemed to work fine. Did some dumb/fast/easy tests today against a mob in preview, here the result:
    warding course (r3): 4118 - 4077 = 99,00%
    Wraith Shadow (r3): 3796 - 3758 = 99,00%
    WC+WS: 3571 - 3535 = 98,99%
    ofc if u recast will trigger immobilize effect + course consume, and take full dmg :3

  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 3,473Member Arc User
    Thy, tested it vs some bosses in dreadring and the basedamage got lowered by WS, looks like working on live.
    Thought it´s a 30% debuff, numbers look lower somehow.
  • darkan#3756 darkan Posts: 118Member Arc User
    i see some sw carried new artifact equip from masterwork III necke/waist seems good option for get perma dailly but for dps is a god idea ?
  • slyef#6396 slyef Posts: 31Member Arc User

    i see some sw carried new artifact equip from masterwork III necke/waist seems good option for get perma dailly but for dps is a god idea ?

    For DPS, Orcus Remains BiS.

    1) Extra stats can't compare to Orcus set damage buff on Boss fights.
    2) The only belt that gives Constitution (+% Damage for a SW) does not have dps stats, and Charisma isn't particularly interesting if you manage to Cap Crit and have high Crit+CA (which is not hard to accomplish on a SW).

  • vincentr6669vincentr6669 Posts: 150Member Arc User
    Does PoP buff your Soul Puppet and companions too? Or only the Warlock and other players?
  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Posts: 152Member Arc User
    I'll start recommending people to this. Glad to see another 30+ page guide. Welcome to the club.
    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • slyef#6396 slyef Posts: 31Member Arc User

    Does PoP buff your Soul Puppet and companions too? Or only the Warlock and other players?

    PoP doesn't buff any of them directly. However if you get the PoP buff on yourself, the puppet will benefit from it

    @ramesh84 Nice catch on the boots which should be decent on HB (But aren't enduring boots better ? I just don't like them on SB but if people can use them, they are very good on bosses), I will probably add it to the guide.

    As for Templock 3rd encounter, It is up to personal choice (I suggest using a single target encounter such as KF/HG/WB to have better heal), and I run KF most of the time. However with a decently geared toon it is hard to see the difference as you already heal too much, so I will have to test this with a low IL Templock to see how it goes.
  • zekehubriszekehubris Posts: 69Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    "01/04/2018 : Removed Armor of Quick recovery (no crazy CD reset for us sadly)"

    Would you mind explaining this statement?
  • roadkill#6177 roadkill Posts: 58Member Arc User
    Please, who made the original mount website? And who updated it?
  • adamantineangeladamantineangel Posts: 35Member Arc User
    Questions:

    1.) If this Warlock build heals team-mates with every successful hit on an enemy, shouldn't the Lostmauth set and the Owlbear Cub be used in the build to generate guaranteed 2x hits on every attack, which in theory would mean 2x heals from every attack?

    2.) If question 1 actually works, is there anything else available in Neverwinter that can also generate multiple hits per attack (armor, rings, mounts, etc.)?
  • enigmaticenigma#4935 enigmaticenigma Posts: 10Member Arc User
    When you explain Harrowstorm and Blades of Vanquished Armies in the encounters section, you don't mention the 10% damage buff/debuff they apply to enemies if feated in the Temptation tree. As far as I'm aware it affects only the SW, not the whole party, but possibly still worth mentioning?
  • slyef#6396 slyef Posts: 31Member Arc User
    edited April 18

    "01/04/2018 : Removed Armor of Quick recovery (no crazy CD reset for us sadly)"

    Would you mind explaining this statement?

    Given how that the Owlbear used to proc on all PoP targets even with the cooldown, I kinda thought it miiiight have a similar functionment with the Armor. It doesn't and I haven't noticed anything particular with it. And I have been hearing some reports that it doesn't even work as intended in the tooltip. Until I get more info on it and do some more testing (I have been poking with in on preview lately), I can't really recommend it.

    Please, who made the original mount website? And who updated it?

    Don't remember who originally did it, but Bethel @kacezet is the one who updated it given that newly released mounts were not included

    Questions:

    1.) If this Warlock build heals team-mates with every successful hit on an enemy, shouldn't the Lostmauth set and the Owlbear Cub be used in the build to generate guaranteed 2x hits on every attack, which in theory would mean 2x heals from every attack?

    2.) If question 1 actually works, is there anything else available in Neverwinter that can also generate multiple hits per attack (armor, rings, mounts, etc.)?

    On your first question, this isn't how it works, sorry if my wording is confusing. The closest analogy you can get with Soul Bonding Healing is thinking as if your lifesteal (not based on chance like actual lifesteal though) affects allies

    If you want to increase your healing you have two options, and you eventually want to do both
    1) Increase your lifesteal (It should be above 20% but no need to shoot over 50%)
    2) Increase your dps (via standard means, get your armorpen cap, your crit and your power and dps-y gear)

    And you have to continuously deal damage if you want to continuously heal (which brings some issues).
    Keep in mind that AoE powers will heal for less, so if you want to maximize heal I would just take Killing Flames (for burst) or Warlock's Bargain (for the DoT, which means continous healing) as 3rd encounter.

    The owlbearcub used to be good since it was a major part of HB SW damage (and on top of that it was considered single target, even on PoP, so it didn't suffer from the 33% healing penalty), but now, given how expensive it is and that it becomes useless once you have a good amount of crit, there is no reason to invest in it

    When you explain Harrowstorm and Blades of Vanquished Armies in the encounters section, you don't mention the 10% damage buff/debuff they apply to enemies if feated in the Temptation tree. As far as I'm aware it affects only the SW, not the whole party, but possibly still worth mentioning?

    You are essentially right.
    I have never tested if myself, but according to @michela123 's sheet about debuffs that reduce enemy damage that you can find here the damage debuff affects allies as well. I kinda hoped the resistance debuff would affect ally as well, but it doesn't so I don't take the feat. And honestly, I'd rather take another encounter to deal more damage on bosses (or heal more on a lower item level toon) than to deal with these two encounters as Templock. I will maybe mention it on a later version of the guide, but for now, I am a bit lazy to do it.
  • duckntrollduckntroll Posts: 73Member Arc User
    edited April 19
    About the [Armor of Quick Recovery]

    And I have been hearing some reports that it doesn't even work as intended in the tooltip. Until I get more info on it and do some more testing (I have been poking with in on preview lately), I can't really recommend it.

    I'm on my way to get it cuz I'm wondering how much a spam-crit-build PoP+CB+FB/(BoVA) with all ~5 sec of duration and cool down) can benefit from it?
    Mathematically it sould approximatly be
    • +1/5 [1 second gain max every 5 seconds (armor cap)]
    • * 9/10 [reaching 50% critical chance and spamming 10 hit / sec (with at-will, LC, ...) --> to keep the buff active all the time. I added a 10% miss of the right second]
    • * 1/2 [in worst case that is BoVA, half the time it will occurs during the encounter effect and not during it's cool down]
    • * 2/3 [on the 3 encounters, PoP doesn't benefit from reduced cool down at all]
    • =
    • +18/300
    • =
    • +6% --> That looks quite good! Mathematically...



    About Temptation [Darkness] feat with it's
    • +10% debuff foes damage on you
    • +10% buff your dps
    I kinda hoped the resistance debuff would affect ally as well, but it doesn't so I don't take the feat. And honestly, I'd rather take another encounter to deal more damage on bosses (or heal more on a lower item level toon) than to deal with these two encounters as Templock. I will maybe mention it on a later version of the guide, but for now, I am a bit lazy to do it.

    For high/BiS level party games I agree that isn't optimal.

    However for solo play and for low/mid level party games (the vast majority) the gains of self-survivability and self-dps is clearly a good choice.


    Remark : If the healer/tank/<any role> is dead, so is the party. Therefore self-survivability shouldn't be a taboo, especially for low/mid level players reading tons of unrealted stuff provided by BiS obsessed theorycrafters...
  • slyef#6396 slyef Posts: 31Member Arc User
    edited April 20
    @duckntroll

    I won't comment on the Armor of Recovery since I have a hard time figuring out how it actually works. (Blame poor Eyesight)

    On Darkness feat, it isn't a straight 10% buff for you, it is a debuff on the enemy that only works for you, and you have to sacrifice a precious encounter slot for a low damage AoE encounter, which means much less healing overall. (Remember, high level toons will heal for too much, so this info is relevant for low/mid level players)


    It's not that I don't care about survivability. It is that SW unfortunately doesn't have strong protection tools, even though we have 6 class features centered on lifesteal/survivability, which is quite ironic.
    If you want more survivability on top of PoP/Hand of Blight/DT you can slot Warding Curse (works only for you, so it is quite selfish, and for a lower item level player, Lifesteal is more valuable to the team) or use Wraith's Shadow as 3rd encounter and not reactivate it, but again, not too great for healing.

    For a newer player, I would just take a damnation build with increased aggro feat for solo play and not a temptation one.

  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Posts: 191Member Arc User
    edited April 20



    I won't comment on the Armor of Recovery since I have a hard time figuring out how it actually works. (Blame poor Eyesight)


    I tested it a bit and it procs more with dailies: in that case, you see the cooldown decrease of your encounters (it speeds up).
    But I was not convinced and use it now as a transmute.

    Also, I have been told by a CW that it procs way more with multiproccing powers: If I had known, I would have tested it with HG or DT, to see if the CD decrease happens more often....

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