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Shadow of Demise WAI? in PvP

vordaynvordayn Posts: 906Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
edited March 15 in Player Feedback (PC)
So this happened today, 404k pre-mitigated damage down to 259k damage:



Usually it's just smoke bomb, blood bath (while invisible) then automatic shadow of demise proc.

I only recorded the last few seconds of the fight, but these back to back SoD procs for 148-214k damage.




The counters, such as stack enough HP, lose line of sight, run away fast enough, go invisible are possible, but can only be done so much, especially more so difficult when Blood Bath is back to back, while you are standing in the node skirting the red from the smoke bomb. If there is another opponent, or another TR, you will most likely be dead. You will most likely be dead anyway after a few SoD procs.


I don't exactly know what is happening, the neverwinter gamepedia tooltip states:

"While in Stealth, your Encounter powers now also add the Shadow of Demise effect to the target for 6 seconds. This effect is powered up by further damage you deal. Additionally, you generate Stealth 20% faster and no longer have your regeneration interrupted when taking damage.

Shadow of Demise: When this effect ends, its target takes Piercing Damage equal to 50% of the damage dealt to its target by the Rogue. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor."


Then the patchnotes on 26 Feb 2018:

"Shadow of Demise: This effect now only takes into account the damage dealt by the Trickster Rogue who applied it, even when several are applied at once."

I am confused as I do not take that much damage before hand which cause SoD to proc so much. For example, if it does 50% of the damage dealt done by the rogue by encounter powers while in stealth, then the 404k SoD proc above means that I should have been hit for 808k pre-mitigated damage over the 6 second period prior to the proc?

A polite few questions to the developers: What is happening here? Is this working as you intended in PvP?
Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR

Comments

  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 2,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    It's from the mane of the Manticore.. that hits 80k plus damage and multiprocs..
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  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 906Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    It's from the mane of the Manticore.. that hits 80k plus damage and multiprocs..

    The Mane of the Manticore would have been listed in the combat logs in Neverwinter or in ACT. It wasn't there.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 2,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Mmhmm
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  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 906Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 15
    What is happening (I think) is that it is calculating all the damage done, pre-mitigated, and then using that as the base for the 50% of damage that it deals.

    For example, even if I dodge, I will receive minimal damage from the encounters (which is what I was doing in the example above), but when the SoD procs, it seems to take into account the damage that would have been done.

    If so, this will bypass all damage resistances and mitigation.

    There was a patch note in Aug 2017 (timeline was prior to Feb 28 2018 patch notes):

    "Shadow of Demise now calculates its damage based on the damage dealt before the enemy's damage resistance is taken into account, and no longer benefits twice from buffs or debuffs on an enemy."


    I am not sure why it didn't seem to be as much of a problem prior to Mod 13. Is there another patch note or fix I am missing?
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 2,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    It does calculate all damage even dodges... but here's a tip... wear ambush ring aND take a few steps and sod, will do 0 damage
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    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 2,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Someone can hit you 240k damage with a lashing blade then bloodeath you ending with dazing strike and give the damage you listed. Or just one blood bath plus mane of the manticore
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    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 906Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 15

    It does calculate all damage even dodges... but here's a tip... wear ambush ring aND take a few steps and sod, will do 0 damage

    So SoD can technically happen every 6 seconds. That ring will only proc every 20 seconds, and that's if you can run 30' away from a bloodbath which follows you.

    It's something, but it won't allow you to stay in caps. It would be running away from them now :(
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 2,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 15
    With mobility 14k and 5 gadiators guile you can outrun bloodbath.. I do it, then again I am tr, so I can just stealth whenever to escape it (sab path). Maybe get mane of the manticore and abuse them back. You would never believe how many people pm me cussing me nlout for not being executioner....
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    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 2,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Every class has something that will one hit wonder you every 10 seconds or so...
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  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 906Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    macjae said:



    It was incredibly broken in module 12 too. They just made it a lot worse with their module 13 change. Since they didn't fix it and apparently aren't fixing it now, the conclusion is likely that they intend for PvP to be unplayable for anyone but TRs.

    You are correct that it does damage its damage even if the TR doesn't even hit you to begin with. There are ways to avoid it, but every other class shouldn't have to jump through hoops using things like Shadowclad or Ambush Rings to avoid one specific class mechanic of one class.

    I took a break from the game in august until earlier this year. Guess I missed the drama. Did a search though, and yeah the problems stem back from August last year, and was still a problem in October.

    @rgutscheradev mentioned it was a problem in August, and said it was a response to SoD previously double dipping debuffs, so they changed that. Seems like a lot of problems and headaches occur with legacy coding.

    The TR fixes in Feb this year also perhaps somehow increased its potency, with certain powers scaling with stats, or damage calculation changes.

    I wish there were a simple fix to this. But it seems like it is layered in inherited coding, and changing it for PvP will affect the PvE component. Unless they had two codes, one applying specifically for PvP.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • etelgrinetelgrin Posts: 1,521Member Arc User

    Every class has something that will one hit wonder you every 10 seconds or so...

    SW?

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  • dolreydolrey Posts: 504Member Arc User
    I agree that SoD is broken now. Everyone agree. Except the devs. So let's think why it happened and why these overpowered mechanics were introduced into the game.

    I see some possible reasons:

    1) Developers don't pay attention to PvP balance almost at all. It is logical that to make your game better from the point of view of players you have to add what community is asking for. So, if community is asking for class balance and developers don't pay attention to it then they just don't want to do this and they lie to us on their streams that they work on it.

    2) Otherwise I suppose they don't test new content (exactly how it works in PvP). What is very big mistake too.

    3) If first 2 points are false and developers work on PvP balance and test new content in PvP then people who take decisions about what is balanced are incompetent and don't understand enything in this game. Because these broken things are evident for every relatively experienced player.

    Tons of broken things becomes added into the game with every new module. And I can't know why exactly it happens. But it is evident that cryptics should change something in their working process or in some day servers will become empty.

  • dolreydolrey Posts: 504Member Arc User
    edited March 19
    Also I can suppose that SoD twice gain profit from damage buffs.

    For example:
    1) Usual TR's skill has X damage.
    2) But thank to some buffs it dealt for example 1.5*X damage.
    3) SoD calculate it's damage from 1.5*X and is going to deal 0.75*X damage (what is 50% from 1.5*X).
    4) But damage buffs once again increase SoD's damage and it deal 1.5*0.75*X damage instad of 0.75*X.

    I didn't tested this but mabe it can be true.

  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 906Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 24


    OK. 330k HP SoD proc today. This is getting ridiculous. This was on multiple deaths due to SoD, hitting over 200k each one.

    We still won the match, but that TR killed 24-0.

    @rgutscheradev, this is beyond ridiculous now. If you want SoD to stop double dipping debuffs, then reduce its effect in PvP.

    @nitocris83, what was the ETA on getting SoD looked in to as per your PvP with the community event?
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • marnivalmarnival Posts: 1,347Member Arc User
    vordayn said:



    OK. 330k HP SoD proc today. This is getting ridiculous. This was on multiple deaths due to SoD, hitting over 200k each one.

    We still won the match, but that TR killed 24-0

    @rgutscheradev, this is beyond ridiculous now. If you want SoD to stop double dipping debuffs, then reduce its effect in PvP.

    @nitocris83, what was the ETA on getting SoD looked in to as per your PvP with the community event?

    There is no fix devs do not care any more.
    They did have a go when they fixed a couple of things and cut piercing damage so it respected tenacity which in reality killed Hr in pvp and made Tr to the gods they are today.

    Nothing in the history of pvp comes even close the the godness of todays Tr in fact almost all of the good ones simple quit because it was no fun going in getting 30+kills 0 death over and over and over again.

    This has been the case for over a year and with powercreep getting 25+recovery making back to back itc 4 dailies easy per 1 min and spamming encounters endlessly there is no need for anything but power/recovery for pvp Trs. When you see any of the really good ones enter on occation they have very little deflect even as they no longer need it as they can spam smoke itc at lesure.

    Nothing but another Tr can challange a pvp built Tr these days and if devs do not know they can not read or are plainly blind which hardly is the case in other word they do not care about pvp and we just have to live with that fact sad as it may be...
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 2,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I see oppressive darkness in the mix.... dang strike flurry lashing... will hit high damage
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  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 906Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    marnival said:


    There is no fix devs do not care any more.
    They did have a go when they fixed a couple of things and cut piercing damage so it respected tenacity which in reality killed Hr in pvp and made Tr to the gods they are today.

    Nothing in the history of pvp comes even close the the godness of todays Tr in fact almost all of the good ones simple quit because it was no fun going in getting 30+kills 0 death over and over and over again.

    This has been the case for over a year and with powercreep getting 25+recovery making back to back itc 4 dailies easy per 1 min and spamming encounters endlessly there is no need for anything but power/recovery for pvp Trs. When you see any of the really good ones enter on occation they have very little deflect even as they no longer need it as they can spam smoke itc at lesure.

    Nothing but another Tr can challange a pvp built Tr these days and if devs do not know they can not read or are plainly blind which hardly is the case in other word they do not care about pvp and we just have to live with that fact sad as it may be...

    You are right Marnival, although I tried getting back into PvP this mod, I think I'm going to have to hang it on a peg until they make some changes. I'm not holding out in the near future though.

    Sad days indeed. In this game PvP had so much potential ...
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
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