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Can we please fix Aura of Courage before Mod 13?

chemjeffchemjeff Posts: 351Member Arc User
edited February 6 in Bug Reports (PC)
Dear @asterdahl and other devs,

Can we please have a fix to the OP's Aura of Courage? The tooltip states:

"You and allies within 30' of you deal 1% of your Maximum Hit Points as bonus Radiant Damage."

It is clearly supposed to refer to the OP's hit points for the source of the damage, but instead, AoC actually uses the attacker's hit points as the source of the damage. Moreover it is not an insignificant amount of damage; the AoC effect ticks every 3 seconds, and its damage can be buffed by DC's damage-boosting abilities. So we already have DPS players stacking HP just for the sake of boosting their AoC damage. You have GWFs stacking HP instead of Defense, even though GWFs have a feat that give them more Power based on how much Defense they have (Steely Defense)! They are deliberately forsaking power just to have more AoC damage. That is how good AoC is.

And, in Mod 13, there is going to be a new Legendary lockbox mount, War Triceratops, that will grant 16,000 HP as its mount equip power. That is fully half of the Stronghold Rank 10 HP boon (32,000 HP). So you are going to have DPS players running around with 48,000 HP just from the mount and the SH boon even before accounting for all the gear and enchants. You will see some DPS players with as much HP as many Paladins have now.

So if nothing changes, this is what I predict will happen:
  • Players will rush to buy the War Triceratops in Mod 13.
  • These players will abuse the heck out of Aura of Courage, and trivialize the new Trial, Cradle of the Death God. (Much like the broken Anointed Army trivialized the Assault on Svardborg trial in Mod 10b.) All the work that you put into the mechanics of this trial will be for naught.
  • Then, once the complaints get loud enough that the content is a joke, you will fix Aura of Courage, and lots of players will rightly complain that they wasted all that money on the War Triceratops (and their other HP-boosting abilities) for nothing.
It will be just like the Lostmauth's Vengeance outcry all over again, where you mistakenly allowed this bug to persist for far longer than it should have, and people were rightly upset when the bug was finally fixed but only after players had devoted so much effort building their characters around this interaction.

So please let's save everyone some heartache and fix Aura of Courage before Mod 13 drops, and don't let history repeat itself again.
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Comments

  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 3,435Member Arc User
    Basing it off of the OP's HP would be a buff, not a nerf and contribute more to the trivialization of content than what you describe. DPS would gain extra damage from the higher HP pool of the OP and switch to bIack ice in Def slots to take better advantage of Assassin's Covenant.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • etelgrinetelgrin Posts: 1,535Member Arc User
    edited February 6
    I hope they don't read it, nerf aura of courage before mod 13...

    Although how I see it, even tho I play Pala and not pala too, is you are making big issue, out of something that is ok. There are way more important fixes to come than this in my opinion, like shadow of demise fix for instance.

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  • chemjeffchemjeff Posts: 351Member Arc User
    Just do a Youtube search for "Fastest TONG In The World". You will see what I mean.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 3,742Member Arc User
    AoC is broken the same way Lolset was.
    When a class deals near 30% oft it's damage from a passive aura it disbalances the game.
    Some classes proc AoC far better than other and some classes can buff that proc by selfbuffs far better.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 3,742Member Arc User
    edited February 6
    This small team of devs tries to handle balance and broken stacking buffs, wich dominate this game since several mods now, same as they dominate PVP.
    I think AoC is definitely part of the powercreep and by that part of disbalance as another open source of uncapped buffs.
    A GF is no longer a tank these days due to the better buffs a the Pally can spend beside his far better tanking tools.
    If my GF could be on par with those buffs , I would not be forced to run a dps setup.
    We allready witnessed similar problems when lolset was BIS and it was adressed because it disbalanced the hole class-system.
    I think @chemjeff is indeed correct in his observations, my ACT logs don´t lie.
    It´s not only a symptom, same as ITF was no symtom before fix/nerf.
  • benyrbenyr Posts: 72Member Arc User
    I get what your saying, as a gf tank you probably are the one class that is disadvantaged badly by aoc. By "sympton" i guess i was trying to say that there is a cause and effect to every change, and theyre often unexpected.
    So currently gwf are considered the meta dps class, if they lost aoc theyd replace by stacking defence as mentioned above to mitigate most of the power loss. However not all dps classes have this kind of option so youd inadvertantly widen the gap in the dps classes by trying to close it in the tank classes.
    Maybe a better option would be to boost the gf class, their big issue is having to choose between tanking or dps, maybe it could be tweaked so they could do both simultaniously. But then i guesd the gfs would be unbeatable in pvp. Guess this balancing lark isnt thst easy
  • chemjeffchemjeff Posts: 351Member Arc User
    dupeks said:

    "You and allies within 30' of you pay 15% of your Stock Market Gains as bonus Taxes."

    The natural interpretation is that each person pays taxes on their own gains. The grammar is the same, but the the interpretation different.

    Why? Because the phrasing is ambiguous due to the plurality of "Points" and "Gains", and also the ambiguous plurality of "your".

    So the tooltip is ugly.

    Yes it is somewhat ambiguous when viewed in isolation. But IMO it must be properly interpreted in context. In your example, if "you" are the only stock market trader among your group of "allies", then it makes no sense to require "allies" pay taxes that they cannot owe. In the context of the present discussion, the OP is the only class in the game that has HP-based mechanics as a core design philosophy. A few classes here and there have a few HP-based feats and powers, but only with the OP is it a central idea. So in this context, it stands to reason that the tooltip ought to be interpreted as based upon the OP's HP pool, not everyone's, simply by how the entire class is designed.

    Nevertheless, even if I am wrong and you are right on how the tooltip ought to be interpreted, the fact of the matter is, plenty of players are designing their characters around this mechanic. It is shaping up to be just like Lostmauth's Vengeance all over again, and with the introduction of the War Triceratops, we are going to have plenty of people spending lots of money on it just to take advantage of Aura of Courage, and then getting pissed when the devs finally do decide to fix/nerf Aura of Courage. That is why they should fix/nerf it NOW, before it gets even more out of hand.

    The longer they wait, the more painful the fix/nerf will be when it finally arrives.

    One possible fix is to simply have the OP alone deal the damage. But then it's not really an aura, as @pitshade points out.
    One possible fix is to keep the same mechanic but reduce the percentage. Instead of 1% of max HP, make it 0.1%. Then the damage dealt would be a more reasonable 3%ish, not 30+%.
    One possible fix is to make the damage un-buffable by DCs or others.
    One possible fix is to have only the damage dealt by the allies be a reduced percentage.

    There are plenty of possible fixes, but it should be done sooner rather than later.
    dupeks said:


    Also some of your claims about AoC's functioning are suspect (ticks every 3 seconds?).

    This is what I have read, I apologize if it is wrong. It must tick rather frequently, if the claims of 30+% of damage from this one class feature are to be believed.

  • dupeksdupeks Posts: 1,709Member Arc User
    edited February 7
    Open question: what portion of damage would be acceptable for a supporting class to provide to a main damage dealer?

    I ask this because it's a central question to deciding how AoC should be changed.

    I also wanted to point out one other important thing. Damage buffs and debuffs impact damage, but are not a separate hit that appears in ACT. Think of it this way: AoC doing 30% of someone's damage means it's a ~43% damage increase to their damage. But it appears as a separate hit in ACT, which means it's much more visible than buffs/debuffs.

    I realize you could say that 43% party damage buff is too big, but it's not dramatically out of line compared to the utility that other support classes can offer (or GF for instance). Moreover, if you change the way that buffs work, then AoC would also fall back into line.

    I'm not a fan of adjusting individual mechanics to compensate for systematic problems.

    Finally, it's different than lolset because lolset was a gear investment and this is a class feature. And I'm not really against class synergies on principle alone (building based on who you expect to run with) but that's just me.
  • etelgrinetelgrin Posts: 1,535Member Arc User
    edited February 7
    dupeks said:

    Open question: what portion of damage would be acceptable for a supporting class to provide to a main damage dealer?

    I ask this because it's a central question to deciding how AoC should be changed.

    I also wanted to point out one other important thing. Damage buffs and debuffs impact damage, but are not a separate hit that appears in ACT. Think of it this way: AoC doing 30% of someone's damage means it's a ~43% damage increase to their damage. But it appears as a separate hit in ACT, which means it's much more visible than buffs/debuffs.

    I realize you could say that 43% party damage buff is too big, but it's not dramatically out of line compared to the utility that other support classes can offer (or GF for instance). Moreover, if you change the way that buffs work, then AoC would also fall back into line.

    I'm not a fan of adjusting individual mechanics to compensate for systematic problems.

    Finally, it's different than lolset because lolset was a gear investment and this is a class feature. And I'm not really against class synergies on principle alone (building based on who you expect to run with) but that's just me.

    Going further with this logic, AoC, Aura of Gifts, some rnd encounter power CD reduction and Bane (healadin/prot one) are the only supportive things the OP brings to the party. To judge if AoC is OP or not OP we would have to put it in comparison, in endgame groups we very often see two DCs who got so many buffs, debuffs, including features and powers that they have to be mostly taken two of them into endgame groups because of how much they contribute. I do not think AoC or other Oatmeal Pala stuff are OP when you compare it to what DC brings. Also remember that AoC only gets stronger as much as all others stuff because of the buffs an debuffs, mostly DC ones in a 5 man group.

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  • strathkinstrathkin Posts: 1,089Member Arc User
    The only thing I ever certain about is never TRUST anything the TOOLTIPS say cause they always changing things behind the scenes. The description clearly reads "You and allies within 30' of you deal 1% of your maximum HP (Hit Points) as bonus Radiant Damage. Now for a pally with 200,000 HP 1% is in fact but 2000 bonus but if there are 5 people in your party 10,000 extra damage certainly can add up.

    But if it's actually the HP of the attacking enemy I would think it would be labelled wrong but some bosses in dungeon's can have 2 million or more HP - so if that's in deed the case I'd have to say that sounds more like a NERF.

    I just honestly wish they'd ONCE & FOR ALL keep tooltips accurately reflecting the way the powers actually operate like I don't even care anymore what they do! Just keep the TOOLTIPS accurate in how powers or feats work is that too much to ask?
  • dupeksdupeks Posts: 1,709Member Arc User
    edited February 7
    strathkin said:

    The only thing I ever certain about is never TRUST anything the TOOLTIPS say cause they always changing things behind the scenes. The description clearly reads "You and allies within 30' of you deal 1% of your maximum HP (Hit Points) as bonus Radiant Damage. Now for a pally with 200,000 HP 1% is in fact but 2000 bonus but if there are 5 people in your party 10,000 extra damage certainly can add up.

    But if it's actually the HP of the attacking enemy I would think it would be labelled wrong but some bosses in dungeon's can have 2 million or more HP - so if that's in deed the case I'd have to say that sounds more like a NERF.

    I just honestly wish they'd ONCE & FOR ALL keep tooltips accurately reflecting the way the powers actually operate like I don't even care anymore what they do! Just keep the TOOLTIPS accurate in how powers or feats work is that too much to ask?

    It's based on allies HP, not enemy HP.

    Here's what we've pieced together about how it works
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1231530/reference-aura-of-courage/p1

    Also, I don't think the devs change stuff behind the scenes all the time. When it does change, it's often unintentionally broken by something else they were doing. Sure mechanics get updated now and again, but AoC for instance has remained fundamentally unchanged for a long time
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 3,742Member Arc User
    edited February 7
    chemjeff said:

    dupeks said:

    "You and allies within 30' of you pay 15% of your Stock Market Gains as bonus Taxes."

    The natural interpretation is that each person pays taxes on their own gains. The grammar is the same, but the the interpretation different.

    Why? Because the phrasing is ambiguous due to the plurality of "Points" and "Gains", and also the ambiguous plurality of "your".

    So the tooltip is ugly.

    Nevertheless, even if I am wrong and you are right on how the tooltip ought to be interpreted, the fact of the matter is, plenty of players are designing their characters around this mechanic. It is shaping up to be just like Lostmauth's Vengeance all over again, and with the introduction of the War Triceratops, we are going to have plenty of people spending lots of money on it just to take advantage of Aura of Courage, and then getting pissed when the devs finally do decide to fix/nerf Aura of Courage. That is why they should fix/nerf it NOW, before it gets even more out of hand.

    The longer they wait, the more painful the fix/nerf will be when it finally arrives.
    dupeks said:


    Also some of your claims about AoC's functioning are suspect (ticks every 3 seconds?).

    This is what I have read, I apologize if it is wrong. It must tick rather frequently, if the claims of 30+% of damage from this one class feature are to be believed.

    This is one of the major reason why they will handle it some day, the longer they wait the deeper the fall.
    AoC is out of order in buffer groups. Some classes with huge selfbuffs/debuffs like GWF (>70%) and TR´s that know how to buff their power effectively outnumber others by far using this aura, not to talk of the "proc machine" called CW.
    A passiva aura dealing 30% for one class and 6% for the other due to better procrate and better selfbuffs/debuffs, that´s how Aoc works right now.
    A GWF will role back to azure enchants due to feats, most of them run azures anyway atm. Btw. another "mistake" (same category, a bit smaller impact) like 10000's more in this game.

    A Paladin spends a huge powerbuff allready, 25% of his power, wich get´s more the more HP he stacks (10% of his HP ). At 250k HP you get 25k power to share on top. At 50k basepower you buff for 55k power, companionrebuff includet. 75k x 0.25 x 2.95.
    That´s a 50% dps increase providing a 70k selfbuffed power from that striker.

    Aura of Wisdom and Flash of Light are powerfull buffs. If you combine it with AC´s Hastening Light on top, a striker can literally spam his 20 mio IBS, Griffons wrath etc., that´s not a meaningless buff, no, that´s a mayor source of damage for that striker.

    Bane is a 30% debuff, if you run Bananadin it´s 30%buff+30% debuff , if that paladin invested in recovery, the reason why some endgamegroups run that conqueror tank and that bananadin obviously.

    Including his mitigation tools and the tanking abilities (temp HP) etc. a tankadin will be on top, far above that GF in terms of tanking same as buffing/debuffing, even if you completely erase Aura of courage.
    GF is that class with the highest weapondamage and the ability to outnumber most classes in terms of dps on single targets. The reason why it is like that are buffs and a "butthurting cascade of stacking selfbuffs" in bossfights. Only very few reach that goal, mabye this will also get adressed some day.
    I want that GF to be a good alternative in terms of tanking, the mayor role of that class btw.. We are million miles away from that goal, due to overbuffed Paladin.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • benyrbenyr Posts: 72Member Arc User
    Im now not sure whether youre talking about aoc which increases everyones damage not power and doesnt increase off companions as Hp's cant be shared, or auras gift which is a power share?
    Either way nerfing the source is a sledge hammer to crack a nut, everyone should benefit from aoc equally as a % damage increase based on their own hp. If some classes are able to buff the damage they gain from this (id not heard of this so no idea if this is right or not) then its the interection those classes have with aoc that needs nerfing.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 3,742Member Arc User
    edited February 7
    OK, i try it the other way.

    Why do you read all day long this in the chat:" Lfm tong , need OP, 2x DC."

    Why don't we see GF's tanking content?

    Why are there so many GF's taking the part as a buff/DPS instead of a tank... and by that do better than most strikerclasses?

    Why do some classes take not part.

    Why is this a boring meta/concept oft a game?

    Figure out the answer :)
  • etelgrinetelgrin Posts: 1,535Member Arc User

    OK, i try it the other way.



    Why do you read all day long this in the chat:" Lfm tong , need OP, 2x DC."



    Why don't we see GF's tanking content?



    Why are there so many GF's taking the part as a buff/DPS instead of a tank... and by that do better than most strikerclasses?



    Why do some classes take not part.



    Why is this a boring meta/concept oft a game?



    Figure out the answer :)

    Sorry but let me put it this way, there are parties in LFG, where you still see 3 dps, there are still looking for groups tanks/buffers GFs but people just want DPS GF who buffs mostly the same as tanking one so the tanking role goes to Paladin. In LFG theres still many people trying to run it and fail even when they take the comp you mention thats a supposed/optimal comp for fast run and they still fail. There are also comps without DCs at all that also succeed at completing tong in about 20-25 mins time which is run time expected when running with 2 DCs but because majority fails people are afraid of taking uncertain classes/builds, so they call what everybody else is. Very often this is not even fault of, DC, tank, or other buffer you brought but that dps gwf guy who you had brought along and sadly does enough DPS for Orcus but the one in Castle Never not in Tong.

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  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,067Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 7
    @schietindebux

    2,221-2,714 Damage great weapon fighter
    1,851-2,262 Damage guardian fighter




  • chemjeffchemjeff Posts: 351Member Arc User
    Just wanted to comment on this one part:
    dupeks said:

    Finally, it's different than lolset because lolset was a gear investment and this is a class feature. And I'm not really against class synergies on principle alone (building based on who you expect to run with) but that's just me.

    It is like Lostmauth's Vengenance in the sense that players are investing heavily in HP in order to take advantage of Aura of Courage.
  • draugkirdraugkir Posts: 14Member Arc User
    Aura of Courage dmg buff should be based on the Ops hps. Not on whoever gets the aura hps.

    Seems simple to fix.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Posts: 351Member Arc User
    dupeks said:

    chemjeff said:

    Just wanted to comment on this one part:

    dupeks said:

    Finally, it's different than lolset because lolset was a gear investment and this is a class feature. And I'm not really against class synergies on principle alone (building based on who you expect to run with) but that's just me.

    It is like Lostmauth's Vengenance in the sense that players are investing heavily in HP in order to take advantage of Aura of Courage.
    That's their choice to do so, and there is a dramatic difference again between lolset and AoC.

    For AoC, you get some benefit without any investment at all, and realistically all the HP investment in the world won't increase your HP that much. More specifically, on a DPS class the biggest investment would be Radiants in defense slots (maybe insignia, but those are cheap, SH boon is free). At R14, that's 4-6 enchantments worth 16-24k HP. With insignia and some bonuses let's be generous and say 40k HP. That's still just a small incremental improvement to your HP. Most of your HP is free.

    So "investing heavily in HP" gets you at most a moderate boost to your damage compared to no investment. Anyone trying to squeeze a few more % of damage out of a class synergy has a whole gradient of investment to play with.

    With lolset, there was no middleground option. You had to invest in order to be a viable damage dealer. The differential was much wider between investment and no investment.

    Again, I'm not against the devs in general examining support mechanics (for example multiplicative uncapped buffs) or other solutions (diminishing returns on power), but I'm strongly against cherry-picking single classes or particularly visible mechanics as the scapegoats for a larger problem. And I'm even more against using overblown arguments as a justification.
    First, the SH HP boon is most certainly not "free". Especially for PVE guilds, since it requires a lot of PVP currency.

    Second, I don't really want to belittle the investments other people made in the "correct" setup, like Azures or Silveries or Black Ice enchants for defense, who now see that investment wasted or diminished because of the broken Aura of Courage.

    Third, and I think I made this clear at the outset, it is going to become a lot MORE like the Lostmauth Set fiasco once the War Triceratops comes out. All of the people currently abusing Aura of Courage are going to invest in that, and then when AoC is finally nerfed, they will gripe and complain as their investment turns to zero.

    And I think we would all like some global resolution to all of the balance problems in the game, but this particular one requires a bit of urgency because Mod 13 is coming out soon. And let's just be real honest here, the devs have never approached balance in this game from some overarching comprehensive point of view. Fixing things piecemeal is what they have always done. Let's fix this one, I provided some reasonable ways that it could be fixed, I'm sure the devs have other ideas in mind too, and move on to more global adjustments at a later time.
  • dupeksdupeks Posts: 1,709Member Arc User
    chemjeff said:

    Second, I don't really want to belittle the investments other people made in the "correct" setup, like Azures or Silveries or Black Ice enchants for defense, who now see that investment wasted or diminished because of the broken Aura of Courage.

    Third, and I think I made this clear at the outset, it is going to become a lot MORE like the Lostmauth Set fiasco once the War Triceratops comes out. All of the people currently abusing Aura of Courage are going to invest in that, and then when AoC is finally nerfed, they will gripe and complain as their investment turns to zero.

    These statements are misinformed and alarmist.

    Literally nothing has changed about AoC to make the investment wasted or diminished. If people are all of a sudden aware of a class synergy that they didn't realize was there before that's not the same as taking away someone's investment.

    Moreover, by switching to HP you are giving up defensive stats that convert to base power with Assassin's covenant. And Base power matters a ton for any kind of self power-buff (including Protector's Camaraderie). So switching to HP you are not just gaining AoC damage, you're losing base power.

    If DPS classes start grabbing the triceratops mount for extra HP then they are fools getting on a hype train that they do not understand. At the very least, they should realize that 8k or even 16k HP would be worth a minor damage increase and only for certain classes.
    chemjeff said:

    And I think we would all like some global resolution to all of the balance problems in the game, but this particular one requires a bit of urgency because Mod 13 is coming out soon. And let's just be real honest here, the devs have never approached balance in this game from some overarching comprehensive point of view. Fixing things piecemeal is what they have always done. Let's fix this one, I provided some reasonable ways that it could be fixed, I'm sure the devs have other ideas in mind too, and move on to more global adjustments at a later time.

    Reworking buffs or returns on power would dramatically retune AoC as well as other support mechanics.

    Nerfing one mechanic for one class will not solve the runaway end-game imbalances in this game. Not by a long shot. And it would likely not even dislodge OP as a staple tank in "pug groups".

    But it would make soloing as a prot-OP much harder, and it would reduce class synergy. Oh and a bunch of OPs that did invest in HP would see a big chunk of their investment "wasted or diminished" because of senseless nerf requests.

    They reworked debuffs to be diminishing. They could do the same for buffs. That doesn't have to be piecemeal.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Posts: 351Member Arc User
    dupeks said:


    Literally nothing has changed about AoC to make the investment wasted or diminished. If people are all of a sudden aware of a class synergy that they didn't realize was there before that's not the same as taking away someone's investment.

    The presence of a broken AoC overvalues HP and undervalues other choices relative to the case with a properly functioning AoC.
    dupeks said:


    Moreover, by switching to HP you are giving up defensive stats that convert to base power with Assassin's covenant. And Base power matters a ton for any kind of self power-buff (including Protector's Camaraderie). So switching to HP you are not just gaining AoC damage, you're losing base power.

    But AoC is also affected by buffs. So it is not immediately obvious that trading base power for HP is a bad trade.

    Here is a simple example. Suppose a GWF with 30,000 Power, 10,000 Defense, and 150,000 HP is deciding whether to add a Rank 12 Azure (700 Defense) or Rank 12 Radiant (3,000 HP) to a defense slot. This GWF has Assassin's Covenant, Protector's Camaraderie, and Steely Defense feat.

    Before adding any enchant (the baseline case), we have:
    Assassin's Covenant lowers Defense down to 9,000, and increases Power to 31,000.
    Steely Defense increases Power by 20% of Defense, so new Power is 31,000 + 0.2*9,000 = 32,800.
    Protector's Camaraderie (4 stacks) increases Power by 12%, so new Power is 1.12*32,800 = 36,736.
    The damage multiplier from Power in this case is (1+36,736/39,908.4) = 1.9205.
    Suppose this GWF hits for a base damage of 1,000.
    Aura of Courage would also hit for base damage of 0.01*150,000 = 1,500.
    BOTH are affected by power, so the total damage is 2,500 * 1.9205 = 4,801.27.

    Now suppose the Radiant enchantment is used. There is no change to the Power, so the damage multiplier remains the same at 1.9205. The Aura of Courage base damage would increase to 0.01*153,000 = 1,530.
    So the total damage is now 2,530 * 1.9205 = 4858.89.

    Now suppose the Azure enchantment is used. Using the above method of calculation, the new Power is 36,955.52, and so the new Power damage multiplier is 1.9260. The Aura of Courage base damage is the same as in the baseline case, of 1,500.
    So the total damage is now 2,500 * 1.9260 = 4,815.02.

    So the Radiant enchantment wins.

    Azure doesn't win out over Radiant unless the base damage (not taking Power into account) of the GWF's hit is greater than about 8,500 or so.
    dupeks said:


    If DPS classes start grabbing the triceratops mount for extra HP then they are fools getting on a hype train that they do not understand. At the very least, they should realize that 8k or even 16k HP would be worth a minor damage increase and only for certain classes.

    Take the same GWF above, same conditions, and suppose he is deciding whether to choose between a 4,000 Power mount, or a 16,000 HP mount.

    Without a mount: Damage = 4,801.27
    With 4,000 Power mount: Damage = 5,081.91
    With 16,000 HP mount: Damage = 5,108.55

    So the HP mount wins.

    You are right that the difference between the Power mount and the HP mount is small. However, once Aura of Courage is nerfed, the HP mount will be worthless in terms of dealing damage, and everyone will wish they would have gotten the Power mount instead.
    dupeks said:

    Reworking buffs or returns on power would dramatically retune AoC as well as other support mechanics.

    Nerfing one mechanic for one class will not solve the runaway end-game imbalances in this game. Not by a long shot. And it would likely not even dislodge OP as a staple tank in "pug groups".

    But it would make soloing as a prot-OP much harder, and it would reduce class synergy. Oh and a bunch of OPs that did invest in HP would see a big chunk of their investment "wasted or diminished" because of senseless nerf requests.

    They reworked debuffs to be diminishing. They could do the same for buffs. That doesn't have to be piecemeal.

    No one has suggested nerfing Aura of Courage for the paladin himself. I believe that it should remain unchanged as to how it operates for the paladin. It is how it affects the other party members that is the problem.

    And if Aura of Courage isn't the problem, then why are DPS classes stacking HP just to take advantage of it? If AoC isn't the problem, then what, specifically, is?
  • chemjeffchemjeff Posts: 351Member Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    What the urgency with mod 13 that didn't exist before this? AoC is like that since it's inception. Mod5? Why specifically AoC and not other issues, like bloody positional CA being broken, or CA being additive to Crit Severity?
    Or several issues with debuffs being multiplicative/scale and get effectiveness over the 400% cap.
    Or buffs in it's entirity? Or stat scale? Or classes that don't scale?

    Mod 13 is introducing a 16,000 HP Legendary mount that will only exacerbate the AoC problem.
  • etelgrinetelgrin Posts: 1,535Member Arc User
    edited February 8
    chemjeff said:

    micky1p00 said:

    What the urgency with mod 13 that didn't exist before this? AoC is like that since it's inception. Mod5? Why specifically AoC and not other issues, like bloody positional CA being broken, or CA being additive to Crit Severity?
    Or several issues with debuffs being multiplicative/scale and get effectiveness over the 400% cap.
    Or buffs in it's entirity? Or stat scale? Or classes that don't scale?

    Mod 13 is introducing a 16,000 HP Legendary mount that will only exacerbate the AoC problem.
    Is the legendary Triceratops included in epic pack or something? If not then how many people will be using it? on how many builds is lege triceratops bonus more effective than picking +4k power, crit ,+x% damage from providence or +25% ap gain from snail? When its a legendary pack we are talking about small portion of people who either got money to earn it or saved to get it and even when they get it to use it like you said, its their build and it also hindrance them in a way that they HAVE to run with paladin in order to be effective because otherwise this is becoming a wasted investment. Also mind that this is about 10-15 milions of AD worth of investment, this is not something everybody can afford, and when they can afford they want their build works I dont see problem in it, these people would be spending 15 milions to get some higher proc of AoC Im fine with it.

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  • benyrbenyr Posts: 72Member Arc User
    "First, the SH HP boon is most certainly not "free". Especially for PVE guilds, since it requires a lot of PVP currency"

    The HP boon comes from wizards workshop which requires shards of power not conquerors shards. No PVP required just lots and lots of sh builders quests and bhe's. A grind but not challenging in anyway
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