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Some TR feedback and bug reports.
einsieg
Member Posts: 86 Arc User
I have done some light testing of the changes and found some things that were good, but I have also found problems created by the changes. My testing is not very scientific or anything. Most has been with Saboteur, as that is what I primarily play in PvE at the moment on live outside of boss encounters.
So, first, mechanical issues. Currently on live when you cast Smoke Bomb your stealth bar is immediately consumed, as is normal for most encounters. It has a delay before it deals damage, resulting in it hitting after you are out of stealth. This is well-known to be harmful to Executioners since they have to stealth after casting Smoke Bomb if they want to use it to apply Shadow of Demise.
On Mimic, it now instantly hits when cast. While Executioners will enjoy this, it has affected Saboteur rotations in a way I feel is disruptive. If you have One with the Shadows, stealth, and cast Smoke Bomb, your OwtS will be triggered and refill your stealth bar but Smoke Bomb will not consume stealth before this happens. This results in your stealth bar continuing to drain after OwtS triggers, which is only supposed to happen with damaging encounters that specifically don't remove you from stealth as an intended function. This is not the intended function of Smoke Bomb, and thus I consider this effect to be a bug. I have noticed this exact bug also happening on live with the use of Blitz.
Currently on live Path of the Blade also does not trigger OwtS at all, though I mostly remember this when I cast PotB from stealth expecting it to then trigger my capstone and it does not.
Also, Path of the Blade's visual animation and hits sounds are completely missing on Mimic.
On the note of Sabo bugs, I frequently find that I trigger my capstone and my stealth bar is not properly reset, and I get stuck at a sliver of stealth bar missing. This completely screws over rotations and I feel like I have no control over anything when this happens because my stealth bar suddenly starts to drain from being hit by mob.
Next, balance changes.
Shadowy Opportunity has been struck by the weapon enchantment proc limitation, meaning that it cannot proc more than once per enemy hit with Smoke Bomb or Path of the Blade. This I feel makes it effectively useless for PvE Sabo as its restriction of only doing damage from stealth means it only procs in limited windows. You drain a significant portion of your stealth bar by hitting enemies with at-wills and most encounters consume stealth entirely. The only time Shadowy Opportunity will be allowed to do a significant amount of damage is during Lurker's Assault. It is directly competing with a 25% universal damage increase in the same tier and giving up Back Alley Tactics from the Scoundrel path is not negotiable for me. PvP Sabo may see more value from this feat than I do, but I can't speak on that front.
Oppressive Darkness isn't good. Its damage is low and it doesn't scale that great. It is doing more than live, but it is a small percentage increase in DPS. From self-buffing it may do a few thousand extra damage each proc. It doesn't make sense to drop Invisible Infiltrator because it gives much more damage and also refills your stealth bar. Losing Infiltrator's Action actually makes Oppressive Darkness worse because you lose the best source of combat advantage in your arsenal. The only time I would use OD is in a party that always provides combat advantage from some source, like marking.
Whisperknife has a slightly better outlook with OD. It doesn't really have two class features that are so powerful and mandatory as the MI ones, but the issues look kind of similar to me in the end. Forgive me if I come off a bit uninformed, but I've never played WK until testing today so I have to just go off what I already understand in general.
Advantageous Position is sort of similar to Infiltrator's Action, but attached to leaving stealth instead of daily use. It lacks the damage buff of the Infiltrator's Action offhand bonus, so it is significantly weaker overall. OD runs into the same problem of making itself weaker if it replaces this power.
The other things OD competes with on Whisperknife are Dagger Threat and Razor Action. One could argue it's better than Dagger Threat, as more damage on ranged dagger powers is kind of too restrictive and most of the ranged TR powers don't do a lot of damage anyway. Maybe if the fixed and buffed Impact Shot becomes popular, who knows. I mean, I think that's a dagger attack. I don't even know as I've never put points into it.
Razor Action, however, may have become a mandatory Whisperknife class feature. My TR's gear isn't great or anything, but from what I've seen this can potentially scale into some really impressive damage. It's almost like having a second Whirlwind of Blades, and the paragon feat for a DoT of 50% more damage could be very good. The upfront direct damage is respectable.
Tenacious Concealment has been more or less removed from the game. It still ends up negating all stealth loss from damage with the offhand bonus, but now you don't regenerate stealth faster while in combat. I'm certain this is a nerf directed at PvP rogues, since it never sees use in PvE.
I don't have anything else substantial to say at the moment.
So, first, mechanical issues. Currently on live when you cast Smoke Bomb your stealth bar is immediately consumed, as is normal for most encounters. It has a delay before it deals damage, resulting in it hitting after you are out of stealth. This is well-known to be harmful to Executioners since they have to stealth after casting Smoke Bomb if they want to use it to apply Shadow of Demise.
On Mimic, it now instantly hits when cast. While Executioners will enjoy this, it has affected Saboteur rotations in a way I feel is disruptive. If you have One with the Shadows, stealth, and cast Smoke Bomb, your OwtS will be triggered and refill your stealth bar but Smoke Bomb will not consume stealth before this happens. This results in your stealth bar continuing to drain after OwtS triggers, which is only supposed to happen with damaging encounters that specifically don't remove you from stealth as an intended function. This is not the intended function of Smoke Bomb, and thus I consider this effect to be a bug. I have noticed this exact bug also happening on live with the use of Blitz.
Currently on live Path of the Blade also does not trigger OwtS at all, though I mostly remember this when I cast PotB from stealth expecting it to then trigger my capstone and it does not.
Also, Path of the Blade's visual animation and hits sounds are completely missing on Mimic.
On the note of Sabo bugs, I frequently find that I trigger my capstone and my stealth bar is not properly reset, and I get stuck at a sliver of stealth bar missing. This completely screws over rotations and I feel like I have no control over anything when this happens because my stealth bar suddenly starts to drain from being hit by mob.
Next, balance changes.
Shadowy Opportunity has been struck by the weapon enchantment proc limitation, meaning that it cannot proc more than once per enemy hit with Smoke Bomb or Path of the Blade. This I feel makes it effectively useless for PvE Sabo as its restriction of only doing damage from stealth means it only procs in limited windows. You drain a significant portion of your stealth bar by hitting enemies with at-wills and most encounters consume stealth entirely. The only time Shadowy Opportunity will be allowed to do a significant amount of damage is during Lurker's Assault. It is directly competing with a 25% universal damage increase in the same tier and giving up Back Alley Tactics from the Scoundrel path is not negotiable for me. PvP Sabo may see more value from this feat than I do, but I can't speak on that front.
Oppressive Darkness isn't good. Its damage is low and it doesn't scale that great. It is doing more than live, but it is a small percentage increase in DPS. From self-buffing it may do a few thousand extra damage each proc. It doesn't make sense to drop Invisible Infiltrator because it gives much more damage and also refills your stealth bar. Losing Infiltrator's Action actually makes Oppressive Darkness worse because you lose the best source of combat advantage in your arsenal. The only time I would use OD is in a party that always provides combat advantage from some source, like marking.
Whisperknife has a slightly better outlook with OD. It doesn't really have two class features that are so powerful and mandatory as the MI ones, but the issues look kind of similar to me in the end. Forgive me if I come off a bit uninformed, but I've never played WK until testing today so I have to just go off what I already understand in general.
Advantageous Position is sort of similar to Infiltrator's Action, but attached to leaving stealth instead of daily use. It lacks the damage buff of the Infiltrator's Action offhand bonus, so it is significantly weaker overall. OD runs into the same problem of making itself weaker if it replaces this power.
The other things OD competes with on Whisperknife are Dagger Threat and Razor Action. One could argue it's better than Dagger Threat, as more damage on ranged dagger powers is kind of too restrictive and most of the ranged TR powers don't do a lot of damage anyway. Maybe if the fixed and buffed Impact Shot becomes popular, who knows. I mean, I think that's a dagger attack. I don't even know as I've never put points into it.
Razor Action, however, may have become a mandatory Whisperknife class feature. My TR's gear isn't great or anything, but from what I've seen this can potentially scale into some really impressive damage. It's almost like having a second Whirlwind of Blades, and the paragon feat for a DoT of 50% more damage could be very good. The upfront direct damage is respectable.
Tenacious Concealment has been more or less removed from the game. It still ends up negating all stealth loss from damage with the offhand bonus, but now you don't regenerate stealth faster while in combat. I'm certain this is a nerf directed at PvP rogues, since it never sees use in PvE.
I don't have anything else substantial to say at the moment.
Post edited by einsieg on
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